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Other Weather Nerf
- Thread starter superstar
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So far the best rain team I can come up with is: Damp Rock Politoed, LO Ludicolo, LO-Roost Kyurem-B, SD RS Kabutops, Ferrothorn, and Thundurus-I to spread paralysis or Galvantula for Sticky Web. I honestly prefer Prankster T-Wave, as I hits Levitaters and flyers setting the stage for Kyurem-B to sweep.
Honestly- XY is slow enough that Drizzle/Drought/SandStream/SnowWarning aren't mandatory. Most mons with Weather related abilities can setup whatever type of weather they want without fear of getting buried by tempo loss.
I liked to run Rain team, but Ludicolo can't get Giga Drain in PS!
One thing that made me stop using it is Kabutops and Ludicolo having moveset error, and I want to test Tops against Talonflame
As for Sandstorm, its pretty ridiculous. Those 4 Turn pressure from Excadrill on-line is a difficult moments during a game, and Tyranitar is good as always
One thing that made me stop using it is Kabutops and Ludicolo having moveset error, and I want to test Tops against Talonflame
As for Sandstorm, its pretty ridiculous. Those 4 Turn pressure from Excadrill on-line is a difficult moments during a game, and Tyranitar is good as always
Dual Weather Core teams might have also taken a hit, but some Pokemon thrived in two weathers. Volcarona, for example, was superior in both Sun and Rain, with Sun boosting its Fire-Type moves Fiery Dance and Fire Blast, and Rain giving it 100% Accuracy Hurricane. Granted that Fire Blast and Hurricane took a slight power reduction, but they both remain solid moves. The length of weather is definitely going to be...irritating, even for Dual-Core Teams surrounding the support of Volcarona (call Rapid Spinners, Ninetales, Politoed)--yet Defog got a buff, so...yay? That's how I feel about Sun and Rain being nerfed.
As far as Sandstorm goes, I personally think Hippowdon and Tyranitar will survive, the latter receiving a Mega Evolution and the former still bulky and usable. Sandstorm's Nerf brings more teams to use both of the Sandstorm initiators on the same team, normally with Tyranitar using its Mega Evolution when things get out of hand. Sweeping time, sadly, will be reduced for those like Landorus and Excadrill, but one could say that they are still outstanding in other ways. Landorus has a Special Attacking Sheer Force set to take advantage of. Excadrill is blessed with Rapid Spin (not as much of an achievement thanks to Defog) and a decent typing for tanking hits, especially since Rain and Sun were both nerfed, two of its weaknesses can't be any more dangerous most of the time. Sandslash might have some problems, but...who used it? I mean, I guess it was used more after Landorus and Excadrill bit the dust in Ubers, but...not much.
Hail...this is a sad case. Abomasnow was once the sole Hail Inducer and Aurorus is the ONLY other one now. Even then, Aurorus has to sacrifice Refrigerate, normally the better ability of the two--EVEN THEN, Aurorus sucks. That typing is just...awful. It's like Aurorus is BEGGING to be RK'd. Hail Teams are hit badly, with Blizzard pretty much kissing its usage good-bye...thanks, GameFreak. Last Generation, we had Kyurem as the best user and...you killed it.
Weather Stall is done for and all weather must be offensive or none. In my mind, there was no fair way to balance this at all. In an overall standpoint, one could say that weatherless stall gained a boost, but...how many weatherless stall teams were there? When I battled, Sandstorm Stall was the most commonly seen stall I ran into, with Hail being every now and again. It seems odd for GameFreak to pull the kind of strings it has lately. This one was the biggest Metagame Changer.
How will weather hold up now? I say that it's been mortally wounded, but I say it's going to be like Inzektors back in YuGiOh. Many people will say that they're dead, but when you least expect it, they make a hardhitting comeback, whether it be by themselves or with outside support. Weather...in my eyes, will be much the same. We'll see it back at its original core every now and again, but the more popular trends will be Dual-Core and Massive Support for a Pokemon. It doesn't help that there were BP nerfs in Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, Blizzard, Thunder, and Hurricane, but...who wants some popcorn to watch the meta?
As far as Sandstorm goes, I personally think Hippowdon and Tyranitar will survive, the latter receiving a Mega Evolution and the former still bulky and usable. Sandstorm's Nerf brings more teams to use both of the Sandstorm initiators on the same team, normally with Tyranitar using its Mega Evolution when things get out of hand. Sweeping time, sadly, will be reduced for those like Landorus and Excadrill, but one could say that they are still outstanding in other ways. Landorus has a Special Attacking Sheer Force set to take advantage of. Excadrill is blessed with Rapid Spin (not as much of an achievement thanks to Defog) and a decent typing for tanking hits, especially since Rain and Sun were both nerfed, two of its weaknesses can't be any more dangerous most of the time. Sandslash might have some problems, but...who used it? I mean, I guess it was used more after Landorus and Excadrill bit the dust in Ubers, but...not much.
Hail...this is a sad case. Abomasnow was once the sole Hail Inducer and Aurorus is the ONLY other one now. Even then, Aurorus has to sacrifice Refrigerate, normally the better ability of the two--EVEN THEN, Aurorus sucks. That typing is just...awful. It's like Aurorus is BEGGING to be RK'd. Hail Teams are hit badly, with Blizzard pretty much kissing its usage good-bye...thanks, GameFreak. Last Generation, we had Kyurem as the best user and...you killed it.
Weather Stall is done for and all weather must be offensive or none. In my mind, there was no fair way to balance this at all. In an overall standpoint, one could say that weatherless stall gained a boost, but...how many weatherless stall teams were there? When I battled, Sandstorm Stall was the most commonly seen stall I ran into, with Hail being every now and again. It seems odd for GameFreak to pull the kind of strings it has lately. This one was the biggest Metagame Changer.
How will weather hold up now? I say that it's been mortally wounded, but I say it's going to be like Inzektors back in YuGiOh. Many people will say that they're dead, but when you least expect it, they make a hardhitting comeback, whether it be by themselves or with outside support. Weather...in my eyes, will be much the same. We'll see it back at its original core every now and again, but the more popular trends will be Dual-Core and Massive Support for a Pokemon. It doesn't help that there were BP nerfs in Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, Blizzard, Thunder, and Hurricane, but...who wants some popcorn to watch the meta?
I dont know if I am the only one who will have this opinion but I really dont see this as that large a nerf. Five turns is a long time as it is, and you can simply just switch the pokemon with said ability in and out to reset the weather counter. If your going to use one pokemons ability to set the rest of your team up at any rate it can be a hinderance as much as a benefit. I honestly find the 10 bp power nerf to thunder and blizzard a much bigger loss.
What is really sad is that hail, the weakest of all the weathers, was the most affected by this. It literally has no ability to stall now. Furthermore, hail team Pokemon often have 4MSS and cannot afford to run hail.
I for one have been weighing different options and it's starting to seem like for Rain anyway, a manual starter may be the better move. Thundurus-I@Damp Rock w/ Taunt, Rain Dance, Volt Switch/U-Turn, and HP Ice seems to be the best lead. Stops Galvantula from spreading Sticky Web, Set's up rain and switches out to w/e Swift Swimmer I happen to be abusing, so either Kabutops or Ludicolo/Kingdra. Toss in Bulky Kyurem-B and Forretress and that's the meat of the team. M-Lucario on clean-up duty.
If you're talking about Walrein, then yeah, hail is toast. If you're talking about stall teams that use hail as residual damage, I'd disagree. Hail disappears after a bit, yeah, but now hail has Mega-Abomasnow, who for once isn't dead weight with its buffed defenses (and offenses) and its useful moves. It wasn't like the good hail teams were spamming Ice types, either. Blizzard hardly saw any use in the first place, Ice types were horrible defensively. Hail basically didn't change besides the ease of keeping hail up (switching Abomasnow inevery five turns is better than trying to switch it into Chlorosaur or Keldeo in their respective weathers multiple times over a match) and the buffed Abomasnow.
I honestly doubt politoad a usage will drop considering it still has drizzle and an extreme amount of bulk will doing it's job be as easy as before? No, of course not. But politoad still had redeeming qualities and with wish passers/proper play can be alive and as annoying as before.
Ninetails and sun might drop because their main weather setter is weak to rocks and without being able to hold lefties while also maintaining sun for extensive periods of time she will just not be a favorable weather setter.
Pokemon that stall in the hail never did all that well barring StallRein, and switching in an Ice/Grass will never be easy.
Stallrein is kind of a joke, though. Its setup bait, has mediocre typing (Water is good, Ice is bad), has only okay bulk. Infinite Sub+Protect is cute, but needs Toxic Spikes support to actually do any damage. On top of that, its Taunt bait and weak to status.
Go find some of the top Hail Stall teams from Gen V, none of them pack Walrein. The only difference between them and any other stall team is that they use Abomasnow for Hail's residual damage.
Agreed about Abomasnow, though. Its typing requires that it gets built around, rather than other support Pokemon who, you know, just support. Still, the boosted defenses of its Mega Forme will make getting it in quite a bit easier.
Any thoughts on Assault Vest Abomasnow vs M-Abomasnow?
I would have to go mega. There is no way that Assault vest will cover Abomasnow's weaknesses. It also prevents it from using all of its non-attacking moves like Leech seed.
Hail stall is as good as dead. There is no way you will be able to keep switching in mega Abomasnow throughout the match non-stop. He will be whittled down quickly. With only five turns of hail damage, it really just isn't worth it.
Off the bat, I'm going to say Mega-Aboma. With Assault Vest, you lose out on options like Leech Seed, Protect, etc, as well as a weaker Giga Drain. Assault Vest Aboma might have better tanking abilities, but its typing doesn't really allow it to wall anything, per say, and I'd rather use it as a pivot with support options to support the real walls.
Wish and Rapid Spin support are commonly found on stall teams, so it isn't quite as bad as you'd make it out to be, especially if you can find time to throw out Leech Seeds and Giga Drains every so often.
Sure. I may just be being pessimistic, but not every plan works as well in practice as it does on paper. Your entire team would be relying on one Pokemon staying alive. I just don't think that it is the most sound strategy anymore.
Actually, the cool thing about Hail stall is that you don't actually need hail to stay up 24/7. Its more residual damage, and it protects your team from other weathers, but having hail up all the time is not the number one priority because you aren't really limited by it not being up. Even then, people did manage to do it last gen, where the losing the weather war was almost a death sentence.
So far, weather has hardly been "nerfed" as far as being used is concerned. People just switch out and back in the weather inducer, teach weather moves to others, and even bring in a second inducer (like the hippo to compliment tyranitar).
Super Mario Bro
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That demonstrates exactly how it has been nerfed. In the past, you were able to mindlessly run any weather starter along with the best abusers, and simply keep your inducer alive longer than the opponent's in order to win. Now, weather sweepers are vulnerable to stalling, as they do not have nearly as much time to get off a sweep anymore. Additionally, the inducers themselves need to time their switches more carefully, and will rarely be able to provide themselves as death fodder anymore. The fact that several other Pokemon on the weather team (Drizzle teams, to be more precise) will likely need to carry a weather inducing move is another drawback, as they did not have to do that in the previous gen.
This isn't to say that weather isn't viable anymore, but it is significantly worse than it was last gen.
This isn't to say that weather isn't viable anymore, but it is significantly worse than it was last gen.
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Worse than last gen, but not bad. It will go back to having a gen 4 feel to it
Kingdra will actually appreciate the change, and Tyranitar can still be viable, just not subjugated to menial weather war tasks. My Tyranitar can go in, wall any special move (except focus blast) and kill its target without having to be built around, so I think 2 pokemon might like 6th gen weather
T-tar doesn't even really care about the weather change outside of losing an item slot to mega stone or smooth rock. T-tar still will do it's job Just fine with little to no issues. Only weather setter who cares is Ninetails. Being weak to rocks, while being the fastest setter meaning her weather always gets canceled out by other setters, but now having those issues, and having to switch in more frequently doesn't vote well for her.
Yeah, sun offense is dead to OU-- but it might still be lethal in UU, with Defog letting you get Moltres in easier, and the traditional devastation sun can reek at UU levels. Especially if Politoed stays OU (likely), Ninetales in UU could have a chance to still make a real mark. I don't foresee sun being broken down there with Aurorus giving Hail a setter that isn't weak to Fire, and Hippowdon even potentially making his way down there.
Actually the same can be said Abomasnow politoad core. Politoad's electric and grass weaknesses are resisted by abomasnow when abomasnow snows fire and steel weaknesses are negated by politoad.
Also you can pack things on the team that don't directly Benefit from Rain as long as it gives syenergy to the team or adds key resistances, resist, or checks to the team.
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