Other Weather Nerf

[azureleaf17]

Does anyone think that the weather nerf was too much? I understand all too well that weather was ridiculously and perhaps overly powerful in Generation V and that SOMETHING needed to be done to bring it down (I ran solely weatherless teams in staunch defiance of all things weather), but I'm wondering if rain / sun / sand / hail will have any place in Generation VI's metagame, primarily because keeping them up will be so much more difficult now in the hard-hitting upper tiers. Would there have been a better way to cut down weather's influence without neutering it altogther?

Also, how will this change the presence of Pokemon in OU? Politoed, Ninetales, and (to a lesser extent) Abomasnow were deeply underwhelming outside of the weather that they bring, and yet having permanent insta-weather was more than worth a teamslot. Will they still be worth that spot on a team in Generation VI, despite having to come in much more often to set up their respective weathers and (probably) having to give up their item of choice for a weather-support item? Also, some Pokemon like Venusaur and Toxicroak were OU almost exclusively in their weather of choice, and probably would not have seen much usage in OU had weather not been such a powerful force; is their influence in sun, rain, sand, or hail still large enough to overcome the overall weather nerf?

 

[sidakarya]

Well, the DPPt metagame didn't even have auto-rain and -sun, and it had Sandstreamers to worry about, but Rain Dance teams found ways to get by. If anything they might be in a better position now as weatherless teams dominate the metagame.

Still, I think Politoed and Ninetales will lose quite a bit of popularity, since now it's work to keep them alive for as long as possible. Weather teams might even be most effective with an auto-summoner in conjunction with manual weather backup now.

Venusaur still has a tanky M-Evo for what it's worth, which might be useful on defensive teams. The others... maybe not so lucky.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Does anyone think that the weather nerf was too much?

I'm honestly not sure that this is possible. Permanent auto-weather was cancerous for the metagame because it essentially divided the meta into these categories: weather, teams specifically designed to counter weather threats, and other (Dragonzone, Baton Pass, Custap Spikes Lead + Offense, etc.). The weather nerf will make the meta much less focused on dealing with weather and the Pokemon that abuse it, and more on synergy and countering individual threats.

Good freakin riddance to perma-weather, I say. Weather isn't entirely dead, anyway; strategies like Drizzleswim may still work, but are much more fragile, as they should be.

 

[Somebody Anonymous]

I actually will miss the permanent weather. Although it was more powerful, many team were weather-less and performed just as well. Weather may have had an advantage compared to other play-styles, but I feel that a 5-turn limit nerf is going too far.

 

[sidakarya]

I actually will miss the permanent weather. Although it was more powerful, many team were weather-less and performed just as well. Weather may have had an advantage compared to other play-styles, but I feel that a 5-turn limit nerf is going too far.

It really isn't. A lot of things in BW were overpowering just because of permanent weather (Excadrill, the Kamis, Drizzleswim etc.).

There's also the problem that especially in BW2, rain was dominant over everything else and really stifled team diversity. Back in January you could honestly go through five rain teams with exactly the same Pokemon with the same movesets.

 

[Chou Toshio]

So what do you guys think about Synthesis / Morning Sun / Moonlight in OU this gen, with Rain and Sand being non-permanent?

 

[raddaya]

So what do you guys think about Synthesis / Morning Sun / Moonlight in OU this gen, with Rain and Sand being non-permanent?

I'm just wondering if Cresselia will be awesome again...

 

[WashedLaundry]

So what do you guys think about Synthesis / Morning Sun / Moonlight in OU this gen, with Rain and Sand being non-permanent?

I've already been considering 'Mons that relied on it moreso. I don't expect Sand/Rain/Sun playstyles to persist and I expect to see TTar not because of Sand but because of everything else he offers. As a result, I expect more Cresselia, maybe even more Umbreon, and definitely more Synthesis users in OU, even though Recover/Slack Off/Roost are more optimal due to having 10 base PP instead of 5.

 

[sidakarya]

M-Venusaur will surely appreciate it. Even though Sun isn't there to boost it, it's still more reliable as recovery than ever.

 

[Halcyon.]

I built a rain team with Damp Rock Politoed, LO Kingdra, SD Rapid Spin Kabutops, Tailwind Rain Dance Tornadus, LO Ludicolo, and Ferrothorn and it was extremely effective. I think Swift Swim is still a terrifyingly powerful strategy even with weather being nerfed. You still get 8 turns to do basically whatever you want, as eveything that isn't Ferrothorn dies to LO Kingdra + Kabutops. The only problems I ran into were Sticky Web + Scarf Gengar (outspeeds Kabutops), Talonflame (surprisingly), and Blissey if Kabutops died. So few people are running opposing weathers that it really wasn't hard to keep Politoed and Tornadus alive (I was actually running Rest on Politoed because I didn't need it to be awake, I just needed it to be alive). As I said before 8 turns are more than enough to do some serious damage, and I had no trouble setting up weather multiple times if I had to. the only real drawback was having to cut a sweep short if the rain ended before I was done murdering my opponent. In fact, in a few of the matches I had, people simply forfeit and called me unkind names for using what they called a "fucking retarded" strategy.

On that note, I want to say that this is not the same overpowered strategy it was back in early BW. if Politoed died (wasn't hard since it had no Leftovers and had to rely on Rest for healing), then I was up a creek. I still had Tornadus, but it was frail and usually only used Rain Dance as it was about to die, giving me four turns to sweep. And although I was able to play around the weather dying out, it was still a nuisance, and my opponent could easily take advantage of me during the turns when rain was not up by setting up their Aegislash or whatever. In one of the first matches I played with it, Kabutops had Aqua Jet instead of Rapid Spin, which was a huge mistake because I got totally screwed over by Sticky Web (I still think that move is broken a fuck, but whatever). There are many ways that this strategy can be dealt with, and even if Swift Swim spam is a deadly playstyle, it can be played around.

That being said, I guess the point of this is to say that weather is nerfed, yes, but this is actually a godsend for rain offense. It no longer has to worry about other weather setters (for the most part), and gets to abuse the downright broken Kingdra and other Swift Swimmers. Definitely a fun and viable strategy to use in XY if Swift Swim gets unbanned (which I assume it will).

 

[Iura]

Actually holding a rock does NOT extend the time of a weather ability. It will always be 5 turns.
At least that's what I found on a source

 

[sidakarya]

Actually holding a rock does NOT extend the time of a weather ability. It will always be 5 turns.
At least that's what I found on a source

Actually the research on Smogon found out that rocks do increase the turn count to eight.

I might actually start running rain again, since I had a lot of fun with rain teams back in DPPt.
Zapdos and Latias could be good supporters with Defog removing Sticky Web (I assume it does), and they can replenish Rain Dance too if Politoed dies.

 

[Halcyon.]

Actually holding a rock does NOT extend the time of a weather ability. It will always be 5 turns.
At least that's what I found on a source

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ee-posts-818-858.3487182/page-58#post-4883068

 

[Iura]

I stand corrected
Eh... Still rather not hold a stone. I'm sticking with Sand, Ttar is just a minor annoyance then with sand.
Excadrill's Sand Rush doesn't seem like his most played set... It seems like it's the Bulky Spinner one with Mold Breaker so using Excadrill as an example is meh. Well personal I see those. I loved Sand Rush.
Well... Raised a 9tails and toad for no reason

 

[SalTheThief]

Seriously, I'm blown away that Nintendo did something about weather before Smogon did. I'm glad that weather is being changed to the rain dance style teams of DPPt, where each turn needs to be taken advantage of instead of the Seattle style rain of Gen 5. With the heavy nerfs to duration I wouldn't be surprised if KingColoTops made a return. They were really strong but I'm not sure if they'll be able to do the same amount of damage in 5 - 8 turns that they did before. I'm really on the fence about Excadrill because if he gets a Swords Dance he doesn't even need that many turns to heavily damage or completely remove your checks from the game.

 

[No hugs 4 U]

With weather nerfed to the level it has, weather teams are going now be filled with fast offensive sweepers because the 5-8 turns leaves a lot less time to set up and weather teams will have to focus on dealing as much damage as possible in that time. Plus I don't think politoad and ninetails will be all that useful anymore. Thier stats were never that good to begin with and why waste a team slot on them when you can simply use rain dance or sunny day to get the same effect and it will save you a valuable team slot.

 

[El Coqui]

As someone who stopped playing OU because of weather stall im happy. I know the overwhelming, overall community is complaining because they lost their prized gems but really suck it up. When you think about it weather wars had already made weather change a bunch of times durig a battle until one weather starter is gone. All this really means is Stall is dead and offensive teams will be forced to be more aggressive. Not a big deal really.

To me this will just seem like when i run into a ludicolo or exeguttors in NU who run Dance/Day with SwiftSwim/Chloryphll so not much of a big deal now especially since by thing point evenyone should be able to expect what will be on rain, sand, or sun teams (and the rare hail)

 

[PKMN1]

It really isn't. A lot of things in BW were overpowering just because of permanent weather (Excadrill, the Kamis, Drizzleswim etc.).

There's also the problem that especially in BW2, rain was dominant over everything else and really stifled team diversity. Back in January you could honestly go through five rain teams with exactly the same Pokemon with the same movesets.

and? the same thing happened with or without weather and most of Smogon saw the same 20-30 pokemon throughout all of gen 4 and 5, but that was never touched at all

Thank Arceus for this nerf as it allows weather to still be useful, but not incredibly important to have something to use against it all the time.

 

[bobismoi]

I personally see Sand and Rain Offense becoming the Meta- Defining teams. The first team I will most likely build first is going to be Sand Balance:

Hippo
T-Tar
Goodra
Excadrill (assuming it is OU, which it probably will be)
2 others

I think that right there will be the most devastating force the Meta will have to offer. Hippo and T-Tar have fantastic synergy and will probably form a Dual-Weather core. Goodra covers the weaknesses shared by the Sand Core (plus, who doesn't LOVE Goodra?!?!). Excadrill would be the Late Game cleaner, and the last 2 slots would probably be a Revenge Killer and another Sweeper. You heard it here first folks, that right there is the Meta- Defining Team of Gen 6. As for Rain, Kabutops, Ludicolo, and especially Kingdra would probably shoot straight up into OU. Sun might have a small niche as Anti- Weather, but nothing more. And, of course Hail could be used, especially with Mega Obama, but it will most likely be outclassed by the other weathers.

 

[Blexzenn]

I am guessing that I am the only one who doesn't like this?

 

[bobismoi]

Considering that Perma- Weather was the most stupid-broken thing in the history of Pokemon (except maybe Gen I Mewtwo) yes, you are the only one.

 

[-Nitro-]

One possibly interesting implication about non-permanent weather is that you can use a weather-related core for team building, WITHOUT having to worry about it being permanent. Additionally, you have more options. Before, you wouldn't use T-tar on a rain team because it'd be straight counterproductive. Now, you can have him on a team that has a few rain users, and not have to worry so much about sand stream, because the rain would have ended anyway.

It may not be effective, nor all too different, as even in BW rain teams obviously didn't use ONLY rain pokemon, but did have a solid core. However, there were things you WOULDN'T run on a rain team. Things like solar beam, synthesis, Tyranitar, anything that relied on fire moves. Now, you have the freedom and ability to run those without being "disadvantaged" by permanent rain.

 

[AceTogeTrainer]

will protect usage in singles jump because of this? since it's possible to wait out weather ?

 

[youngjake93]

I think the one thing that a lot of people don't account for is that weather will be less popular. So when a Pokemon is so dominant that it can sweep in 4 turns, it is going to be even sweeter because worrying about weather wars will be rare. Right now you have to build the whole team around weather wars.
For example, Venusaur against weatherless is RIDICULOUS. Venusaur against rain/sand is meh... If rain is less popular, Chlorophyll Venusaur might actually be MORE dangerous even though sun only lasts so many turns.

 

[Haruno]

On the bright side stoutland got 110 base attack now! 10 more than 5th gen.