Tier Shift Viability Rankings (Complete Revamp)

[Deathly ♛The King]

Name: Gardevoir (Unranked -> One of the A ranks)

Tier: OU
Stats: 68 / 85 / 65 / 165 / 135 / 100

Abilities: Synchronize / Trace / Telepathy -> Pixilate

What it Does: This thing is quite versatile. It is a somewhat bulky, somewhat fast, special attacker that has a lot of utility moves. It breaks the main ts walls (barring cresselia), as well as being able to bulk powerful hits on both sides of the spectrum and retaliate harshly (See calcs below.) This pokemon can be an excellent stallbreaker if you use calm mind, turning chansey and blissey into set up fodder.

This is the set I use:

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Hyper Voice
- Heal Bell / Will-O-Wisp / Calm Mind / Anything you want
- Focus Blast / Thunderbolt

Calcs

252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 288-338 (63.7 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 104 HP / 156 SpD Alomomola: 291-343 (56.2 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Skarmory: 236-278 (70.6 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Uxie: 160-190 (41.6 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
RIP, my great walls of ts. Also didn't bother to calc Cress, we all know it would only be like a 3hko - 4hko.
252 Atk Mega Swampert Swampert Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 211-250 (75.8 - 89.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 136-160 (48.9 - 57.5%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 430-508 (154.6 - 182.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (I don't think anybody expected it to survive this, but w/e)
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 190-224 (68.3 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 224-266 (80.5 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Why this Rank: It is an amazing stallbreaker with a good typing, nice speed, and nice bulk. S would be too high, although B+ would be too low, in my opinion, because it doesn't require much team support and isn't really outclassed by anything. In fact, it can offer team support if it wants to with heal bell.

 

[Throbulator36]

I couldn't find a post ranking accelgor and would like to know why it's ranked so low.

 

[dhelmise]

I couldn't find a post ranking accelgor and would like to know why it's ranked so low.

It's defenses aren't that good and if you don't like its ranking then make one

 

[Throbulator36]

It's defenses aren't that good and if you don't like its ranking then make one

no...
I wouldn't be able to make one for accelgor but I do plan on making one for torterra soon

 

[Kingslayer2779]

Name: Gardevoir (Unranked -> One of the A ranks)

Tier: OU
Stats: 68 / 85 / 65 / 165 / 135 / 100

Abilities: Synchronize / Trace / Telepathy -> Pixilate

What it Does: This thing is quite versatile. It is a somewhat bulky, somewhat fast, special attacker that has a lot of utility moves. It breaks the main ts walls (barring cresselia), as well as being able to bulk powerful hits on both sides of the spectrum and retaliate harshly (See calcs below.) This pokemon can be an excellent stallbreaker if you use calm mind, turning chansey and blissey into set up fodder.

This is the set I use:

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Hyper Voice
- Heal Bell / Will-O-Wisp / Calm Mind / Anything you want
- Focus Blast / Thunderbolt

Calcs

252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Amoonguss: 288-338 (63.7 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 104 HP / 156 SpD Alomomola: 291-343 (56.2 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Skarmory: 236-278 (70.6 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Uxie: 160-190 (41.6 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
RIP, my great walls of ts. Also didn't bother to calc Cress, we all know it would only be like a 3hko - 4hko.
252 Atk Mega Swampert Swampert Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 211-250 (75.8 - 89.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 136-160 (48.9 - 57.5%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 430-508 (154.6 - 182.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (I don't think anybody expected it to survive this, but w/e)
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 190-224 (68.3 - 80.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 224-266 (80.5 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Why this Rank: It is an amazing stallbreaker with a good typing, nice speed, and nice bulk. S would be too high, although B+ would be too low, in my opinion, because it doesn't require much team support and isn't really outclassed by anything. In fact, it can offer team support if it wants to with heal bell.

While it does have a good typing and hits a good deal of walls very hard, I scoff at the notion that Gardevoir has nice bulk and speed. Its Physical bulk is quite lacking. In fact I suggest investing in HP with the set u are using so u can run Modest and bulk more attacks from walls. Also your calcs are cherry picked. Here are some that cast Gardevoir in a much less favorable light :

Calcs

192+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Gardevoir: 277-327 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 261-307 (94.2 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 246-289 (88.8 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 335-405 (120.9 - 146.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I think i have proven my point on its physical bulk now for things that wall it
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 151-178 (34 - 40%) -- 36.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 160-189 (38.6 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 105-124 (29.3 - 34.6%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Uxie: 160-190 (41.6 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
^your own calc deathly

I could go on but too lazy

In conclusion i would say its best ranked at B. Also Deathly here is a better set:
Gardevoir-Mega @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Substitute/Taunt
- Calm Mind

This set is the ruiner of Stall. Calm Mind gets it stronger and bulkier, and Sub protect from status. Hyper Voice and Psyshock sweep for days. Taunt shuts down recovery as an alternate option.

 

[Tinystalker]

Cradily. 101 hp. 112 defense. 122 special defense. that ungodly amazing bulk is combined with a baller movepool including stealth rock, infestation, giga drain, infestation, stock pile, pain split, recover/synthesis, and of course toxic and substitute. did i mention is also has freaking storm drain, which takes a massive dump upon rain teams? cradily is love, cradily is life

 

[Throbulator36]

Cradily. 101 hp. 112 defense. 122 special defense. that ungodly amazing bulk is combined with a baller movepool including stealth rock, infestation, giga drain, infestation, stock pile, pain split, recover/synthesis, and of course toxic and substitute. did i mention is also has freaking storm drain, which takes a massive dump upon rain teams? cradily is love, cradily is life

and cradily is destroyed by gallade

 

[Jimmy L]

I've been using Ferroseed lately. With the +15 to defence + eviolite with full investment in Def, it's even bulkier than Ferrothorn. Better SpD, pretty much equal HP with the Tier shift bonus. Thoughts?

 

[Kingslayer2779]

Reserving the following for Analysis-

Pelipper

Stats: 75/65/115/100/85/80 (Pu)
sample moveset:
Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam/Air Slash/Toxic
- Defog
- Roost

The Church of Pelipper would have you believe that this Pokemon is the master of the universe itself. But is it even viable in Tier Shift? what exactly does it do? Well a quick glance at its stats tells us its a defensive wall and should not be used for any other reason. So why use it over Skarm or Alomomola? Does Pelipper outshine either of they in any particular area? The short answer: Not Really. Pelipper has a stronger Scald then Mola but cannot pass wishes and cannot wall Victini, is shaky against Mega Sharpedo, but does wall Virizion with Air Slash, as it can tank Stone Edge before it boosts. However Pelipper offers little Skarm doesn't. Pelipper preforms no better against Charizard X, wall breaker Darmantian, and has a Stealth Rock weakness. Pelipper can preform well on certain teams but its selection really hinges on type synergy, other wise you are better off with Mola or Skarm. Rank C

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 192-229 (54.3 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 153-181 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 186-220 (52.6 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Virizion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 120-142 (33.9 - 40.2%) -- 32.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Gallade-Mega

Stats: 68/165/95/65/115/110 (Ou)

Gallade was once considered by some (me) to be too good for the meta at RU. Well success in standards has move Mega-Gallade up to OU. Without the extra boosts to its power, speed, and bulk how well does Gallade match up against the tier? Well Mega-Gallade still 2hkos Alomomola after a Swords Dance. Still very strong. However, it is solidly walled before boosting and several wallbreakers can break Alomomola after boosting so its not super impressive. Gallade's solid coverage of Close Combat/ Psycho Cut/ and Knock Off leave it little potential walls. Gallade only has trouble hitting Dark/Ghost types, and Ou players know pairing Gallade with Specs Sylveon produces great results. Specs Sylveon beats Mega Slowbro and Mega Sableye, Gallade's two main walls. Gallade is fantastic against Stall due to the the overwhelming pressure it puts on the stall player. However there is more than one Pokemon that can put pressure on Stall. What makes Gallade so special? Gallade's 110 but its in a decent speed tier, but is average in Tier Shift. Gallade's lack of physical bulk also makes it vulnerable to revenge kill by pirority. Overall much less of a threat now that its Ou but still very effective against stall and can sweep offense easily after the revenge killers are taken out. Rank A-

+2 252 Atk Mega Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 361-426 (65.1 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 285-335 (102.8 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
84 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 102-121 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[insanelegend]

Ok an update is really needed at this point. In addition to changes in rankings, I have added Kingslayer2779 to the viability ranking council as he is very helpful to me and does a lot on showdown with me. Some other council members may be taken off due to inactivity. Onto rankings

Politoed: S -> A+
Feraligatr: Unranked -> A-
Pinsir-Mega: Unranked -> S
Terrakion: Unranked -> A
Mega Diancie: Unranked -> A-
Pelipper: Stays Unranked (Seriously stop using this Deathly ♛The King )
Galvantula: Unranked -> B-
Liepard: Unranked -> C+

Give me a sec to add more

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Umm why does Mega Pinsir is in S? Isn't it basically OU Pinsir with a little more bulk and Speed?

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Umm why does Mega Pinsir is in S? Isn't it basically OU Pinsir with a little more bulk and Speed?

And? OU pinsir is incredible, even if it has dropped. It's so fast and so strong. S might be a little high, but it was S in mid X&Y, I think.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Sorry for the double post, but I think the two are different enough thoughts to justify a second. I want to add that now pinsir dropped to RU, putting it at a super trolly 115 speed, so it's even more formidable, tho it is less impressive in tier shift w/ stuff like tornadus flying around at 121. It also has a beastly 165 base attack + aerialate. I think that definitely justifies S-rank. It can run the standard SD + three attacks, some variation of that, or even PaulGilbert's sub + flail set that got him to #1 on the OU ladder. At this point, anything less than S would be ridiculous.

 

[Pagoose]

pinsir needs to go to s immediately. may even be the first ban in tier shift history.

 

[Whis]

Few additions to the tier list.
First add jolteon
base 140 speed lets this thing out class mega manetric with ease and lets it become a devastating specs user with base 120 special. Most things (besides walls) get OKHO'd easily. It doesnt have the best move pool but that doesnt stop it from hitting hard.
Add swellow to C-D rank
Base 100 attack and 140 speed and guts yes please. very little outspeeds this thing and after an attack boost (via work up and baton pass) it OHKO's nearly the entire game. with STAB facade is extremely powerful and Brave Bird as well is great however swellow usualy ends up dying do to flame orb and it is weak to SR that doesnt stop it from hitting as hard as it can and knocking out a few pokemon during its time on the battlefield.
And finally musharna
This is a great wall that needs to be added to the tier
musharna would have 131 base HP 100 Def and 110 spdef
soo bulky. although it is outclassed by alomomola its still good and should be added to C rank

Dunsparce for D rank plz. It has amazing HP and can take a hit and paralyze with body slam and keep flinching with headbutt

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

pinsir needs to go to s immediately. may even be the first ban in tier shift history.

First ban in history is Chatter btw.

Also, in Tier Shift thread, Deathly has a replay about Mega Medicham not outspeeding Thundurus T, which has 106 base Speed. Medicham now is RU/BL2, so the mega should get 110 Speed. But the fact that it's outsped by Thundy T means it still has 105 Speed. If this apply to Pinsir, no 115 Speed Mega Pinsir for you. Which means things like Thundurus I and Terrakion still outspeed it. Not S rank material for me imo. A+ is fits I think.

Few additions to the tier list.
First add jolteon
base 140 speed lets this thing out class mega manetric with ease and lets it become a devastating specs user with base 120 special. Most things (besides walls) get OKHO'd easily. It doesnt have the best move pool but that doesnt stop it from hitting hard.
Add swellow to C-D rank
Base 100 attack and 140 speed and guts yes please. very little outspeeds this thing and after an attack boost (via work up and baton pass) it OHKO's nearly the entire game. with STAB facade is extremely powerful and Brave Bird as well is great however swellow usualy ends up dying do to flame orb and it is weak to SR that doesnt stop it from hitting as hard as it can and knocking out a few pokemon during its time on the battlefield.
And finally musharna
This is a great wall that needs to be added to the tier
musharna would have 131 base HP 100 Def and 110 spdef
soo bulky. although it is outclassed by alomomola its still good and should be added to C rank

Dunsparce for D rank plz. It has amazing HP and can take a hit and paralyze with body slam and keep flinching with headbutt

Swellow almost never carry Work Up because it can't eat damage during the set up turn because its very frail.

Also Jolteon doesn't outclass Mega Manectric because Mega Manectric has Intimidate which is very useful as a Volt Switch user, because Intimidate can force switches.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

First ban in history is Chatter btw.

Also, in Tier Shift thread, Deathly has a replay about Mega Medicham not outspeeding Thundurus T, which has 106 base Speed. Medicham now is RU/BL2, so the mega should get 110 Speed. But the fact that it's outsped by Thundy T means it still has 105 Speed. If this apply to Pinsir, no 115 Speed Mega Pinsir for you. Which means things like Thundurus I and Terrakion still outspeed it. Not S rank material for me imo. A+ is fits I think.

Showdown is currently still treating it as UU, which is just a coding issue, I'd assume. This should probably be fixed pretty soon, so 115 speed pinsir at least will be a thing.

 

[Throbulator36]

And finally musharna
This is a great wall that needs to be added to the tier
musharna would have 131 base HP 100 Def and 110 spdef
soo bulky. although it is outclassed by alomomola its still good and should be added to C rank

Dunsparce for D rank plz. It has amazing HP and can take a hit and paralyze with body slam and keep flinching with headbutt

PUsharna has literally 0 things to make it viable considering all of its useful moves are used by cress and it has less bulk than cress(even in standard).

Dunsparce is outclassed by jirachi

 

[Ranger Mike]

PUsharna has literally 0 things to make it viable considering all of its useful moves are used by cress and it has less bulk than cress(even in standard).

Dunsparce is outclassed by jirachi

Not true, first of all uxie is pretty much better than cress in every way besides recovery (but 8 pp recovery still sucks) and lunar dance (but uxie does get memento so that's arguable). Anyways regarding mushy, it has a slow bp which is really nice and has heal bell. I guess they are interchangeable in terms of being defensive but subcm, dual screens, and just support in general is better done by uxie. Also subcm uxie is a setup sweeper that beats quagsire if you run giga drain.

 

[Throbulator36]

Not true, first of all uxie is pretty much better than cress in every way besides recovery (but 8 pp recovery still sucks) and lunar dance (but uxie does get memento so that's arguable). Anyways regarding mushy, it has a slow bp which is really nice and has heal bell. I guess they are interchangeable in terms of being defensive but subcm, dual screens, and just support in general is better done by uxie. Also subcm uxie is a setup sweeper that beats quagsire if you run giga drain.

Well uxie is a different role Cressatina due to wearing down more easily so it doesn't really outclass PUsharna which has the same roles as Cress.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Not true, first of all uxie is pretty much better than cress in every way besides recovery (but 8 pp recovery still sucks) and lunar dance (but uxie does get memento so that's arguable). Anyways regarding mushy, it has a slow bp which is really nice and has heal bell. I guess they are interchangeable in terms of being defensive but subcm, dual screens, and just support in general is better done by uxie. Also subcm uxie is a setup sweeper that beats quagsire if you run giga drain.

Meh, cress is still better. Musharna has a couple extra tools, but I don't think they're worth it except maybe on select teams.

Uxie, on the other hand, is just different. It works better as an offensive screens setter or support or something. Cress is the goddess of stall.

 

[Kingslayer2779]

Showdown is currently still treating it as UU, which is just a coding issue, I'd assume. This should probably be fixed pretty soon, so 115 speed pinsir at least will be a thing.

Pinsir is RU, so its base form will get +10 in each stat. However Pinsir-Mega remains BL. So its Mega form only has 5+. This is not an error in coding, it is intentional. Essentially it loses the RU boosts upon mega evolution. This helps keep the Megas balanced as the regular forms fall.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Pinsir is RU, so its base form will get +10 in each stat. However Pinsir-Mega remains BL. So its Mega form only has 5+. This is not an error in coding, it is intentional. Essentially it loses the RU boosts upon mega evolution. This helps keep the Megas balanced as the regular forms fall.

No, the boost is based off of the base form, this was determined at the start of X&Y, and unless that's changed recently, it still should be based off this. And on showdown pinsir is still UU, or it was last night. I guess it's just not up to date yet.

EDIT: it's been updated, pinsir is RU.

 

[xJownage]

No, the boost is based off of the base form, this was determined at the start of X&Y, and unless that's changed recently, it still should be based off this. And on showdown pinsir is still UU, or it was last night. I guess it's just not up to date yet.

EDIT: it's been updated, pinsir is RU.

no, this is not true, and the example provided proved that. Medicham, in its base form, is RU and has been for a significant time frame. Its mega, however, gets +5 in the tier shift coding (outsped by thun-t, which has 106 speed) as proven by their example.

I am not sure if this was a recent change, but tbh its been going on for a while now so its no surprise.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

no, this is not true, and the example provided proved that. Medicham, in its base form, is RU and has been for a significant time frame. Its mega, however, gets +5 in the tier shift coding (outsped by thun-t, which has 106 speed) as proven by their example.

I am not sure if this was a recent change, but tbh its been going on for a while now so its no surprise.

Quoting the TS X&Y thread, from nearly the beginning of the thread (and it's always been this way unless it's been changed):

I discussed this with eriados on irc before I coded it, and we decided that the boost the mega gets will be the same as the boost its base forme gets, regardless of any inconsistent tiering. If it comes to it, any megas that are found to be overcentralising can be suspected and banned, or we can reconsider the implementation, but for now we're assuming the mega forme and the base forme are treated as if they are tiered the same way. The reasoning behind this is to avoid changing base HP stats mid-battle, which would occur if the two formes got different boosts.

Yeah, I am pretty sure it might just be an inconsistency in the coding. Also, the OP of the thread says the same thing regarding Megas in diferent teirs than their base forms.

EDIT: when was that replay, btw? Medicham hasn't always been RU this gen; it was even OU for a while.