Manaphy is a terrible Pokemon. It's not even on OU standard. I mean 600 BST is just a joke and getting up to +3 after a boost isn't enough to just tear down walls. I wouldn't even use it if I were paid to. Definitely NU material with the weather nerf.
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Other Freed Ubers
- Thread starter Talpr0ne
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I actually tried it, and its power is quite disappointing when it is unboosted. I stopped using it when it couldn't kill a specially defensive Gliscor (my opponent said he used max special defense EVs and I thought the meta would focus on its physical defense). Aura Sphere could make it into a monster though but that's theorymoning.
At 3+ Timid Surf barely KOs minimally defensive Garchomp.
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 351-414 (98 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
(Of course you are going to use Ice Beam to kill Garchomp during a Sweep, but my point is to illustrate its neutral power.) 3+ Manaphy Surf is not Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump in the Rain.
I gave Manaphy up for Greninja.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I mean a 600 BST Water Pokemon having a hard time KO'ing a ground type. Can I even go as low as saying PU tier. It's honestly taking up space in OU. One turn +3 Tail Glow just takes way too much investment and isn't worth dedicating an entire team around. It's offensive prowess is lacking and I would even go as far as classifying it as a digimon.
>Not Using LO
>Even if Not using LO ignoring the fact that even that replacement Greninja cannot OHKO the same (shitty niche) SpDef Gliscor without LO, despite having access to a more powerful Hydro Pump.
>+3 boost is apparently too much investment nowadays.
I don't even..... wat.
Even I agree manaphy has seen a nerf with the drizzle limitation, but this argument just takes the cake.
The Gliscor does have some merit since it does take advantage of the special attack nerf to survive an Ice Beam, an Ice Beam not Hidden Power Ice. The Gliscor could just retreat and come back on another Pokemon that isn't equipped to deal with it. It has Protect so it can buy a free turn of Poison Heal and it has a great speed tier for a defensive Pokemon. Gliscor is not like a Hippowdon at 15% health where almost any attack can kill it before it can successfully use Slack Off.
Actually, even with no boosting item, STAB Ice Beam OHKOs all Gliscor with a 103 252 SpAtk.
252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 436-516 (123.1 - 145.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 292-344 (82.4 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If he was using a neutral natured Gliscor as opposed to Calm, then I probably got a low role.
The nerf to Hydro Pump also means you cannot yield a guaranteed kill with a 32 SpAtk Rotom-W (even if your opponent mispredicted a Volt Switch and you get) and it outspeeds Rotom. There is an incentive for Gliscor users to actually invest to avoid KOs from common special attacks.
32 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 324-384 (91.5 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
For that particular battle, I U-turned out with a lead Landorus-T because I did not want it to setup sub and I thought Manaphy would at least force it out (or kill it) with Ice Beam.
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One of Manaphy supposed selling points to me was that it was as powerful as Life Orb 1+ Keldeo without Life Orb recoil so it could effectively prolong its sweep. While Manaphy becomes very powerful after a single boost, it does not have much immediate power. It is really slow since it requires a turn to be threaten while a Life Orb (or whatever item your opponent think it possesses) Keldeo (from Gen 5) is immediately threatening and that immediate threat can buy it a Calm Mind boost.
You guys are insane if you think Manaphy is terrible. Manaphy is one of the better freed ubers, behind Genesect and Thundurus. We're talking about a Pokemon not only with 100 Special Attack and Speed, but also with 100/100/100 bulk and the ability to boost its Special Attack by 3 stages in one turn. It also has great coverage with only three moves. I'm not sure why the fuck we're bringing up SDef Gliscor (which is terrible, like, seriously?), but Manaphy just destroys teams late game. U-turn with Genesect as they switch their Heatran in. Oh guess what? Free Tail Glow and possible sweep. Not only that, but it's also a great wall breaker for special attackers. I mean, what's gonna stop it? Blissey gets set up on and easily 2HKOed at +6. Goodra also gets set up on and 2HKOed at +3, the only thing that comes close to beating it defensively is Mega Venusaur, and it can run Psychic for that if it needs to (which also 2HKOs Rotom-W at +3). Seriously, how are you people using this thing? Pair it with a bunch of wallbreakers and/or T wave support and go to town. The only reason I don't have replay evidence of its destruction atm is because the battles that last 8 turns because Manaphy sweeps are too boring to save .-.
Also, what happened turn 2 against that Gliscor? I'm guessing it died anyway.
252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 284-336 (80.2 - 94.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
smh
Also, what happened turn 2 against that Gliscor? I'm guessing it died anyway.
252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 284-336 (80.2 - 94.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
smh
Agreed here; although not for the same reasons:
- Sp.Def Gliscor; if we're talking about Tail Glow Manaphy; is OHKO'ed by Ice Beam anyway. Surf is Irrelevant.
- You are forgetting Manaphy's scariest set. The set which is the reason it got banned. Not perma-rain; not Tail Glow. This. Which was deemed bad enough to Uber it without Drizzle [Note I cannot recall exact EV's]:
Manaphy @ Leftovers/Life Orb/Splash Plate/Damp Rock
252 HP/252 Def/4 Sp.Atk [Can't recall if these were different for a speed benchmark]
Bold Nature
Hydration
- Surf
- Rain Dance
- Rest
- Calm Mind
The only thing that can switch in on this is something with Dry Skin/Storm Drain/Water Absorb. The list of viable pokemon with any of these is few and far between. Gastrodon was never really good; it was just an icon of Drizzle's over-centralization; and Vaporeon isn't as good as it used to be.
Manaphy's far too bulky to be OHKO'ed by most priority; and Ageislash can't exactly set up Swords Dance against a Rain-Boosted STAB Surf from 100 Sp.Atk base; that may be Calm Mind Boosted.
[P]Hazing isn't common these days.
Toxicstallng won't work either.
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So? even Manaphy can do that. i thought your point was to illustrate the strength of STAB attacks. I see no other reason to use surf on Garchomp and Gliscor? Stop shifting goalposts.
I am not very scared anymore of deoxys-s, tornadus thundorus and manephy i dont even ingssee it. but landorus with that great typing and that speed to out speed many thing, deoxys-d isn't a thread but with a red card he is great to set up hazards and excadrill with a teammate like tyranitar will destroy at least one of our pokemon
I was being purely sarcastic. Half of these freed ubers will be banned eventually. Manaphy is still very destructive and it's partly because Energy Ball got a buff and thus making its sweeps even more dangerous. You need to come in safely and setup 1 Tail Glow and then proceed to damage an entire team. Even without rain, it's power is way too much for OU especially since it only requires 1 turn to setup up.
I said it was to illustrate the power of a neutral attack from it. Garchomp has nice natural bulky and it is hit neutrally with Surf.
You can use one of the Drives to bluff Scarf, and as mentioned it has a niche use of removing some of Genesect's checks. It shouldn't be standard though, because Scarf and LO are so much better overall. Not a standard option but not useless imo.
The point of a lure is that it lures a pokemon in. Herego, Douse drive genesect is useless. Its like using a Keldeo R, while it is of course much better than normal keldeo, you can't bluff not having a horn (NOTE, THis is a Joke for all of you excited to say "Keldeo R is the same as normal Keldeo")
I haven't even played against it so far, but I found that for me, it either got in really easily, boosted, and wrecked shop, or it just flopped as soon as it came in. 100/100/100 mono Water typing is only good defensively if you were to invest in it, it doesn't have the resistances that a sweeper would like to capitalize on, like Lucario, for example. Once it gets that boost, though, it can definitely mess teams up.
Does anyone else like Leftovers Genesect? Most people realize they're never going to get the match-up they want on it because of all the voltturn shenanigans, so they rely on hazards to bring it down into KO range for scald/earthquake/thunderbolt/foulplay/whatever. You can usually bluff scarf for a few turns before you get any damage yet, and 71/95/95 defenses is actually pretty dang good and there's literally millions of move combinations you can put together with him, all of them good. Leftovers just keeps you around longer and could help you pull off a shift gear, gravity, reflect, substitute, or rock polish or something. You can even just go standard uturn/flamethrower/icebeam/ironhead with leftovers and get off one or two more moves than you usually would have. Lately I've been disenchanted with scarf so I tried lefties and I thought it was good, I would recommend it on your next team of thrown-together idea-mons.
Lucario does capitalize on that 82 defensive stat and steel typing. Makes it difficult for ExtremeSpeed Genesect to revenge kill since it denies it the precious Download boost. I won a match against Mega Luke due to a crit with ES.
To be honest, I haven't had any issues against it either. I know everyone is saying it's a really good Pokemon, but maybe it's just my playstyle that has made it mostly a non-issue to me. I usually run either pretty offensive teams or bulkier teams with tons of pivots because I hate not having the upper hand. Still, I tried playing with it tonight and was so underwhelmed with it lol. I know it's not the case because it's a Water-type with good bulk, but I felt like I didn't get any opportunities to set up with it. Maybe it was just the opponent's I played. /shrug
It doesn't give you momentum or take away your opponent's momentum (as a pivot would do), but it is quite powerful if it could launch a few attacks. It is not immediately threatening since it lacks significant power without a boosting item, nor does it have dual STABs. Your opponent would not allow you to set up and likely attack it while it is using Tail Glow. It seems the OU metagame is too fast for it.
It would likely flourish in an environment without Talonflame, Landorus-I, Garchomp, or Genesect though.
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I played Manaphy for a while and I agree with everyone who says it's a little too slow and a little too frail this gen. It needs better resistances and, like, 5 more base speed. It's also extremely obvious that it's going to TG when it comes in so that makes it even easier to play around.
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