>Not Using LO
>Even if Not using LO ignoring the fact that even that replacement Greninja cannot OHKO the same (shitty niche) SpDef Gliscor without LO, despite having access to a more powerful Hydro Pump.
>+3 boost is apparently too much investment nowadays.
I don't even..... wat.
Even I agree manaphy has seen a nerf with the drizzle limitation, but this argument just takes the cake.
The Gliscor does have some merit since it does take advantage of the special attack nerf to survive an Ice Beam, an Ice Beam not Hidden Power Ice. The Gliscor could just retreat and come back on another Pokemon that isn't equipped to deal with it. It has Protect so it can buy a free turn of Poison Heal and it has a great speed tier for a defensive Pokemon. Gliscor is not like a Hippowdon at 15% health where almost any attack can kill it before it can successfully use Slack Off.
Actually, even with no boosting item, STAB Ice Beam OHKOs all Gliscor with a 103 252 SpAtk.
252 SpA
Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 436-516 (123.1 - 145.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 292-344 (82.4 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If he was using a neutral natured Gliscor as opposed to Calm, then I probably got a low role.
The nerf to Hydro Pump also means you cannot yield a guaranteed kill with a 32 SpAtk Rotom-W (even if your opponent mispredicted a Volt Switch and you get) and it outspeeds Rotom. There is an incentive for Gliscor users to actually invest to avoid KOs from common special attacks.
32 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 324-384 (91.5 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
For that particular battle, I U-turned out with a lead Landorus-T because I did not want it to setup sub and I thought Manaphy would at least force it out (or kill it) with Ice Beam.
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One of Manaphy supposed selling points to me was that it was as powerful as Life Orb 1+ Keldeo without Life Orb recoil so it could effectively prolong its sweep. While Manaphy becomes very powerful after a single boost, it does not have much immediate power. It is really slow since it requires a turn to be threaten while a Life Orb (or whatever item your opponent think it possesses) Keldeo (from Gen 5) is
immediately threatening and that immediate threat can buy it a Calm Mind boost.
More precisely to use a Gen 5 Timid Keldeo in comparison with Manaphy's Surf as an example, Timid Keldeo and Manaphy haves a Special Attack stats of 357 and 299. A 3+ Manaphy has stat of 747 and a Life Orb, Calm Mind or Rain-boosted Keldeo has an effective stat of 696 and correcting for the nerf to Surf (by multiplying by 19/18) yields 734. (A Hydro Pump has a corrected value of 926 by multiplying by 4/3) And let us not forget that it does not have to rely on the weak Icy Wind or base 70 Hidden Powers for additional coverage, and the Tail Glow boosted power applies to all its moves, not on just its water moves. And also consider that it has Leftovers which increases its survivability immensely.