You are saying that blace can learn hp, but it can only uses a few hps because of perfect evs, so no, it cant learn hp ground and hp fighting, you will have to double if u are playing vs a ttar. Anyway, the important point is the one sayed before, it cant revenge kill scarf tana, and bulu + kartana is so common right now.
Minor correction but yes Blacephalon can use HP Ground. An IV spread of 31/31/31/30/30/31 yields HP Ground and has 4 perfect IVs. HP Fighting however requires at least 4 even IVs, and since UBs are guaranteed to have at least 3 perfect IVs, they can never have an IV spread that yields HP Fighting.
I have to disagree with this. I think even B is a little too much for it.
I think Amoongus easily gets too heavily out-classed and checked at this point for it to go from B- to B or B+. It requires a lot of team support and it is easy to set up it is an AV set or it already putting an opponent to sleep ( you get the point ). It really should not be in the same tier as better mons like Mega Alakazam, Rotom-W and Weavile. I am glad it is B-, because it is much better than the mons in the C+ tier but it just has too much flaws. It is also difficult to put on a team.
Scarfed Gengar is not really a set, though. So yes, Blacephalon cannot outspeed scarfed Kartana, but Gengar also cannot, since it being scarfed is not a thing.
I have to disagree what you said. Jirachi has a really solid move pool indeed, and it is a really good tank in OU. You can run a plethora of sets in this thing but the best one is a bulky one. Although it hates Landorous-T without a burn, it none-of-the-less is still good. It is also a great wish giver despite it hating Pursuit.
Kartana runs Knock Off on almost every set nowadays, so this calc is basically completely irrelevant and it's not like Jirachi is doing anything back. The rest of this post isn't exactly stellar either. I understand that Jirachi is one of like 3 consistent Tapu Lele switch ins in the entire tier and can be an invaluable asset for stall teams due to its ability to provide Wish support and beat mons that stall normally folds in half to, but please use actual argumentation as to why Jirachi should move up.
Jirachi is outclassed by other sp def. pivots like Magearna, Bulu, and Tang, because of its inability to check Koko and Ash-Gren. Bulu and Tang have the ability to check Zygarde, and Mag isn't exactly set-up fodder, while Jirachi is tight on move slots and can't put Ice Punch or Icy Wind in its moveset without forgoing useful utility move in U-turn, Stealth Rocks, or Healing Wish.
You all made good points on why Jirachi should move. I think it should though. I wish I knew more about the competitive meta, I should really lurk in this thread even more instead of posting probably.
I have to agree with this nom. I literally have never seen this thing in OU play at all. There are much better ways to set up a stealth rock than this abomination. I agree that Suicide Landorous-T is much better than this. I mean so many things check it, like things faster than it and priority attackers. There is barely a reason to use this mon when it can not rapid spin and probably only use stealth rocks. Excadrill does outclass it indeed. Also stealth rocks basically ruins it's main gameplay in general ( focus sash ), and stealth rocks are very common. The worst part is, you usually want to use this in the first game because saving it for later is not a good idea as the opponent probably already uses the stealth rock and it gets even worst when your defogger faints. Good point, Azelf to the shadow realm.Oh, its that time of day. Time to nom some pokemon down to the Shadow Realm
From C- to the Unholy realm that is know to us as the Shadow Realm
Let's see, where do we begin. Oh yes, the playstle that notably featured Azelf who was a crucial membre is dead. Birdspam died about a couple months ago, so Azelf usefulness has plummeted. Oh, and the small niche only it had if you could call it that, has been taken over, ironically, by the best pokemon in the metagame, Landorus. Unlike Suicide Lead Landorus, Azelf doesn't do much of anything to defoggers after rocks has been put up. except Taunt slow ones, which I guess is cool and hit Ferrothorn if your opponenet is dumb enough to leave it in. If it lacks Hidden Power Ice, its also rocks bait for Landorus, and is Heatran bait as well. Unlike Landorus, who has an extremly powerful explosion, and has swords dance to potentially further the destruction of it, Azelf's explosion is pathetic. Much like itself. It's also outclassed by Excadrill, who can Stealth Rock on Sabeleye, and can Rapid Spin hazards away. Furthermore, HO has better non-rocks suicide leads that it wants to fit on their teams, who can also provide much more to the team, than just look pretty after Stealth Rocks.
Look, C- is pretty much the bottom of the barrel, but at least the pokemons in there have a small but useful niche that only they can fulfill. Azelf doesn't have this luxury at all, and its only notable quality over Landorus an Excadrill is Taunt and Fire Blast, but comes with the baggage of Azelf not providing any over utility after rocks. If someone can explain to me what niche it has other those two besides killing Ferrothorn, then I'll concede it has a niche and deserves to get ranked. But as of now, I think that Azelf deserves to get thrown into the fiery pits of doom known as the Shadow Realm
I completely agree with this nomination. Azelf has litterally no reason to be used at all in sm ou. Altaria, Scolipede, and Mega Aerodactyl are all pretty bad, but Mega Altaria is a decent defogger that can check a unique combination of threats. Mega Aerodactyly Is pretty annoying for offense and some balance teams to deal with, and Scolipede can pose a decent threat to offensive teams.Oh, its that time of day. Time to nom some pokemon down to the Shadow Realm
From C- to the Unholy realm that is know to us as the Shadow Realm
Let's see, where do we begin. Oh yes, the playstle that notably featured Azelf who was a crucial membre is dead. Birdspam died about a couple months ago, so Azelf usefulness has plummeted. Oh, and the small niche only it had if you could call it that, has been taken over, ironically, by the best pokemon in the metagame, Landorus. Unlike Suicide Lead Landorus, Azelf doesn't do much of anything to defoggers after rocks has been put up. except Taunt slow ones, which I guess is cool and hit Ferrothorn if your opponenet is dumb enough to leave it in. If it lacks Hidden Power Ice, its also rocks bait for Landorus, and is Heatran bait as well. Unlike Landorus, who has an extremly powerful explosion, and has swords dance to potentially further the destruction of it, Azelf's explosion is pathetic. Much like itself. It's also outclassed by Excadrill, who can Stealth Rock on Sabeleye, and can Rapid Spin hazards away. Furthermore, HO has better non-rocks suicide leads that it wants to fit on their teams, who can also provide much more to the team, than just look pretty after Stealth Rocks.
Look, C- is pretty much the bottom of the barrel, but at least the pokemons in there have a small but useful niche that only they can fulfill. Azelf doesn't have this luxury at all, and its only notable quality over Landorus an Excadrill is Taunt and Fire Blast, but comes with the baggage of Azelf not providing any over utility after rocks. If someone can explain to me what niche it has other those two besides killing Ferrothorn, then I'll concede it has a niche and deserves to get ranked. But as of now, I think that Azelf deserves to get thrown into the fiery pits of doom known as the Shadow Realm
I'd like to disagree with this nom, Azelf does have a few little techs which certainly make it at least C- level pick as a Suicide lead. It's faster than both Landorus and Excadrill to start and it has access to Taunt and Magic Coat, which means it does more to prevent hazards than Excadrill or Landorus who can only remove and not prevent. Also Magic Coat is great to avoid Taunt, as when it is bounced back your opponent will not be able to Taunt you again, this is something neither Landorus or Excadrill can do. It also has access to Skill Swap, which does in fact allow it to set-up on Sableye and Diance which you seem to have glossed over. Also at base 115 speed I'm pretty sure it outspeeds most, if not all viable defoggers and spinners, so it can in fact taunt them and keep Rocks up.Oh, its that time of day. Time to nom some pokemon down to the Shadow Realm
From C- to the Unholy realm that is know to us as the Shadow Realm
Let's see, where do we begin. Oh yes, the playstle that notably featured Azelf who was a crucial membre is dead. Birdspam died about a couple months ago, so Azelf usefulness has plummeted. Oh, and the small niche only it had if you could call it that, has been taken over, ironically, by the best pokemon in the metagame, Landorus. Unlike Suicide Lead Landorus, Azelf doesn't do much of anything to defoggers after rocks has been put up. except Taunt slow ones, which I guess is cool and hit Ferrothorn if your opponenet is dumb enough to leave it in. If it lacks Hidden Power Ice, its also rocks bait for Landorus, and is Heatran bait as well. Unlike Landorus, who has an extremly powerful explosion, and has swords dance to potentially further the destruction of it, Azelf's explosion is pathetic. Much like itself. It's also outclassed by Excadrill, who can Stealth Rock on Sabeleye, and can Rapid Spin hazards away. Furthermore, HO has better non-rocks suicide leads that it wants to fit on their teams, who can also provide much more to the team, than just look pretty after Stealth Rocks.
Look, C- is pretty much the bottom of the barrel, but at least the pokemons in there have a small but useful niche that only they can fulfill. Azelf doesn't have this luxury at all, and its only notable quality over Landorus an Excadrill is Taunt and Fire Blast, but comes with the baggage of Azelf not providing any over utility after rocks. If someone can explain to me what niche it has other those two besides killing Ferrothorn, then I'll concede it has a niche and deserves to get ranked. But as of now, I think that Azelf deserves to get thrown into the fiery pits of doom known as the Shadow Realm
Azelf is faster than both Landorus and Excadrill so the point faster attackers and priority beats it is moot because this applies to them moreso. Also you will ALWAYS lead with Azelf, so you don't have to worry about your sash being broken by rocks. Again it can be useful to keep, gaining momentum with death fodder rather than letting frail HO attackers take a hit is very very useful, hence why it fulfills the role of Suicide lead.
Thanks for responding to my post, I'm glad you reminded me of some of Azelf's techs that I forgot. But even then, I still think Azelf should get unranked. I just think it gets wholly outclassed by Landorus in the suicide lead department and I think Azelf should just go down for that alone.
Also another small note is that Tapu Koko rarely run taunt anymore and anything that commonly runs taunt with higher base speed is almost non existent in ou rn
I agree entirely. Regardless of Azelf's better offensive utility and its access to a couple of cool niche moves, it just isn't viable and that's reflected in its near complete absence from the OU meta. The "well its good for birdspam/it's a good suicide lead" argument is silly because:
I'm really struggling with how taking one hit from non Z-move SD Kartana is a plus - that set doesn't really exist. Jirachi has very little role in the metagame, it's an amazing Lele/Magearna check but that's really about it. It gives a ton of stuff free switch ins, and is super susceptible to knock off, spikes, rocky helmet / iron barbs, etc. chip damage. I agree with the other guy that the only real niche of Jirachi is that it is arguably the best Lele check for stall - however, even in that scenario it doesn't offer much else that other Lele answers do, and that often gives them the edge in teambuilding. Jirachi is also a good answer to Magearna, but one must take into account that gear can just volt switch on it most of the time - it is a good answer to offensive sets, but not a surefire counter by a long shot.
I disagree with your disagreement :P
Alas, but you will be hurt. While you are right that all those pokemons are on the rise, to put Ash-Greninja down to A would be a huge mistake. For one thing, spikes are still a huge asset to it, and thanks to them, they can help ease troubles with Toxapex and Bulu. Kartana can only revenge kill non-Water Shuriken locked Ash-ninja, and none of those defoggers you listed one v one Greninja. But you are right that all those hurt Ash-Greninja, but the main reason why I disagree is that for the most part. Ash-Ninja is miles ahead of the pokemon currently residing in A. In every match-up it goes into, it will always make an impact, whether by beating pokemons with high-powered Hydro-Pumps and Dark Pulses, or laying Spikes to help out teammates, to revenge killing with its high speed and Water-Shuriken, to just threatening opposing pokemon. No other pokemon in A can claim to have these effects over the course of the battle. While none of the pokemon in A are match-up based, they all tend to have one or more games in which they have no use at all. Ash-Greninja doesn't have this problem thanks to qualities I just listed. For what its worth, Ash-Greninja is still miles ahead of the competition of A, even though its viability is slightly hurt by all the influx of the counter-measures you just put up.
While I understand your point my vote would go to
