Pokémon Tapu Koko

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Question about Mixed set Hidden Power choice.

I've seen Ice mainly (mostly in Timid sets), some Fire, and even the occasional water. What's the best combination of moves (including Hidden Power) for a Naive (or Hasty) mixed set? I haven't seen a consensus. HP Ice is standard coverage, HP Fire appears to be for grass types (Brave Bird can cover this?), and HP Water appears to be only for Alolan Marowak (can Brave Bird/Wild Charge do the job?).

Thanks again!
 

Run

Poster of the Month
Ok, refined the Tapunium Koko set.

"Tapunium Koko"
Tapu Koko @ Tapunium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Wild Charge
- Brave Bird
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Nature's Madness

Tapu Koko is probably the only really good Nature's Madness user. While it may seem like an un-intuitive move for a sweeper to have, it actually serves a few purposes. Even without Tapunium-Z it makes a great scouting move, to soften up switch-in's and counters. If you know your damage calcs, you can just about 2HKO any switch in with NM or NM-Z plus one of its standard attacks. Think about it this way, any Wall that tries to come in and shut you down, you only need to be able to do 25-31% to it to KO. And 130 base speed with a +speed nature means you are definitely getting your attack in on even other fast switch-ins that try to take advantage of absorbing electric attacks with ground. Just bewear (pun) for Choice Scarf users.

Some calcs vs common switch-ins:
252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield in Electric Terrain: 76-90 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 112-136 (61.8 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
4 SpA Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 100-120 (54.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Electric Terrain: 138-163 (38.6 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tapu Koko Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 76-90 (41 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tapu Koko Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 112-132 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


While those numbers don't look initially very impressive, After a Nature's Madness or Guardian of Alola when the switch-in is expecting a resisted hit, you now outspeed and OHKO, removing Tapu Koko's primary counter. A lot of these threats don't even need Z-Boosted Nature's Madness, so you can even save it for a final gambit for later in the match.

This brings me to the second use for Nature's Madness: recoil reduction. In the scenarios above, you are doing 50-75% off the bat meaning your Wild Charge/Brave Bird recoil isn't taking nearly the same toll on your sweeper as it would have otherwise. And given Koko is actually not super frail, you can potentially survive a hit and do it again making this a 2-1 or 3-1 mon. On less-threatening opponents that you can't OHKO anyway, Nature's Madness followed by a standard attack again mitigates the toll sweeping takes on Tapu Koko.

And lastly, if you are on your last legs, and you don't have a switch-in for the current threat, Nature's Madness or Guardian of Alola on your way out means Tapu Koko won't ever be just a sacrifice -mon.

Mamoswine and Mudsdale are great offensive partners for Tapu Koko, ignoring electirc attacks your opponent might throw out to take advantage of your electric terrain and have the bulk and prowess to finish off mons that take Koko down after Nature's Madness. Priority users also do a great job as they perform best taking out already weakened mons. Pyukumuku is also a fantastic partner for Koko due to Soak and a slow baton pass, creating weaknesses which will invoke switches once you bring Koko in.
 
Ok, refined the Tapunium Koko set.

"Tapunium Koko"
Tapu Koko @ Tapunium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Wild Charge
- Brave Bird
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Nature's Madness

Tapu Koko is probably the only really good Nature's Madness user. While it may seem like an un-intuitive move for a sweeper to have, it actually serves a few purposes. Even without Tapunium-Z it makes a great scouting move, to soften up switch-in's and counters. If you know your damage calcs, you can just about 2HKO any switch in with NM or NM-Z plus one of its standard attacks. Think about it this way, any Wall that tries to come in and shut you down, you only need to be able to do 25-31% to it to KO. And 130 base speed with a +speed nature means you are definitely getting your attack in on even other fast switch-ins that try to take advantage of absorbing electric attacks with ground. Just bewear (pun) for Choice Scarf users.

Some calcs vs common switch-ins:
252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield in Electric Terrain: 76-90 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 112-136 (61.8 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
4 SpA Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 100-120 (54.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Electric Terrain: 138-163 (38.6 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tapu Koko Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 76-90 (41 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tapu Koko Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 112-132 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


While those numbers don't look initially very impressive, After a Nature's Madness or Guardian of Alola when the switch-in is expecting a resisted hit, you now outspeed and OHKO, removing Tapu Koko's primary counter. A lot of these threats don't even need Z-Boosted Nature's Madness, so you can even save it for a final gambit for later in the match.

This brings me to the second use for Nature's Madness: recoil reduction. In the scenarios above, you are doing 50-75% off the bat meaning your Wild Charge/Brave Bird recoil isn't taking nearly the same toll on your sweeper as it would have otherwise. And given Koko is actually not super frail, you can potentially survive a hit and do it again making this a 2-1 or 3-1 mon. On less-threatening opponents that you can't OHKO anyway, Nature's Madness followed by a standard attack again mitigates the toll sweeping takes on Tapu Koko.

And lastly, if you are on your last legs, and you don't have a switch-in for the current threat, Nature's Madness or Guardian of Alola on your way out means Tapu Koko won't ever be just a sacrifice -mon.

Mamoswine and Mudsdale are great offensive partners for Tapu Koko, ignoring electirc attacks your opponent might throw out to take advantage of your electric terrain and have the bulk and prowess to finish off mons that take Koko down after Nature's Madness. Priority users also do a great job as they perform best taking out already weakened mons. Pyukumuku is also a fantastic partner for Koko due to Soak and a slow baton pass, creating weaknesses which will invoke switches once you bring Koko in.
I LOVE this. I love unique attacks and it has always disappointed me how Nature's Madness and the Z-move were being ignored. With that said, can you weigh in on the Hasty/Naive debate? I'm very torn. What made you chose Hasty?

Thanks in advance!
 

Run

Poster of the Month
I chose hasty for consistency. As a sweeper I'm not spending time thinking about what kind of hits I want to stay in and tank. While Naive is technically a lower BST drop, it means the hits i do take on the special side hurt a lot more than the physical ones. Ultimately, it doesn't matter THAT much. But I went with Hasty due to it giving Koko virtually equal bulk on the special and physical sides. I can see an argument where you expect to see more physical counters (most every switch-in here is physical) but I don't think the nature is turning any 1HKOs into 2HKOs or 2HKOs into 3HKOs, especially if im using recoil moves to begin with. Granted, I haven't run the defensive calcs. That's just my reasoning. Also, the point of this set is to very specifically kill your counters before they attack.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
Jesus, I was thinking of using a special tapu koko with a zap plate or something, then I decided to check just how good he could be at defending himself against a couple of his potential "checks" then I noticed just how much this thing needed a life orb...
252 SpA Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 244-288 (68.3 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 242-288 (67.7 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 256-304 (80 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 256-304 (84.7 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 272-320 (78.1 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Those were with timid natures, mind you. I just think it's important to run timid on him if you're using only special moves

Then I tried life orb and obviously, this is what happened:
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 315-374 (88.2 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 317-374 (88.7 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 333-395 (104 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 354-416 (101.7 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In summary... I am definitely smacking a life orb on Cocoa (my tapu's nickname :3), it just seems too risky to do otherwise...
Unless, idk, you're going for a choice specs or something.
 

Chou Toshio

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I LOVE this. I love unique attacks and it has always disappointed me how Nature's Madness and the Z-move were being ignored. With that said, can you weigh in on the Hasty/Naive debate? I'm very torn. What made you chose Hasty?

Thanks in advance!
Hasty is probably better in the current meta, if only because it gives you 185 DEF, 186 SDEF, which means that Genesect is going to get the attack boost, not the sATK boost, which is a little bit less dangerous. Koko's typing also makes a non-ATK boosted U-turn a lot less useful to the opponent.
 
It seems like Hasty mixed set looks best, but I still feel like that just wastes that awesome Attack stat. Obviously you guys already talked about it, but is Adamant, 252/252/4HP with Wild Charge, Brave Bird, Uturn and Roost not viable?

252+ Atk Life Orb Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 218-260 (65.2 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO without terrain.
252+ Atk Life Orb Tapu Koko Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 242-286 (66.6 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Obviously you're walled by Hippo or Garchomp, but you don't want to be around them anyway and will outspeed with a Uturn that is more than just momentum or chip damage - right around 20% on it.

I'm mostly just concerned because I've only got one Tapu Koko to cacth and I don't wanna screw it up! I feel like this set certainly puts in solid work, but is the main drawback the mostly poor coverage? It just seems anyone who counters him, he wouldn't want to be around anyway.
 

Ema Skye

Work!
Why do so many prefer Timid over Modest on this speed demon? He's already insanely fast for an Alolan Poke.
The speed tier is important and is a large portion of why it's so good.

Modest base 130 will lose to everything base 115 or faster. This includes Zygarde 10%, Starmie, Tornadus-T, Dugtrio and Greninja, which Tapu Koko all beats and, similarity, all of them have ways to beat Koko. It's to your advantage to outspeed and KO those threads (or escaping Dugtrio with U-Turn in its case).
 
It seems like Hasty mixed set looks best, but I still feel like that just wastes that awesome Attack stat. Obviously you guys already talked about it, but is Adamant, 252/252/4HP with Wild Charge, Brave Bird, Uturn and Roost not viable?

252+ Atk Life Orb Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 218-260 (65.2 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO without terrain.
252+ Atk Life Orb Tapu Koko Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 242-286 (66.6 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Obviously you're walled by Hippo or Garchomp, but you don't want to be around them anyway and will outspeed with a Uturn that is more than just momentum or chip damage - right around 20% on it.

I'm mostly just concerned because I've only got one Tapu Koko to cacth and I don't wanna screw it up! I feel like this set certainly puts in solid work, but is the main drawback the mostly poor coverage? It just seems anyone who counters him, he wouldn't want to be around anyway.
Does Adamant nab any notable KOs that Jolly wouldn't? It seems like a high price to pay to not be able to take out 115s like Greninja and Tornadus.
 
Does Adamant nab any notable KOs that Jolly wouldn't? It seems like a high price to pay to not be able to take out 115s like Greninja and Tornadus.
Good question, I'll run some damage calcs on that later. I always forget the 115s can out run him if not careful.
 

bludz

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Hasty is probably better in the current meta, if only because it gives you 185 DEF, 186 SDEF, which means that Genesect is going to get the attack boost, not the sATK boost, which is a little bit less dangerous. Koko's typing also makes a non-ATK boosted U-turn a lot less useful to the opponent.
I think Atk boosted Genesect is definitely a bigger threat to Tapu Koko than SpA boosted. Scarf sets can outspeed and Iron Head and Band gets a boost to ESpeed. A boosted U-turn is also just dangerous if you choose to switch out fearing one of the above scenarios.

I would also run Naive just to tank priority attacks better, since Tapu Koko is often a target of priority attacks due to its speed tier.
 
Sorry for sounding stupid, but how can I try to aim for the hidden power I want on koko? Is it just by resetting, cuz that would be a pain. Haven't played competitive since gen 3, but am looking to get back into it.
 
Sorry for sounding stupid, but how can I try to aim for the hidden power I want on koko? Is it just by resetting, cuz that would be a pain. Haven't played competitive since gen 3, but am looking to get back into it.
As JojoX200 said, you need to soft-reset. It is a pain, but it's worth it. Due to how determining HP type works some types are rarer than others due to the change to legendaries and Pokemon that can't breed having a guaranteed three perfect IVs, so some Hidden Power combinations are impossible. For the Hidden Power types listed in the OP, for example:

HP Fire (Half of the spreads are possible with three perfect IVs and only with three)
E O E E O E (Not possible for a legendary)
O O E E O E
E E O E O E (Not possible for a legendary)
O E O E O E

HP Ice (All possible with three, four, or five perfect IVs)
O O O O O E
E E E O O O
O E E O O O
E O E O O O
 
Could Tapu Koko pull off a Jolly or Adamant Nature? It's base Attack stat is pretty high and could be taken advantage of rather well.
 
Could Tapu Koko pull off a Jolly or Adamant Nature? It's base Attack stat is pretty high and could be taken advantage of rather well.
the most damaging physical moves are Brave Bird and Wild Charge, and the types cover Flying, Steel, Bug and Electric
 
Could Tapu Koko pull off a Jolly or Adamant Nature? It's base Attack stat is pretty high and could be taken advantage of rather well.
I think it has just enough to do a Physical set(with the bonus of squeezing Roost in without losing coverage). I'd use Jolly because of all the speed tiers. Altough, given there is not much I can think of between 125 and 130, you could take of some Speed EVs.
 
You could try going with Choice Scarf. That way you'll be able to hit hard AND outspeed anything that's not Scarfed Pheromosa and/or Greninja.
So maybe something like:

Tapu Koko @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 23 Atk / 17 SpD / 12 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Dazzling Gleam
- Volt Switch / U-turn

I'm planning on bottle capping spd and and speed anyway, these are just the IVs I got.
 
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I'm not too familiar with the meta yet, but among HP ice, fire, and water, what does each one generally cover against?
Currently SR'ing for Hidden Power
 
I'm not too familiar with the meta yet, but among HP ice, fire, and water, what does each one generally cover against?
Currently SR'ing for Hidden Power
Type wise:

Ice is SE against dragons (redundant) and I think Bug and Grass. There are Bug-types that are also Poison-types but I don't think they are commonly used.
Fire gets the most mileage since Steel-types are weak against it (which is a good thing because fairies hate steel-types). It's also good against Grass and Ice-types. As well as Bug (but again i don't know if Ariados and the like are commonly used)
Water on the other hand would be useful on Fire-types and Ground-types.

It would depend on your team and if they can handle Steel-types or Earthquakes. If they can handle steel, go for Water, if they can defeat Ground-types use Fire. But I'd will also say a second opinion is needed. As I don't think I'm able to explain the depths of coverage against specific threats.
 

Ema Skye

Work!
I'm not too familiar with the meta yet, but among HP ice, fire, and water, what does each one generally cover against?
Currently SR'ing for Hidden Power
Ice without question.

It gives you some way of beating the bulky grounds, as they're usually 4x weak to Ice (Chomp, Lando, Gliscor).

There could be merit in running Fire but you only would use it for Ferrothorn and Excadrill as Thunderbolt hits hard enough as is.
 
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