Tried this pre dlc, with payback and tera dark you 2hko dengo, and you honestly hard counter samu-h pretty well, outside of that, it's one of the very few hazard removers that is somehow even worse than the king of c-, corviknight
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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Can we agree to make a standardized baseline for stats? Because I have seen way too many haphazardly use wording that continually contradicts itself, especially around speed.>Base 40 speed
>not slow
(For note, I treat 80 as the general average for stats)
the average ou stat spread, rounded, is 93/98/90/89/88/87. so i think it's practical to treat 90 as average, except for attack, where 100 is average
I mean, there's a lot of variables there, such as the insanely min-maxed stats of a lot of Gen IX mons. I think 80 is safer for everyone's collective sanity.
i thought of that and took the medians too, because that tends to work better as a representation of the population when there are massive outliers, and it turns out they're 88/100/90/95/85/91, which is pretty similar to the averages. and for the record, gen 9's newcomers aren't really that minmaxed in terms of base stats. gen 7 was way worse with that
How is Gen 7 way worse with minmaxing when we have stuff like Ting-Lu (giga minmaxed), Dondozo, Clodsire, Great Tusk, Roaring Moon, Ursaluna, Iron Hands, and Sneasler in Gen 9?
the ultra beasts were way more minmaxed than any of those
anyway, this is my personal opinion the official, objective metric for describing a mon's stats in an ou-based meta. for speed, i usually use the designated speed tiers instead, but for everything else, this is where my brain goes when i see the numbers:
0-40: lmao
50-59: terrible
60-69: bad
70-79: meh
80-89: below-average
90: average
91-100: above-average
101-110: solid
111-120: good
121-130: great
131-140: excellent
141-150: superb
151-179: insane
180-255: what the fuck dude
feel free to use this metric for analysis, c&c, and anything else you have in mind
note that, because hp is calculated differently from other stats, this metric is not useful for describing bulk (i.e. the combination of hp and one or more defensive stat)
0-40: lmao
50-59: terrible
60-69: bad
70-79: meh
80-89: below-average
90: average
91-100: above-average
101-110: solid
111-120: good
121-130: great
131-140: excellent
141-150: superb
151-179: insane
180-255: what the fuck dude
feel free to use this metric for analysis, c&c, and anything else you have in mind
note that, because hp is calculated differently from other stats, this metric is not useful for describing bulk (i.e. the combination of hp and one or more defensive stat)
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I guess you are right in a sense that Gen 7's UBs had lower lows and higher highs, but Gen 9 also has a lot of minmaxing, and when you stuff stats into HP, there's more leftover into other stats as well, which is shown by how Wo-Chien (let's forget about the typing for a moment) with its more balanced stats is trash while Ting-Lu is top tier. Gen 9 also has a larger group of Pokemon with high stats along with a low stat.
I just wanna point out something quick, the 0-59 range, can potentially be real fucking good in trick room, and for that reason, I would argue that 60-69 range is the worst range of speed possible, too fast for tr and too slow to hold a scarf or being a speed check, of course there are more things to consider, but its just food for though
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this cant be serious. im not even going to bother arguing this one because its either a troll or a completely unhinged take
but to answer this, gen 7 introduced quite a few notable minmaxxed pokemon (toxapex toxapex toxpaex) but the UBs in particular are substantially more minmaxxed than most anything else this gen. like kartana alone is more minmaxxed than any pokemon mentioned here
this is true, which is why i mentioned that speed tiers are better to use as a metric for speed—not just because of trick room, but also for using slow pivoting moves, slow defensive mons that spam recovery, and other scenarios where you generally want to move last
if we were to be really pedantic, the most minmaxed pokémon ever is when they brought beedrill's sp. atk down to 15 so mega beedrill could be even remotely usable with only +100 bst to base beedrill, and that was gen 6. but metagame-wise i think the ultra beasts had more egregious cases of minmaxing (is pheromosa Ever not going to be uber??), even if the gen 9 additions are quite evidently causing more relative mayhem for a bunch of other reasons
Reminds me of how you’re missing your mind goblin.
y'know what, no, i'm gonna take issue with this one because empoleon has a worse version of wo-chien's stat spread but with some spa added, and that thing is a banger in this meta. stats have nothing to do with why wo-chien is where it is. it's the garbage typing, the lack of recovery, and its general dearth of progress-making tools besides knock off
Aside from the shitposting though, you know a metagame ain’t good when there’s more people discussing the viability of Forretress, reworking the Sleep clause and adding a Freeze clause and twitter arguing/shitposting than actual productive metagame discussion. Can’t wait for the Roaring Moon suspect to be over so we can move ahead with things.
here's a tip: when you craft an insult on this site, try keeping your jabs relevant to the topic, exclusively targeting the ideas instead of the people behind them, and actually being funny. you might need to look up what "funny" means since your profile pic is the rock eyebrow meme and your username is "epic gamer god 69", neither of which are even funny ironically anymore, but you should be able to grasp what "relevant" means: don't randomly try to insert 2edgy4me absentee-father jokes about someone you have no information on. also, again, don't actually directly insult people. attacking their ideas is allowed, implied insults are a gray area, but direct and explicit insults against people are a big no-no (and i admit, i'm guilty of not always practicing what i preach, but that doesn't make the advice bad). hopefully this can help you with future toxicity
Unfortunately we're in it for the long haul until DLC2. I do have faith that this meta will able to be not-shit, but a lot of that is contingent on the playerbase making the correct decisions. (From what it looks like, there are fewer returning mons that will shake up the meta in DLC2 the way Gliscor/Alolatales/Bee/etc did, but we don't know if there will be a Ultra Space/Dynamax Adventures mechanic yet either) For all the broken nonsense gen 9 did introduce some interesting mons that play in a quite unique way
the scary part is, we don't know that. even with the leaks showing what will return, there's no data on what else will end up with a movepool buff, a random ability change/addition, or something else with the potential to disrupt the meta in a big way. all the way up to the day of the dlc, very few people expected gliscor to get spikes and the only discussion about it was "idk it'll probably take over lando's defensive roles maybe". now we're at a point where it's forced basically the entire top half of the gen 7-8 vr into uu almost singlehandedly. we have no idea what the next gliscor could be
That is fair, although Gliscor was already a meta-defining mon in previous generations, and it'd still probably be A/A+ without spikes.
Off the top of my head, the only similar mons to be returning during DLC2 are Excadrill, Blaziken, Skarmory, and maybe Swampert (funnily enough two of those were banned in early BW).
Dipplin
If Excadrill were to get Ice Spinner, it'd have an easier time beating mons such as Great Tusk and shredding Gliscor to pieces. Given how liberally Gamefreak has given Ice Spinner out to old Pokemon, I could see Excadrill being an excellent user of Ice Spinner, although it would come at the cost of dropping Rapid Spin or Iron Head on SD sets. Thus, if there's any returning Pokemon that could get a noticeable buff in Indigo Disk, it would be Excadrill.
I'm just imagining that excadrill will get spikes when it returns, which idk the impact will be but i'm scared. A pokemon with that much attacking power that can also make progress for the team, now that's terrifying.
Also serperior will be amazing with the addition of tera to it's kit.
Also serperior will be amazing with the addition of tera to it's kit.
i mean, the dipplin evo isn't "hypothesized". it can use eviolite. it's been widely publicized enough that if it were a mistake it would've been patched out in 2.0.2. dipplin definitely, unequivocally has an evolution coming in dlc2 and that doesn't even require a spoiler tag
as for the things others have said:
excadrill definitely has a non-zero probability of gaining spikes and ice spinner, which would likely be huge for it. this might affect tyranitar's usage enough to make sand a playstyle again, in which case we'll also be seeing more of garganacl, rockpon, and whatever other sand abusers people can find
serperior is going to be a fucking powerhouse with tera, especially if the hazards situation remains unchanged because it'll be the premier anti-webs mon. it really doesn't need anything besides tera fire to run roughshod over the tier, especially with heatran being so much less common
if skarmory keeps roost, it's likely to replace non-defog corv entirely because it has a way stronger body press and also spikes. if it keeps defog, it's also likely to eat a chunk into corv's defog usage, which is already dwindling. if it loses roost, well, to nubl it goes
serperior is going to be a fucking powerhouse with tera, especially if the hazards situation remains unchanged because it'll be the premier anti-webs mon. it really doesn't need anything besides tera fire to run roughshod over the tier, especially with heatran being so much less common
if skarmory keeps roost, it's likely to replace non-defog corv entirely because it has a way stronger body press and also spikes. if it keeps defog, it's also likely to eat a chunk into corv's defog usage, which is already dwindling. if it loses roost, well, to nubl it goes
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