Resource SV Doubles OU Viability Rankings

[xqiht]

5 -> 4
Lilligant Hisui has good speed and rich moves, and on sunny days, he can use After You to get Torkoal to use Eruption first. He can also learn encore and sleep power to block opponents. Solar Blade can no charge in sunlight, Close Combat can effectively hurt heart. I think this is an undervalued Pokemon

replay on osdt
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1889800070-iazv73gapsdkxq8qskqr8t5ruefjg97pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1889795102-191skypzhjye6fsiqycyydwibmcz8xupw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1918438769-4s1kz870dtobu3m9slww37hfd5hjze3pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-705223
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-706971
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1917985821

 

[Schister]

2 -> 1
Nominating rilla for a tier 1 slot once again, as it has only aged better with time since my last post. Rillaboom has boasted the second highest userate of any pokemon every single week of OSDT ever since the Ursaluna ban, never dipping under a rather absurd 40% use rate and always having a positive winrate that exceeds Queen 's every single week as well. Rillaboom absolutely defines the metagame as the central member of the prevailing bulky balance archetype permeating DOU right now. It's role compression and near monopoly to set beneficial terrain is simply unmatched in terms of team supporting capabilities, and it's wood hammer even allows it to act as a solid threat/breaker in its own right. It's a match made in heaven with , another top 5 userate mon of late, further compressing utility with it's rocks, intimidate and own u-turning to form an extremely durable and effective core that can enable teams to reposition themselves better than any other in the tier generating game winning momentum with free turns provided. It's seen a rise in use on rain teams lately as its pivoting abilities are greatly appreciated on that archetype to bring win conditions like and in and out of play safely, absorbing potential spores from the otherwise annoying and wood hammers from itself for such teams as well. Rillaboom is also useful on Hazards Stack teams, which again just appreciate the longevity and positioning assistance that the mon provides so exceptionally well.

With Rillaboom being used on almost half the teams in the tier, both on High ladder and in tournament play, on every range of team archetype from the common bulky balance to the more offensively inclined rain and sun teams, to the more recent hazards stack tempo teams and just about everything in between, Rillaboom is clearly a pokemon whose capabilities are appreciated on any team style in the tier right now, and very clearly deserving of Tier 1 status in my eyes.

T5 ->T4
Scizor's seen a rise in recent weeks in OSDT as a a pokemon blessed with a great typing into the current metagame, its bullet punch being one of the biggest threats to T1 in the game, and its bug stab being one of the few ways to OHKO any set around.The prevalence of fire types in the tier would harm it a good bit, especially considering they also use their type against the aforementioned mons, but Tera water is a blessing for scizor, enabling it to stick around and often times click swords dance and become a priority spamming threat much like a . Still Scizor's primary selling point is it's ability to massively threaten the two tier 1s in the format, throwing a wrench in Rillaboom's positional capabilities by very often forcing it to switch out, which scizor itself will promptly U-turn into and, being slower, will likely maintain an advantageous position for the scizor player every time this interaction occurs, as can be seen in this game. Scizor is very much at home on Hazards Pivot teams where it can act as a threat while leveraging its excellent typing against many would-be problems for such a style of team like Flutter mane and create much needed breathing room for the team to set up hazards with it's u-turns. Overall a solid addition on these styles of teams with limited but valid applications on other teams thanks to its blessed typing and access to useful momentum-grabbing tools into the metagame.

T5 -> UR
The mouse has no real viable niche in DOU, outclassed as a redirector by almost every other option, unable to act as a threat when two of the absolute biggest threats in the tier are ghost types, unable to outspeed the most important speedsters, invalidating it's only above-average stat, and just generally not having solid enough other niches to find a spot on any type of team. It lost every team it was played in OSDT (grantedit was only used 5 times) and while having the potential to use a very good movepool simply lacks the power to use it in any meaningful capacity in this tier.

T3 -> T4
Other noms have called for it to drop, albeit a bit harsher than to just T4. Sun is having a bit of an identity crisis right now, grappling with whether to wantsto play a balanced offense style with tusk and rillaboom on some teams, hazards offense with lando/kleavor on others, Speed Control offense with psyspam and Lillikoal dominating two ends of the speed spectrum, or pre-home style Hyperoffense. Wake is certainly a good mon on sun teams as far as offensive coverage and damage output is concerned, but it's main typing advantage in blocking fire and water attacks has been almost entirely usurped by Volcanion in the metagame while flutter really exploits its dragon typing.

T4 -> T3
As the only viable terrain setter not named Rillaboom, Indeedee can form an important function on many styles of offense teams trying to overthrow many of the bulkier teams relying on rillaboom and priority attacks from Gambit, Pala, and fake outs to deal with faster teams. It's typing and Follow me allow it to be one of the best ways to block from sweeping a team late game and in general is annoying to deal with next to offensive threats while still being a tried and true enabler of and trick room as a whole.

 

[ratpacker]

UR -> T4

Uxie provides an alternative to Cresselia as a Trick Room setter with similar bulk and access to Encore to patch Cresselia's biggest weakness as the number one setup fodder Pokemon in the tier. Mystical Power allows Uxie to become an endgame threat if left unchecked.

Set

Uxie @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 140 SpA / 100 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Encore
- Mystical Power
- Dazzling Gleam

Good teammates would be Amoonguss for recovery and Iron Hands for a Dark Pokemon check.

It received usage in late OSDT rounds by other strong players through extreme coercion, boosting it to a 100% winrate.
Ratpacker vs JRL
Givrix vs Robjr
Mishimono vs Fey

 

[bagel]

T4 -> T3

Basically an alternative to Cresselia that can also shut down what Cresselia and its teammates want to do. Even though it lost Fake Out, its still pretty flexible in what it can do. Access to all hazards, Snarl + Will O' Wisp, Pollen Puff, Tailwind / Trick Room, Encore and Taunt let if fill many different utility roles depending on what its teammates need from it. Safety Goggles, Covert Cloak, and Sitrus Berry all help its consistency a lot in different ways. Mew does best against all the bulky setup-oriented teams that run around, but it can struggle into more hyper-offense oriented structures.

 

[zoe]

3 -> 5

Has extremely strong competition as a special attacker on sun with Flutter Mane and Chi-Yu taking up those slots, but even without that it still struggles. Hydro Steam isn't as appealing as an attack as it was previously, and being forced to Draco Meteor against Pokemon like Volcanion, Amoonguss, and Tera Grass Heatran (yes im counting this, its too common not to imo) can potentially put its team on the backfoot due to how important momentum can be for sun teams. However the worst thing about Walking Wake is how, even under sun, its completely halted offensively by Flutter Mane, which still outspeeds Walking Wake due to its own Protosynthesis and easily OHKOs it. While you'd think its Draco Meteors could be valuable due to hitting otherwise annoying Pokemon for sun teams, Chi-Yu and Lilligant-H are able to deal enough damage to those same Pokemon that they can be broken through by their partners, while also just being better Pokemon. There's little reason to use wake on a structure that's as stretched for slots as sun is.

4 -> 3

Still great role compression, Will-o-Wisp is a good move, Pollen Puff on a decently speedy Pokemon is REALLY nice for balance-esque structures, tons of other useful options like Tailwind, Stealth Rocks, Taunt, Snarl, random coverage moves, etc. I can go on. It's not incredible at anything in particular, but it functions similarly to how it did in SS as a good all around glue mon, just more restricted in its options than it was prior.

5 -> 4

Lilligant-H's existence makes sun so much better than it would be otherwise. Two strong STAB moves in Close Combat and Solar Blade give it significant offensive pressure against Volcanion, Heatran, Palafin, Chien-Pao, etc while being decently fast, even without Chlorophyll. After You is REALLY strong for sun due to it allowing Torkoal to be threatening offensively (and make up for Lilligant's lack of spread moves), setting Trick Room immediately on some structures, and just being an all around good support move. Sleep is also broken if you can fit it, but Sleep Powder is droppable imo. It has really glaring issues when it comes to its defensive profile (it dies to most strong hits in one iirc), has a weakness to priority, and is only able to be used on sun but its really good on sun so I think it warrants tier 4.

5 -> 4

Thunder Wave is a better move than it was in the past two generations due to Misty Terrain being non-existent, so Thundurus can reliably spread paralysis to a significant portion of the offensive meta such as Flutter Mane and Basculegion-F, making them considerably easier to handle. It functions similarly to Tornadus in a way in that both have the ability to provide speed control immediately, although paralysis being effectively permanent, albeit only affecting a single Pokemon, makes it more useful for bulkier teams that can easily go past the 4 turn limit of Tailwind and may only need one or two Pokemon slowed down. Thundurus also threatening common Pokemon like Palafin, Volcanion, and Tornadus with Thunderbolt or Wildbolt Storm is also useful, and it has other options such as Taunt (I'd probably always run this though tbh), Volt Switch, and Scary Face depending on what its team needs. It does have very some poor matchups into Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Iron Hands, and Landorus-Therian that hurt it considerably, but its effectiveness in its (albeit somewhat narrow) role is good enough to warrant it being Tier 4.

5 -> UR

Too slow and too frail to justify it being used, its extremely poor bulk and lackluster defensive typing leaves it exposed to most of the priority moves in the tier, even boosted Kingambit Sucker Punch, while most faster attackers, mainly Flutter Mane and Chien-Pao, can still threaten to OHKO or deal significant damage to it, and this isn't even considering Enamorus against any speed control. Earth Power and Contrary Superpower aren't enough to justify the issues outlined above, and you're better off using Flutter Mane most of the time.

5 -> UR

It has 4 total uses across the entirety of OSDT so far, it can technically do stuff on paper (redirecting LR) but its obviously not getting used and its just a worse Amoonguss 99.9% of the time.

2 -> 1

I disagree with this nom not because of Rillaboom itself, but Flutter Mane is honestly just a tier above everything else, its usage is absurd at 57%, which is nearly 20% above Rillaboom's which is second. You need a really good reason to NOT use Flutter due to how good it is offensively and how self-reliant it is, and with support (Chi-Yu, sun) it gets even better offensively to levels of absurdity. Nothing is close to Flutter Mane in usage and pure effectiveness imo, and the VR should be reflective of that. If there was something to indicate how Flutter is a step above the rest of tier 1, i'd like Rillaboom+some others to 1, but as it stands right now I'd prefer Flutter to be the only t1.
(good nom tho ftr)

 

[qsns]

3 -> 2

Was just straight up wrong on this one. I've tried playing with better sets and it's able to stay on the field a lot longer. Better sets mostly just means "stealing the EVs from VGC":

Chi-Yu @ Assault Vest / Sitrus Berry / Choice Specs / probably Goggles but I haven't tried it
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost / Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Dark Pulse
+ 2, including Overheat Snarl Tera Blast Nasty Plot or Protect

Max HP on Chi-yu gives this 'mon so many more opportunities to come in and click the stupid moves, thanks to its low 55 base HP being increased by a flat amount. Its Special Defense is genuinely impressive given this, and it can trade very well with Flutter Mane, Tornadus, and often even the other Fire-types despite their super-effective coverage. Max speed outspeeds Timid Glimmora by 1 point, but this can be cut down to whichever bulk benchmarks you want to further hit. Chi-Yu usage among top players has also increased recently, with Sun seeing somewhat of a renaissance as well as the Chi-Yu Indeedee archetype being piloted successfully for many rounds in OSDT by Nido-Rus. I think this is as much a defining Fire-type in the tier as Heatran, and maybe moreso than Volcanion.

max HP chi-yu replays:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-706986
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1922316353

2 -> 1

I think this is a Pokemon that is genuinely within the range of Flutter Mane for influence on the tier. Assault Vest glues together both offense and bulky teams alike and SD is an absolutely nasty win condition that still performs at pre-home levels. AV obliterates Pokemon on offensive teams like Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, sometimes Flutter Mane, and Tornadus, while decently checking Kingambit and Bulk Up Palafin found on bulky teams. This just has so many stats and can cover anything you need to in a matchup. Swords Dance gained a check in Landorus-T post-home, but with any forms of damage mitigation, Stomping Tantrum is doing like 30 and you can SD in its face anyway - you can also just SD in Cress's face too. It's impossible to kill once boosted and beats all the other set-up win conditions 1v1. Also Belly Drum is legitimate with Cress support and has seen notable uses in OSDT, mostly by Z Strats, and can win the game on the spot if positioned around incorrectly.

 

[Lemurro]

3 --> 2
Tornadus better fits the description of a Tier 2 Pokemon than that of a Tier 3 Pokemon. It fits on a wide variety of teams in the Hyper Offense, Rain, and Balance archetypes. This is illustrated by the fact it is the sixth most used Pokemon is OSDT Swiss, currently sitting at 25% usage and a 50.63% winrate. Last slate it was criticized for having a poor matchup against bulkier teams but I think that a Torn user has many tools to make these matchups favorable. In this osdt game Xrn's Tornadus outlasts the first Trick Room and uses its support moves to prevent a second Trick Room from going up, helping him win the game. Tornadus users can also improve their matchup against bulkier teams by using Pokémon with positive matchups into Trick Room as can be seen in this Fespy replay, where Amoonguss and Trick Gholdengo neutralize the Trick Room threat and this Zee replay where Tornadus is used with an Imprison Farigiraf.
4 --> 3
Pelipper has a strong argument for the best weather setter in the tier due to it's access to helpful support moves like Helping Hand, Tailwind and Wide Guard, and Rain's ability to enable some of the strongest mons in the tier such as Palafin, Tornadus, and Gholdengo. In my opinion it should be in the same tier as Pokemon such as Torkoal and Gholdengo who can be very powerful when used on the right team.
Some OSDT rain replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-700247
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1895754933-pkjhmjxudm8mxrlp1qravnxkc5bl4z3pw https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-707957
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1904082725

 

[Kenpwnchi]

3 --> 2
Tornadus better fits the description of a Tier 2 Pokemon than that of a Tier 3 Pokemon. It fits on a wide variety of teams in the Hyper Offense, Rain, and Balance archetypes. This is illustrated by the fact it is the sixth most used Pokemon is OSDT Swiss, currently sitting at 25% usage and a 50.63% winrate. Last slate it was criticized for having a poor matchup against bulkier teams but I think that a Torn user has many tools to make these matchups favorable. In this osdt game Xrn's Tornadus outlasts the first Trick Room and uses its support moves to prevent a second Trick Room from going up, helping him win the game. Tornadus users can also improve their matchup against bulkier teams by using Pokémon with positive matchups into Trick Room as can be seen in this Fespy replay, where Amoonguss and Trick Gholdengo neutralize the Trick Room threat and this Zee replay where Tornadus is used with an Imprison Farigiraf.

Okay, so, I second this. With Tornadus having a, for the most part, decent speed stat and Prankster, it's able to pretty much cover all basisis when it comes to using its support moves as a supplementary mon (being that it can get everything it needs off first). Personally, I op to use Max Speed Choice Scarf simply for the sake of outspending other Tornadus (as well as allowing Tornadus to, again, outspeed pretty much anything it comes across). However, as mentioned above, Tornadus fulfills plenty of roles in DOU, and definitely should be increased in rank. One thing I wanted to note of mention is that I find myself placing Tornadus on the majority of my teams 99% of the time (simply for the sake for speed control). Also, being able to fit into any Weather Team, and set the weather (should the Weather Setter be defeated), makes Tornadus even more valuable. There's no other mons that can cover that role (since the role is being compressed).

Tornadus can use Icy Wind to maintain the speed control advantage. For example, if both you and your opponent activates Tailwind, if your Tornadus has Icy Wind, it can use it to make sure your team stays faster than your opponent's team. Tera Type Ground Tornadus can dodge Electric type moves, switch into Stealth Rock with no problem, and use U-Turn to pivot after setting Tailwind (allowing it to preserve its longevity, and keep setting Tailwind). Alternatively, Bleakwind Storm can be used for speed control, but its chances are 30% when it comes to reducing the speed stat. However, using all three (Tailwind, Icy Wind, and Bleakwind Storm), you'll never have to worry about not being ahead when it comes to speed control.
_
: T4 —> T3
Tbh, I'm not really sure why Hoopa-Unbound is T4, but I definitely feel like it should be T3. Hoopa-Unbound can easily be a PhyAtk, SpcAtk, or, even, a MixAtk, so you can never go wrong physically when it comes to Hoopa-Unbound. Both PhyAtk and SpcAtk have a move that breaks things like Protect (HSF and HSH, respectively), as well as a move that flinches (Zen Headbutt and Dark Pulse, respectively). With Thunder Wave, you can, now, ParaFlinch your opponent while dealing massive damage. In order to make Magician readily available, I'd suggest using Pinch Berries (Figy for PhyAtk HU and Wiki for Spc HU). Lastly, I like to use Reflect. As we all know, Hoopa-Unbound has a very weak physically defensive stat, so Reflect halving physical damage helps. The most important thing of note is the Tera Type. Generally, I go for Steel Tera Type Hoopa since it resists both Bug type and Fairy type moves (with the bonus of preventing it from being poisoned and hurt by the residual damage of Sandstorm). AV Hoopa-Unbound is also a set that works, but that's more for formats where SpcAtk are at an all time high.
_
: T2 —> T1
Ah, Rillaboom; the prodigious, all star Terrain Setter. So, the main reason I'm nominating Rillaboom is because it can set Grassy Terrain repeatedly with U-Turn, allow your other mon to do whatever it has to do (using Fake Out), it has Wood Hammer to deliver massive damage, and so on, so forth. The only two mons that really check Rillaboom in T2 is Heatran and Volcanion, but that can be sowed up by either using Fire Tera Type Rillaboom (to resist Fire type damage and burns) or Ground Tera Type Rillaboom (to use Stomping Tantrum and/or EQ). For Chien-Pao (if it's a problem), just use Fighting Tera Type Rillaboom with Body Press (since you won't have to worry about Intimidate or being burned). With all that being said, please put this mane with Flutter Mane.

 

[bagel]

Tier 2 -> Tier 3

My thoughts haven't really changed since the last VR slate, its total lack of offensive presence and general passivity makes it easy to exploit. As the meta has evolved more and more countermeasures have been developed and the meta seems to be shifting to become a bit more offensive which Cresselia often struggles to keep up with. Additionally, Cresselia doesn't actually "solve" the Amoonguss matchup as fully as it wants to. Funnily enough I think its less splashable than Tornadus which feels like it has gotten more optimized as the meta has progressed. Cresselia feels like it often traps teams into clunky, slower compositions that rely on tightly interwoven defensive cores which tend to fall apart when one piece falls, and in general struggle to keep up with well built offensive teams that have options to power through or disrupt Cresselia and its teammates.

Here are a handful of replays from the latest round of OSDT where I feel like cress gets taken advantage of by various means:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-708453
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-708927
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1921308147
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1921312288
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1925014654-wxbgppeineyqml6w1wb2xl009igacq0pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-710706

 

[Actuarily]

The voting for the next slate has started, thank you to everyone who nominated, we hope to get the results out soon!

 

[ButWhyThough_2]

if roaring moon is in tier 5, then why is it in dou?

 

[Arcticblast]

if roaring moon is in tier 5, then why is it in dou?

Roaring Moon's status as DOU only reflects its usage. It made the cutoff to move up out of DUU at the beginning of the month. Usage and viability aren't actually linked with each other - if every single person used Cloyster every game for a month, Cloyster would be in DOU, even though it isn't very good.

As for why Roaring Moon made it into DOU despite matching up poorly into most of the best Pokemon in the format? idk lol

 

[ButWhyThough_2]

ah, ok

 

[Actuarily]

The Viability Rankings have been updated! Thank you to everyone who voted & nominated. Discuss your thoughts to the new VR below!

This will be the last VR slate until the new DLC occurs!

Nominations:
5 -> 4

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 3. Scizor is really good into a lot of the top usage mons like Flutter Mane, Rillaboom, Cresselia, and Chien Pao. Only reason it isn’t higher is due to how good Iron Hands, Volcanion, & Heatran are. We’ve even seen success from SD sets.

Yoda2798: Tier 5. There’s a better bulky Steel-type with priority, it’s called Kingambit. The one big thing going for Scizor is Bullet Punch for Flutter Mane, but Kingambit can do almost anything Scizor can, including deal with Flutter in some cases, with several major upsides. Kingambit is noticeably bulkier, has a stronger priority move that’s able to actually threaten neutral targets, is far better into Fire-types, and has Defiant for Intimidate. U-Turn is neat but Scizor isn’t fast enough or bulky enough to make amazing use out of it, so while on very specifically hazard stacking teams it’s usable, in general I really think it’s not that great.

Nido-Rus: Tier 5. Bullet punch and u-turn are nice, but this simply doesn’t have the survivability or speed to succeed in the current metagame. Hits flutter, but struggles with anything else that’s faster than it since there’s basically nothing else weak to steel. Sciz is still nice into some of the slow cress durdlemons teams going around so as long as people continue to be complacent and use old teams I can understand a temporary rise, though I wouldn’t vote it there myself in terms of its viability (please stop using old outdated teams).

SMB: Tier 5, i just don’t see why’d you pick this as an sd pokemon because it’s outclassed by kingambit. Band is not good enough and bullet punch barely justifies picking it over other pokemon that could fill the same rol.

JRL: T4. Strong priority with access to SD, beats the likes of flutter, rilla, cress, or diancie, and can run on tr and tailwind. Tera Rock or Water can make it last longer in the field and be able to deal with fire types. He is also a great pivot off and works well on hazard stack teams.

Madaraaaa: T4. SD set is really good but defense stats are disappointing, fits with chien pao with combo of priority moves but fire types and iron hands are really spread so it doesnt have much space.

Bage1: Tier 5, it can kill Flutter Mane with Bullet Punch if you get the exact perfect board position and has a really strong U-turn but it really doesn’t have the special bulk to switch in and take hits enough times to be super effective as a pivot. I think it's totally workable on hazard-stack frameworks but there are generally better options to pressure Flutter that have a wider use-cases. Looking at the VR I think it fits in with the tier 5s better than the tier 4s.

UR -> 2

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 3, it’s noticeably worse than Basculegion and teams are way more prepared for it. It basically takes an extra ally dead to hit like the male version, which limits its usefulness until the extreme endgame where it’s the last 1-2 mins remaining, making it easier to save your checks.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Feels underwhelming until Last Respects comes online, and requires an extra KO compared to its male counterpart before everything drops to it, making it a bit more difficult to use. There’s a lot of Sucker Punch going around from Chien-Pao and Kingambit which makes it easier for teams to deal with Basculegion-F, and since Last Respects usually needs you to reach the point of having no switches available, Intimidate can reduce its damage output for something else to finish up the game, on top of other counterplay like redirection and speed control existing. I think you also want the support of something like a Chien-Pao or Indeedee-F to make Basculegion-F really worth it, which limits it team wise.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2, definitely worse than male basc but still very solid at cleaning up endgames. Still performs well even with people building with it in mind, and people are getting better at making it do work even in midgame scenarios.

SMB: tier 3 or 4, last respects bot that very often doesn’t hit hard enough. The funny mechanic can leave it in really weird spots.

JRL: T3. She is worse than her male version, but she does a great job in the end game, last respect she can sweep entire teams and she can have the support of chien pao or helping hand.

Madaraaaa: T3. Puts pressure in the middle-end game with stronger last respects, choice scarf fits well with the sweep you want to create. But can be useless in early turns, can be redirected, some pokemons can wall it boosting the defense… tier 3.

Bage1: Tier 2, Last Respects still generates a ton of endgame pressure and is one of the first things you need to think about in the builder. Basculegion-F still has a ton of flexibility with its sets that each require different counterplay and endgame planning. Good on rain, TR, and Scarf is very splashable. The power drop from Basc-M is definitely noticeable, but once 3-4 teammates have fallen Last Respects is basically impossible to switch into.

2 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 3. While Diancie can still take over games if it gets enough defense boosts, it struggles to muscle past most balance teams as Lunar Blessing Cress can just heal off its damage. Also the best fire types in Volcanion & Heatran have positive matchups into it.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Struggles into any team with Cresselia, while stuff like Iron Hands, Landorus-Therian, Heatran/Volcanion, Rillaboom/Amoonguss all check it, so without Tera Diancie can often literally be weak to half a team. Though the problem isn’t just defensively,, even if Diancie manages to get Trick Room up it often struggles to break through even Cresselia-less teams, only really working well against frailer offensive teams.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3, has been struggling into the common cress semiroom archetypes as it doesn’t have the sheer damage to muscle through grassy terrain/lunar blessing recovery or deal with super bulky pokemon like iron hands. On top of this iron hands, heatran, and volcanion often run heavy slam/flash cannon for flutter, which also ends up catching diancie and reducing how much pressure it can exert with its bulk.

SMB: Tier 3 even with tera there are too many threats for it and it barely can set tr safely and click 1 attack

JRL: T3. It struggles against common pokes like rilla, gholdengo, kingambit, volcanion, heatran or lando, which makes it very tera dependent.

Madaraaaa: T3. Is too passive vs some mons that can setup easily vs it. Is solid but not so good like in SS.

Bage1: Tier 3. It's really strong into a handful of potent mons but fodder for much more of the tier. It gives space for mons like Gholdengo and Iron Hands to set up, and doesn’t do much into a lot of the bulky Cresselia cores. Very tera dependant as its typing is quite bad defensively.

3 -> 5

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 4, while it struggles due to the popularity of Flutter Mane, Wake still has seen enough usage and success for T4.

Yoda2798: Tier 5. Niche option for sun, but Flutter Mane’s existence is the nightmare it can’t wake from, and sun teams more often than not don’t use it these days. Outside of sun it’s a total non-starter, which is part of the problem.

Nido-Rus: Tier 5, it’s seen some success on manual sun to the point where it’s worth keeping ranked, but certainly not enough to be a major threat. Absolutely hates flutter, if flutter didn’t exist this might have gone up a rank or two.

SMB: tier 5, only has a niche on sun teams and I’d even say it’s not the first option for a water type there

JRL: T5. It has very good stats for a UR, it only stands out in sun which is currently a rare archetype and there are also better pokes to use that give it problems like flutter, hands or volcanion.

Madaraaaa: T5. Is okay in sun teams but is slower than flutter mane and it doesnt have enough offensive power to use it… there are better water types.

Bage1: Tier 5. Only really a mon on sun and even then it's not even a top tier choice. Flutter, Volcanion, and Heatran (somehow) are all really annoying. It feels like it only gets decent value when you are able to call switches correctly which isn’t very reliable. It has lots of overlap and is worse than other special attacker options for Sun which already doesn’t have many free slots.

UR -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: UR. It was really cool winning that one Derby game, but I’m not really seeing the value over other ID Body Press mons like Garg & Goodra-H, who have way less weaknesses and better Spdef.

Yoda2798: UR. I have to agree with the others and say I think it’s just worse than the other Iron Defence Pokemon. Leech Seed doesn’t actually help much, and notably means that Flutter Mane can safely sit for a few turns and knock out the rest of your team in the other slot, while it is more reliant on Tera, weaker to status, and has worse special bulk compared to Goodra-H and Garganacl.

Nido-Rus: UR. Definitely a fun ID mon and I can see the value over the other two options with stuff like bulletproof, leech seed, and a stronger body press, but the negatives are too significant to make up for it. Unlike the other two it’s not immune to status, so if you tera (and you want to tera given the much worse base typing compared to the other two ID mons) then you lose your spore immunity. On top of that it’s also weaker to taunt than garg which always has the threat of whittling away HP with salt cure. Finally, it’s just significantly more frail than the other two, so even with def boosts you can only do so much with that 88/75 special bulk.

SMB: tier 5 is fine, it has shown it can win a couple of games and it can compete with other body press pokemon

JRL: T5. The set ID + BP and tera fuego can do a great job on a specific team, flutter's moonblast doesn't touch it because of its ability and can be healed with leech seed, I don't see it higher than T5.

Madaraaaa: T5. ID set is good and can drain opponent’s team,,, but it works only in rare scenarios, doesnt touch flutter and gholdengo.

Bage1: UR: It's just a different flavor of IDBP mon to Garg and Goodra-H. Leech Seed and being naturally faster are some nice positives, but it's super tera hungry because its typing kinda stinks. Garganacl being immune to status and having broken move Salt Cure makes it really hard to justify Chestnuaght over it in my eyes. It's already an inherent mu fish by virtue of being an IDBP mon and I think a couple nice games of it doing what other IDBP mons can do isn’t enough for it to be ranked.

UR -> 4

reasoning

Actuarily: T5, a lot of its listed niche of an imprison TR mon that can stop priority can also be done by Indeedee-f, who also gets follow me. It is a little more offensive though, so it does have enough value for T5.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Priority blocking is strong while Farigiraf offering it to floating Pokemon and not interfering with teammates makes it a viable alternative to Indeedee-F on certain teams, mainly in the style of Zee’s sample team. A notable consequence of the priority point is you can actually Fake Out to help set Trick Room, which is big. I’m not that big on Imprison, but Trick Room and Armor Tail, along with a not insignificant offensive presence, make it a strong enough option for Tier 4 in my eyes.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4, imprison is in my personal experience just not that valuable in a 6v6 situation- instead farig provides much more value on semiroom teams and with other support options over imprison. The ability to block priority while still getting to use your own priority mons as well as setting speed control meshes together really well with current metagame threats like chien pao, dragonite, kingambit, hands, etc.

SMB: T5, it’s more reliable than indeedee at blocking priority which is nice, imprison looks like a wasted slot but ig it depends on the team

JRL: T5. Imprision + tr on HO teams could be accommodated by Zee's team since it helps against chien pao + dnite. In tr teams it can also do work but it has a smaller niche due to the offensiveness of the meta, but it has utility, T5 is fine.

Madaraaaa: T5. Blocking priority moves plus trickroom (to put or reverse it) is enough to stay in T5. Obviously diancie, cresselia are better tr setters.

Bage1: Tier 5. Imprison + TR is the main niche for this guy but it also lets you use your own priority as opposed to Indeedee. It has just enough bulk and does just enough damage to be workable, and it doesn’t need to only be used for Imprison + TR as both Helping Hand and even Ally Switch are usable moves on it.

3 -> 2

reasoning

Actuarily: T2. Absolutely one of the biggest threats in the tier due to how incredibly hard a Tera Dark +2 Sucker Punch hits. It can also run defensive teras that can totally throw off its checks.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. I already sang Kingambit’s praises last time, it’s a massive threat and Iron Hands is the only truly bad matchup (Flutter Mane can be dicey after a Swords Dance or where Tera is involved), with options like Safety Goggles, Assault Vest, and numerous defensive Tera types providing versatility and letting it choose what it can set up on.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. One of the premier threats in the metagame, always a standard significant considering when building a team. Great bulk, solid typing, very scary if you let it set up which isn’t hard to do with said bulk and typing.

SMB: tier 2, with the right support it can be a massive threat to many teams combined with its great stats and the funny mechanic to improve its typing offensively or defensively

JRL: T2. Great bulk, really good typing and a big offensive presence with sd and tera dark sucker punch, if it gets to +2 it becomes a huge menace. It fits into different styles of teams and puts in a ton of work vs tr setters like cress or diancie, on top of checking gholdengo

Madaraaaa: T2. Bulky, hits hard, can use SD/terain specific turns and sweep. I like monodark set, but also with iron head, terablast or brick break can be versatile and really offensive threat.

Bage1: Tier 2. Tera Dark Black Glasses doesn’t really have any defensive counterplay after its gotten off a Swords Dance and often forces the opponent to make unfavorable trades or have an Iron Hands. Even then, Gambit can just as easily run a defensive tera like fairy or water that changes its matchups entirely.

5 -> 4

reasoning

Actuarily: T4, is really good into a lot of the stuff sun is bad into, and has some good utility with sleep powder/encore/after you.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Strong option on sun, with nice STABs and utility moves combined with blistering Speed in sun, letting it serve as a check to faster Pokemon like Flutter Mane and Chien-Pao, along with outspeeding most opponents in Tailwind.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4- torkoal HO has seen a bit of a resurgence and this is one of the core mons that makes these comps work, particularly with its ability to outspeed proto speed flutter and threaten sleep powder or after you.

SMB: tier 5, it needs to run more than 4 moves, I’m still not sure what’s better, an offensive or a “support” set but i don’t think any of them is good enough to be tier 4

JRL: T4. It finds a niche in sun teams, where it supports its teammates with encore, after you to facilitate torkoal or sleep powder to put opponents to sleep. Whats more, offensively its got good coverage in cc and solar blade vs chi yu, chien pao, heatran or palafin.

Madaraaaa: T5. Okay in sun but I dont think is so strong to be in t4.

Bage1: Tier 4. Very easy to put on sun as it has good utility options with Sleep Power / After You / Encore as well as doing a ton of damage with its stabs. It’s even seen some use as an all-out-attacker with a Life Orb and Ice Spinner instead of a more supporting set.

2 -> 1

reasoning

Actuarily: T2. It’s really good into balance teams, able to actually fake out + pivot and pull off wood hammers/brick break. But it really struggles into offensive teams, really only able to get in once or twice, keeping it off of T1. Wood hammer doing so much recoil limits it’s longevity. While it’s a great partner to set up mons, especially those that use priority moves, it faces a lot of competition from Amoonguss in this regard.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. One of the most splashable Pokemon in the tier, but Rillaboom’s effectiveness has waned slightly recently, offensive Landorus-T sets match better into it, as does Chi-Yu compared to the other two Fire-types, and a rise in priority blockers does limit what it can do. Still a great bulky pivot, and Wood Hammer can be a big threat, especially against teams relying on Amoonguss as their Grass-type resist, but its weakness to more offensive teams, particularly due to its typing, holds it back. Comparing to Iron Hands, which I believe has both a higher floor and ceiling, Rillaboom never dominates in the same way, and can have much quieter games due to its reliance on Wood Hammer and being more vulnerable defensively.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2, closer to tier 3 if anything. It’s certainly still a good mon especially into bulky semiroom comps, but it just doesn’t get the space to make much progress against more offensive team comps. Great for defensively pivoting into attacks but often just doesn’t provide enough value once it actually hits the field, especially with covert cloak, indeedee, and farig all becoming more common.

SMB: Tier 1, it’s useful in every game, it trades really well with almost everything, excellent coverage options, fake out, uturn, grassy terrain to enable bulky pokemon to do better… Almost no downsides.

JRL: T1. The best pivot with hands. Knocks items off, breaks screens with brick break, has fake out, summons terrain and gets momentum with u-turn for better positioning. Offensively, it hits hard with terrain hammer. Its a really complete mon, and it fits onto a great variety of teams, like semiroom, rain or offense. It does its job really well, and i consider it does deserver to be in t1

Madaraaaa: T2. Amazing pivot to use in every team, but is a zero vs some high tier mons and is a flaw.

Bage1: Tier 2. Agree with basically everything Actuarily said. Its matchup into offense really holds it back from being Tier 1, as mons such as Chi-Yu, Tornadus, Chien Pao and Dragonite all hit it hard and generally don’t care much about what it does. It also doesn’t like Lando-T which can intimidate and and is often faster, able to U-turn off of Rillaboom for big damage (especially with the rise of scarf and band Lando)

5 -> UR

reasoning

Actuarily: UR. Hasn’t really seen much use in some time, and although I think there’s probably some value in follow me + fast encore, would have to see it to deserve a spot on the VR.

Yoda2798: UR. Too frail to work well as a redirector (and Indeedee-F covering the Ghost immunity niche), and offensively Maushold struggles too, especially with the Ghost-types readily available for Population Bomb.

Nido-Rus: UR. Definitely still usable and can provide solid value to win (Z strats cetitan match), but extremely niche and limited in its role.

SMB: UR. Seeing no usage except on a couple gimmick teams is not enough to be ranked.

JRL: UR. At the moment it has no niche in any playstyle. Offensively, in this ghost filled metagame with flutter mane or basculegion, it's unable to put in much work. Defensively, it cant take many hits, and there are mons with its same role that do a better job than it, like indeedee or amoongus.

Madaraaaa: UR. Too frail, many hyper offensive mons outspeed it… in this metagame is a zero.

Bage1: UR: Probably underexplored but it currently feels outclassed pretty hard by Amoonguss and Indeedee as redirectors. Friend Guard is an amazing ability, but its own bulk is so limited it's difficult to make good use out of it.

4 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 3. Has seen some use even outside of dedicated psyspam teams, with stuff like psychic seed Iron Hands making a comeback, and it works well with HO for preventing priority.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Central component to PsySpam teams and some of the recent Swords Dance Iron Hands teams, with the combination of Psychic Terrain, Follow Me, and Trick Room offering great and unique utility. A notable amount of priority in the current meta makes priority blocking especially valuable right now.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3, has seen notable use in setup teams and also some use in psyspam teams. Blocking priority has significant value right now with stuff like sucker chien pao/kingambit, fake out hands, espeed dnite all being mitigated. Redirecting last respects is a nice added bonus.

SMB: tier 4, it very often ends up losing the terrain wars, still a nice pokemon but i don’t think it has gotten better since the last slate

JRL: T3. It fits in HO teams to avoid priorities with psychic terrain. Using tr + follow me helps armarouge spam expanding force. Its always useful in battle, and it gives its team a lot of support, activating hands seed, trick room or helping you set up

Madaraaaa: T3. Follow me, trickroom, psy terrain. Can be useful in different situations, is a good supporter.

Bage1: Tier 3. Psyspam is still a potent archetype that needs to be prepared for, but Indeedee’s value comes enabling both setup pokemon such as Iron Hands as well as HO threats like Scarf Basculegion, Flutter Mane, and Chi-Yu with both terrain control and redirection.

UR -> 4

reasoning

Actuarily: UR. Had some cool wins, but pure psychic typing is really tough rn, and stuff like Cress are able to succeed despite it due to having massive bulk + utility.

Yoda2798: UR. Worse Cresselia that’s also a worse Mew, so not really much reason to use a team with Uxie when you can use one of them and have a better team, just fit your damage elsewhere.

Nido-Rus: UR. Funny niche mon that can do some nice stuff, but whatever value you get from doing non-cress things can instead just be done better by mew. Mystical power is a cool move but just too slow of a ramp up on a mon with already low offensive stats to be a notable threat.

SMB: UR, no recovery is really bad for what it wants to do, as others said it’s a worse cresselia

JRL: UR. Cresselia wannabe, but much less viable and does less things than cress. I think it has not enough of a niche to be in t5

Madaraaaa: UR. Interesting but Cress is on another level.

Bage1: UR: Weird middle step between Mew and Cresselia without much of what makes either of them successful. Being a mini-Cress when teams already prep for Cress is tough as well.

4 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 4. While it has a lot of utility, Cress is just better, and even though this can snarl + wisp, wisp isn’t nearly as good this gen due to Lunar Blessing. Pure psychic typing is rough rn unless you get a really good matchup.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Mew is basically a worse Cresselia that offers different utility (notably Will-O-Wisp which is neat), but is less bulky and doesn’t get Lunar Blessing. If you’re wanting Trick Room then Cresselia does that much better, and if you’re wanting Tailwind then Tornadus does that much better (and also gets Taunt). To compare it to another support Psychic-Type in Indeedee-F, that has a more clearly defined niche, whereas Mew largely just feels like an inferior pick to one of the aforementioned Pokemon.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. I would’ve nommed this to tier 3 earlier on, but the kind of teams I’ve seen mew perform best on (pala setup, chi-yu setup, gambit setup) are all better prepped for now with the increased popularity of sun HO, psyspam, farig, bulky chi-yu etc.

SMB: bottom of tier 3, pretty useful on set up teams that are more offensive than cress versions or are in need of tailwind. Encore and taunt on a fast pokemon forces the opponent to play on some ways that leave them exposed to wow/snarl

JRL: T4. Its true that it can be really annoying for some balanced teams between wow and snarl, and it has good support options like encore or pollen puff, coupled with speed control like tailwind and tr, but it suffers a lot against ho, which is common in this metagame. i think its passiveness makes it a t4.

Madaraaaa: T4. Lost fake out and other moves in this gen but is valuable. But I think this metagame has too pressuring pokemons and mew barely manage to do what it wants.

Bage1: Tier 3. Rehashing my initial VR nom here, it just has a lot of flexibility with what it can bring between disruption with Taunt/Encore damage reduction with Snarl/Wisp and other options such as Hazards, Speed Control, and Pollen Puff. I do think that it performs best on the more setup balance structures that are being more prepared for but it is still one of if not the best ways to deal with most Cresselia structures which are still quite common.

5 -> 4

reasoning

Actuarily: UR. Hasn’t seen much use at all, and the nomination lists prankster thunder wave as it’s main value, which is nice, but there’s lunar blessing cress and plenty that doesn’t mind being thunder wave’d, and a lot of the mons that would mind are dark types.

Yoda2798: UR. Practically zero usage, if you want a speed control genie then Tornadus is far far better, as Tailwind is just a much stronger move than Thunder Wave and isn’t stopped by Dark-types or priority blockers. Electric-type coverage isn’t really worthwhile enough to be a reason to use, especially when Iron Hands exists, and on rain where it is worthwhile to go out of your way for Wildbolt Storm it’s Thundurus-T that gets used instead.

Nido-Rus: Tier 5- think this still has enough value with niche options like acrobatics, eerie impulse, and prankster rain dance/twave, but certainly hanging on at the edge of tier 5 as its pretty much disappeared from tournament games.

SMB: UR unless you have the skill to get a lot of full paras

JRL: T5. It could be a tornadus level speed control, but the nerf prankster making it unable to paralyze chien pao, chi yu, kingambit or gholdengo. Electric is more difficult to spam bc of ground types, rillaboom or cress. i think t5 is good for it.

Madaraaaa: UR. Weakest genius, prankster is not reliable… is a dead weight on the field many times. Defiant is simply bad.

Bage1: UR. Previously could have been convinced to Tier 5 but the rise of Indeedee/Farig and Chi-Yu are really bad for Thund because they all stop/don’t care about anything it does. Torn is way lower risk and higher reward. Electric also isn’t a very spammable type + if you want Thund to be bulky enough stick around it does no damage.

5 -> UR

reasoning

Actuarily: UR. Hasn’t seen much use in a while, great in duu though.

Yoda2798: UR. No reason to use this unless you’re going out of your way to, Flutter Mane is an infinitely better Fairy-type, and Kingambit a much better albeit different anti-intimidate. Too frail and an awkward speed tier, and very limited reason to use over Flutter.

Nido-Rus: UR. No notable reason to use this rather than just loading up flutter. Special sets are basically completely outclassed by flutter, while physical sets just don’t have the survivability to actually get any snowball going.

SMB: UR, too frail to even get trades, needs more than a couple of turns ignoring it to be useful

JRL: UR. Its low bulk makes it so flutter mane, chienpao or priorities ohko it easily, and its offensive power isn't good enough, which makes it too weak to common offensive threats in this metagame. Contrary is a good ability and it could fit fit in some kind of team, and that's why t5 is justified.

Madaraaaa: UR. Frail, disappointing offensively, impossible to boost it easily.

Bage1: UR: Too frail and too awkward to set up. Has only really seen success against poor teams that let it get free Superpowers or let Thund use Eerie Impulse/Scary Face on it.

3 -> 2

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 3. It’s still a leg behind the other fire types, who have such great defensive utility + coverage. Chi-yu definitely has value, but it often needs to run scarf or else be a Tera hog.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Assault Vest has proven yet again to be the strongest set, offering great survivability with max HP while maintaining its offensive presence with Beads of Ruin and a good Speed tier, outspeeding basically everything that isn’t “fast” (e.g. Flutter Mane and Chien-Pao). Chi-Yu is the primary Fire-type for offense and sun teams, with choiced sets in the mix there too, but the splashability of AV is what’s really pushing this into Tier 2. With special bulk somewhere between Volcanion and Heatran’s (but with nice access on top), being better offensively than both, though lacking the Fairy-type resist or defensive utility from the ability of the other two, Chi-Yu offers something different from but equal to the other Fire-types and deserves to sit in Tier 2 alongside them.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Completely on par with the other two fire types as bulky sets have shown immense value. Trades positively with a majority of the format, dishing out significant damage while taking less, all while being at a good enough speed tier to outspeed everything it needs to.

SMB: Tier 3, heatran is miles ahead and volcanion is a couple of steps ahead, it still fits well on many teams and ofc it’s always threatening but the defensive typing is not so good and the speed tier can be awkward

JRL: T2. Key mon in offensive archetypes, really good in sun making flutter mane and tornadus stronger. Its max hp av set gives it a lot of special bulk, and it still hits hard and boosts its partners. Tera water grassy seed nasty plot coupled with rillaboom in balanced teams is really good too, and it pressures opposing teams a lot. It can also work well on screens teams. its true that it competes with volcano and heatran, but its undeniable that its versatility and ability to put in work in most of the games makes it t2 worthy

Madaraaaa: T2. High offensive output and a great fire-dark coverage, creates sinergy with special attackers, has also taunt, nasty plot… can be used av, scarf, specs or even life orb or seed: is really powerful and versatile. Of course defensively is not a giant and priority moves can hit chi yu hardly, but I think overall is T2.

Bage1: Tier 2. Super versatile, lots of different options between AV, Nasty Plot, Specs/Scarf, or more defensive sets. AV can pretty much outtrade any special attacker in the tier, while Choice Specs still can blow holes into teams even with no SpA investment. Nasty Plot is extremely dangerous if given a free turn to setup, which often forces opponents into awkward decisions if the Chi-Yu set isn’t revealed.

2 -> 1

reasoning

Actuarily: T1. It has multiple great sets, like the classic AV is just a great Pokémon that fits on nearly every team, then the SD/BD sets can absolutely win games on their own. Hands’ biggest checks can lose to it depending on its move slots (Flutter with Heavy Slam and Lando’s with ice punch). Beyond that, it’s super good into a lot of top Pokémon like Kingambit, Volcanion, Heatran, Chien-Pao, Diancie, etc.

Yoda2798: Tier 1. I think it’s clear at this point that Flutter Mane is #1 and Iron Hands is probably best of the rest (with Landorus-T and Rillaboom on a similar level), the question being whether the gap between Flutter and everything else makes it fairer to have this in Tier 1 or Tier 2. I would have said no up until recently but I’ve been convinced to fall on the side of Tier 1 now, on top of Assault Vest being an absolute trade machine we’ve seen Swords Dance sets lately prove they’re still very potent, especially with Ice Punch and Safety Goggles to deal with Landorus-T and Amoonguss. Iron Hands’ combination of bulk and offensive prowess let it fit on practically every team and do work in practically every game, making it one of the biggest threats in the tier.

Nido-Rus: Tier 1. The others have covered it already, but AV continues to be a potent threat, while SD and BD sets have also started to crop up and power through opposing teams with sheer bulk and power.

SMB: tier 1, not at the same level than it was before dlc but it’s still the hardest pokemon to take down and it’s always useful and with a wide variety of sets, moves and good tera types.

JRL: T1. The premiere offensive pivot, with rillaboom. Its AV set allows it to beat flutter mane, and it beats chien pao, chi yu or tera normal dragonite with cc or drain punch. its seed set is a key wincon. it fits on ho teams as a pivot, and also on balanced and semiroom teams. you can also adapt your tera to beat key metagame threats, like water vs palafin, chien pao or chi yu, grass vs amoonguss, etc. it fits on so many teams, with fake out support, and its always a wincon. t1 for me.

Madaraaaa: T1. Best pokemon in the tier, every set has power, the stats and the movepool don't lie.

Bage1: Tier 1. Good on every archetype, good into every archetype. AV is the most splashable mon in the tier, able to take on pretty much all the major offensive threats. SD/BD can easily take over games and win on their own if not careful.

3 -> 2

reasoning

Actuarily: Yeah T2 is the right fit. There’s been a ton of different HO styles, but they pretty much all feature Torn is some capacity. It is THE tailwind setter, all others are few and far between.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Shouldn’t really have dropped in the first place, it’s quite singularly THE Tailwind setter, and a major piece of more offensive teams (though to be clear it’s not just pure offensive teams it works on, semi-bulky or semiroom teams also benefit from Tornadus). Prankster Tailwind is the strongest form of speed control, while Bleakwind Storm is a more than respectable attack and other utility moves like Taunt and the weather moves ensure it always has something useful to use.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2- at this point this is the core mon holding together a lot of offensive team comps. The value of prankster tailwind is simply too good to give up for a majority of teams that don’t opt to run TR, and even some that do.

SMB: tier 3, clicking tailwind is not enough to be tier 2, it’s pretty one-dimensional and with bulkier teams you often find yourself just ignoring it and taking advantage of it to get free turns. Offense mirror is just a tw war where the one that sacs it and get more advantage with that wins.

JRL: T2. The best prankster tailwind user, key component of hyper offensive teams, with access to rain dance and sunny day. It checks tr with taunt, and it controls speed with scary face and icy wind too, coupled with its signature move even..

Madaraaaa: T2. Premiere tailwind setter, taunt and sunny day are good and has a spammable stab.

Bage1: Tier 2. HO teams have gotten way better at dealing with fat, so Torn is in a better place now. This guy finds itself on pretty much every style of HO, Prankster TW is just way too hard to give up a lot of the time.

4 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: T3. Rain has seen a decent amount of success to warrant t3, even though I feel like no matter how you build rain it always has some terrible matchups.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. I was the one voting this up last time, rain has been a respectable archetype for a while now and deserving of Tier 3, with Pelipper obviously being a core part of that as the rain setter.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Rain has seen enough of a resurgence to warrant this. Not much has really changed in terms of what this does or how it matches up in the metagame, though it does appreciate the transition to less bulky, more offensive teams.

SMB: tier 4, to keep it simple, to me rain is not a tier 3 archetype, whenever it’s good enough to not be a coinflip playstyle i’ll vote it to 3 but rn it’s not like that

JRL: T3. Only drizzle user for rain teams. It has access to tailwind, helping hand and wide guard, which makes it a good support mon. It can also take on a more offensive role, with strong stabs boosted by rain vs rilla, heatran, amoonguss, diancie or landorus.

Madaraaaa: T4. Only because set up rain.

Bage1: Tier 3. Pelipper itself is pretty much a shitmon and drags rain down by being needed to be used, but Rain overall is still good enough for this to be Tier 3.

4 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: T4. While Hoopa does have some decent set options, most of them fall pretty flat, and aren’t able to get the kos they want. Grassy seed with Rilla is by far its best set, but even with the def boost Hoopa doesn’t feel particularly bulky and generally wants to Tera out of its bad typing. It also misses a lot of kos you’d want out of an offensive TR setter.

Yoda2798: Tier 5. Eragon’s team was the one Hoopa team seeing significant usage and that has fallen away, there’s better general-use Dark-types in Chien-Pao and Kingambit that work far better. Hoopa-U is too physically frail and reliant on Tera so it’s basically a niche option on fullroom teams (which are not great) where it can make use of the Trick Room selling point most effectively.

Nido-Rus: Tier 5, close to UR. As yoda mentioned, Hoopa’s just too much of a tera hog with its physical bulk and 4x U-turn weakness. On top of that it doesn’t have great moves to click as it can no longer run both signature moves, and has to opt for something like psychic or drain punch instead.

SMB: Tier 5, it’s hard to fit in teams, bulkier teams want different tr setters, with more defensive utility, the only way to be useful there is using your tera and then be able to get a couple of attacks hoping that your opponent doesn’t carry any fake out, spore, strong prio…

JRL: T4. TR user with a small niche. its the most offensive tr setter, but it has a huge weakness to u-turn, which makes it tera dependent. It can work on specific full tr teams, because its got good moves to break protect, which makes your opponent unable to pivot. I yet, i think t4 is correct for it

Madaraaaa: T5. Exist better dark types, has mid speed and low defense stats… is difficut to create a team with it, simply there are better options, even if offensively is a giant.

Bage1: Tier 5. As others mentioned, it's way too much of a defensive liability, and it needs to be put into perfect situations to succeed offensively. And even then it's often pretty lackluster.

2 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: T2. While yes it’s passive and teams are doing a better job of building with Cress in mind, it’s still incredible support for so many of the slow set up mons that end up being the biggest threats like Iron Hands & Kingambit.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. One of if not the best support Pokemon in the tier, the best Trick Room setter, and a great enabler for setup with Lunar Blessing and Ally Switch. Cresselia is a cornerstone piece of bulkier teams which are really strong still, and Pokemon like Iron Hands, Volcanion, and Kingambit massively appreciate it, while stuff like Landorus-T or Rillaboom still enjoy healing and the ability to use Trick Room to help against Tailwind teams or naturally fast threats like Flutter Mane and Chien-Pao. People are more prepared for Cresselia outside of just having Flutter Mane now, but it still does its job and is an important, irreplaceable Pokemon.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Bit of a controversial pick, but while cresselia is easy to build and use and has straightforward team comps, it’s become sort of a crutch for bad teambuilds. Within a given game it’s hard to point out cress as the problem as it does its job and holds together bulky comps, but the problem is that the archetype as a whole has been getting a lot more abusable by faster offensive threats that just overwhelm it with sheer damage.

SMB: 3, easy to shut down, very passive and the 25% healing is not enough for it. Still good at making it easier for other things to win but per se it’s not close to tier 2.

JRL: T2. In my opinion, its the best tr setter, with a wide array of supportive moves for its team: helping hand, ally switch and especially lunar blessing. Goggles vs amoonguss is incredible, tera dark is really good defensively for it (and it makes it prankster taunt immune). It can also be a wincon with its cm seed set. it is true this metagames really offensive, and sometimes cress is kind of a dead weight in battle, but you can't deny its supporting capabilities, which makes it amazing in most matches

Madaraaaa: T3. Dominant in usage but I feel is too passive sometimes and meta is adapting well to cressroom teams… still is the best tr setter and supports well the partners. Endures everything.

Bage1: Tier 3: Nido put it well, Cress often doesn’t really do much wrong, but it traps teams into poor structures that are often easy to exploit with more offensive teams. It will always have the problem of being too passive and it lets lots of mons set up in front of it without really any counterplay. Lots of the biggest offensive threats have positive matchups into it, but using tera on Cress is generally not worth it.

Low Tier Sweep

Changes:
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T3
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T5 -> UR
T5 -> T4
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> T4
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
UR -> T3
T2 -> T3
T3 -> T5
UR -> T5
T3 -> T2
T5 -> T4
T5 -> UR
T4 -> T3
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T3 -> T2
T2 -> T1
T3 -> T2
T4 -> T3
T4 -> T5
T2 -> T3

 

[SuckyLucky]

Super Duper Early Noms:
- New --> 2/3

Super gimmicky Dark Void mon, but if it doesn't get banned will likely be viable if Dark Void hits. Major troll.

(Normal and Bloodmoon) - Returning --> 1/2

Ursaluna was practically omnipresent prior to its ban, and was a major contributor to the TR dominance that was seen, esp. on ladder. With a special attacking form, it's even more splashable. Thank goodness you can't run both.

- New --> 2/3

Big attacker, folds a lot of the frail and semi-bulky sweepers we've got in the tier, and with solid coverage (elemental punches, poison jab, stomping tantrum, etc.) in Trick Room it is probably one of the biggest sweeper threats available. Even outside of Trick Room, Mach Punch offers a lot in terms of revenge killing. Also gets Knock Off.

- New --> 3/4

Marvel scale + Flame Orb is a personal favorite of mine, but I don't know how well it will work here. Not a lot of special Grass/Electric attackers, but Garganacl could be a problem for it if it doesn't drop off in usage. Also might be too passive, but it could work as a support pokemon with Life Dew, Icy Wind, Scald, and other similar moves.

- New --> 3

Neutralizing Gas is always something, especially with Ruin Abilities no longer working with it on the field.

- New --> 3/4

Tera lets it outmaneuver most of its possible counters/checks, mainly Hands and Chien Pao. Probably has some viability.

- New --> 5

Seems like it's just a weaker version of Iron Hands, since speed and possibility of being a mixed attacker don't outvalue the sheer bulk and power Hands has to me. However, it gets Fake Out and U-Turn, so it could work as a frailer version of Rillaboom.

I know literally nothing about the new legends but based off stats and abilities alone, I'd say Ogerpon all could be 2/3 range and Okidogi around tier 3, Munkidori same as Okidogi. Again, I know nothing about them, so that's just a bare bones guess.

 

[ButWhyThough_2]

Super Duper Early Noms:
- New --> 2/3

Super gimmicky Dark Void mon, but if it doesn't get banned will likely be viable if Dark Void hits. Major troll.

(Normal and Bloodmoon) - Returning --> 1/2

Ursaluna was practically omnipresent prior to its ban, and was a major contributor to the TR dominance that was seen, esp. on ladder. With a special attacking form, it's even more splashable. Thank goodness you can't run both.

- New --> 2/3

Big attacker, folds a lot of the frail and semi-bulky sweepers we've got in the tier, and with solid coverage (elemental punches, poison jab, stomping tantrum, etc.) in Trick Room it is probably one of the biggest sweeper threats available. Even outside of Trick Room, Mach Punch offers a lot in terms of revenge killing. Also gets Knock Off.

- New --> 3/4

Marvel scale + Flame Orb is a personal favorite of mine, but I don't know how well it will work here. Not a lot of special Grass/Electric attackers, but Garganacl could be a problem for it if it doesn't drop off in usage. Also might be too passive, but it could work as a support pokemon with Life Dew, Icy Wind, Scald, and other similar moves.

- New --> 3

Neutralizing Gas is always something, especially with Ruin Abilities no longer working with it on the field.

- New --> 3/4

Tera lets it outmaneuver most of its possible counters/checks, mainly Hands and Chien Pao. Probably has some viability.

- New --> 5

Seems like it's just a weaker version of Iron Hands, since speed and possibility of being a mixed attacker don't outvalue the sheer bulk and power Hands has to me. However, it gets Fake Out and U-Turn, so it could work as a frailer version of Rillaboom.

I know literally nothing about the new legends but based off stats and abilities alone, I'd say Ogerpon all could be 2/3 range and Okidogi around tier 3, Munkidori same as Okidogi. Again, I know nothing about them, so that's just a bare bones guess.

i wouldnt say conkeldurr will be as viable as you think, we already have iron hands which is pretty much better in all aspects, same thing can be said with infernape.

 

[SuckyLucky]

i wouldnt say conkeldurr will be as viable as you think, we already have iron hands which is pretty much better in all aspects, same thing can be said with infernape.

Why have one when you can have both! Also Conk gets Mach Punch + Guts Facade, two things Hands doesn’t. Maybe not as good as Hands but as worst still a good mon to go with it.

 

[laptops]

-->t1 These guys aren't super complicated in what they do so i'm not gonna write out a long post. Ivy cudgel does a morbillion damage and they hit a good enough speed tier to threaten most of the meta, but that doesnt even matter cuz it gets glide for some reason??? Really strong offensive threats that can setup with sd, and bulkier utility sets can also be run with moves like taunt, leechseed/horn leech, spikes, uturn etc. They're definitely not all equally viable but even the rock guy is still stupid enough to be t1, even if he is the worst of the 4.

 

[ButWhyThough_2]

--> 3
also early post here-
honestly, this thing can't really do much. yea it's got steam eruption that can burn enemies, as well as sludge bomb and earth power as coverage, it kind of just dies to iron hands if you don't tera. with iron hands being so popular, i just don't see it being as viable as chi yu or heatran

 

[zee]

View attachment 555922--> 3
also early post here-
honestly, this thing can't really do much. yea it's got steam eruption that can burn enemies, as well as sludge bomb and earth power as coverage, it kind of just dies to iron hands if you don't tera. with iron hands being so popular, i just don't see it being as viable as chi yu or heatran

with iron hands being so popular, i just don't see it being as viable as [two pokemon that also lose to iron hands without tera]

???

 

[ButWhyThough_2]

yea, i guess that's true, they all lose to that behemoth

chi yu offers a lot more offensive support with beads of ruin. and heatran(while being a bit of a tera hog) can tera grass to take more advantage of flash fire. volcanion's steam eruption doesn't provide as much has snarl or magma storm/lavaplume(certain situations), and it's general use to block palafin is better suited for gastrodon.

 

[qsns]

-> 1

rillaboom is back and actually does things again. Threatening pins in an offensive metagame is good, can boost its damage output with an item/Tera/Chien-Pao to achieve OHKOs on Flutter and clean up other things. High Horsepower is also a phenomenal upgrade that gives powerful coverage into the fires. You get to boost the damage output/enable Glide for Ogerpon too!!!!!!

-> The Dumpster (5)

I think this mon was on a serious downswing before and we have now released 4 different, good grass types that obliterate it, as well as a higher Rilla usage. The tempo loss on turn 1 is unacceptable for such a meager reward in this format. SD Water Ogerpon does the setup water thing much better as Flutter does not blow it up and it is not immediately weak to Iron Hands. Would say UR but I think Pala rain probably still has legs if you can figure out the Water Ogerpon issue.

-> 3

Does not actually check Flutter Mane with Rocks up. Dies to Iron Hands. Dies to Ogerpon. Still a great glue on some teams that need it - it has a really unique and powerful defensive profile as well as STAB - but I think Heatran's Grass resistance and better special bulk is much more relevant for most teams.

-> 5

Landorus-T is a ubiquitous glue that checks this, we released Rillaboom from its shackles, and Ogerpon is here to OHKO it. I always thought this did a lousy job of actually breaking the fat balance teams (with Cresselia) and it has a really, really bad matchup into offense, as Flutter Mane constantly threatens to OHKO it and it cannot reliably touch Tornadus.

-> 4

Setup is a lot more powerful with Tera. There is a pretty limited suite of actually good spread moves (basically just Flutter Gleam and Heat Waves, though the occasional Blizzard is there). Teraing out of these is pretty trivial (Fire) and allows you to use Friend Guard for a ton of effect. Clefairy has surprisingly good bulk on the special side (comparable to Qwilfish's physical bulk) and an insane kit consisting of Follow Me, Encore, Life Dew, Helping Hand, Heal Pulse, Stealth Rock, and After You (TR protection). This is mostly a product of Tera enabling dumb stuff and Clefairy being one of the better supports (next to Rilla/Hands) for these.

kommo-o and sinistcha are both good but not sure where they'd be.

 

[Test Bots]

--> 2
These guys are pretty easy to slap into teams. They got good natural speed, benefit from Grassy Terrain (via one of the most used Fake Out user), and immune to Amoonguss.

--> 3
I think what makes these mons set themselves apart from Ogerpon-Fire is their spread move, Heat Wave. Chi-yu got Beads, and the latter two have better bulk. Unfortunately, they need to have a speed advantage to KO Ogerpon-Rock and Ogerpon-Water, the very Grass-types that they should be defeating.

--> 5
Why would I ever use a mon that wastes a turn, especially when Ogerpon-Water is around. Dragonite and Kinagambit does a better job of maintaining momentum.

--> 1
I see this mon as one that could easily change the outcome of a game. Tailwind is so easy to setup and it got a pretty splashable move. Being a threat to Ogerpon, Rillaboom, and Amoonguss makes this mon extremely userful.

--> 3
Outside of Trick Room, this mon got quite a bit of threats that could punish it. In Trick Room, it is just as threatening as a full HP Eruption or Psy Spam. Not having to worry about Spore is a plus.

--> 1
As long as it has the speed advantage, this mon is the meta's best late game sweeper. Probably only mons with Grassy Glide or Sucker Punch can safely confront it.

--> 3
Is everyone using AV on this mons? Having a TW user other than Tornadus is pretty neat. Set up Stealth Rock and U-turn out. In my opinion, it is a fantastic momentum maker.

 

[Actuarily]

It’s getting time for the first VR slate since the Teal Mask DLC, so consider this a last call for nominations! The slate will be put together Monday, so please get your nominations in this weekend!

 

[ratpacker]

UBER -> 3 : Not an Ogerpon or Basculegion check
2 -> UR : Goodbye
4 -> 3 : OHKOs Basculegion
5 -> 3 : OHKOs Basculegion
2 -> 3 : Not an Ogerpon or Basculegion check
5 -> 4 : Is good into at least 3 Ogerpons and one Flutter Mane
4 -> 3 : Can OHKO Ogerpon and Tornadus
NEW -> 4 Can OHKO Ogerpon-Heartflame and Basculegion so it can't be bad
4 -> 5 : Dies to Ogerpon and Basculegion
5 -> 4 : Can outspeed Ogerpon and Basculegion
4 -> 5 : There's already Ogerpon on my sun team
NEW -> 4 : An Ogerpon resist with very specific team requirements
NEW -> 4 : Great support for Pokemon that are not Ogerpon or Basculegion

...

The meta is getting back to early Home meta where Basculegion was everywhere and anything that can outspeed it or use priority to beat it automatically gets higher in the VR