Teals
Banned deucer.
It was common in ss on pivot heavy mons with a rock weakness. I.e. Incineroar and volcanion. I don't think many sv mons have a need for it rn
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Resource SV Doubles OU Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Actuarily
- Start date
Decently enough, hazard removers and some mons weak to them often carry them
The VR Council has voted on the first VR slate post-home! As this is a very fresh metagame, this may be thought of as preliminary viability rankings, but with OSDT around the corner we felt it was important to have this resource as up to date as possible.
We voted on all Pokémon previously on the VR as well as all additions to the tier. With this many Pokémon to vote on, we only casted numeric votes and did not provide written reasonings.
Also, YoBuddy has asked to drop from the VR council, and so was not included in this vote. We want to thank him for his past work in helping put together the viability rankings! We are looking to fill this spot, people who would like to be considered can do so by making nominations in this thread/other general forum activity, as well as strong tour performances.
Onto the votes:
Changes:
T1 -> T2
T1 -> T2
T1 -> T2
T2 -> T5
T2 -> T3
T2 -> T3
T2 -> T3
T2 -> T4
T2 -> T4
T2 -> T5
T3 -> T4
T3 -> T4
T3 -> T4
T3 -> T4
T4 -> T5
T4 -> UR
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> UR
T4 -> T5
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> T4
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
Banned -> T1
New -> T4
New -> T5
New -> T5
New -> T5
New -> T2
New -> T2
New -> T4
New -> T4
New -> T5
New -> T4
New -> T2
New -> T3
New -> T4
New -> T4
New -> T2
New -> T4
New -> T5
New -> T3
New -> T2
New -> T2
New -> T4
New -> T3
New -> T2
New -> T1
New -> T4
New -> T5
New -> T5
New -> T5
We voted on all Pokémon previously on the VR as well as all additions to the tier. With this many Pokémon to vote on, we only casted numeric votes and did not provide written reasonings.
Also, YoBuddy has asked to drop from the VR council, and so was not included in this vote. We want to thank him for his past work in helping put together the viability rankings! We are looking to fill this spot, people who would like to be considered can do so by making nominations in this thread/other general forum activity, as well as strong tour performances.
Onto the votes:
Changes:
T1 -> T2 T1 -> T2 T1 -> T2 T2 -> T5 T2 -> T3 T2 -> T3 T2 -> T3 T2 -> T4 T2 -> T4 T2 -> T5 T3 -> T4 T3 -> T4 T3 -> T4 T3 -> T4 T4 -> T5 T4 -> UR T4 -> T5 T4 -> T5 T4 -> T5 T4 -> UR T4 -> T5 T5 -> UR T5 -> UR T5 -> UR T5 -> UR T5 -> UR T5 -> UR T5 -> UR T5 -> UR T5 -> T4 T5 -> UR T5 -> UR T5 -> UR T5 -> UR Banned -> T1 New -> T4 New -> T5 New -> T5 New -> T5 New -> T2 New -> T2 New -> T4 New -> T4 New -> T5 New -> T4 New -> T2 New -> T3 New -> T4 New -> T4 New -> T2 New -> T4 New -> T5 New -> T3 New -> T2 New -> T2 New -> T4 New -> T3 New -> T2 New -> T1 New -> T4 New -> T5 New -> T5 New -> T5
I know the VR came out mere hours ago, but I'd like to make some noms anyway:
2 --> 1
the bear is broken, please ban the bear
2 --> 1
2 --> 1
These go together because I think they have similar places in the meta: they are the defining two speed control Pokemon. If you're not using one, you're probably using the other. Tornadus offers Prankster Tailwind, powerful offense with Bleakwind Storm, and pretty much whatever else you want in the third slot. Cresselia is pretty one note, but Lunar Blessing made it easily the best TR setter in the format, despite the nerf to its bulk. It's worth noting that both of these float, so Ursaluna can run Earthquake alongside them!
3 --> 2
This Pokemon is just as reliable as it's always been. Steam Eruption actually threatens Ursaluna (unlike Heatran, who's forced to Tera), it forces Urshifu-R to think a little more carefully, and it just generally has good matchups across the board, with not a lot of actual answers in the current top 3 tiers. It's also just about the best check to Iron Bundle we could ever possibly get.
4 --> 3
I think Wo-Chien is legitimately very good right now. It takes less from Ursaluna Facade than even some Normal resists, walls Basculegion until the end of time, and carries on the great legacy of "you can't kill me so now I win with Leech Seed" from Ferrothorn in the past. It loses a couple points for still being a bit of a Terastal hog, but that's just how it goes when you're Grass/Dark.
More stuff I think might be ranked too low, but can't come up with an argument for right now:
Hoopa-U should be ranked, probably tier 4 or 5, but I'm too lazy to write up:
2 --> 3
This isn't a nom. This is what the VR crew ranked it as, but when the original post was updated, Gholdengo was still in tier 2. I fixed it :) fwiw I think tier 3 is probably correct for Gholdengo.
2 --> 3
Rillaboom is fine. I don't think it's tier 2. With the genies and Cresselia back from their hiatus, a lot of the format's best Pokemon don't benefit from Grassy Terrain any more, and now that it doesn't have the second strongest priority move in the game any more (only beaten by Yveltal last gen! seriously, Glide is broken!), it's kind of just a good utility Pokemon. Wood Hammer does big damage, Fake Out and U-turn are Fake Out and U-turn, but I don't think it really has much else to offer. It has some good matchups, but it has plenty of poor ones too. Knock Off is cool, I guess.
3 --> 4
I tried this for a whole two games, which I know isn't much, but it only took me those two games to realize this Pokemon is just completely invalidated by Cresselia. It hits you super effective without making contact, and Lunar Blessing undoes all your hard work with Mortal Spin and Toxic Debris. I think it still has a niche in threatening Tornadus and Chi-Yu, but I wouldn't count on it to do much more than that.
4 --> 5
I hate to do this to my guy, but I cannot see a reason to run Great Tusk right now. Why would I run this when Cresselia, Flutter Mane, Tornadus, Landorus-T, Urshifu-R, Rillaboom, and Basculegion all have such strong matchups into it? When Ursaluna eclipses it? Don't get me wrong, Great Tusk is still a threat in battle, but I see no reason to specifically prepare for Great Tusk in the teambuilder, nor do I see one to use it.
Stuff I think might be ranked too high, but only by vibes:
2 --> 1the bear is broken, please ban the bear
2 --> 1 2 --> 1These go together because I think they have similar places in the meta: they are the defining two speed control Pokemon. If you're not using one, you're probably using the other. Tornadus offers Prankster Tailwind, powerful offense with Bleakwind Storm, and pretty much whatever else you want in the third slot. Cresselia is pretty one note, but Lunar Blessing made it easily the best TR setter in the format, despite the nerf to its bulk. It's worth noting that both of these float, so Ursaluna can run Earthquake alongside them!
3 --> 2This Pokemon is just as reliable as it's always been. Steam Eruption actually threatens Ursaluna (unlike Heatran, who's forced to Tera), it forces Urshifu-R to think a little more carefully, and it just generally has good matchups across the board, with not a lot of actual answers in the current top 3 tiers. It's also just about the best check to Iron Bundle we could ever possibly get.
4 --> 3I think Wo-Chien is legitimately very good right now. It takes less from Ursaluna Facade than even some Normal resists, walls Basculegion until the end of time, and carries on the great legacy of "you can't kill me so now I win with Leech Seed" from Ferrothorn in the past. It loses a couple points for still being a bit of a Terastal hog, but that's just how it goes when you're Grass/Dark.
More stuff I think might be ranked too low, but can't come up with an argument for right now:
Hoopa-U should be ranked, probably tier 4 or 5, but I'm too lazy to write up:
2 --> 3This isn't a nom. This is what the VR crew ranked it as, but when the original post was updated, Gholdengo was still in tier 2. I fixed it :) fwiw I think tier 3 is probably correct for Gholdengo.
2 --> 3Rillaboom is fine. I don't think it's tier 2. With the genies and Cresselia back from their hiatus, a lot of the format's best Pokemon don't benefit from Grassy Terrain any more, and now that it doesn't have the second strongest priority move in the game any more (only beaten by Yveltal last gen! seriously, Glide is broken!), it's kind of just a good utility Pokemon. Wood Hammer does big damage, Fake Out and U-turn are Fake Out and U-turn, but I don't think it really has much else to offer. It has some good matchups, but it has plenty of poor ones too. Knock Off is cool, I guess.
3 --> 4I tried this for a whole two games, which I know isn't much, but it only took me those two games to realize this Pokemon is just completely invalidated by Cresselia. It hits you super effective without making contact, and Lunar Blessing undoes all your hard work with Mortal Spin and Toxic Debris. I think it still has a niche in threatening Tornadus and Chi-Yu, but I wouldn't count on it to do much more than that.
4 --> 5I hate to do this to my guy, but I cannot see a reason to run Great Tusk right now. Why would I run this when Cresselia, Flutter Mane, Tornadus, Landorus-T, Urshifu-R, Rillaboom, and Basculegion all have such strong matchups into it? When Ursaluna eclipses it? Don't get me wrong, Great Tusk is still a threat in battle, but I see no reason to specifically prepare for Great Tusk in the teambuilder, nor do I see one to use it.
Stuff I think might be ranked too high, but only by vibes:
With the release of home I shall share my thoughts on one of the new pokes Hoopa-U which should be ranked t5 or UR imo if Flutter gets re banned (idt it will) maybe t4 but rn too many darks and flutter makes a verry hostile environment for it as well as a Ursa test on the horizon which if it is to be banned would be a big blow to Tr the best use of Hoopa imo and it can be used on Tw I think torn should be banned too soo thats off the table (soon I hope) and even ignoring the fact you cant hit many good mons because they are dark you need Sash to be able to set up TR and also Life Orb to be able to even 2hko things Gogs is also an option but Amoong does 1/2 with Ppuff LOL so over all its a verry unfortune poke and there are far better Darks, Psychics, and Tr setters.
252+ Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ursaluna: 263-309 (56.6 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ursaluna: 202-238 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 481-567 (159.8 - 188.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO Slower than you in TR by the way even with low Atk investment still wrecks sadly
252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 242-288 (53.8 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 314-372 (63.8 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO This one isnt too bad thankfully
252+ Atk Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 342-403 (113.6 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 342-403 (93.9 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO huh
252+ Atk Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 100 HP / 156 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 276-325 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Allows you to run 252+ Atk
252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Diancie: 127-150 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Diancie: 165-195 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 153-183 (50.3 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 118-141 (38.8 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 0 Def Diancie Body Press vs. 0 HP / 152 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 198-234 (65.7 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Def Diancie Body Press vs. 0 HP / 152 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 100-118 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Diancie Play Rough vs. 100 HP / 152 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 326-386 (100 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Diancie Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 408-480 (135.5 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO 90% Acu also your crazy for running PR Dia
0 SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 164-194 (54.4 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 169-199 (56.1 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 100 HP / 152 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 136-162 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Cresselia: 314-372 (70.7 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Cresselia: 408-484 (91.8 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 88-104 (29.2 - 34.5%) -- 3.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 285-335 (73.8 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 219-258 (56.7 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO If multiscale it's even worse 252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 331-390 (109.9 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 100 HP / 152 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 268-316 (82.2 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 221-260 (73.4 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Of course if terraed or Sword of Ruined its a horrid calc
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 247-292 (82 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 247-292 (82 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO This one is odd but you cant even do anything back unless Gunk or Drain Punch
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 60 HP / 108 Def Flutter Mane: 286-337 (107.5 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
148 SpA Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 236-282 (78.4 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Using the old Wcup spread
+1 0 SpA Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 318-374 (105.6 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO 0 invest needed for Specs
112 SpA Life Orb Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 304-359 (100.9 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO min for Orb/ Spa Booster but thats unrealistic to be running that little if Spa boosting becuase you would be stupid slow
252+ SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 331-391 (109.9 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO Orb needs modest to grantee even
252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 255-301 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO Scarf
+1 252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 210-247 (69.7 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 264-312 (87.7 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 348-411 (115.6 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 241-285 (80 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also a bit odd but you still can't touch it
252+ Atk Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound in Grassy Terrain: 411-484 (136.5 - 160.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Rillaboom U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 496-584 (164.7 - 194%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Insert joke here)
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 229-270 (67.1 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 298-351 (87.3 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Amoonguss: 398-470 (92.5 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO yikes
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 244 HP / 196+ Def Amoonguss: 320-380 (74.4 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Amoonguss: 517-611 (120.2 - 142%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 244 HP / 196+ Def Amoonguss: 416-494 (96.7 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 393-463 (90.9 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Amoonguss: 434-512 (100.4 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 302-356 (69.9 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Amoonguss: 428-506 (99 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO lol
0 SpA Amoonguss Pollen Puff vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 180-216 (59.8 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Kinda random but verry funny
0 SpA Wo-Chien Pollen Puff vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 200-236 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO LOL
252+ Atk Choice Band Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 156 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 481-567 (159.8 - 188.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO Slower than you in TR by the way even with low Atk investment still wrecks sadly
252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands: 242-288 (53.8 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 314-372 (63.8 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO This one isnt too bad thankfully
252+ Atk Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 342-403 (113.6 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 342-403 (93.9 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO huh
252+ Atk Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 100 HP / 156 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 276-325 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Allows you to run 252+ Atk
252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Diancie: 127-150 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Diancie: 165-195 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 153-183 (50.3 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 118-141 (38.8 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 0 Def Diancie Body Press vs. 0 HP / 152 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 198-234 (65.7 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Def Diancie Body Press vs. 0 HP / 152 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 100-118 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Diancie Play Rough vs. 100 HP / 152 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 326-386 (100 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Diancie Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 408-480 (135.5 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO 90% Acu also your crazy for running PR Dia
0 SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 164-194 (54.4 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 169-199 (56.1 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 100 HP / 152 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 136-162 (41.7 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Cresselia: 314-372 (70.7 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Cresselia: 408-484 (91.8 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Cresselia Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 88-104 (29.2 - 34.5%) -- 3.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 285-335 (73.8 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 219-258 (56.7 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO If multiscale it's even worse 252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 331-390 (109.9 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 100 HP / 152 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 268-316 (82.2 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 221-260 (73.4 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Of course if terraed or Sword of Ruined its a horrid calc
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 247-292 (82 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 247-292 (82 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO This one is odd but you cant even do anything back unless Gunk or Drain Punch
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 60 HP / 108 Def Flutter Mane: 286-337 (107.5 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
148 SpA Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 236-282 (78.4 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Using the old Wcup spread
+1 0 SpA Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 318-374 (105.6 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO 0 invest needed for Specs
112 SpA Life Orb Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 304-359 (100.9 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO min for Orb/ Spa Booster but thats unrealistic to be running that little if Spa boosting becuase you would be stupid slow
252+ SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 331-391 (109.9 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO Orb needs modest to grantee even
252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 255-301 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO Scarf
+1 252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 210-247 (69.7 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 264-312 (87.7 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 348-411 (115.6 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 241-285 (80 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also a bit odd but you still can't touch it
252+ Atk Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound in Grassy Terrain: 411-484 (136.5 - 160.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Rillaboom U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 496-584 (164.7 - 194%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Insert joke here)
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 229-270 (67.1 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rillaboom: 298-351 (87.3 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Amoonguss: 398-470 (92.5 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO yikes
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 244 HP / 196+ Def Amoonguss: 320-380 (74.4 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Amoonguss: 517-611 (120.2 - 142%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 244 HP / 196+ Def Amoonguss: 416-494 (96.7 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 393-463 (90.9 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Amoonguss: 434-512 (100.4 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 302-356 (69.9 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Amoonguss: 428-506 (99 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO lol
0 SpA Amoonguss Pollen Puff vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 180-216 (59.8 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Kinda random but verry funny
0 SpA Wo-Chien Pollen Puff vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 200-236 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO LOL
Ready for some soon to be (or currently idk) laughable takes!
(Overall I like the VR, mostly some quibbles with lower tier mons lol)
2 --> 1
Very centralizing mon that imo generates unhealthy and uncompetitive gameplay. Lots of games come down to guess which slot Ursaluna will decide to take a kill in with extremely limited counterplay (which can often be circumvented). What separates Ursaluna from other one dimensional Trick Room sweepers are its extremely solid bulk which allows it to trade outside of TR as well. Support from the likes of Cresselia and Grimmsnarl serve to exasperate its strengths as well. I would absolutely be interested in at least a suspect test soon.
3 --> 2
An endgame nightmare that generates an insane amount of pressure. Its most natural fit is on rain, but has the flexibility to run Adaptability sets such as Choice Scarf or Assult Vest, which are probably better than Swift Swim variants tbh. It has enough bulk to trade with a lot of the tier, even without AV. Its easier than ever to gain speed control, and if your opponent loses key checks early Basc can often just kill everything with Last Respects.
3 --> 2
Agree with what Arctic said above: it trades well with a lot of the tier, can feasibly act as a stopgap to some of the most oppressive threats in the tier such as Chi-Yu + Flutter, Pao + Dnite, and Ursaluna. Also a great TR beneficiary, but can easily work without it.
4 --> 5
Maybe a bit premature, but it sits at a very awkward speed tier with poor bulk, I have not been impressed by this not matter what its trying to do, whether that be a Contrary abuser, Tailwind setter, or standard attacker.
4 --> UR
This just feels out-statted now. Priority blocking is nice in theory with the Genies + Rillaboom dropping, but it doesn't really threaten them (Rilla just U-turns for 50 prob). And with new TR setters in Cresselia and Diancie dropping, as well Indeedee still around, I'd be hard pressed to ever use this.
4 --> UR
I have only seen this mon be an active detriment to whatever team its on. Body Press sets play way too slow and the payoff isn't worth the investment, while other sets have still seemed too passive.
4 --> 3
I actually think this mon might have gotten better post-home, as it doesn't have to stare down an Iron Hands every game, and fighting coverage isn't that common. I've mostly been using Tera Dark with Swords Dance, which can run away with games very quickly. Its even easier to leverage Kingambit's great natural bulk in this meta, as it loves the healing from both Rillaboom and Cresselia. Assault Vest still trades well and serves as a great glue mon on teams that need a damage sponge.
4 --> 5
Another potentially premature drop. I feel like this guy hates the bulky Rillaboom/Lando-T balance stuff while also not having a strong enough matchup into the frail HO stuff to make it worthwhile.
5 --> 4
Bulky Nasty Plot can Just Win with the right support. Berserk + a healing partner such as Amoonguss or Cresselia is very fun. It can be a tera hog but makes great use of if. It also has enough utility in Tailwind and nice access to Snarl and Taunt for it to not be dead weight in matchups where it isn't great offensively.
5 --> 4
Basically does the same stuff in SS with Grassy Seed and the options of Nasty Plot, Wisp, and Taunt. Its better natural bulk makes it have a niche over Flutter on these teams, and it can absolutely steamroll through teams if left unchecked for even a couple turns. Access to coverage with Tera Blast gives it a new offensive dimension as well.
5 --> 4
+1 to what Arctic said, but there are now a lot more good mons that appreciate its ability than there were pre-home. Still a tera-hog and still pretty one dimensional, but it is very good at what it does.
UR --> 4
eragon11145 put me onto this mon and I reccomend people try it. It is very bulky with an Eviolite with an extremely good typing. Its a pure utility mon, but any of Intimidate, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Taunt, Icy Wind, and Haze can basically always get some value. Barb Barrage is great at spreading poison, which often racks up, even in a cress meta. A very solid utility mon with great role compression. Here is a replay that shows off Qwilfish a bit, as well as some other mons I nommed.
(Overall I like the VR, mostly some quibbles with lower tier mons lol)
2 --> 1Very centralizing mon that imo generates unhealthy and uncompetitive gameplay. Lots of games come down to guess which slot Ursaluna will decide to take a kill in with extremely limited counterplay (which can often be circumvented). What separates Ursaluna from other one dimensional Trick Room sweepers are its extremely solid bulk which allows it to trade outside of TR as well. Support from the likes of Cresselia and Grimmsnarl serve to exasperate its strengths as well. I would absolutely be interested in at least a suspect test soon.
3 --> 2An endgame nightmare that generates an insane amount of pressure. Its most natural fit is on rain, but has the flexibility to run Adaptability sets such as Choice Scarf or Assult Vest, which are probably better than Swift Swim variants tbh. It has enough bulk to trade with a lot of the tier, even without AV. Its easier than ever to gain speed control, and if your opponent loses key checks early Basc can often just kill everything with Last Respects.
3 --> 2Agree with what Arctic said above: it trades well with a lot of the tier, can feasibly act as a stopgap to some of the most oppressive threats in the tier such as Chi-Yu + Flutter, Pao + Dnite, and Ursaluna. Also a great TR beneficiary, but can easily work without it.
4 --> 5Maybe a bit premature, but it sits at a very awkward speed tier with poor bulk, I have not been impressed by this not matter what its trying to do, whether that be a Contrary abuser, Tailwind setter, or standard attacker.
4 --> URThis just feels out-statted now. Priority blocking is nice in theory with the Genies + Rillaboom dropping, but it doesn't really threaten them (Rilla just U-turns for 50 prob). And with new TR setters in Cresselia and Diancie dropping, as well Indeedee still around, I'd be hard pressed to ever use this.
4 --> URI have only seen this mon be an active detriment to whatever team its on. Body Press sets play way too slow and the payoff isn't worth the investment, while other sets have still seemed too passive.
4 --> 3I actually think this mon might have gotten better post-home, as it doesn't have to stare down an Iron Hands every game, and fighting coverage isn't that common. I've mostly been using Tera Dark with Swords Dance, which can run away with games very quickly. Its even easier to leverage Kingambit's great natural bulk in this meta, as it loves the healing from both Rillaboom and Cresselia. Assault Vest still trades well and serves as a great glue mon on teams that need a damage sponge.
4 --> 5Another potentially premature drop. I feel like this guy hates the bulky Rillaboom/Lando-T balance stuff while also not having a strong enough matchup into the frail HO stuff to make it worthwhile.
5 --> 4Bulky Nasty Plot can Just Win with the right support. Berserk + a healing partner such as Amoonguss or Cresselia is very fun. It can be a tera hog but makes great use of if. It also has enough utility in Tailwind and nice access to Snarl and Taunt for it to not be dead weight in matchups where it isn't great offensively.
5 --> 4Basically does the same stuff in SS with Grassy Seed and the options of Nasty Plot, Wisp, and Taunt. Its better natural bulk makes it have a niche over Flutter on these teams, and it can absolutely steamroll through teams if left unchecked for even a couple turns. Access to coverage with Tera Blast gives it a new offensive dimension as well.
5 --> 4+1 to what Arctic said, but there are now a lot more good mons that appreciate its ability than there were pre-home. Still a tera-hog and still pretty one dimensional, but it is very good at what it does.
UR --> 4eragon11145 put me onto this mon and I reccomend people try it. It is very bulky with an Eviolite with an extremely good typing. Its a pure utility mon, but any of Intimidate, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Taunt, Icy Wind, and Haze can basically always get some value. Barb Barrage is great at spreading poison, which often racks up, even in a cress meta. A very solid utility mon with great role compression. Here is a replay that shows off Qwilfish a bit, as well as some other mons I nommed.
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4 -> 3Stone axe is 2 moves in 1. Tempo good. Even when it's not that good in the matchup, it's a perfectly fine suicide lead that can get some chip while setting up rocks akin to Glimmora. There are plenty of matchups where it's good though - an AV set is similar to Iron Hands in that it does well vs both Chi-Yu/Flutter and DNite/Chien-Pao offenses, and it can often rack up kills while setting up rocks there. It also threatens Cresselia for pretty massive damage with Sharpness-boosted X-Scissor in slower matchups.
Here are my OSDT games where I brought it - G1 it kinda just set rocks fine (this is what Glimmora does most games), and G2 it queued into offense and shredded a lot before going down.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-698190
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-698198
Kleavor @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Atk / 72 Def / 116 SpD / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Axe
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- X-Scissor
evs are entirely slider but have done well. feint, rock slide and tera blast are probably cool options.
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Atk / 72 Def / 116 SpD / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Axe
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- X-Scissor
evs are entirely slider but have done well. feint, rock slide and tera blast are probably cool options.
- Goodra is fine in 4, there are plenty of matchups where Acid Armor + BP literally Just Wins
- Kingambit is beyond incredible after banning both Urshifu forms, I personally think it's 2 but deserves 3 at minimum
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So with Ursaluna’s banning, it’s time for another VR Slate! This is a last call for nominations, we will be starting the vote on Sunday the 2nd of July, so get your nominations in before then!
Also some VR council news: YoBuddy has asked to drop from the VR Council. We thank him for all his work towards the viability rankings! bage1 has agreed to fill in his place! bage1 has been a great contributor and we know they’ll do a great job helping with the VR!
Also some VR council news: YoBuddy has asked to drop from the VR Council. We thank him for all his work towards the viability rankings! bage1 has agreed to fill in his place! bage1 has been a great contributor and we know they’ll do a great job helping with the VR!
A few noms, trying not to repeat any
—>1
Personally, I think this is easily among the top 3 Pokémon in the format. I know that sounds insane, but priority block has almost totally fallen off and the return of rillaboom enables the bulk up set to an extent that has never been seen before. Most teams right now are not prepared to handle it, and I’ve seen it used to just easily clean through games, as well as abused it the last few weeks. You can also still run other sets effectively like Scarf, Band, and Mystic Water. I think this Pokémon has gotten better, not worse, with the new additions and it should be reflected as such.
3->2
The good old Chien-Nite duo is still going strong, and I don’t really see this belonging in T3. Espeed is just absurdly powerful next to Pao and all teams need to have an answer. I think the widespread use of it on hyper offense structures warrants it in t2, although per usual I think it kind of requires being next to Chien-Pao and that does hold it back somewhat.
2 —> 4
Who? Iron bundle is very inconsistent in this metagame and has barely seen much play. It was so good pre home due to being one of the best speed control options available, but now we have tornadus to fill that role much more consistently and iron bundle also struggles heavily into the rise of trick room with cresselia. I don’t think there’s nearly enough usage to warrant T2, you could argue 3 but I think 4 is a better placement for it for now. I do think it gets a little better if some of the powerhouses like Ursaluna and Flutter get banned, but even then I don’t see it returning to its metagame-level dominance like it had in the last few months of pre home.
—>1Personally, I think this is easily among the top 3 Pokémon in the format. I know that sounds insane, but priority block has almost totally fallen off and the return of rillaboom enables the bulk up set to an extent that has never been seen before. Most teams right now are not prepared to handle it, and I’ve seen it used to just easily clean through games, as well as abused it the last few weeks. You can also still run other sets effectively like Scarf, Band, and Mystic Water. I think this Pokémon has gotten better, not worse, with the new additions and it should be reflected as such.
3->2The good old Chien-Nite duo is still going strong, and I don’t really see this belonging in T3. Espeed is just absurdly powerful next to Pao and all teams need to have an answer. I think the widespread use of it on hyper offense structures warrants it in t2, although per usual I think it kind of requires being next to Chien-Pao and that does hold it back somewhat.
2 —> 4Who? Iron bundle is very inconsistent in this metagame and has barely seen much play. It was so good pre home due to being one of the best speed control options available, but now we have tornadus to fill that role much more consistently and iron bundle also struggles heavily into the rise of trick room with cresselia. I don’t think there’s nearly enough usage to warrant T2, you could argue 3 but I think 4 is a better placement for it for now. I do think it gets a little better if some of the powerhouses like Ursaluna and Flutter get banned, but even then I don’t see it returning to its metagame-level dominance like it had in the last few months of pre home.
Teals
Banned deucer.
5 -> 4This mon is actually really good. It pairs up really well with Diancie being able to threaten Rillaboom and Landorus. Having access to tera gives it massive snowball potential under trick room, and with the only good intimidator being lando-t, it doesn't struggle to achieve this. It has the ability to speed tie amoonguss in tr, which basically forces a tera on Amoong if opp doesn't want to risk their best way at countering tr.
Quite a few noms, some parroted from other posts, gonna be a bit of a long one.
T3 -> T2
I'm inclined to agree with Eragon on raising this one, this thing gained a LOT after home dropped, with almost all forms of priority blocking falling out of favor in the tier, it's become one of the top 5 mons for me. It's had a dominant run on a number of screens teams, finding a home alongside and either or as an incredibly bulky Water/Grass/Fire core, especially abusing grassy terrain and fake out support from to set up and become incredibly diffcult to remove under screens. It matches up very favorably into the big threats of Flutter, chi yu, and Chien pao, hitting them all extremely hard and not being particularly threatened in return, and not bulk up drain punch sets being particularly walled by anything in the tier after a few boosts aside from Basculegion. An argument can be made for tier 1 but I'm not fully sold on this mon being universally applicable to any team, unlike my next nom.
T2 -> T1
This mon may have lost grassy glide, but it's still the king of being a bulky pivot that can threaten and annoy nearly anything. As OSDT has continued Rilla's been seen on more and more teams; reaching a 33% userate in week 2 with no signs of that number decreasing soon, being an absolute staple on balance and bulky Offense for its fake out support and grassy terrain healing. It can be a menacing bulky backbone of a good few hyperoffense teams that greatly appreciate it's pivoting, fake outs, and absurdly strong wood hammers that can demolish mons like
and that may otherwise pose problems for such teams. I've even seen it on trick room team, who appreciate it for the aforementioned reasons and it's valuable grass typing to block sleep from 
while being able to easily generate momentum for its partners off a switch in. I can't see a real reason not to run this pokemon on any team as glue right now given its sheer dominance over terrain setting, great offensive, supportive, and defensive profiles and access to moves like taunt brick break u-turn fake out and the now rare knock off that always allow it to perform and compress a number of roles for its team.
T3 -> T2
A terrifying late game threat that also offers strong wallbreaking and revenge killing in the mid-game, Basculegion's seen use on a number of teams as a terrifying presence that demands respect in the builder. Scarf, Rain, and even AV sets make use of this mons fantastic offensive typing and moves and it's solid bulk on a wide variety of teams that I think make it worthy of being T2.
T2 -> T4
Only really seeing use on fanroom, bundle is a shell of it's pre-home self in the current metagame, unable to adequately threaten many common mons, and being far less effective at speed control with Tornadus and Cress around.
T5 -> T4
A very competent trick room abuser that I suspect will be more prevalent in the wake of's ban as a bulky behemoth that can get out of hand if not played around right.
T4 -> T3
A real standout on Hyper offense, balance and hazards for it's raw damage output, great matchups into common speed control mons in the tier, surprisingly fantastic utility movepool with the option to set rocks, abuse STAB u-turn, set tailwind, and even abuse feint on AV sets to ruin many a protect play. A great mon that can fit on a variety of teams with Scarf, sash and AV sets and a good bit of potential yet to be seen that may yet take it even higher in the future.
UR -> T5
This thing is a surprisingly competent hazards spammer, with access to taunt, haze, memento and intimidate to halt many forms of progress opponents may try to make against it. Its outstanding typing and eviolite give it surprising bulk, making it a valuable switch in with intimidate and barb barrage gives it a means to hit the ever-increasingly common grass teras in the tier and Rillaboom for decent damage, especially if the target's already poisoned. A mon with a very solid niche on hazards stack teams but ultimately fails to see much legitimate use outside of such a strategy.
T4 -> T3
OSDT has shown that Gambit is still a very potent threat, both under trick room and screens teams that even a balance team made it to the sample list.
T4 -> T5
While tera seems to have boosted this mon even higher than last gen on paper, the reality is that it's almost entirely outclassed at any niche it may wish to perform by the ever-present , who abuses tera better, does more damage, and has the potential to be in a faster speed tier. and invalidate it outright in many situations at speed control, or even icy wind and the lowly for such a role, it's bulk is nonexistent and with so little priority control in the tier now, that really hurts it. There's overallvery little reason to use this thing outside of being a decently hard hitting fast electric type attacker into the many waters and flyings in the tier now, but even then many common metagame threats can outdo it with their own neutral hits
UR -> T5
A very competent tera normal espeed abuser next to pao that can offer much more powerful hits over alternative options to strike with thanks to rock head flare blitz and head smash that from my experience gives it a useful niche over on Hyper Offensive teams that appreciate the offensive rock typing and its great resistances to Fire and especially fairy moves that allow it to switch in and stay in on some prominent meta threats. It's ability to wall break , something many other offensive threats struggle with, gives it a nice niche in some scenarios on top of the aforementioned reasons.
T3 -> T2I'm inclined to agree with Eragon on raising this one, this thing gained a LOT after home dropped, with almost all forms of priority blocking falling out of favor in the tier, it's become one of the top 5 mons for me. It's had a dominant run on a number of screens teams, finding a home alongside
and either or as an incredibly bulky Water/Grass/Fire core, especially abusing grassy terrain and fake out support from to set up and become incredibly diffcult to remove under screens. It matches up very favorably into the big threats of Flutter, chi yu, and Chien pao, hitting them all extremely hard and not being particularly threatened in return, and not bulk up drain punch sets being particularly walled by anything in the tier after a few boosts aside from Basculegion. An argument can be made for tier 1 but I'm not fully sold on this mon being universally applicable to any team, unlike my next nom. T2 -> T1This mon may have lost grassy glide, but it's still the king of being a bulky pivot that can threaten and annoy nearly anything. As OSDT has continued Rilla's been seen on more and more teams; reaching a 33% userate in week 2 with no signs of that number decreasing soon, being an absolute staple on balance and bulky Offense for its fake out support and grassy terrain healing. It can be a menacing bulky backbone of a good few hyperoffense teams that greatly appreciate it's pivoting, fake outs, and absurdly strong wood hammers that can demolish mons like
and that may otherwise pose problems for such teams. I've even seen it on trick room team, who appreciate it for the aforementioned reasons and it's valuable grass typing to block sleep from while being able to easily generate momentum for its partners off a switch in. I can't see a real reason not to run this pokemon on any team as glue right now given its sheer dominance over terrain setting, great offensive, supportive, and defensive profiles and access to moves like taunt brick break u-turn fake out and the now rare knock off that always allow it to perform and compress a number of roles for its team. T3 -> T2A terrifying late game threat that also offers strong wallbreaking and revenge killing in the mid-game, Basculegion's seen use on a number of teams as a terrifying presence that demands respect in the builder. Scarf, Rain, and even AV sets make use of this mons fantastic offensive typing and moves and it's solid bulk on a wide variety of teams that I think make it worthy of being T2.
T2 -> T4Only really seeing use on fanroom, bundle is a shell of it's pre-home self in the current metagame, unable to adequately threaten many common mons, and being far less effective at speed control with Tornadus and Cress around.
T5 -> T4A very competent trick room abuser that I suspect will be more prevalent in the wake of
's ban as a bulky behemoth that can get out of hand if not played around right. T4 -> T3A real standout on Hyper offense, balance and hazards for it's raw damage output, great matchups into common speed control mons in the tier, surprisingly fantastic utility movepool with the option to set rocks, abuse STAB u-turn, set tailwind, and even abuse feint on AV sets to ruin many a protect play. A great mon that can fit on a variety of teams with Scarf, sash and AV sets and a good bit of potential yet to be seen that may yet take it even higher in the future.
UR -> T5This thing is a surprisingly competent hazards spammer, with access to taunt, haze, memento and intimidate to halt many forms of progress opponents may try to make against it. Its outstanding typing and eviolite give it surprising bulk, making it a valuable switch in with intimidate and barb barrage gives it a means to hit the ever-increasingly common grass teras in the tier and Rillaboom for decent damage, especially if the target's already poisoned. A mon with a very solid niche on hazards stack teams but ultimately fails to see much legitimate use outside of such a strategy.
T4 -> T3OSDT has shown that Gambit is still a very potent threat, both under trick room and screens teams that even a balance team made it to the sample list.
T4 -> T5While tera seems to have boosted this mon even higher than last gen on paper, the reality is that it's almost entirely outclassed at any niche it may wish to perform by the ever-present
, who abuses tera better, does more damage, and has the potential to be in a faster speed tier. and invalidate it outright in many situations at speed control, or even icy wind and the lowly for such a role, it's bulk is nonexistent and with so little priority control in the tier now, that really hurts it. There's overallvery little reason to use this thing outside of being a decently hard hitting fast electric type attacker into the many waters and flyings in the tier now, but even then many common metagame threats can outdo it with their own neutral hits UR -> T5A very competent tera normal espeed abuser next to pao that can offer much more powerful hits over alternative options to strike with thanks to rock head flare blitz and head smash that from my experience gives it a useful niche over
on Hyper Offensive teams that appreciate the offensive rock typing and its great resistances to Fire and especially fairy moves that allow it to switch in and stay in on some prominent meta threats. It's ability to wall break , something many other offensive threats struggle with, gives it a nice niche in some scenarios on top of the aforementioned reasons.
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2 -> 1Face of Trick Room, incredibly versatile moveset with Icy Wind, Ally Switch, Lunar Blessing, Helping Hand, could even troll other Cress with Trick. Seen some people pair it with Dual Screens, that + Tera makes it practically unkillable. Even with Bear gone, TR is still very viable, and Cresselia is the embodiment of TR
3 -> 2Agree with Arctic and Bage1, bulky tank that enjoys good coverage on anything that isn't Dragonite, can run in TR or not, can be bulked up even more with AV.
2 -> 3This Pokemon is mediocre. Though it gains Flutter Mane again for its partner, there are plenty of checks to this duo. The metagame is overwhelmingly shaped by either Trick Room, which conventional Chi-Yu sets do not enjoy, or priority from Dnite/Palafin, which Chi-Yu just dies to. Many teams also have AV Fire-types in Heatran and Volcanion that put a giant roadblock in Chi-Yu's efforts to break. If your team is unprepared, you're still going to be losing to Flutter + Chi-Yu Hyper Offense, but it's not particularly hard to prepare for.
4 -> 3Grimmsnarl has been picking up in popularity over OSDT, ranking 18th in usage in both rounds so far. Screens + setup is a good way to hedge your matchup against both offensive teams and "sit there with Cress" teams. Though it lost Ursaluna, I don't see this being a huge loss for Screens teams, as Bulk Up Palafin, SD Kingambit, Goodra-H, and Moltres-Galar have all seen successful usage next to Grimmsnarl even in rounds where Ursa was unbanned.
Backing
to 2, to 2, and down.
UR -> 4Good Fake Out support, solid speed tier and dire claw is pretty good. Decent typing as well as a good move pool.
One last minute nom that I haven't seen anyone make but I think needs to be said.
T3 -> T4
The metagame is deeply hostile to this chunky boy right now. An abundance of rain water types, flying types that ignore it's ground stab and spikes, and its nuclear wood hammers, and offensive sets threating to nuke it on the special side leave ting lu with far too many threats to deal with than it can viable prepare for while not offering much Power or utility in return. It's niche as a phazer is useful into trick room, offering a mental herb-proof way to stop it from being set up; as is its inherently amazing ability for enabling a few teams like the somewhat common Ting Lu rain teams that exploit physically bulky threats, but at the end of the day ting lu wants to stack hazards, and as long as is around to ignore and heal off spikes and cleanse Toxic spikes for its teammates, and and generally outperform it for setting rocks, Ting lu will end up just being a more fringe mon anchoring a few teams that appreciate it's ability and anti-trick room capabilities and a staple on niche but admittedly decent hazard stack teams with /.
T3 -> T4The metagame is deeply hostile to this chunky boy right now. An abundance of rain water types, flying types that ignore it's ground stab and spikes,
and its nuclear wood hammers, and offensive sets threating to nuke it on the special side leave ting lu with far too many threats to deal with than it can viable prepare for while not offering much Power or utility in return. It's niche as a phazer is useful into trick room, offering a mental herb-proof way to stop it from being set up; as is its inherently amazing ability for enabling a few teams like the somewhat common Ting Lu rain teams that exploit physically bulky threats, but at the end of the day ting lu wants to stack hazards, and as long as is around to ignore and heal off spikes and cleanse Toxic spikes for its teammates, and and generally outperform it for setting rocks, Ting lu will end up just being a more fringe mon anchoring a few teams that appreciate it's ability and anti-trick room capabilities and a staple on niche but admittedly decent hazard stack teams with /.
Alright the voting has started, thanks to everyone who nominated. We’ll try to get the results out soon!
There were two nominations UR Pokemon that didn't include replays, which I didn’t catch, so this time we will include them on the low tier sweep. Please remember that when nominating a UR Pokémon that a replay needs to be included.
There were two nominations UR Pokemon that didn't include replays, which I didn’t catch, so this time we will include them on the low tier sweep. Please remember that when nominating a UR Pokémon that a replay needs to be included.
The Viability Rankings have been updated! Thank you to everyone who voted & nominated. Discuss your thoughts to the new VR below!
Nominations:
2 -> 1
2 -> 1
3 -> 2
4 -> 3
2 -> 3
3 -> 4
3 -> 2
4 -> 3
4 -> 5
4 -> 5
4 -> 5
UR -> 4
4 -> 3
3 -> 1
3 -> 2
2 -> 4
5 -> 4
4 -> 5
2 -> 3
4 -> 3
3 -> 4
5 -> 4
5 -> 4
4 -> 5
4 -> UR
4 -> UR
Changes:
UR -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T5 -> T4
T5 -> UR
T5 -> T4
T5 -> UR
T2 -> T3
T3 -> T2
T3 -> T4
T3 -> T2
T4 -> T3
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
UR -> T5
T3 -> T2
T2 -> T4
T5 -> T4
T4 -> T5
T2 -> T3
T3 -> T4
T5 -> T4
T5 -> T4
T4 -> UR
T4 -> UR
Nominations:
2 -> 1Actuarily: Tier 2. Prankster tailwind with real stats is still quite valueable, while not as valueable as when this nom was made. There are more bulkier teams around that are able to survive HO teams, but Torn can be valueable as a tailwind setter on non-HO teams as well.
Yoda2798: Tier 2. Teams relying on bulk, priority, and/or Trick Room have risen up a lot more as the meta has developed, making Tornadus feel like much less of a “must-have” to balance out opposing Tornadus. It’s still by far the best Tailwind setter, and an incredibly important Pokemon on certain teams, but there are plenty of teams where Tornadus is not so great and another Pokemon would be much better, making it not Tier 1.
Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Still a fine pokemon, but tailwind as a whole has become a lot less worthwhile as bulkier team archetypes rose up. Spread flying is nice but torn has to sack either bulk on HO teams and thus longevity, or damage and end up being too passive on the field. Neither are great sacrifices to make in the current bulky offense metagame with big setup/immediate chunky damage threats.
SMB: 3 or even 4, tornadus on its own is not a great pokemon, tailwind centered archetypes are not as good as they were a couple of week ago as well, bulk and priority is what is popular atm which leaves tornadus in a weird spot
JRL: T2. He is the best tailwind user of the format, with the ability to manually enter weather and avoid trick rooms, he is a great support and can be played on a wide variety of teams, I think tier 2 is his place.
Madaraaaa: T3. Really good tailwind setter, helps the team to have momentum but the meta is developing with many semiroom teams, and taunt is not enough to stop it. Also, offensively struggles vs many bulky pokemons (Tornadus often has only flying attack, and with not reliable accuracy), and seems too passive in some crucial turns.
Bage1: Tier 3. Prankster tailwind is great but Tornadus really struggles to set it up more than once a game, while also often being a momentum sap in tailwind. Tailwind also doesn’t feel super necessary in the meta with how common bulky offense and trick room teams are.
Yoda2798: Tier 2. Teams relying on bulk, priority, and/or Trick Room have risen up a lot more as the meta has developed, making Tornadus feel like much less of a “must-have” to balance out opposing Tornadus. It’s still by far the best Tailwind setter, and an incredibly important Pokemon on certain teams, but there are plenty of teams where Tornadus is not so great and another Pokemon would be much better, making it not Tier 1.
Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Still a fine pokemon, but tailwind as a whole has become a lot less worthwhile as bulkier team archetypes rose up. Spread flying is nice but torn has to sack either bulk on HO teams and thus longevity, or damage and end up being too passive on the field. Neither are great sacrifices to make in the current bulky offense metagame with big setup/immediate chunky damage threats.
SMB: 3 or even 4, tornadus on its own is not a great pokemon, tailwind centered archetypes are not as good as they were a couple of week ago as well, bulk and priority is what is popular atm which leaves tornadus in a weird spot
JRL: T2. He is the best tailwind user of the format, with the ability to manually enter weather and avoid trick rooms, he is a great support and can be played on a wide variety of teams, I think tier 2 is his place.
Madaraaaa: T3. Really good tailwind setter, helps the team to have momentum but the meta is developing with many semiroom teams, and taunt is not enough to stop it. Also, offensively struggles vs many bulky pokemons (Tornadus often has only flying attack, and with not reliable accuracy), and seems too passive in some crucial turns.
Bage1: Tier 3. Prankster tailwind is great but Tornadus really struggles to set it up more than once a game, while also often being a momentum sap in tailwind. Tailwind also doesn’t feel super necessary in the meta with how common bulky offense and trick room teams are.
2 -> 1Actuarily: Tier 2. It’s the premier TR setter, and is set-up Pokémon’s best friend with Lunar Blessing and Ally Switch. The only thing holding it back from Tier 1 is how deadweight it can be on the field, often allowing the opponent to just double target it’s ally.
Yoda2798: Tier 2. Lunar Blessing carries Cresselia in this meta, giving it a useful move to click on most turns, and providing a lot of value to the bulky Pokemon, especially setup, paired with it. Trick Room works well with many Pokemon that don’t strictly require Trick Room, such as Iron Hands, Kingambit, Volcanion, and Amoonguss; Trick Room also helps counter faster teams, especially those using Tornadus for Tailwind. Cresselia lacks offensive presence itself, but Lunar Blessing is so consistently useful that it avoids becoming too passive most of the time, and provides a lot of value with the right partners.
Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Still works fine and fits easily on a lot of teams, but far too passive and easy to ignore. Doesn’t actually do enough itself on the field. People have gotten a lot better at playing around lunar blessing support.
SMB: 3 as it should have been in the first slate, it’s relatively easy to shut down, as passive as it was in previous gens and easier to take down since most of the times it’s healing 25% instead of 50%. CM sets are probably better because of the lack of toxic but I wouldn’t say the improvement is too high.
JRL: T2. It is the other great speed control of the format (trick room, icy wind or t wave)
I think it is better than tornadus since it gives more support to the team with its great movepool (ally switch, helping hand...)
It also has great bulk and ability to heal health and status ailments to himself and his partner (lunar blessing) .Also his CM set is viable and can become a win condition.
Madaraaaa: T2. Almost impossible to shot, is a really good supporter and has a wide movepool. CM set could surprise and win, full support is also okay with lunar blessing. Needs good sinergy with the partner but is a really solid pokemon.
Bage1: Tier 3. A great enabler but is just way too passive and too easy to shut down with taunt. Very easy to ignore and play 2v1 against the partner. 100% needs to be respected in the builder or it can Just Win, but countermeasures are very easy to fit and bring value into non-cress teams as well.
Yoda2798: Tier 2. Lunar Blessing carries Cresselia in this meta, giving it a useful move to click on most turns, and providing a lot of value to the bulky Pokemon, especially setup, paired with it. Trick Room works well with many Pokemon that don’t strictly require Trick Room, such as Iron Hands, Kingambit, Volcanion, and Amoonguss; Trick Room also helps counter faster teams, especially those using Tornadus for Tailwind. Cresselia lacks offensive presence itself, but Lunar Blessing is so consistently useful that it avoids becoming too passive most of the time, and provides a lot of value with the right partners.
Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Still works fine and fits easily on a lot of teams, but far too passive and easy to ignore. Doesn’t actually do enough itself on the field. People have gotten a lot better at playing around lunar blessing support.
SMB: 3 as it should have been in the first slate, it’s relatively easy to shut down, as passive as it was in previous gens and easier to take down since most of the times it’s healing 25% instead of 50%. CM sets are probably better because of the lack of toxic but I wouldn’t say the improvement is too high.
JRL: T2. It is the other great speed control of the format (trick room, icy wind or t wave)
I think it is better than tornadus since it gives more support to the team with its great movepool (ally switch, helping hand...)
It also has great bulk and ability to heal health and status ailments to himself and his partner (lunar blessing) .Also his CM set is viable and can become a win condition.
Madaraaaa: T2. Almost impossible to shot, is a really good supporter and has a wide movepool. CM set could surprise and win, full support is also okay with lunar blessing. Needs good sinergy with the partner but is a really solid pokemon.
Bage1: Tier 3. A great enabler but is just way too passive and too easy to shut down with taunt. Very easy to ignore and play 2v1 against the partner. 100% needs to be respected in the builder or it can Just Win, but countermeasures are very easy to fit and bring value into non-cress teams as well.
3 -> 2Actuarily: Tier 2. It has so many good matchups, the only thing holding it back from tier 1 is how less valuable burns are with Lunar Blessing Cress around. It’s so good at just spreading around damage with great offensive typing like it always has. Also isn’t as reliant on Tera’ing like other fire types.
Yoda2798: Tier 2. I think Heatran is high Tier 2 and Volcanion is low Tier 2, both are pretty similar being bulky Fire-types but there’s a few key differences between them. Volcanion is a bit better without Tera, but Heatran is far better with it, with Tera Grass Heatran being a top threat. There’s also the fact that Heatran is weak to Water while Volcanion is immune and is one itself, which is kind of nice, but at the same time as SMB says there are other Water-types you want to use and would prefer to avoid type stacking, and Heatran’s weakness only half counts when it uses Tera so often. Despite Water immunity, Volcanion struggles to actually touch Water-types which limits its ability to check them, which again comparing to Heatran, can make use of Tera Blast to do so. So to wrap up, “slightly worse Heatran which relies less on Tera” is a pretty accurate summary of Volcanion.
Nido-Rus: Easy tier 2, top tier fire type that has a great resistance spread, solid bulk, and good offensive typing. Suffers a bit from being too passive into tera waters and the other two great water types, but those should naturally be accounted for elsewhere in your team.
SMB: 3, not a bad pokemon but the main things I have against it is that unless you’re stacking types you can’t play with this the best pokemon in the format and 2 way better water types so the teams it fits in are worse than the rest
JRL: T2. It has great bulk and a great type that helps against common pokes like flutter, chi yu, chien pao or palafin. It works and adapts to more offensive and semiroom teams which makes it very versatile, it also forces heatran to use the tera if he doesn't want to lose the 1 vs 1 which if you carry volca sludge bomb can hit him.
Madaraaaa: T3. Good typing and stats, can face multiple high tier pokemons without tera. But is slow, and there are better water and fire types, suffers hazards.
Bage1: Tier 2. Competes with Heatran for a bulky fire slot and is often worse, but needs Tera less and has a much better matchup into Palafin and Basculegion. Can pretty reliably handle both Chien Pao and Flutter Mane without needing to Tera.
Yoda2798: Tier 2. I think Heatran is high Tier 2 and Volcanion is low Tier 2, both are pretty similar being bulky Fire-types but there’s a few key differences between them. Volcanion is a bit better without Tera, but Heatran is far better with it, with Tera Grass Heatran being a top threat. There’s also the fact that Heatran is weak to Water while Volcanion is immune and is one itself, which is kind of nice, but at the same time as SMB says there are other Water-types you want to use and would prefer to avoid type stacking, and Heatran’s weakness only half counts when it uses Tera so often. Despite Water immunity, Volcanion struggles to actually touch Water-types which limits its ability to check them, which again comparing to Heatran, can make use of Tera Blast to do so. So to wrap up, “slightly worse Heatran which relies less on Tera” is a pretty accurate summary of Volcanion.
Nido-Rus: Easy tier 2, top tier fire type that has a great resistance spread, solid bulk, and good offensive typing. Suffers a bit from being too passive into tera waters and the other two great water types, but those should naturally be accounted for elsewhere in your team.
SMB: 3, not a bad pokemon but the main things I have against it is that unless you’re stacking types you can’t play with this the best pokemon in the format and 2 way better water types so the teams it fits in are worse than the rest
JRL: T2. It has great bulk and a great type that helps against common pokes like flutter, chi yu, chien pao or palafin. It works and adapts to more offensive and semiroom teams which makes it very versatile, it also forces heatran to use the tera if he doesn't want to lose the 1 vs 1 which if you carry volca sludge bomb can hit him.
Madaraaaa: T3. Good typing and stats, can face multiple high tier pokemons without tera. But is slow, and there are better water and fire types, suffers hazards.
Bage1: Tier 2. Competes with Heatran for a bulky fire slot and is often worse, but needs Tera less and has a much better matchup into Palafin and Basculegion. Can pretty reliably handle both Chien Pao and Flutter Mane without needing to Tera.
4 -> 3Actuarily: T5. It has a small niche, but something like Amoonguss is almost always better. There’s wayyy too much that hits Grass + Dark now, so it basically always has to Tera, and there are better defensive wincons.
Yoda2798: Tier 5. Wo-Chien still suffers the same problem as before, everything hits it super effectively which necessitates Tera to do anything at all, and even with Tera it’s not especially great, other Pokemon serve much better as defensive win conditions with and without Tera. U-Turn being so big now, especially with Rillaboom being immune to Leech Seed too, is really the nail in the coffin. Very few teams can even think about picking Wo-Chien, and even when it’s an option, it’s not that great.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4, if anything it’s lost relevance with ursaluna ban. I can see it in theory but all the u-turn, flutter, volcanion/heatran etc is not fun to build against. Too much of a tera hog and then too passive even when it has a good position. I want to see more replays with this.
SMB: 4, I think it is as good as ting lu, probably even better but 3 is just too much for a pokemon without reliable recovery and as passive as this one which is going to take your tera most times
JRL: T4. I think it's only viable on very defensive teams and it's very dependent on tera as it has many weaknesses. It is true that his ability is good, but it is difficult for him to withstand the strongest pokes in the format such as chien pao, flutter or heatran
Madaraaaa: T4. Difficult to use it in this meta, maybe only in particular teams. Has too many weaknesses and there are offensive threats too oppressive that destroy wo chien defense.
Bage1: Tier 5. Only fits on very specific team structures and even then it still wants to tera in just about every matchup. Loses too hard to too many major threats and it doesn’t beat anything hard enough to be worth higher.
Yoda2798: Tier 5. Wo-Chien still suffers the same problem as before, everything hits it super effectively which necessitates Tera to do anything at all, and even with Tera it’s not especially great, other Pokemon serve much better as defensive win conditions with and without Tera. U-Turn being so big now, especially with Rillaboom being immune to Leech Seed too, is really the nail in the coffin. Very few teams can even think about picking Wo-Chien, and even when it’s an option, it’s not that great.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4, if anything it’s lost relevance with ursaluna ban. I can see it in theory but all the u-turn, flutter, volcanion/heatran etc is not fun to build against. Too much of a tera hog and then too passive even when it has a good position. I want to see more replays with this.
SMB: 4, I think it is as good as ting lu, probably even better but 3 is just too much for a pokemon without reliable recovery and as passive as this one which is going to take your tera most times
JRL: T4. I think it's only viable on very defensive teams and it's very dependent on tera as it has many weaknesses. It is true that his ability is good, but it is difficult for him to withstand the strongest pokes in the format such as chien pao, flutter or heatran
Madaraaaa: T4. Difficult to use it in this meta, maybe only in particular teams. Has too many weaknesses and there are offensive threats too oppressive that destroy wo chien defense.
Bage1: Tier 5. Only fits on very specific team structures and even then it still wants to tera in just about every matchup. Loses too hard to too many major threats and it doesn’t beat anything hard enough to be worth higher.
2 -> 3Actuarily: T2. Yoda nailed it. While there is a lot that pressures it, the utility Rillaboom provides is just top tier, and not much wants to take a Wood Hammer.
Yoda2798: Tier 2. If anything this is on the verge of pushing into Tier 1, as one of the most splashable Pokemon in the tier and reflected by OSDT usage, even without Grassy Glide. Rillaboom still otherwise does the pivot things it did before, having great survivability with Assault Vest and Grassy Terrain while it comes in, Fakes Out, then U-Turns out again. Wood Hammer is a big threat, especially with no Incineroar around, notably dropping even bulky Flutter Mane in one hit, with Rillaboom able to check Flutter Mane as a result in combination with its bulk. The last slot is pretty flexible and has several useful options depending on what the team needs, such as Taunt for Trick Room, Brick Break for screens, or Knock Off for item removal. Rillaboom is basically never a bad addition to a team, adding a valuable combination of utility, damage, and bulk.
Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Incredibly splashable, grass is a really good offensive type right now even without grassy glide. Virtually uncontested grassy terrain is amazing for bulky teams. Solid easy utility mon that fits everywhere.
SMB: 2, grassy terrain is part of the reason why bulky teams are that good + trades well with a lot of stuff
JRL: T2. I think that in addition to supporting the team, it also has offensive presence and great bulk with AV that helps it against special attackers and can hit them back later. The grass field pairs well with the bulkier pokes in the format, making it very important in semiroom archetypes.
Madaraaaa: T2. Other members explained well. Versatile, helps bulky teams with fout, pivoting and grassy terrain, and has a strong grass move that is not easy to take.
Bage1: Tier 2. Maybe the best utility mon in the tier. Grassy Terrain enables setup better than anything else in the tier while Fake Out, Taunt, Knock Off, Brick Break, U-turn are always valuable. There are only like 3 pokemon that are really ok switching into Wood Hammer even without much attack investment on Rilla.
Yoda2798: Tier 2. If anything this is on the verge of pushing into Tier 1, as one of the most splashable Pokemon in the tier and reflected by OSDT usage, even without Grassy Glide. Rillaboom still otherwise does the pivot things it did before, having great survivability with Assault Vest and Grassy Terrain while it comes in, Fakes Out, then U-Turns out again. Wood Hammer is a big threat, especially with no Incineroar around, notably dropping even bulky Flutter Mane in one hit, with Rillaboom able to check Flutter Mane as a result in combination with its bulk. The last slot is pretty flexible and has several useful options depending on what the team needs, such as Taunt for Trick Room, Brick Break for screens, or Knock Off for item removal. Rillaboom is basically never a bad addition to a team, adding a valuable combination of utility, damage, and bulk.
Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Incredibly splashable, grass is a really good offensive type right now even without grassy glide. Virtually uncontested grassy terrain is amazing for bulky teams. Solid easy utility mon that fits everywhere.
SMB: 2, grassy terrain is part of the reason why bulky teams are that good + trades well with a lot of stuff
JRL: T2. I think that in addition to supporting the team, it also has offensive presence and great bulk with AV that helps it against special attackers and can hit them back later. The grass field pairs well with the bulkier pokes in the format, making it very important in semiroom archetypes.
Madaraaaa: T2. Other members explained well. Versatile, helps bulky teams with fout, pivoting and grassy terrain, and has a strong grass move that is not easy to take.
Bage1: Tier 2. Maybe the best utility mon in the tier. Grassy Terrain enables setup better than anything else in the tier while Fake Out, Taunt, Knock Off, Brick Break, U-turn are always valuable. There are only like 3 pokemon that are really ok switching into Wood Hammer even without much attack investment on Rilla.
3 -> 4Actuarily: T4. Has a small niche, but has so much more competition. T spikes aren’t as good due to Cress + a decent number of poison types & can be done by other mons, as a SR setter it competes with Kleavor & Lando-T. It’s typing is not bad at all however, I think offensive sets could have some greater play that could make it worthwhile.
Yoda2798: Tier 4. Agree with everything Actuarily said. Glimmora is first and foremost a Stealth Rock setter, and offensive teams will usually opt for Kleavor instead, with Landorus-Therian taking that role on bulkier teams. As others have said, Toxic Spikes are not super useful in this meta. Hazard removal is the most interesting thing about Glimmora to me right now, but it’s not enough to save it over the better options available for a hazards setter. Glimmora is no longer “THE hazards mon”, it’s simply an option for it, and a fairly lackluster one at that, looking at its competition.
Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Glimmora’s typing makes it particularly good against HO duos (pao dnite/chi yu flutter) and it just generally has good coverage into a lot of cress/bulky semiroom comps right now. Poisoning things is very valuable against these teams even with cress around because of how useful it is to make cress waste a turn being passive on the field.
SMB: 5, you just have to see how many ground weaknesses there were a couple of months ago and how many there are now (rillaboom included) to find out why tspikes are not that good, cress is a terrible matchup for it as well and it’s a pokemon that doesn’t last for too long and has lost a lot of its offensive potential, if you want it to set sr just pick a better pokemon
JRL: T4. I think it has lost great potential, since what it knew best was to put rocks + t spikes are nerfed by the presence of lunar blessing cresselia and by poison types like amoongus or qwilfish - hisui.
Madaraaaa: T3. Offensive glimmora still has potential in offensive teams. Good coverage (hits hard tornadus, chien pao, dnite, heatran, chi yu, rillaboom…), with sash in lead can trade a kill turn one. T spikes now are not so good but I think is not the main reason you want to have it in a team right now.
Bage1: Tier 3. Sash lead sets are less valuable than ever now with Cress on every other team, but Glimmora is still a nightmare matchup for a lot of the frail offense teams. Bulkier sets have seen more use leveraging its really good offensive coverage and solid defensive typing. With all the setup in the tier, poison is super valuable especially if Glimm’s partners can deny healing from Cresselia. Also the only usable mon that can viably remove hazards.
Yoda2798: Tier 4. Agree with everything Actuarily said. Glimmora is first and foremost a Stealth Rock setter, and offensive teams will usually opt for Kleavor instead, with Landorus-Therian taking that role on bulkier teams. As others have said, Toxic Spikes are not super useful in this meta. Hazard removal is the most interesting thing about Glimmora to me right now, but it’s not enough to save it over the better options available for a hazards setter. Glimmora is no longer “THE hazards mon”, it’s simply an option for it, and a fairly lackluster one at that, looking at its competition.
Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Glimmora’s typing makes it particularly good against HO duos (pao dnite/chi yu flutter) and it just generally has good coverage into a lot of cress/bulky semiroom comps right now. Poisoning things is very valuable against these teams even with cress around because of how useful it is to make cress waste a turn being passive on the field.
SMB: 5, you just have to see how many ground weaknesses there were a couple of months ago and how many there are now (rillaboom included) to find out why tspikes are not that good, cress is a terrible matchup for it as well and it’s a pokemon that doesn’t last for too long and has lost a lot of its offensive potential, if you want it to set sr just pick a better pokemon
JRL: T4. I think it has lost great potential, since what it knew best was to put rocks + t spikes are nerfed by the presence of lunar blessing cresselia and by poison types like amoongus or qwilfish - hisui.
Madaraaaa: T3. Offensive glimmora still has potential in offensive teams. Good coverage (hits hard tornadus, chien pao, dnite, heatran, chi yu, rillaboom…), with sash in lead can trade a kill turn one. T spikes now are not so good but I think is not the main reason you want to have it in a team right now.
Bage1: Tier 3. Sash lead sets are less valuable than ever now with Cress on every other team, but Glimmora is still a nightmare matchup for a lot of the frail offense teams. Bulkier sets have seen more use leveraging its really good offensive coverage and solid defensive typing. With all the setup in the tier, poison is super valuable especially if Glimm’s partners can deny healing from Cresselia. Also the only usable mon that can viably remove hazards.
3 -> 2Actuarily: T1. Scarf & Swift Swim are excellent late game cleaners, and despite the amount of sucker punch out there, it is able to maneuver around the things that are able to slow it down. Bascu also has good typing allowing it to beat a lot of the top set up mons right now too like bulk up Palafin and Goodra-H. Something that absolutely has to be accounted for in the builder.
Yoda2798: Tier 1. Choice Scarf Basculegion is a massive threat in every single endgame and becomes incredibly difficult to play around as Last Respects builds up, while Wave Crash carries it by until then (don’t let your Basculegion die early because of using it though). With Choice Scarf, it outspeeds practically everything unboosted in the metagame, and even has natural Fake Out immunity too. Sucker Punch can be tricky to deal with, but otherwise Basculegion can be near impossible to stop without speed control neutralising it. Choice Scarf requires basically no support and is always dominant in lategames, there’s good reason why it’s being suspect tested currently.
Nido-Rus: Tier 2, solid on rain, solid as a lategame scarf revenge killer. AV has been kind of meh lately since it often wants trick room up against certain threats but also loses to quite a few other things when trick room is up. Other sets are solid though.
SMB: 2, rlly good overall but nothing special on the first turns of the game, needs to be on either rain teams or be scarf since other sets get outspeed by stuff that can ohko it like rillaboom. It has the main disadvantages that a locked mon would have but fun mechanic tera somewhat fixes that
JRL: T2. It does well on rain teams having an X2 on speed or on the other hand with adaptability on offensive teams and balanced can hit very hard, especially at the end of games with last respect, which makes it have a great offensive presence.
Madaraaaa: T2. Stats a little disappointing, but with speed control in middle-final game can be unstoppable with last respect. Ghost type is immune to espeed, fake out and if you wanna sweep that's great. Scarf, goggles, life orb, I think are all valuable items depending on the team.
Bage1: Tier 1. Scarf and Swift Swim sets are extremely oppressive in the endgame, and it still exerts serious pressure with Wave Crash early. Last Respects becomes extremely difficult to play around after just 2 deaths. Its speed is still exploitable (booster flutter can outrun even jolly swift swim sets) and Sucker Punch pressure from Pao and Gambit can threaten it into awkward plays. It has passable bulk especially on the special side so even uninvested it can take a stray hit or 2. Absolutely must be accounted for in the builder, endgames revolve around this mon whenever it is in a game.
Yoda2798: Tier 1. Choice Scarf Basculegion is a massive threat in every single endgame and becomes incredibly difficult to play around as Last Respects builds up, while Wave Crash carries it by until then (don’t let your Basculegion die early because of using it though). With Choice Scarf, it outspeeds practically everything unboosted in the metagame, and even has natural Fake Out immunity too. Sucker Punch can be tricky to deal with, but otherwise Basculegion can be near impossible to stop without speed control neutralising it. Choice Scarf requires basically no support and is always dominant in lategames, there’s good reason why it’s being suspect tested currently.
Nido-Rus: Tier 2, solid on rain, solid as a lategame scarf revenge killer. AV has been kind of meh lately since it often wants trick room up against certain threats but also loses to quite a few other things when trick room is up. Other sets are solid though.
SMB: 2, rlly good overall but nothing special on the first turns of the game, needs to be on either rain teams or be scarf since other sets get outspeed by stuff that can ohko it like rillaboom. It has the main disadvantages that a locked mon would have but fun mechanic tera somewhat fixes that
JRL: T2. It does well on rain teams having an X2 on speed or on the other hand with adaptability on offensive teams and balanced can hit very hard, especially at the end of games with last respect, which makes it have a great offensive presence.
Madaraaaa: T2. Stats a little disappointing, but with speed control in middle-final game can be unstoppable with last respect. Ghost type is immune to espeed, fake out and if you wanna sweep that's great. Scarf, goggles, life orb, I think are all valuable items depending on the team.
Bage1: Tier 1. Scarf and Swift Swim sets are extremely oppressive in the endgame, and it still exerts serious pressure with Wave Crash early. Last Respects becomes extremely difficult to play around after just 2 deaths. Its speed is still exploitable (booster flutter can outrun even jolly swift swim sets) and Sucker Punch pressure from Pao and Gambit can threaten it into awkward plays. It has passable bulk especially on the special side so even uninvested it can take a stray hit or 2. Absolutely must be accounted for in the builder, endgames revolve around this mon whenever it is in a game.
4 -> 3Actuarily: T3. It can absolutely win games against unprepared opponents, but does require some careful positioning since there is plenty of fighting/dark/fire moves around. Does a good job checking some of the top threats, just has an exploitable typing, so it really wants to Tera.
Yoda2798: Tier 2. It’s extremely easy for Kingambit to get a Swords Dance up, after which it threatens massive pressure to practically everything other than its nemesis Iron Hands, with Sucker Punch being incredibly useful for all the faster Pokemon in the format. Pokemon like Rillaboom and Cresselia are excellent partners for enabling Kingambit and help utilise its healthy bulk even further. Kingambit is basically never bad, still hitting fairly hard even without a boost, and very often dictates the game if it can get one. Everybody knows about how good Black Glasses Tera Dark at this point, but there’s also other options like Safety Goggles to completely ignore Amoonguss, or Tera Fairy to better deal with Iron Hands, that can help provide something slightly different if you want it.
Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Solid consistent threat that produces a ton of pressure with SD and fits really well into current bulky offense archetypes. Tera dark helps fix weaknesses quite a bit.
SMB: 3 is fine, sd bulky sets benefit a lot from what’s popular atm and it has a strong priority move that fixes the bad speed. The bad typing having to be fixed with tera holds it down.
JRL: T3. Great bulk and great offensive presence, with SD it can put a lot of pressure since it has priority with sucker punch and it does it very well against common pokes like flutter, basculegion or cresselia and it also has defiant which makes you raise its attack when you intimidate it
Madaraaaa: T3. Dark sd set is really cool with screens and pressuring with the right team composition. Is a threat for intimidate, and is bulky enough to do huge damages.
Bage1: Tier 2. Can often steamroll games if it sets up a Swords Dance, taking OHKO’s that do not feel real with Tera Dark + Black Glasses. Puts a lot of onus on the opponent to outplay and is only really scared of Iron Hands on preview. The rise of Substitute on mons like Flutter Mane and Landorus isn’t good for Gambit, but doesn’t stop it from being a tier 2 mon.
Yoda2798: Tier 2. It’s extremely easy for Kingambit to get a Swords Dance up, after which it threatens massive pressure to practically everything other than its nemesis Iron Hands, with Sucker Punch being incredibly useful for all the faster Pokemon in the format. Pokemon like Rillaboom and Cresselia are excellent partners for enabling Kingambit and help utilise its healthy bulk even further. Kingambit is basically never bad, still hitting fairly hard even without a boost, and very often dictates the game if it can get one. Everybody knows about how good Black Glasses Tera Dark at this point, but there’s also other options like Safety Goggles to completely ignore Amoonguss, or Tera Fairy to better deal with Iron Hands, that can help provide something slightly different if you want it.
Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Solid consistent threat that produces a ton of pressure with SD and fits really well into current bulky offense archetypes. Tera dark helps fix weaknesses quite a bit.
SMB: 3 is fine, sd bulky sets benefit a lot from what’s popular atm and it has a strong priority move that fixes the bad speed. The bad typing having to be fixed with tera holds it down.
JRL: T3. Great bulk and great offensive presence, with SD it can put a lot of pressure since it has priority with sucker punch and it does it very well against common pokes like flutter, basculegion or cresselia and it also has defiant which makes you raise its attack when you intimidate it
Madaraaaa: T3. Dark sd set is really cool with screens and pressuring with the right team composition. Is a threat for intimidate, and is bulky enough to do huge damages.
Bage1: Tier 2. Can often steamroll games if it sets up a Swords Dance, taking OHKO’s that do not feel real with Tera Dark + Black Glasses. Puts a lot of onus on the opponent to outplay and is only really scared of Iron Hands on preview. The rise of Substitute on mons like Flutter Mane and Landorus isn’t good for Gambit, but doesn’t stop it from being a tier 2 mon.
4 -> 5Actuarily: T5. Like everyone else has said, it just has very exploitable typing right now that makes it tough to use outside of prankster tailwind. Still hits like a truck and has a good offensive typing, just isn’t good into a lot of the top threats.
Yoda2798: Tier 5. Incredibly hostile meta for Great Tusk, so many new Ground resists added, and struggles against the majority of the top Pokemon in the tier.
Nido-Rus: Tier 5, far too many ground switchins added with home, flutter is back, hates seeing cress. It can’t do much with EQ with grassy terrain around and just generally doesn’t accomplish enough, as a lead or a pivot or lategame cleaner.
SMB: 5, ground resists and immunities are a thing
JRL: T5. It has great offensive presence and good coverage, but there are more useful ground pokes in the meta that fit on a wider variety of teams than Tusk. The low visibility so far of sun teams makes it lose viability.
Madaraaaa: T4. Offensively has amazing coverage and can spin hazards. Not so good as before (flutter mane, rillaboom, cresselia are popular) but in some tailwind teams could be powerful.
Bage1: Tier 5. Actual ground resists/immunes and the return of Flutter Mane have not been kind to Tusk. Only really seen use as a scarfer/sash mon on Tailwind Teams where even then it usually just ends up trading 1 for 1.
Yoda2798: Tier 5. Incredibly hostile meta for Great Tusk, so many new Ground resists added, and struggles against the majority of the top Pokemon in the tier.
Nido-Rus: Tier 5, far too many ground switchins added with home, flutter is back, hates seeing cress. It can’t do much with EQ with grassy terrain around and just generally doesn’t accomplish enough, as a lead or a pivot or lategame cleaner.
SMB: 5, ground resists and immunities are a thing
JRL: T5. It has great offensive presence and good coverage, but there are more useful ground pokes in the meta that fit on a wider variety of teams than Tusk. The low visibility so far of sun teams makes it lose viability.
Madaraaaa: T4. Offensively has amazing coverage and can spin hazards. Not so good as before (flutter mane, rillaboom, cresselia are popular) but in some tailwind teams could be powerful.
Bage1: Tier 5. Actual ground resists/immunes and the return of Flutter Mane have not been kind to Tusk. Only really seen use as a scarfer/sash mon on Tailwind Teams where even then it usually just ends up trading 1 for 1.
4 -> 5Actuarily: T4. Absolutely hits like a truck and has a good movepool, but is reliant on speed control. Grassy seed sets are nice, but there is plenty of u-turn right now, and it’s not really able to hit the premier u-turn mons right now. Other sets like scarf/band/specs have a place, but it kinda wants to utilize its movepool.
Yoda2798: Tier 5. Hoopa-Unbound still hits hard and breaks Protect, but I think the meta developing has been bad for it. Rillaboom has picked up hard and can U-Turn it, while the ability to match well into Cresselia has lessened a bit with Ursaluna banned (and the more annoying Landorus-Therian replacing it), while Chien-Pao (+Dragonite) teams don’t super want to stack another Dark-type, preferring to use something else like Kleavor instead. Kingambit is the better Dark-type outside of offensive teams and the physical frailty still holds Hoopa back as a Trick Room setter.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4. I might drop to tier 5 in the next shift since I really haven’t been impressed with any recent replays of this. Speed tier and physical bulk are just too awkward right now on full offensive sets, and I feel the HO teams that would want to run those sets generally do better with other pokemon, either better utility or faster options. Breaking protect also isn’t of enough value against semiroom comps since so few mons on those run protect anyway. Leaving at 4 since it still provides very strong pressure with protect-breaking dark stab.
SMB: 4, band is rlly good atm because it’s one of the only things that can ohko since turn 1, it shouldn’t drop even if it relies in some support and tera mot times to work
JRL: T4. there are better users of trick room and I see that it is very dependent on tera, however, it has very good offenses + tric room setter + romper protects makes it possible for it to have a small niche.
Madaraaaa: T4. Difficult to use but banded set in offsive teams can kill at least one pokemon and is t4 set.
Bage1: Tier 4. The ability to break protect is solid on both TR and TW HO stuff. It still has huge offensive numbers and good special bulk even if its defensive downsides make it difficult to use.
Yoda2798: Tier 5. Hoopa-Unbound still hits hard and breaks Protect, but I think the meta developing has been bad for it. Rillaboom has picked up hard and can U-Turn it, while the ability to match well into Cresselia has lessened a bit with Ursaluna banned (and the more annoying Landorus-Therian replacing it), while Chien-Pao (+Dragonite) teams don’t super want to stack another Dark-type, preferring to use something else like Kleavor instead. Kingambit is the better Dark-type outside of offensive teams and the physical frailty still holds Hoopa back as a Trick Room setter.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4. I might drop to tier 5 in the next shift since I really haven’t been impressed with any recent replays of this. Speed tier and physical bulk are just too awkward right now on full offensive sets, and I feel the HO teams that would want to run those sets generally do better with other pokemon, either better utility or faster options. Breaking protect also isn’t of enough value against semiroom comps since so few mons on those run protect anyway. Leaving at 4 since it still provides very strong pressure with protect-breaking dark stab.
SMB: 4, band is rlly good atm because it’s one of the only things that can ohko since turn 1, it shouldn’t drop even if it relies in some support and tera mot times to work
JRL: T4. there are better users of trick room and I see that it is very dependent on tera, however, it has very good offenses + tric room setter + romper protects makes it possible for it to have a small niche.
Madaraaaa: T4. Difficult to use but banded set in offsive teams can kill at least one pokemon and is t4 set.
Bage1: Tier 4. The ability to break protect is solid on both TR and TW HO stuff. It still has huge offensive numbers and good special bulk even if its defensive downsides make it difficult to use.
4 -> 5Actuarily: T5. The contrary superpower & play rough set can runaway with games, but very rarely as this is a little too frail to get off multiple superpowers. There’s better options as a tailwind setter too.
Yoda2798: Tier 5. I’m a massive Enamorous hater, there is just so little reason to use it over other Pokemon like Flutter Mane or the other genies.
Nido-Rus: Tier 5. This probably has potential but every time I’ve used it or seen it used it’s been just too frail to accomplish much. Lot of cool properties but it can’t really steamroll with its awkward speed tier when flutter is everywhere.
SMB: Tier 5 is fine i guess, as I said previously tailwind is not that good atm and it’s too frail to make an excellent use of its ability
JRL: T5. User of tailwind and contrary + superpower, it also has a great special attack that can make it play mixed. I think that as long as this flutter there will be no reason to use it.
Madaraaaa: T5. Too frail even if boosted with superpower, has also 5 common type weaknesses, and in general there are fairy (flutter mane, diance) or flying (other genies) types so much better.
Bage1: Tier 5. Very hard to justify using when Flutter Mane is legal. It has Tailwind but is outclassed there as well, and just doesn’t have the bulk and speed needed to really pull off contrary superpower sets super consistently.
Yoda2798: Tier 5. I’m a massive Enamorous hater, there is just so little reason to use it over other Pokemon like Flutter Mane or the other genies.
Nido-Rus: Tier 5. This probably has potential but every time I’ve used it or seen it used it’s been just too frail to accomplish much. Lot of cool properties but it can’t really steamroll with its awkward speed tier when flutter is everywhere.
SMB: Tier 5 is fine i guess, as I said previously tailwind is not that good atm and it’s too frail to make an excellent use of its ability
JRL: T5. User of tailwind and contrary + superpower, it also has a great special attack that can make it play mixed. I think that as long as this flutter there will be no reason to use it.
Madaraaaa: T5. Too frail even if boosted with superpower, has also 5 common type weaknesses, and in general there are fairy (flutter mane, diance) or flying (other genies) types so much better.
Bage1: Tier 5. Very hard to justify using when Flutter Mane is legal. It has Tailwind but is outclassed there as well, and just doesn’t have the bulk and speed needed to really pull off contrary superpower sets super consistently.
UR -> 4Actuarily: T4. Has a lot of utility, but as Nido says it can be very passive, so it really struggles into like Cress teams who can just lunar blessing off all the status/hazards, so it relies on using taunt a lot, and ends up dying before it accomplishes all it wants.
Yoda2798: Tier 4. Qwilfish-Hisui is a pretty weird Pokemon and not something you want on most teams, but the unique combination of utility it provides lets it fulfill an important place on certain teams looking precisely for that. I’m not a fan of Barb Barrage, but Gunk Shot lets it maintain some amount of presence offensively. Qwilfish-Hisui certainly has its shortcomings, but I think the distinctive role it has is unique enough and good enough at it to fit into Tier 4.
Nido-Rus: Tier 5. I love this mon but it's just way too passive, doesn't accomplish enough on the field. Combines a lot of fun qualities but has zero offensive pressure and almost no positional pressure (fake out/redirection etc). Taunt/intim helps but can only do so much.
SMB: 4, only 1 weakness, intimidate, bulky and being able to use taunt make it the premier hazard setter, having a whole archetype based on it
JRL: T5. intimidate + spikes + t spikes is all utility, plus eviolite gives it great defensive bulk that together with its great type makes it more durable.
Madaraaaa: T5. Really good supporter but offensively is zero… I think there are better supporters for hazard stack teams or bulkt teams with screens.
Bage1: Tier 5. Doesn’t do enough offensively to be higher but has great role compression with access to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Taunt, Haze, and Intimidate. Good bulk and type. Usually fits on teams that appreciate it absorbing opposing Toxic Spikes as well.
Yoda2798: Tier 4. Qwilfish-Hisui is a pretty weird Pokemon and not something you want on most teams, but the unique combination of utility it provides lets it fulfill an important place on certain teams looking precisely for that. I’m not a fan of Barb Barrage, but Gunk Shot lets it maintain some amount of presence offensively. Qwilfish-Hisui certainly has its shortcomings, but I think the distinctive role it has is unique enough and good enough at it to fit into Tier 4.
Nido-Rus: Tier 5. I love this mon but it's just way too passive, doesn't accomplish enough on the field. Combines a lot of fun qualities but has zero offensive pressure and almost no positional pressure (fake out/redirection etc). Taunt/intim helps but can only do so much.
SMB: 4, only 1 weakness, intimidate, bulky and being able to use taunt make it the premier hazard setter, having a whole archetype based on it
JRL: T5. intimidate + spikes + t spikes is all utility, plus eviolite gives it great defensive bulk that together with its great type makes it more durable.
Madaraaaa: T5. Really good supporter but offensively is zero… I think there are better supporters for hazard stack teams or bulkt teams with screens.
Bage1: Tier 5. Doesn’t do enough offensively to be higher but has great role compression with access to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Taunt, Haze, and Intimidate. Good bulk and type. Usually fits on teams that appreciate it absorbing opposing Toxic Spikes as well.
4 -> 3Actuarily: T3. Setting Rocks with an actual good move is really great, and it has good bug moves that let it do a lot into really popular mons like Cress & Rillaboom. Just has terrible defensive typing, so it doesn’t get to stick around more than 1-2 turns.
Yoda2798: Tier 3. Stealth Rock on top of an attack is very useful for offensive teams keeping tempo while getting the hazard up to help chip everything down into range for KOs, while Sharpness with its decent offensive typing means Kleavor does enough on top of that to be worth the slot. Even when it doesn’t end up doing much damage itself, the value of Stealth Rock comes into play later for teammates like Chien-Pao and Dragonite, like qsns said it’s similar to Glimmora in that sense. Has solidified enough of a niche on offense teams to be Tier 3 to me.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Funny tempo mon and setting rocks with an actual good rock type move is nice, but it really doesn’t accomplish enough outside getting rocks up and isn’t too reliable even at that.
SMB: 4, average special bulk and speed make it easy to double target it, I don’t think it is a reliable sr setter which is the main reason to use it
JRL: T4. Stone ax hits hard and puts in rocks which makes it always useful. It has a place on offensive teams and is good against various higher tier pokes like Volcanion, Cresselia, or Tornadus.
Madaraaaa: T4. Too frail, sash in lead is oksy but also the speed is not good. Puts rocks and has a great attack but I don't see reasons to put it in a higher tier.
Bage1: Tier 3. Great into offense while being able to threaten Cress. The tempo generated from setting rocks while dealing damage cannot be understated. Rock is a good type offensively and Kleavor often gets enough value just by chunking something with Stone Axe and dying. Has good utility options as well but often wants to do too much. Unfortunately an UR mon 10% of the time.
Yoda2798: Tier 3. Stealth Rock on top of an attack is very useful for offensive teams keeping tempo while getting the hazard up to help chip everything down into range for KOs, while Sharpness with its decent offensive typing means Kleavor does enough on top of that to be worth the slot. Even when it doesn’t end up doing much damage itself, the value of Stealth Rock comes into play later for teammates like Chien-Pao and Dragonite, like qsns said it’s similar to Glimmora in that sense. Has solidified enough of a niche on offense teams to be Tier 3 to me.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Funny tempo mon and setting rocks with an actual good rock type move is nice, but it really doesn’t accomplish enough outside getting rocks up and isn’t too reliable even at that.
SMB: 4, average special bulk and speed make it easy to double target it, I don’t think it is a reliable sr setter which is the main reason to use it
JRL: T4. Stone ax hits hard and puts in rocks which makes it always useful. It has a place on offensive teams and is good against various higher tier pokes like Volcanion, Cresselia, or Tornadus.
Madaraaaa: T4. Too frail, sash in lead is oksy but also the speed is not good. Puts rocks and has a great attack but I don't see reasons to put it in a higher tier.
Bage1: Tier 3. Great into offense while being able to threaten Cress. The tempo generated from setting rocks while dealing damage cannot be understated. Rock is a good type offensively and Kleavor often gets enough value just by chunking something with Stone Axe and dying. Has good utility options as well but often wants to do too much. Unfortunately an UR mon 10% of the time.
3 -> 1Actuarily: T1. The bulk up set is one of the biggest wincons right now, able to absolutely run away with games, it only struggles to hit a couple of Pokémon like Basculegion & Amoonguss. Other than that, it’s also incredibly powerful on rain or just as a CB attacker. Something that has to be accounted for in the builder. Only downside is how it competes with a lot of the other good waters like Basculegion & Volcanion.
Yoda2798: Tier 2. Choice Band is fearsome in rain, capable of OHKOing even Cresselia with Wave Crash. Bulk Up is the headliner though, easily fitting onto teams and being an incredibly strong win condition, benefitting massively from the gap left behind by Iron Bundle’s disappearance. Bulk Up doubling as a defensive boost makes it easier to set up (especially as it is fast enough to move before a lot of physical attackers), Drain Punch provides recovery after setting up, and Jet Punch being priority enables Palafin to pick off any threats before they can attack. With all that said though, Palafin’s not quite Tier 1, sometimes it can struggle to find breathing room to set up, especially against more offensive teams, and Clear Smog Amoonguss is a major roadstop to it on bulkier teams.
Nido-Rus: Top of tier 2, incredibly scary threat right now, especially in the meantime while status, taunt, haze etc are still not common enough. Good typing, great sets between band, bulk up lefties, and a few others.
SMB: 2, it has all a pokemon needs to be successful atm; excellent bulk, priority, recovery, can run either choice band sets that destroy offense teams or bulk up sets that are annoying to deal with for bulky teams
JRL: T2. Great bulk and a great offensive presence with its jet punch priority. It's true that there are pokes like Rillaboom and Volcanion that do well against it, but it can hit them with its great coverage. He also fits into balanced, offensive and rain teams. In addition, the decline of sun teams benefits him.
Madaraaaa: T2. Bulk up sets is really conditioning and drains opponent's team if not countered properly turn by turn. Can win alone, super hero palafin with possibilty of tera is not so far from uber if we think about the stats, movepool. CB set is also valuable, erase bulky pokemon defence and can kill many high tier pokemons.
Bage1: Tier 2. Very top of tier 2, giving free turns to the bulk up set can just lose you the game. It has lots of reliable variations and partners that can enable setup easily such as Amoonguss, Cresselia, and Mew. Mystic Water and Banded attacking sets offer a different dimension that is more immediately threatening and require different counterplay. If positioned correctly Banded Palafin in rain can erase even resists.
Yoda2798: Tier 2. Choice Band is fearsome in rain, capable of OHKOing even Cresselia with Wave Crash. Bulk Up is the headliner though, easily fitting onto teams and being an incredibly strong win condition, benefitting massively from the gap left behind by Iron Bundle’s disappearance. Bulk Up doubling as a defensive boost makes it easier to set up (especially as it is fast enough to move before a lot of physical attackers), Drain Punch provides recovery after setting up, and Jet Punch being priority enables Palafin to pick off any threats before they can attack. With all that said though, Palafin’s not quite Tier 1, sometimes it can struggle to find breathing room to set up, especially against more offensive teams, and Clear Smog Amoonguss is a major roadstop to it on bulkier teams.
Nido-Rus: Top of tier 2, incredibly scary threat right now, especially in the meantime while status, taunt, haze etc are still not common enough. Good typing, great sets between band, bulk up lefties, and a few others.
SMB: 2, it has all a pokemon needs to be successful atm; excellent bulk, priority, recovery, can run either choice band sets that destroy offense teams or bulk up sets that are annoying to deal with for bulky teams
JRL: T2. Great bulk and a great offensive presence with its jet punch priority. It's true that there are pokes like Rillaboom and Volcanion that do well against it, but it can hit them with its great coverage. He also fits into balanced, offensive and rain teams. In addition, the decline of sun teams benefits him.
Madaraaaa: T2. Bulk up sets is really conditioning and drains opponent's team if not countered properly turn by turn. Can win alone, super hero palafin with possibilty of tera is not so far from uber if we think about the stats, movepool. CB set is also valuable, erase bulky pokemon defence and can kill many high tier pokemons.
Bage1: Tier 2. Very top of tier 2, giving free turns to the bulk up set can just lose you the game. It has lots of reliable variations and partners that can enable setup easily such as Amoonguss, Cresselia, and Mew. Mystic Water and Banded attacking sets offer a different dimension that is more immediately threatening and require different counterplay. If positioned correctly Banded Palafin in rain can erase even resists.
3 -> 2Actuarily: T3. The CB e-speed set is nice, but there’s a decent amount of normal resists/immunities right now, and the multi scale set has fallen off a cliff, so I don’t see a need for this to rise.
Yoda2798: Tier 3. Flutter Mane being free again makes it a lot easier to navigate around Extreme Speed, while the increased bulk level of post-home makes Dragonite even more reliant on Tera to pick up KOs. Still good with Chien-Pao, but it only fits on a subsection of the offensive teams which have Chien-Pao, putting it a level below its partner as OSDT usage reflects, and lacks the splashableness required for a Tier 2. Inner Focus for Fake Out and Intimidate is quite nice, but Dragonite is still too reliant on Chien-Pao (and Tera) to rank any higher.
Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Still solid, but everything is bulkier now than it used to be, so espeed isn’t able to tear through teams as easily anymore. Flutter back is a very big factor in this placement, easy espeed switchin that threatens dnite really hard and forces a tera at best. Multiscale also isn’t really usable with how common fake out/rocks are.
SMB: 3, having it on the same tier than chien pao makes sense (chien pao is tier 3 to me). There are a couple more normal resists and immunities + a lot of def evs investment so that hurts its viability.
JRL: T3. It is mostly seen alongside Chien Pao, which makes it less visible outside of offensive archetypes. You have good bulk and with inner focus they can't intimidate it and with normal tera it can cause damage, but the viability is limited.
Madaraaaa: T3. With Chien pao creates the perfect couple with sinergy in movepool, abilities, strong priorities. But in this moment espeed can be taken by bulky mons, and you need to tera also defensively to not die from flutter mane, chien pao.
Bage1: Tier 3. Banded Tera Normal Extreme Speed is still threatening, especially with Rillaboom back to actually contest Indeedee for terrain control. However there are now a lot more mons that are fine taking an Espeed now, and the general bulk of the meta means lots of teams can afford to let it throw out a couple attacks while they reposition. Still really wants both Tera and Chien Pao on the field to do all the damage it wants which can be hard to set up.
Yoda2798: Tier 3. Flutter Mane being free again makes it a lot easier to navigate around Extreme Speed, while the increased bulk level of post-home makes Dragonite even more reliant on Tera to pick up KOs. Still good with Chien-Pao, but it only fits on a subsection of the offensive teams which have Chien-Pao, putting it a level below its partner as OSDT usage reflects, and lacks the splashableness required for a Tier 2. Inner Focus for Fake Out and Intimidate is quite nice, but Dragonite is still too reliant on Chien-Pao (and Tera) to rank any higher.
Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Still solid, but everything is bulkier now than it used to be, so espeed isn’t able to tear through teams as easily anymore. Flutter back is a very big factor in this placement, easy espeed switchin that threatens dnite really hard and forces a tera at best. Multiscale also isn’t really usable with how common fake out/rocks are.
SMB: 3, having it on the same tier than chien pao makes sense (chien pao is tier 3 to me). There are a couple more normal resists and immunities + a lot of def evs investment so that hurts its viability.
JRL: T3. It is mostly seen alongside Chien Pao, which makes it less visible outside of offensive archetypes. You have good bulk and with inner focus they can't intimidate it and with normal tera it can cause damage, but the viability is limited.
Madaraaaa: T3. With Chien pao creates the perfect couple with sinergy in movepool, abilities, strong priorities. But in this moment espeed can be taken by bulky mons, and you need to tera also defensively to not die from flutter mane, chien pao.
Bage1: Tier 3. Banded Tera Normal Extreme Speed is still threatening, especially with Rillaboom back to actually contest Indeedee for terrain control. However there are now a lot more mons that are fine taking an Espeed now, and the general bulk of the meta means lots of teams can afford to let it throw out a couple attacks while they reposition. Still really wants both Tera and Chien Pao on the field to do all the damage it wants which can be hard to set up.
2 -> 4Actuarily: T4. Still has a place and is probably a bit underused right now, but yeah there’s a lot more bulk and stuff this can’t hit anymore, making it harder to use. Volcanion, bulk up Palafin, Rillaboom all just eat hits from this and do a ton back, making it harder to just spam like it was pre-home.
Yoda2798: Tier 4. Tornadus now existing as an actually good option for Prankster Tailwind limits Iron Bundle’s biggest asset in its Speed, by getting Tailwind up before Bundle can try to prevent it, and letting teammates outspeed before it can get an Icy Wind off. Tornadus being THE speed control Pokemon now also means that Bundle feels insufficient by itself, with teams still usually wanting its own Tornadus anyways to help balance out opposing ones. This means that instead of using Iron Bundle, it’s typically better to use Tornadus alone for speed control with a harder hitter in Bundle’s place, especially with it being less effective as an attacker with the generally higher level of bulk now. Bage1 summed it up well as an option on offense teams to help in the mirror, but that’s a role I think is niche enough to drop Iron Bundle down to Tier 4.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4, everyone’s pretty much covered it but bundle suffers way too much against the current type of bulky semiroom teams people are using. We finally have actually bulky TR setters as well as stuff like volcanion that just tanks hits well and threatens bundle back with strong neutral hits. Still good into offense but other things are better without being a major hindrance against balance.
SMB: 4, too frail and not very useful vs bulky teams, good vs offense but i’d wonder if better than basculegion/palafin
JRL: T4. I think against bulk teams it does little work. It has good coverage with hydro + freeze dry, but falls short on damage and with its low esp def it doesn't last long in battle.
Madaraaaa: T4. Potentially is good offensively vs offensive stuff too, with booster energy and speed control. But now struggles vs many semiroom pokemons and dies too easily to put it in a team.
Bage1: Tier 3. Makes the offense mirror way easier but really hates all of the bulkier teams that are running around. Its coverage is still a nightmare for a lot of teams to switch into but its not the defining speed control mon it was pre-home.
Yoda2798: Tier 4. Tornadus now existing as an actually good option for Prankster Tailwind limits Iron Bundle’s biggest asset in its Speed, by getting Tailwind up before Bundle can try to prevent it, and letting teammates outspeed before it can get an Icy Wind off. Tornadus being THE speed control Pokemon now also means that Bundle feels insufficient by itself, with teams still usually wanting its own Tornadus anyways to help balance out opposing ones. This means that instead of using Iron Bundle, it’s typically better to use Tornadus alone for speed control with a harder hitter in Bundle’s place, especially with it being less effective as an attacker with the generally higher level of bulk now. Bage1 summed it up well as an option on offense teams to help in the mirror, but that’s a role I think is niche enough to drop Iron Bundle down to Tier 4.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4, everyone’s pretty much covered it but bundle suffers way too much against the current type of bulky semiroom teams people are using. We finally have actually bulky TR setters as well as stuff like volcanion that just tanks hits well and threatens bundle back with strong neutral hits. Still good into offense but other things are better without being a major hindrance against balance.
SMB: 4, too frail and not very useful vs bulky teams, good vs offense but i’d wonder if better than basculegion/palafin
JRL: T4. I think against bulk teams it does little work. It has good coverage with hydro + freeze dry, but falls short on damage and with its low esp def it doesn't last long in battle.
Madaraaaa: T4. Potentially is good offensively vs offensive stuff too, with booster energy and speed control. But now struggles vs many semiroom pokemons and dies too easily to put it in a team.
Bage1: Tier 3. Makes the offense mirror way easier but really hates all of the bulkier teams that are running around. Its coverage is still a nightmare for a lot of teams to switch into but its not the defining speed control mon it was pre-home.
5 -> 4Actuarily: T4. Has a place on TR teams, but despite its good coverage still struggles to hit a decent number of mons, and pure ice typing is always bad.
Yoda2798: Tier 4. Glastrier is a lot better this gen than last with no Incineroar existing to be a nuisance, Clear Amulet to block Intimidate and thus make it much easier to snowball, and being a great user of Tera as a bulky Ice-type. Very reliant on Trick Room, but a strong partner for Cresselia in particular and one of the strongest Trick Room attackers available.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Has potential to snowball but needs to work very hard towards it. Relegated to some kind of trick room to function well, but team comps are a lot more lax than in previous generations where it was forced into bad full trick room.
SMB: 4, it doesn’t need hard tr teams to work, it’s ok just being in semiroom teams, extremely bulky but very often needs tera because of its speed vs amoonguss and not so good typing defensively
JRL: T4. After Urshaluna's ban, I think the door has been opened for this poke. It is very versatile in items and sets, and has great potential, it stands out much more in full trick room or semiroom team styles.
Madaraaaa: T4. Amazing stats for the ice horse, has possibilty to shine in trickroom teams but also with screens, item assault vest or clear amulet. Great coverage and ability, if supported properly can be really interesting.
Bage1: Tier 4. Cresselia and Tera are really good tools for it. Has all the coverage it could need. AV / Clear Amulet / Life Orb all seem viable. Still tera hungry and needs a good amount of support to work
Yoda2798: Tier 4. Glastrier is a lot better this gen than last with no Incineroar existing to be a nuisance, Clear Amulet to block Intimidate and thus make it much easier to snowball, and being a great user of Tera as a bulky Ice-type. Very reliant on Trick Room, but a strong partner for Cresselia in particular and one of the strongest Trick Room attackers available.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Has potential to snowball but needs to work very hard towards it. Relegated to some kind of trick room to function well, but team comps are a lot more lax than in previous generations where it was forced into bad full trick room.
SMB: 4, it doesn’t need hard tr teams to work, it’s ok just being in semiroom teams, extremely bulky but very often needs tera because of its speed vs amoonguss and not so good typing defensively
JRL: T4. After Urshaluna's ban, I think the door has been opened for this poke. It is very versatile in items and sets, and has great potential, it stands out much more in full trick room or semiroom team styles.
Madaraaaa: T4. Amazing stats for the ice horse, has possibilty to shine in trickroom teams but also with screens, item assault vest or clear amulet. Great coverage and ability, if supported properly can be really interesting.
Bage1: Tier 4. Cresselia and Tera are really good tools for it. Has all the coverage it could need. AV / Clear Amulet / Life Orb all seem viable. Still tera hungry and needs a good amount of support to work
4 -> 5Actuarily: UR. After the nerf to its ability, it just doesn’t have a place. You’d rather use Iron Bundle for a fast icy wind/Electroweb mon, and rather use Thundurus or Iron Hands for actual electric attacks.
Yoda2798: Tier 5. Low bulk necessitates Focus Sash, while damage output is disappointing with the Transistor nerf. Speed is the singular reason to use Regieleki, but when priority is common, Prankster Tailwind is common, Trick Room is common, and Booster Energy Speed Flutter Mane is faster, it’s not a very convincing one. Rillaboom, Iron Hands, and Ground-types provide easy switch-ins, while Regieleki suffers the same problem as Iron Bundle of feeling insufficient alone as speed control, meaning you end up feeling the need to use Tornadus as well, which then further reduces its value as a lot.
Nido-Rus: Tier 5. Bad mon and electric just isn’t a great offensive typing against these bulky offense teams that are the standard right now. Also the transistor nerf particularly hurt it, reducing a built in choice specs to a built in life orb. Just doesn’t do enough damage or anything really.
SMB: 5, bulky meta -> regieleki :put_litter_in_its_place:
JRL: T5. Together with chi yu it can do more work, but it's a limited poke against ground types, it needs tera ice to be able to touch them, plus there are several pokes that use tera grass in the meta and rilla and hands do a great job against regieleki. Also, pokes with energy boost + speed outspeed it and can 1 ko it (flutter and bundle).
Madaraaaa: T5. Mono electric moves is not a good movepool, terablast force you to waste the tera because regieleki is too much frail, suffers priorities, bulky mins eat it.
Bage1: Tier 5. Damage nerf is really bad for it, basically outclassed entirely by Booster Bundle as speed control. If you want something to do more damage there are other options as well.
Yoda2798: Tier 5. Low bulk necessitates Focus Sash, while damage output is disappointing with the Transistor nerf. Speed is the singular reason to use Regieleki, but when priority is common, Prankster Tailwind is common, Trick Room is common, and Booster Energy Speed Flutter Mane is faster, it’s not a very convincing one. Rillaboom, Iron Hands, and Ground-types provide easy switch-ins, while Regieleki suffers the same problem as Iron Bundle of feeling insufficient alone as speed control, meaning you end up feeling the need to use Tornadus as well, which then further reduces its value as a lot.
Nido-Rus: Tier 5. Bad mon and electric just isn’t a great offensive typing against these bulky offense teams that are the standard right now. Also the transistor nerf particularly hurt it, reducing a built in choice specs to a built in life orb. Just doesn’t do enough damage or anything really.
SMB: 5, bulky meta -> regieleki :put_litter_in_its_place:
JRL: T5. Together with chi yu it can do more work, but it's a limited poke against ground types, it needs tera ice to be able to touch them, plus there are several pokes that use tera grass in the meta and rilla and hands do a great job against regieleki. Also, pokes with energy boost + speed outspeed it and can 1 ko it (flutter and bundle).
Madaraaaa: T5. Mono electric moves is not a good movepool, terablast force you to waste the tera because regieleki is too much frail, suffers priorities, bulky mins eat it.
Bage1: Tier 5. Damage nerf is really bad for it, basically outclassed entirely by Booster Bundle as speed control. If you want something to do more damage there are other options as well.
2 -> 3Actuarily: T3. Definitely has a place on offensive teams, but yeah it’s like the 3rd best fire type right now. Most teams have a play around Chi-Yu + Flutter right now, but that combo can still be devastating. I could see this rising soon.
Yoda2798: Tier 3. Chi-Yu is no longer the clear best Fire-type in the tier, it’s quite arguably not even the second best Fire-type either. Its new competition, Heatran and Volcanion, match super well into Chi-Yu (+Flutter Mane) and also cover each better than Chi-Yu does due to Ground coverage. On top of both being better defensively, each offers different utility in being an amazing Tera user or Water immunity and coverage respectively. As a result, Chi-Yu has been pushed into being a team-specific Fire, requiring the right type of offensive team (or sun) to make it worthwhile over other options. An important factor that I haven’t seen mentioned is the steep decline of Iron Bundle negatively affecting Chi-Yu, as its most important offensive partner pre-home.
Nido-Rus: Tier 3. I was debating going for tier 2 for a while, but chi-yu just hasn’t withstood the bulky meta test. I’ve been liking bulky sets a ton, especially against bulky offense, but running these sets involves compromising matchups against stuff like scarf basculegion or chien pao offense. Just falls slightly short of the universal ‘good mon’ status of heatran or volcanion.
SMB: 3, imo it only fits in offense teams atm, but bulkier sets are still a bit unexplored. Anyway, it still has to compete with the best pokemon in the format for a slot.
JRL: T3. I think the meta is very bulky right now and things like heatran and volcanion do a better job than chi yu on these types of teams. On offensive teams and sun teams is where chi yu brings out the potential of him, but fire spam for him is not as good as before.
Madaraaaa: T3. Good in offsive teams, still really good but struggles vs balanced teams that have appropriate fire types like heatran or volcanion.
Bage1: Tier 3. Now actually competes with other fire types in Heatran and Volcanion that have more defensive utility and match up favorably into Chi-Yu. Choiced sets are generally too vulnerable and want to Tera Ghost too often. Bulkier sets with Nasty Plot and Wisp give it another dimension but require more support. The raw damage it provides with its ability still needs to be respected but the format has more bulk now.
Yoda2798: Tier 3. Chi-Yu is no longer the clear best Fire-type in the tier, it’s quite arguably not even the second best Fire-type either. Its new competition, Heatran and Volcanion, match super well into Chi-Yu (+Flutter Mane) and also cover each better than Chi-Yu does due to Ground coverage. On top of both being better defensively, each offers different utility in being an amazing Tera user or Water immunity and coverage respectively. As a result, Chi-Yu has been pushed into being a team-specific Fire, requiring the right type of offensive team (or sun) to make it worthwhile over other options. An important factor that I haven’t seen mentioned is the steep decline of Iron Bundle negatively affecting Chi-Yu, as its most important offensive partner pre-home.
Nido-Rus: Tier 3. I was debating going for tier 2 for a while, but chi-yu just hasn’t withstood the bulky meta test. I’ve been liking bulky sets a ton, especially against bulky offense, but running these sets involves compromising matchups against stuff like scarf basculegion or chien pao offense. Just falls slightly short of the universal ‘good mon’ status of heatran or volcanion.
SMB: 3, imo it only fits in offense teams atm, but bulkier sets are still a bit unexplored. Anyway, it still has to compete with the best pokemon in the format for a slot.
JRL: T3. I think the meta is very bulky right now and things like heatran and volcanion do a better job than chi yu on these types of teams. On offensive teams and sun teams is where chi yu brings out the potential of him, but fire spam for him is not as good as before.
Madaraaaa: T3. Good in offsive teams, still really good but struggles vs balanced teams that have appropriate fire types like heatran or volcanion.
Bage1: Tier 3. Now actually competes with other fire types in Heatran and Volcanion that have more defensive utility and match up favorably into Chi-Yu. Choiced sets are generally too vulnerable and want to Tera Ghost too often. Bulkier sets with Nasty Plot and Wisp give it another dimension but require more support. The raw damage it provides with its ability still needs to be respected but the format has more bulk now.
4 -> 3Actuarily: T4. Grimmsnarl constantly suffers from the fact that is it rises in popularity, teams just fit a screen breaker somewhere, and suddenly it’s deadweight. So i feel like it’s always gonna have a ceiling at tier 4.
Yoda2798: Tier 4. It feels like Grimmsnarl always reaches this stage where it’s borderline between the two, since as it rises in prominence people start packing screens removal which hurts it, and Brick Break Rillaboom is an especially easy way to cover that in this meta. With how easy it is to fit a screens breaker, and how much it kills Grimmsnarl’s value, I think Tier 3 is just out of reach.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4, screens is still usable but falling out of favor lately. Screens become a hindrance the moment people build with it in mind, and that’s where we are in the meta at this point.
SMB: Tier 4, holds some teams together vs offense and that’s pretty much it, you still risk wasting 2-3 turns and playing 5v6 if your opponent carries screen breakers
JRL: T4. I think the screens currently can be very good with the most popular pokemon in the meta, grimsnarl is the best user of them and has a great support movepool.
Madaraaaa: T4. Screens, parting shot are okay right now, decent supporter, sometimes too passive.
Bage1: Tier 4. Lots of setup Pokemon in the tier right now that make good use of screens such as Palafin and Kingambit, but Grimm is often dead weight once they are set up. Screenbreakers are easy to fit and make Grimm a dead slot on the team.
Yoda2798: Tier 4. It feels like Grimmsnarl always reaches this stage where it’s borderline between the two, since as it rises in prominence people start packing screens removal which hurts it, and Brick Break Rillaboom is an especially easy way to cover that in this meta. With how easy it is to fit a screens breaker, and how much it kills Grimmsnarl’s value, I think Tier 3 is just out of reach.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4, screens is still usable but falling out of favor lately. Screens become a hindrance the moment people build with it in mind, and that’s where we are in the meta at this point.
SMB: Tier 4, holds some teams together vs offense and that’s pretty much it, you still risk wasting 2-3 turns and playing 5v6 if your opponent carries screen breakers
JRL: T4. I think the screens currently can be very good with the most popular pokemon in the meta, grimsnarl is the best user of them and has a great support movepool.
Madaraaaa: T4. Screens, parting shot are okay right now, decent supporter, sometimes too passive.
Bage1: Tier 4. Lots of setup Pokemon in the tier right now that make good use of screens such as Palafin and Kingambit, but Grimm is often dead weight once they are set up. Screenbreakers are easy to fit and make Grimm a dead slot on the team.
3 -> 4Actuarily: T4. While it does have some good ways to eat hits and ko back a lot of the top offensive threats, it just gets too worn down by being slow and having to eat a bunch. Doesn’t really resist a lot of attacks right now, so while it’s basically never OHKO’d, it also doesn’t eat like 3-4 hits anymore.
Yoda2798: Tier 4. Ting-Lu’s massive problem with passivity has gotten even worse, being a massive bait for Landorus-T and Rillaboom, the latter especially being quite bad for it. Flutter Mane is back and chunks it, Iron Hands is still everywhere, Palafin and Basculegion are big and dunk on it, the new Fire-types also match into it a lot better than Chi-Yu does, with Volcanion having Steam Eruption and Heatran typically using Tera Grass and Tera Blast. There’s also the fact that if you want a bulky Ground-type which can set hazards, Landorus-T exists for that now, and is way less passive, relegating Ting-Lu to fitting on fewer teams yet.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4, just too passive right now, really hates facing any of the many setup mons or big damage breaker mons. Just doesn’t provide enough value compared to lando-t.
SMB: 4, too passive and really bad typing vs the top tier mons with its ability not being so great either
JRL: T4. I think it is difficult for him to withstand the new threats from the meta (flutter, chien pao, tera grass heatran, volcanion...) and together with the fact that he is passive in attack, he is forced to play in more defensive teams where he gives greater support to the team with his ability.
Madaraaaa: T4. Suffers high tier moves and is not its moment, hard to justify it on a team, there are better ground and dark types.
Bage1: Tier 4. Hazards are strong right now but Ting Lu has a bad defensive type while being dead weight offensively. It's not a fan of rain, Rillaboom and Flutter Mane being so popular. There are definitely matchups where it can just sit on the field, get up max hazards and spam Whirlwind, but more often it doesn’t stay around very long.
Yoda2798: Tier 4. Ting-Lu’s massive problem with passivity has gotten even worse, being a massive bait for Landorus-T and Rillaboom, the latter especially being quite bad for it. Flutter Mane is back and chunks it, Iron Hands is still everywhere, Palafin and Basculegion are big and dunk on it, the new Fire-types also match into it a lot better than Chi-Yu does, with Volcanion having Steam Eruption and Heatran typically using Tera Grass and Tera Blast. There’s also the fact that if you want a bulky Ground-type which can set hazards, Landorus-T exists for that now, and is way less passive, relegating Ting-Lu to fitting on fewer teams yet.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4, just too passive right now, really hates facing any of the many setup mons or big damage breaker mons. Just doesn’t provide enough value compared to lando-t.
SMB: 4, too passive and really bad typing vs the top tier mons with its ability not being so great either
JRL: T4. I think it is difficult for him to withstand the new threats from the meta (flutter, chien pao, tera grass heatran, volcanion...) and together with the fact that he is passive in attack, he is forced to play in more defensive teams where he gives greater support to the team with his ability.
Madaraaaa: T4. Suffers high tier moves and is not its moment, hard to justify it on a team, there are better ground and dark types.
Bage1: Tier 4. Hazards are strong right now but Ting Lu has a bad defensive type while being dead weight offensively. It's not a fan of rain, Rillaboom and Flutter Mane being so popular. There are definitely matchups where it can just sit on the field, get up max hazards and spam Whirlwind, but more often it doesn’t stay around very long.
5 -> 4Actuarily: T4. Can snowball, but just suffers a ton of competition with Flutter Mane right now, and this kinda requires a ton of team support while Flutter is very pluggable.
Yoda2798: Tier 5. I don’t think Spectrier is bad in a vacuum, but it struggles to justify itself as the best option when there are two incredibly good Ghost-types in Flutter Mane and Basculegion. Both offer much more immediate power and are less Tera hungry, with Choice Scarf Basculegion being especially good at cleaning up late game, but don’t require setting up and are just in general the strongest Pokemon in the tier. With there being a number of other viable setup Pokemon, I think it’s easier and better to use Flutter Mane/Basculegion with one of those, than Spectrier with something else.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4, solid setup mon with a remote niche over flutter, but also still faces the issue of wanting to set up but not actually having any significant resistances to help it do so. Has a hard time switching into pretty much anything even with bulky sets.
SMB: 3, best set up pokemon to finish games, can 6-0 bulky teams with the right support
JRL: T4. Seed + nasty can wipe out entire teams and the tera benefits it to last longer on the field. It's a poke that has good support moves like wow + snarl, taunt or haze. I think it's very versatile.
Madaraaaa: T4. Jrl explained perfectly.
Bage1: Tier 4. Nasty Plot and better physical bulk and HP give it a real niche over Flutter Mane on bulkier compositions as it can also more easily make use of its speed while retaining bulk. Tera is exceptional on it but it is very tera hungry, especially with the rise of Kingambit and Flutter Mane’s omnipresence.
Yoda2798: Tier 5. I don’t think Spectrier is bad in a vacuum, but it struggles to justify itself as the best option when there are two incredibly good Ghost-types in Flutter Mane and Basculegion. Both offer much more immediate power and are less Tera hungry, with Choice Scarf Basculegion being especially good at cleaning up late game, but don’t require setting up and are just in general the strongest Pokemon in the tier. With there being a number of other viable setup Pokemon, I think it’s easier and better to use Flutter Mane/Basculegion with one of those, than Spectrier with something else.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4, solid setup mon with a remote niche over flutter, but also still faces the issue of wanting to set up but not actually having any significant resistances to help it do so. Has a hard time switching into pretty much anything even with bulky sets.
SMB: 3, best set up pokemon to finish games, can 6-0 bulky teams with the right support
JRL: T4. Seed + nasty can wipe out entire teams and the tera benefits it to last longer on the field. It's a poke that has good support moves like wow + snarl, taunt or haze. I think it's very versatile.
Madaraaaa: T4. Jrl explained perfectly.
Bage1: Tier 4. Nasty Plot and better physical bulk and HP give it a real niche over Flutter Mane on bulkier compositions as it can also more easily make use of its speed while retaining bulk. Tera is exceptional on it but it is very tera hungry, especially with the rise of Kingambit and Flutter Mane’s omnipresence.
5 -> 4Actuarily: T5. Can go off if the other team just ignores it, but wants to get to like +4 spa to actually do damage. Idk I’m sure now that I’ve voted t5 I’ll lose to it, but most of the time I try it or watch it, just falls flat.
Yoda2798: Tier 5. Moltres-Galar is an interesting setup option, but it is notably lacking when it comes to having Speed/defensive boosts or priority (I’m not counting Tailwind as a serious option). This on top of a naturally middling Speed makes it very reliant on Tera and partners like Grimmsnarl/Cresselia/Amoonguss to function effectively, even when compared to other setup Pokemon like Palafin, Kingambit, or Goodra-Hisui. With only 100 base Special Attack it also has a tendency to not hit as hard as you’d like either, which limits the value of it being setup with a spread attack (on top of not being fast enough to make full use of it). Moltres-Galar is usable, but other setup Pokemon require less support and function better in practice, making it a niche option.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Particularly good defensive typing for this meta, solid bulk, and fiery wrath is great into a majority of the format. Still suffers from having near zero damage output until it sets up and thus being a major momentum sink. Need to very specifically build your team around this when using it.
SMB: 4, it doesn’t fit on every team, it needs support and at least 1 np boost to do something, but generally it’s not that hard to get and when it does get it, moltres might be the best pokemon at spreading damage
JRL: T4. Moltres-g is similar to spectrier, nasty + bulk set + berserker is so good, taunt or snarl can be useful and tera makes it hold even more and with the help of screens or pokes that can heal it like cresselia or amoonguss.
Madaraaaa: T4. Good vs many supporters, with berskers and nplot and right partners can shine. Has a valuable spread move.
Bage1: Tier 4. Another bulky setup attacker that makes great use of Tera. Nasty Plot + bulk + spread move is a great combination, but it's still very tera hungry and needs a lot of support.
Yoda2798: Tier 5. Moltres-Galar is an interesting setup option, but it is notably lacking when it comes to having Speed/defensive boosts or priority (I’m not counting Tailwind as a serious option). This on top of a naturally middling Speed makes it very reliant on Tera and partners like Grimmsnarl/Cresselia/Amoonguss to function effectively, even when compared to other setup Pokemon like Palafin, Kingambit, or Goodra-Hisui. With only 100 base Special Attack it also has a tendency to not hit as hard as you’d like either, which limits the value of it being setup with a spread attack (on top of not being fast enough to make full use of it). Moltres-Galar is usable, but other setup Pokemon require less support and function better in practice, making it a niche option.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Particularly good defensive typing for this meta, solid bulk, and fiery wrath is great into a majority of the format. Still suffers from having near zero damage output until it sets up and thus being a major momentum sink. Need to very specifically build your team around this when using it.
SMB: 4, it doesn’t fit on every team, it needs support and at least 1 np boost to do something, but generally it’s not that hard to get and when it does get it, moltres might be the best pokemon at spreading damage
JRL: T4. Moltres-g is similar to spectrier, nasty + bulk set + berserker is so good, taunt or snarl can be useful and tera makes it hold even more and with the help of screens or pokes that can heal it like cresselia or amoonguss.
Madaraaaa: T4. Good vs many supporters, with berskers and nplot and right partners can shine. Has a valuable spread move.
Bage1: Tier 4. Another bulky setup attacker that makes great use of Tera. Nasty Plot + bulk + spread move is a great combination, but it's still very tera hungry and needs a lot of support.
4 -> 5Actuarily: UR. Has an awful typing rn, sand isn’t in a good place, there’s just no reason to use this imo, there’s always a better option. Feel like this always happens at the start of Meta’s, Ttar gets relegated to t5 or UR, and then sudddenly finds a niche and comes back, but I just can’t see that happening with all the good water/fighting/grass/ground/fairy mons, and not good sand mons.
Yoda2798: UR. Tyranitar is weak to so many of the top Pokemon, and if you want “(Tera hungry) slow bulky attacker” there’s a lot of other options on the table which are better like Iron Hands, Kingambit, and Ting-Lu. The new Fires are much better into Tyranitar than Chi-Yu is, Rillaboom eats it, Flutter Mane is back, Landorus-T beats it, Iron Hands is still everywhere, Palafin is on the rise again and Basculegion also now exists to destroy it. Stealth Rock is good, but there’s much better setters, and while Rock is great offensively into a lot of stuff, Diancie can fulfill that role much much better with Diamond Storm and being able to set Trick Room for itself.
Nido-Rus: Tier 5, I’ve tried using it quite a bit since rock typing is actually really nice offensively right now, but every time it’s felt like diancie does the same role a whole lot better. Stealth rock and sand chip does still have some value
SMB: UR, it is extremely bad vs almost everything that’s popular. Ig it could be used as a mu fisher on certain games but still there are probably better options.
JRL: UR. I think that the climate is not being used, since there is no abuser that can have a notable impact on the meta and tytar is dependent on tera to remove weaknesses. They can fit into balanced teams to set rocks, but there are better pokes for that like ting-lu or lando.
Madaraaaa: UR. Too many weaknesses, risks to die turn one, even if is a max hp tyranitar. Too slow, this is not the best moment for tytar also because san sweeper are bad right now.
Bage1: UR. Loses hard to all of the bulky Rillaboom/Iron Hands/Lando-T stuff. Can’t threaten good damage while also taking hits. Nothing worthwhile benefits from sand enough to justify using Ttar.
Yoda2798: UR. Tyranitar is weak to so many of the top Pokemon, and if you want “(Tera hungry) slow bulky attacker” there’s a lot of other options on the table which are better like Iron Hands, Kingambit, and Ting-Lu. The new Fires are much better into Tyranitar than Chi-Yu is, Rillaboom eats it, Flutter Mane is back, Landorus-T beats it, Iron Hands is still everywhere, Palafin is on the rise again and Basculegion also now exists to destroy it. Stealth Rock is good, but there’s much better setters, and while Rock is great offensively into a lot of stuff, Diancie can fulfill that role much much better with Diamond Storm and being able to set Trick Room for itself.
Nido-Rus: Tier 5, I’ve tried using it quite a bit since rock typing is actually really nice offensively right now, but every time it’s felt like diancie does the same role a whole lot better. Stealth rock and sand chip does still have some value
SMB: UR, it is extremely bad vs almost everything that’s popular. Ig it could be used as a mu fisher on certain games but still there are probably better options.
JRL: UR. I think that the climate is not being used, since there is no abuser that can have a notable impact on the meta and tytar is dependent on tera to remove weaknesses. They can fit into balanced teams to set rocks, but there are better pokes for that like ting-lu or lando.
Madaraaaa: UR. Too many weaknesses, risks to die turn one, even if is a max hp tyranitar. Too slow, this is not the best moment for tytar also because san sweeper are bad right now.
Bage1: UR. Loses hard to all of the bulky Rillaboom/Iron Hands/Lando-T stuff. Can’t threaten good damage while also taking hits. Nothing worthwhile benefits from sand enough to justify using Ttar.
4 -> URActuarily: T3. Can just win games like nothing else, but is a one trick pony. Either the opponent is adequately prepared to handle it or they aren’t. Still has some utility when it isn’t the wincon, it has good typing and is good into a lot of the top threats, but it really wants to just get off 2-3 Acid Armors and just win.
Yoda2798: Tier 4. Good bulky setup Pokemon, Heavy Slam covers Flutter Mane while Body Press hits nearly everything else which can threaten it. Tera Water + Sap Sipper is really strong defensively, while the base Steel-typing blocks a Clear Smog from Amoonguss. Has some matchups it struggles against, and is best against people unprepared for it, but still a decent Pokemon.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4, setup works with this and you need to keep this in mind when building, but if you prep with this in mind it’s basically useless on the field. Also body press/heavy slam works and is nice into flutter, but just isn’t particularly good type coverage.
SMB: 4, it can wins games turn 1, specially on ladder, but it needs more than a couple of turns to actually be threatening, good support, and also praying that there’s no taunt or amoonguss (rage powder or clear smog in case it teras)
JRL: T4. Great esp def + shelder is amazing. It has a great type and can even heal itself. With sap sipper you become immune to spora and that is very useful and with its steel type it can't be intoxicated, can do a great job with the right support
Madaraaaa: T4. If not countered can win alone, has a good defensive typing, needs a lot of support.
Bage1: Tier 4. Same tier as Garganacl is fine. Very one dimensional but unprepared teams can just lose. Often dead weight if not given enough support or the opponent is good at denying the more passive setup it needs.
Yoda2798: Tier 4. Good bulky setup Pokemon, Heavy Slam covers Flutter Mane while Body Press hits nearly everything else which can threaten it. Tera Water + Sap Sipper is really strong defensively, while the base Steel-typing blocks a Clear Smog from Amoonguss. Has some matchups it struggles against, and is best against people unprepared for it, but still a decent Pokemon.
Nido-Rus: Tier 4, setup works with this and you need to keep this in mind when building, but if you prep with this in mind it’s basically useless on the field. Also body press/heavy slam works and is nice into flutter, but just isn’t particularly good type coverage.
SMB: 4, it can wins games turn 1, specially on ladder, but it needs more than a couple of turns to actually be threatening, good support, and also praying that there’s no taunt or amoonguss (rage powder or clear smog in case it teras)
JRL: T4. Great esp def + shelder is amazing. It has a great type and can even heal itself. With sap sipper you become immune to spora and that is very useful and with its steel type it can't be intoxicated, can do a great job with the right support
Madaraaaa: T4. If not countered can win alone, has a good defensive typing, needs a lot of support.
Bage1: Tier 4. Same tier as Garganacl is fine. Very one dimensional but unprepared teams can just lose. Often dead weight if not given enough support or the opponent is good at denying the more passive setup it needs.
4 -> URActuarily: T5. There’s enough priority moves that this still has a place in the metagame, even though it’s typically an inferior Cresselia.
Yoda2798: UR. Other Trick Room setters are much much better and Farigiraf doesn’t bring much to the table which you can’t get elsewhere. If you want a priority blocker as well then Indeedee-F is still better, while offensively Farigiraf is much worse post-home with the higher level of bulk in the meta (and also Diancie exists to do that).
Nido-Rus: UR, no reason left to use this with much better trick room setter options at this point. Not enough damage, not enough bulk, indeedee provides more value for anti-priority and trick room.
SMB: UR, I’d say there are no reasons to use it atm, its damage is not good enough and there are at least 3 better tr setters
JRL: UR. there are better trick room setters both offensively and defensively (diancie or cresselia) that makes it hardly used.
Madaraaaa: UR. Diancie surpassed it, armor tail ability is good but not enough ti have space in this meta.
Bage1: UR. Totally outclassed by Diancie as an offensive TR setter while still being outclassed by Indeedee wrt blocking priority. Doesn’t deal enough damage or have enough bulk to keep up with the meta.
Yoda2798: UR. Other Trick Room setters are much much better and Farigiraf doesn’t bring much to the table which you can’t get elsewhere. If you want a priority blocker as well then Indeedee-F is still better, while offensively Farigiraf is much worse post-home with the higher level of bulk in the meta (and also Diancie exists to do that).
Nido-Rus: UR, no reason left to use this with much better trick room setter options at this point. Not enough damage, not enough bulk, indeedee provides more value for anti-priority and trick room.
SMB: UR, I’d say there are no reasons to use it atm, its damage is not good enough and there are at least 3 better tr setters
JRL: UR. there are better trick room setters both offensively and defensively (diancie or cresselia) that makes it hardly used.
Madaraaaa: UR. Diancie surpassed it, armor tail ability is good but not enough ti have space in this meta.
Bage1: UR. Totally outclassed by Diancie as an offensive TR setter while still being outclassed by Indeedee wrt blocking priority. Doesn’t deal enough damage or have enough bulk to keep up with the meta.
Changes:
UR -> T5 T4 -> T5 T4 -> T5 T4 -> T5 T4 -> T5 T4 -> T5 T5 -> T4 T5 -> UR T5 -> T4 T5 -> UR T2 -> T3 T3 -> T2 T3 -> T4 T3 -> T2 T4 -> T3 T4 -> T5 T4 -> T5 UR -> T5 T3 -> T2 T2 -> T4 T5 -> T4 T4 -> T5 T2 -> T3 T3 -> T4 T5 -> T4 T5 -> T4 T4 -> UR T4 -> UR
5 —> 4Between the return of Flutter, introduction of Diancie, Cresselia, and Tera Grass Heatran, and the drop off of Farigiraf (and Tsareena and Bruxish) I think Scizor has slightly more of a niche than before. Nothing really wants to take CB Technician Bullet Punch outside of Volcanion and Heatran when it isnt Tera, and it can run bulky/Tera Fire/Swords Dance to maneuver out of some bad situations. Plus it works in TR or Tailwind depending on investment.
UR -> 2Basculegion-F still has the dumb endgames of 250-300BP Last Respects with Adaptability. It is noticeably worse than Basc-M, losing a lot of utility in the midgame to pick off things such as weakened Iron Hands and Volcanion, but most of the boons Basc-M had also apply to this. However, there's a lot of extra damage modifiers to make up this gap, such as Sword of Ruin, Helping Hand, and Tera. Games 1 and 2 from this recent set from OSDT shows Basc-F still being silly. You have a lot of room to be worse than Basc-M and still be a fantastic Pokemon.
2 -> 3This is not nearly metagame defining enough for Tier 2. It has quite low usage in OSDT (17th, under numerous T3 Pokemon) and I think it's viable basically as a counterpick. It is extremely strong into players who don't prepare much for it (low Steel-type usage, low Amoonguss usage, weak to TR) but it is shut down so hard by metagame staples such as Gholdengo and Amoonguss that I don't see this as a splashable semi-TR pick. It's also annoying to break through Cresselia with Diancie, as it resists Body Press, and being "meh" into the #2 usage Pokemon is not inspiring.
3 -> 5If this were solely up to me, I would UR Walking Wake in a heartbeat. I think the mon is embarrassing and underperforms on Sun, an archetype that is underperforming already. It struggles into Flutter Mane, which you're (usually) giving a speed boost with Sun, it can't break through Cresselia, and it can't break through Iron Hands. It's not allowed to run Choice Specs viably as this becomes easy to wall with the two main Grass-types of the tier, as well as Volcanion. It is easy to maneuver around with Speed Control and heavily clashes the type of speed you want on Sun - either Trick Room or Lilligant-Hisui which can boost your Torkoal's effective speed. Manual sun with Tornadus has also had pretty "meh" results in OSDT. It has a pretty embarrassing sub-40% winrate in the tournament so far and I think it's the weakest link of Sun archetypes.
i am too lazy to do chien-pao -> 1 and iron hands -> 1 right now but I think they deserve their own post anyway
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I am absolutely not your opinion. Yes, Amonguss with clear smog can be quite annoying, but spore is in time of Lunar blessing Cresselia a much worse tool then it was generations before. Furthermore, Amonguss is a sitting duck vs Safety Googles Cresselia, which is relative commonon TR/Semi TR teams.
This is not nearly metagame defining enough for Tier 2. It has quite low usage in OSDT (17th, under numerous T3 Pokemon) and I think it's viable basically as a counterpick. It is extremely strong into players who don't prepare much for it (low Steel-type usage, low Amoonguss usage, weak to TR) but it is shut down so hard by metagame staples such as Gholdengo and Amoonguss that I don't see this as a splashable semi-TR pick. It's also annoying to break through Cresselia with Diancie, as it resists Body Press, and being "meh" into the #2 usage Pokemon is not inspiring.
Moreover, Diancie is with a bit support an absolute reliable Tr Setter + can Sweep fast on its own, exspecially when the enemy doesnt play carefully around it. Diamond Storm does good and constant Damage while making Diancie brutally bulky. There are plenty of effective support picks for Diancie aviable (Cresselia, Pollen Puff Amoonguss, Fake Out Grimsnarl) which can deal with mostly of its checks.
And then there are (in my eyes) two stellar offensive Teammates for SemiTr/TR Teams:
- Kingambit, which can give you a lot of offensive pressure thanks to sucker punch. It completly destroys Cresselia, one of the best Diancie soft checks and can deal huge damage to Non-Terra Dark Amoonguss
- Volcanion, which can pressure a lot of Diancie Checks and profitate itself of its growing bulk and offensive presence. You will probably have the possibilty to sub serveral times.
The last and maybe most important point:
Diance is one of the best defensive and offensive Terra abusers i have seen. It has several options:
- Terra Grass to get an immunity to spore, Rage powder and revert it's ground weakness
- Terra Steel go get an immunity vs toxic, and clear smog while getting an cool defensive Typing and reverting its Steel weakness.
- Terra Water (my personal favorite), which almost complelely reverts the weaknesses of Diancie (most important: remove its massive Steel weakness) and makes it a brutal Tank. You can flip the matchup vs volcanion, pelipper, Walking Wake + Heatran completly. Only rillaboom stays a big offensive problem here.
Because of the massive Value, Diance can bring to Semi and Full Tr teams, beeing a defensive behemoth and offensive tank alike, I dont see why this mon should drop. Tier 2 is absolutely fine.
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UR -> Its better than most of Tier 3 if Im being real but I would settle for anywhere on the listI decided to check the vr after my game to see where y'all had my guy ranked and to my absolute dismay he didn't even make the list. Chesnaught has an incredibly appealing kit for an id/bp mon. Its natural typing allows it to win boosting wars vs things like sd hands and bulk up palafin, which makes it a lot more comfortable to durdle with than other options. It also gets stab on bp so it hits hard af compared to something like goodra-h. Leech Seed is really good on it too because it offers solid recovery vs most things it wants to set up on while also sometimes forcing switches which generates free turns for it to further snowball. It has access to a really convenient tera option in fire, which allows it to take things that would normally give it trouble, like chi yu fire moves, pao ice moves, tran fire moves etc. comfortably while it usually blows them up with a bp. It also allows it to wall fm very effectively which is both useful and hilarious. That is to bring mention to its ability, which not only allows the fm walling with tera but also allows it to make poison move-less amoong absolute set up fodder without tera. This mon has been one of if not the most comfortable to pilot defensive wincons Ive tried out in this meta, and I don't think it being unranked while things like samurott-h and regieleki see the light of tier 5 is right.
Here it can be seen dismantling a team in my week 1 derby game. It came in turn 1 and the game was pretty over without unfortunate circumstances:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1916474886
I promise this mon is really good please fix this
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I recently got done writing done posts about Singles and wanted to stop by and check on how the Doubles scene is looking, just because I get curious sometimes, you know? For the most part everything seems reasonable enough. Good choices for suspect tests, healthy development since HOME, the usual. There’s mainly just one thing I’m curious about.
Why is this thing the only Pokémon in your topmost Tier right now? In fact, wasn’t this thing banned before? I probably missed a Flutter Mane re-test or something, which is completely fine, but… like, isn’t only having one metagame option ranked in its own tier above everything else like this usually a bad thing? I feel like I’m missing something here, and curious little me would love to get caught up. Thanks in advance for the information :)
Edit: How do you do that text thing for the Paradox Pokémon again?
Arctic edit: it's sv/flutter-mane
Why is this thing the only Pokémon in your topmost Tier right now? In fact, wasn’t this thing banned before? I probably missed a Flutter Mane re-test or something, which is completely fine, but… like, isn’t only having one metagame option ranked in its own tier above everything else like this usually a bad thing? I feel like I’m missing something here, and curious little me would love to get caught up. Thanks in advance for the information :)
Edit: How do you do that text thing for the Paradox Pokémon again?
Arctic edit: it's sv/flutter-mane
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This is definitely a valid question, especially for someone less familiar with the tier. There actually has not been a Flutter test in the post-home metagame, as it has proved to be far less problematic with the increased power level that has arrived with the added mons.
There are for more viable defensive answers to Flutter Mane than there before, especially the two big fire types added, Volcanion and Heatran. Flutter Mane's abysmally low hp and defense also make it relatively easy to ko, which is more relevant now since more things are able to live the initial hit from flutter mane (1, 2, 3). Although Flutter Mane is obviously still very strong due to its speed and great stab coverage, its drawbacks are enough to make it far more reasonable to handle than in the pre-home metagame, where Flutter Mane + Chi-Yu was nearly unwallable. Chi-Yu, Flutter's preferred partner pre-home, is also notably less used than previously, as indicated by it being in tier 3 of the VR. This has also helped Flutter Mane to be easier to handle, since not having the ruin ability be near-constantly present allows a lot more mons to effectively handle Flutter.
In addition to all of that, there have been Pokemon that have had a far worse impact on the Post-Home Metagame than Flutter, such as both Urshifus, Ursaluna, and Basculegion-M, all of which have gotten banned. This has led to the VR not being constantly up to date with the latest metagame, as there are arguably other mons that could be tier 1 right now, such as Basculegion-F, which is currently the most divisive Pokemon in DOU due to basically doing the same thing as Basc-M, just slightly weaker overall. So although it might appear that Flutter Mane is the singular most dominant thread from the VR, that is not necessarily the case and other Pokemon have been and are more unhealthy for DOU. That is not to say Flutter Mane couldn't be suspected in the future, it is still very strong and can fit on a ridiculous number of teams, but it's currently not overpowering to the degree of needing to be banned in the opinion of most players and there have been other mons occupying our attention for most of the time since home released. We'll have to see how the metagame shakes out in the coming weeks and months as the metagame stabilizes (hopefully after a Basc-f ban, cough cough).
Hope this helps!
UR -> 4Farigiraf is used to enable Tailwind HO to completely ignore priority, while also having access to Imprison + Trick Room for TR matchups. This is something that's picked up in VGC due to the format (it is a very specialized mon, being able to bench it in not Chien-Pao/DNite and TR matchups is good) but it made Worlds Finals today! and still enables a lot of stupid things to happen in DOU. It's usually EVd to outspeed key threats in TW (should probably go up to Scarf Basc/Pult) and isn't a complete offensive slouch. Even if the mon itself doesn't do something in a game, it allows you to be greedier in the teambuilder because of all the roles it compresses, giving it a valuable niche.
edit: also imprisoning flutter dgleam is hilarious
Replays in OSDT:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1912415482-q5mswsmzu2ubh8b0zt5bx1h6irs14kcpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1912413265-rhc01189tx66u4zpmq8elt9zl2mwoxcpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-707140
3 -> 2This dominates a large portion of the games that it's able to get an SD in. It's not incredibly splashable and requires the team to be built around it but I don't see that as any different than BU Palafin which is also currently Tier 2. Tera Dark threatens the most ridiculous OHKOs, but the possibility of other Tera Types (like Fire, mostly) carries a completely different set of counterplay which can spiral out of control very quickly. There aren't many ways to reliably contain Kingambit (besides throwing a Hands on the team, which often isn't enough given the typical support partners of Cress and Amoong) and it often becomes the centerpiece of the entire game.
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With the Swiss portion of OSDT completing, we will be doing a new VR slate, so get your nominations in! We’ll begin voting on the slate this weekend (19th or 20th).
Please remember that if you’re nominating something unranked onto the VR to include a replay showcasing its viability.
Please remember that if you’re nominating something unranked onto the VR to include a replay showcasing its viability.
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