Rowlet, Dartrix, Decidueye Discussion

[nameless90]

Spirit Shackle / BP / (Feather Dance/Synthesis) / (SD/NP) looks super toxic to me. Y'all laughing at it but guess who you'll call prophet when it gets the boot from OU.

Spirit Shuckle is good because you can trap monsters, while dealing damage. If you are behind a Sub you can easily trap monsters you are supposed to beat 1 vs 1. The problem is: what monsters this thing can actually beat?
Is this enough to justify a spot into OU? In my opinion, no.

I think that Decidueye can beat only slow, fat monsters with the combination of Spirit Shuckle to trap things, Substitute to avoid status, Toxic (not even Leeech Seed or WoW) + a filler move.
Too bad Game Freak wasted so many points into that SpA stat (Spirit Shuckle is physical) instead of its Spe.

 

[Zepeln]

I can see it screwing with a lot of fatmons that tend to fill lower tiers, so it has that going for it. Tbh an overwhelming amount of mons from this gen are just...underwhelming. None of them in particular scream OU, although that could change in practice when the games actually come out.

 

[Redvader8]

I'm liking the idea of Assault vest with the set U-turn, spectral chains, leaf blade, and low sweep. IDK about how the evs could work out for it, but it would seem like it would favor HP, SPD, and maybe Attack?

EDIT: I forgot, it actually can be a pretty good wall for something like specs Keldeo, resists the stab hydro pump and immune to secret sword. It can also do well against something like diancie if we can figure the set out properly. I think i just hyped myself again to see what it can do.

 

[Doom Desire]

WHY GAMEFREAK?

WHY COULDN'T YOU JUST GIVE US A FAST GRASS/GHOST MON!?

Small Gourgeist is pretty fast.

 

[Ajwf]

This guy does have some serious bulky offense physical sets. He's probably going to have like 90 different effective sets in UU/OU... All because he has that trapping move. Brave Bird/SD/U-Turn/Leaf Blade/Shadow Trap move, Baton Pass, roost... He kinda reminds me of a dragonite of sorts, with plenty of good sets to use but maybe no real "S+" set.

Also to note his HA is actually really fantastic in OU. Makes no contact on Ferrothorn, Garchomp, RH lando/Chomp, no burn from Volcarona or similar, and no poison from toxapex's Brine Bunker protect move that will probably be fairly good.

 

[Blerght]

I was looking at the list of new moves and there is an anchor themed move that is pretty much spirit shackle. Did they just make two mons with the same types and signature move??

Anchor Shot The user entangles the target with its anchor chain\nwhile attacking. The target becomes unable to flee. Steel Physical 80 Power 100% Accuracy 20 PP Adjacent Pokémon Effect 384, similar to Spirit Shackle Flags 0x49 Corkscrew Crash (160 Power)

 

[Zepeln]

It could do well as a trapper, since it has two good recovery moves and it's speed isnt too bad as its not going to be a sweeper.

 

[ParadoxEngine]

I think Decidueye will be very good with some speed control support, maybe some stuff to spread Paralysis (I know T-Wave was just nerfed, but it's not obsolete and we still have Glare) or maybe even Sticky Web support. It also just so happens that Decidueye can block and trap Rapid Spinners, which gives it even more synergy with Sticky Web.

 

[Bombkirby]

Everyone on other sites have concluded that we should stop trying to make this guy a sweeper. He has other uses even though we all wish he was that super fast powerhouse

 

[Redvader8]

Everyone on other sites have concluded that we should stop trying to make this guy a sweeper. He has other uses even though we all wish he was that super fast powerhouse

Yeah thats what I came to conclude from looking at calcs as well. He has good options for hazard removal, trapping, and the lack of contact with HA tells me something along the lines of a bulky pivot like garchomp

 

[Absolclaw]

Decidueye is wearing a hoodie, is a Ghost type, evolved from an angsty teenager, dislikes contact and has trouble reaching out to others ...


Bloody emo bird.

 

[blasphemy1]

Uhh yeah, I'm actually a huge fan of this guy. Spirit Shackle / U-turn / Roost / Leaf Blade actually has great utility as a pivot. Spirit Shackle spam, U-turn out of T-tar and other shit, Leaf Blade for scaring off Azumarill, Keldeo, and Rotom-W. It is on the slow side but it's fast enough to outspeed some slower walls and T-tar. It's really a shame that they wasted any special attack on it but playtests will see if its any good. I think it will work well with Rotom-W and Mega Scizor.

 

[Oddish.]

Yeah, this thing is probably not gonna see the light of day as a sweeper, but pivot Decidueye is something I can get behind. I was thinking also offensive defogger, potentially.

 

[Shephen912]

It can do a cute thing like Spirit Shackle / Swords Dance(or Nasty Plot) / Baton Pass / Synthesis or Defog or Leaf Blade. Trap something, boost up and BP into some offensive monster and have them sweep. I see a lot of potential with its pretty great move pool and am excited to see how it holds up.

 

[Redvader8]

It can actually set up a pretty good Volt-Turn core alongside Mega-Manectric. Manectric absolutely hates ground types such as hippo, bulky psychics like the lati twins, and hates hazards on your side. So Decidueye can team up with it well with shackles on lati@s, Leaf blade on ground types, and can run defog to boot. I can see U-turn, Leaf blade, Shackles, and defog as its set. Thoughts on the possible item? Leftovers is my initial idea

 

[ParadoxEngine]

Does anyone think Decidueye might be a good Z-Move user? I think Spirit Shackle is really what makes Decidueye, and with a Z-Move it might be able to eliminate certain team threats it traps whether it's with it's signature, Grass or a coverage Z-Move. Also with Baton Pass it could possibly make good use of status Z-Moves.

 

[Redvader8]

So taking a look vs some of the threats I can think of that Decidueye can face while in OU, lets look at some calcs:

With EVs as follows
248/20/0/0/240/0
Careful

20 Atk Decidueye Spectral Shackles vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 222-264 (74.2 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
also high chance of killing after stealth rocks

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Decidueye: 200-238 (55.7 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

20 Atk Decidueye Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 150-176 (35.7 - 41.9%) -- 83.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
maximum damage taken in return 0 Atk Hippowdon Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 101-119 (28.1 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

20 Atk Decidueye Spectral Shackles vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 162-192 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO

0 SpA Mega Latias Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Decidueye: 126-150 (35 - 41.7%) -- 80.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

20 Atk Decidueye Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 336-400 (85.2 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

I would calc chansey but with possible eviolite nerf idk if its going to be used or not. Either way chansey needs to toxic it in order to kill, it cant hit it

20 Atk Decidueye Spectral Shackles vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 186-222 (46 - 54.9%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Jirachi Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 174-206 (48.4 - 57.3%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

20 Atk Decidueye Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 228-270 (70.5 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Decidueye: 132-156 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

20 Atk Decidueye Spectral Shackles vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 186-222 (46 - 54.9%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

20 Atk Decidueye Spectral Shackles vs. 16 HP / 8 Def Mega Gardevoir: 264-312 (93.9 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

232 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 196-232 (54.5 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

20 Atk Decidueye Spectral Shackles vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 282-332 (108.8 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Decidueye: 250-296 (69.6 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Decidueye: 90-106 (25 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Mega Manectric Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Decidueye: 146-174 (40.6 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Slowbro Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Decidueye: 109-130 (30.3 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Decidueye: 156-185 (43.4 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

20 Atk Decidueye Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 240-284 (92.6 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 240+ SpD Decidueye: 122-146 (33.9 - 40.6%) -- 43.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So far, with my pretty basic bulk, focused more on SPD. he seems to be pretty good at the idea for a pivot, probably needs access to roost in order to use him most effectively, so maybe removal of u-turn could be a good idea.

 

[Redvader8]

Does anyone think Decidueye might be a good Z-Move user? I think Spirit Shackle is really what makes Decidueye, and with a Z-Move it might be able to eliminate certain team threats it traps whether it's with it's signature, Grass or a coverage Z-Move. Also with Baton Pass it could possibly make good use of status Z-Moves.

I dont think so. the Z-Moves seem best on users who would be sweepers and need to break through a big wall. Decidueye seems like a bulky pivot from my perspective. It would be different if it can be used more than once, but especially in singles, someone is more than likely going to switch out against decidueye, so killing what you need to with the Z-move will be unlikely if i had to guess.

 

[Oddish.]

So far, with my pretty basic bulk, he seems to be pretty good at the idea for a pivot, probably needs access to roost in order to use him most effectively, so maybe removal of u-turn could be a good idea.

Why remove U-turn on a pivot? Maybe the set can be Shackle/Leaf Blade/U-turn/Roost? Unless you had some other move in mind.

Does anyone think Decidueye might be a good Z-Move user? I think Spirit Shackle is really what makes Decidueye, and with a Z-Move it might be able to eliminate certain team threats it traps whether it's with it's signature, Grass or a coverage Z-Move. Also with Baton Pass it could possibly make good use of status Z-Moves.

The thing about z-moves is we don't know how viable they'll be as a whole in singles format, and how useful it'll be on a mon like Decidueye compared to some other set. There are certain pokemon who really value certain held items and can't afford to lose them.

 

[Redvader8]

Why remove U-turn on a pivot? Maybe the set can be Shackle/Leaf Blade/U-turn/Roost? Unless you had some other move in mind.

I was thinking more along the lines of defog, but we could run a rapid spinner in the form of excadrill or something like that. but that was the original idea i had.

 

[Oddish.]

I was thinking more along the lines of defog, but we could run a rapid spinner in the form of excadrill or something like that. but that was the original idea i had.

I think both sets could work, I guess it would depend on what you need more.

 

[blasphemy1]

You need to be investing max HP / 248 if it gives max lefties recovery in this guy and choose a defensive stat to specialize in. Splitting between the two defenses is just going to make it mediocre at both. It'll depend on your team and the meta game surrounding it but pivots tend to target specific threats they can take advantage of rather than a general tank.

 

[Redvader8]

You need to be investing max HP / 248 if it gives max lefties recovery in this guy and choose a defensive stat to specialize in. Splitting between the two defenses is just going to make it mediocre at both. It'll depend on your team and the meta game surrounding it but pivots tend to target specific threats they can take advantage of rather than a general tank.

Yeah the stats are definitely better like that. i adjusted it to 248/20/0/0/240/0, Ill have to readjust the top calcs to show the new changes but for first glance it looks way better.

 

[Siggu]

Everyone on other sites have concluded that we should stop trying to make this guy a sweeper. He has other uses even though we all wish he was that super fast powerhouse

Well, for starters (pun intended), it lacks the speed or enough punch to sweep.

Its whole niche would run around Spirit Shackle. Baton Passing +6 boosts in front of something that cannot hurt it is the first thing that comes to my head.

 

[Oddish.]

Well, for starters (pun intended), it lacks the speed or enough punch to sweep.

Its whole niche would run around Spirit Shackle. Baton Passing +6 boosts in front of something that cannot hurt it is the first thing that comes to my head.

I mean, there are certain pokemon who initially don't have enough power to sweep, but can with a boosting move. Decidueye's got two good ones, so in this case, it really is mostly its speed holding it back.

Spirit Shackle is almost certainly gonna be the must have move on any Decidueye set. Causing damage and trapping makes for some pretty interesting strategies, like the Baton Passing thing you mentioned.