AWailOfATail
viva la darmz
Stoutland
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
OM CCaT (STAB-Mons) (Phase 3: Nominate for Pokemon 6)
- Thread starter Snaquaza
- Start date
A pretty clear winner again: Forretress
You may now nominate for the fourth Pokemon
Our team so far:
Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 188 Atk / 252 Spd / 68 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Oblivion Wing
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD
Impish
- Spikes
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def /4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Heal Order
- U-Turn
- Gyro Ball
You may now nominate for the fourth Pokemon
Our team so far:
Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 188 Atk / 252 Spd / 68 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Oblivion Wing
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD
Impish
- Spikes
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def /4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Heal Order
- U-Turn
- Gyro Ball
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
i don't want to nominate just yet...but it looks like we are trying to make a more balanced team. i can tell we need something to tank boombursts from random pokes, and a special tank (walls arent very good in this meta unless they serve a specific purpose, i.e. forretress w/ rapid spin and gyro ball for speed boosting pokes) to dish out damage while sponging many hits.
I'm thinking SDef meloetta, but i don't want to post the set yet, especially since its not mine. i'll see what other people come up with first.
I'm thinking SDef meloetta, but i don't want to post the set yet, especially since its not mine. i'll see what other people come up with first.
To be more direct now what we need is priority, and while yes there are like all ice, steel, normal, fighting, ghost, water and dark type pokémon to choose from but I have an interesting idea, Bulk Up Heal Order Mach Punch Rock Blast Mega Herocross!
I know what you are saying: "But Ewan what about Talonflame and Stountland and Sableye?" and that is why I changed it to a thing none of those can touch:
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 8 SDef / 248 HP / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Rock Blast
- Mach Punch
- Heal Order
"What is the difference?" Well sub, sub makes a big difference since sub takes brave birds, will-o-wisps and fake outs, letting Heracross become a better bulky attacker with healing abilities, yes this is flawed because of Mach Punch's low BP and Rock Blast not being STAB but it has good coverage and deals well with most pokémon bar Aeghislash and and a couple of other that Thundurus can take out easily.
I know what you are saying: "But Ewan what about Talonflame and Stountland and Sableye?" and that is why I changed it to a thing none of those can touch:
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 8 SDef / 248 HP / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Rock Blast
- Mach Punch
- Heal Order
"What is the difference?" Well sub, sub makes a big difference since sub takes brave birds, will-o-wisps and fake outs, letting Heracross become a better bulky attacker with healing abilities, yes this is flawed because of Mach Punch's low BP and Rock Blast not being STAB but it has good coverage and deals well with most pokémon bar Aeghislash and and a couple of other that Thundurus can take out easily.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
okay heres what i have to say about that:
this team will need priority, thats a fact. however, mach punch is NOT the way to go in stabmons. Most of priority is espeed, which is +2 whereas mach punch is +1. this is extremely important for these teams especially as without priority you will find a hard time using most pokes, and +1 priority really doesn't give you that much in this meta.
if you want priority, it needs to be fake out + espeed. other priority can be used on different pokes, but not in the role of priority support you are highlighting. We can go for a sweeper or a hard hitter, a sweeper with bulk and power, as well as a strong unboosted ESpeed, or a powerful fake out + espeeder, that can just provide the team with great utility in the form of unboosted powerful extremespeeds.
this leads me to want to choose one of two pokemon, both of which very prevalent in stabmons, but suprisingly underused for their purpose.
So the decision must be made for the prioritymon on this team. An espeeder is literally mandatory in stabmons unless you are running stall, and no stall is going to run defiant thundurus. or any thundurus.
Much thought must be made, and there is one prevalent argument for each mon:
To use Khan: Thundy is a wallbreaker we need a sweeper
to use ursa: this team is bulky and shouldnt run a sweeper, and i have more power unboosted.
eventually, i came to this decision:
Currently we have a physical tank, a physical wall with the role of defogging, and a mixed kinda-sweeper. We know we need priority - but we don't want a sweeper yet. we havent completed our core yet, and without running bulky offense or balanced, which we arent adamant on running yet, we need to complete the core to be able to handle common threats. we should not use a sweeper, we should use a poke that is both threatening and provides great utility, and has no need to set up in any way. therefore i will favor ursaring, however the other option remains on the table.
Ursaring @ Flame orb
Ability: Guts
Evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fake out
- ExtremeSpeed
- Close Combat
- Fire Punch
The first move listed should be used in most scenarios, with facade being a bit gimmicky, however the extra power is pretty awesome. Fire punch + close combat provides better super effective coverage however is walled by chandelure (which is unused in this meta) and jellicent (ditto), while close combat + crunch provides perfect neutral coverage.
this team will need priority, thats a fact. however, mach punch is NOT the way to go in stabmons. Most of priority is espeed, which is +2 whereas mach punch is +1. this is extremely important for these teams especially as without priority you will find a hard time using most pokes, and +1 priority really doesn't give you that much in this meta.
if you want priority, it needs to be fake out + espeed. other priority can be used on different pokes, but not in the role of priority support you are highlighting. We can go for a sweeper or a hard hitter, a sweeper with bulk and power, as well as a strong unboosted ESpeed, or a powerful fake out + espeeder, that can just provide the team with great utility in the form of unboosted powerful extremespeeds.
this leads me to want to choose one of two pokemon, both of which very prevalent in stabmons, but suprisingly underused for their purpose.
Kangaskhan (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- ExtremeSpeed
- Fire Punch / Sucker Punch
- Earthquake / Sucker Punch
the first set is a belly drum kangaskhan set, which once it is set up, can proceed to destroy about anything in its path with scrappy extremespeeds. this also means you have a sweeper that is completely immune to sableye, it just punches right through with scrappy espeed. Very little can live a +6 stab extremespeed, meaning we have an extremely viable sweeper....Jolly nature with max speed is used to make sure we outspeed most espeed resists as well as other espeeders. Sucker punch can be used over either of the last two slots for another priority move against steels and the like, but really i find isin't the best option. Fire punch is very important to this set to deal with ferrothorn and scizor, mega scizor being a much more prominent threat....Earthquake is used to deal with heatran, which otherwise, usually physically defensive in this meta can wall espeed completely, and potentially force your +6 attack down with king's shield should it use that. The 4 HP evs are too ensure you immediately get sitrus boost upon drumming. This allows me to have 75% health to start a sweep if i forced a switch, which is greatly useful. This set provides a great sweeper for the team as well as the all important priority that is needed in stabmons in general.
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- ExtremeSpeed
- Fire Punch / Sucker Punch
- Earthquake / Sucker Punch
the first set is a belly drum kangaskhan set, which once it is set up, can proceed to destroy about anything in its path with scrappy extremespeeds. this also means you have a sweeper that is completely immune to sableye, it just punches right through with scrappy espeed. Very little can live a +6 stab extremespeed, meaning we have an extremely viable sweeper....Jolly nature with max speed is used to make sure we outspeed most espeed resists as well as other espeeders. Sucker punch can be used over either of the last two slots for another priority move against steels and the like, but really i find isin't the best option. Fire punch is very important to this set to deal with ferrothorn and scizor, mega scizor being a much more prominent threat....Earthquake is used to deal with heatran, which otherwise, usually physically defensive in this meta can wall espeed completely, and potentially force your +6 attack down with king's shield should it use that. The 4 HP evs are too ensure you immediately get sitrus boost upon drumming. This allows me to have 75% health to start a sweep if i forced a switch, which is greatly useful. This set provides a great sweeper for the team as well as the all important priority that is needed in stabmons in general.
Ursaring @ Flame orb / Toxic orb
Ability: Guts
Evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def (can be tuned)
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Fake out
- ExtremeSpeed
- Close Combat / Facade?
- Fire Punch / Crunch / Facade?
The good old Ursaring. Fake out + espeed with guts is a great way to stop sweeps that arent faster. while this set doesnt have the ability to take out sableye easily, it really isin't a loss for the most part. fake out + guts boosted extremespeed hits for unfair amounts of damage, and the guts boost makes it a great move. In general, this thing is a great answer to general priority, and is a very powerful poke in the process. not only this, but you can add facade to make it a wallbreaker. you give it a guts-boosted stab physical boomburst off of base 130. yeah thats just kind of unfair. You want to talk about power....Evs and nature are customizable, the set i gave is standard but you can tune it to fit the team...i'm open for what evs to use for this team. Adamant/jolly is tweakable for the same reason, with adamant making facade do unreal amounts of damage. This poke also has the advantage of not being able to be put to sleep, which means that switching it into sableye is an option since all it can really do is parting shot (if it has it). The coverage for non-facade variants is standard, and provides good coverage against non-espeeders. Good old ursaring might be a great fit for the team.
Ability: Guts
Evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def (can be tuned)
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Fake out
- ExtremeSpeed
- Close Combat / Facade?
- Fire Punch / Crunch / Facade?
The good old Ursaring. Fake out + espeed with guts is a great way to stop sweeps that arent faster. while this set doesnt have the ability to take out sableye easily, it really isin't a loss for the most part. fake out + guts boosted extremespeed hits for unfair amounts of damage, and the guts boost makes it a great move. In general, this thing is a great answer to general priority, and is a very powerful poke in the process. not only this, but you can add facade to make it a wallbreaker. you give it a guts-boosted stab physical boomburst off of base 130. yeah thats just kind of unfair. You want to talk about power....Evs and nature are customizable, the set i gave is standard but you can tune it to fit the team...i'm open for what evs to use for this team. Adamant/jolly is tweakable for the same reason, with adamant making facade do unreal amounts of damage. This poke also has the advantage of not being able to be put to sleep, which means that switching it into sableye is an option since all it can really do is parting shot (if it has it). The coverage for non-facade variants is standard, and provides good coverage against non-espeeders. Good old ursaring might be a great fit for the team.
So the decision must be made for the prioritymon on this team. An espeeder is literally mandatory in stabmons unless you are running stall, and no stall is going to run defiant thundurus. or any thundurus.
Much thought must be made, and there is one prevalent argument for each mon:
To use Khan: Thundy is a wallbreaker we need a sweeper
to use ursa: this team is bulky and shouldnt run a sweeper, and i have more power unboosted.
eventually, i came to this decision:
Currently we have a physical tank, a physical wall with the role of defogging, and a mixed kinda-sweeper. We know we need priority - but we don't want a sweeper yet. we havent completed our core yet, and without running bulky offense or balanced, which we arent adamant on running yet, we need to complete the core to be able to handle common threats. we should not use a sweeper, we should use a poke that is both threatening and provides great utility, and has no need to set up in any way. therefore i will favor ursaring, however the other option remains on the table.
Ursaring @ Flame orb
Ability: Guts
Evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Fake out
- ExtremeSpeed
- Close Combat
- Fire Punch
The first move listed should be used in most scenarios, with facade being a bit gimmicky, however the extra power is pretty awesome. Fire punch + close combat provides better super effective coverage however is walled by chandelure (which is unused in this meta) and jellicent (ditto), while close combat + crunch provides perfect neutral coverage.
Last edited:
canno
formerly The Reptile
I'll post one of my favorite fake out + espeed mons in the game - Diggersby!
Diggersby @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- ExtremeSpeed
- Fake Out
- Head Charge
Fake Out + ESpeed is great, and Diggersby is just so strong. Head Charge is also a cool and powerful move that lets Diggersby break through walls. What's cool is that you can tell how much everything else does on something based off how much damage a previous move did (ESPeed does twice as much as Fake Out, and Head Charge does 3x as much. Head Charge also does 1.5x as much as ESpeed.) Earthquake is great for slamming Tran, which is common. It also wrecks Aegislash.
Diggersby @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- ExtremeSpeed
- Fake Out
- Head Charge
Fake Out + ESpeed is great, and Diggersby is just so strong. Head Charge is also a cool and powerful move that lets Diggersby break through walls. What's cool is that you can tell how much everything else does on something based off how much damage a previous move did (ESPeed does twice as much as Fake Out, and Head Charge does 3x as much. Head Charge also does 1.5x as much as ESpeed.) Earthquake is great for slamming Tran, which is common. It also wrecks Aegislash.
Why use huge power if you have moar balk and the ability to bypass those pesky Ghosties? Introducing:
Tyler Perry's Madea (Kangaskhan) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch
This is a very underused and unorthodox set focusing on Kang's bulk, power (even without a setup move), access to Drain Punch, Fake Out+E-Speed combo, and ability to bypass those pesky Ghost-types, often hitting them for Super Effective damage (see Sableye and Aegislash) in the process. Kang can tank hits better than you think, especially with its Assault Vest. Recovery is terrific on a Vest set, and Fake Out + E-Speed is Fake Out + E-Speed.
Tyler Perry's Madea (Kangaskhan) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch
This is a very underused and unorthodox set focusing on Kang's bulk, power (even without a setup move), access to Drain Punch, Fake Out+E-Speed combo, and ability to bypass those pesky Ghost-types, often hitting them for Super Effective damage (see Sableye and Aegislash) in the process. Kang can tank hits better than you think, especially with its Assault Vest. Recovery is terrific on a Vest set, and Fake Out + E-Speed is Fake Out + E-Speed.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
hope it doesnt become centralizing though...don't want to have to run chansey or another wishpasser on this team...(chansey is better with transform anyways). albeit, thats an interesting set i might try out. i still like SDef meloetta better tho, since you can use it to beat transform chansey (with normal/psychic coverage being so redundant and all).
Low activity, I'd like to see more :/ anyway vote for:
Dark Mage Ewan 's Bulky Heracross-Mega
xJownage 's Revenge Killer Ursaring
The Reptile 's Revenge Killer Diggersby
simsims2800 's Revenge Killer Kangaskhan
Have fun voting, feel free to discuss and keep the activity up!
Dark Mage Ewan 's Bulky Heracross-Mega
xJownage 's Revenge Killer Ursaring
The Reptile 's Revenge Killer Diggersby
simsims2800 's Revenge Killer Kangaskhan
Have fun voting, feel free to discuss and keep the activity up!
AWailOfATail
viva la darmz
Diggersby tho
(Kangas)KHAAAAAAAAAN
Kang , and I do admit cross was a bit of a farfetch but the concept looked cool
EV
Banned deucer.
Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 188 Atk / 252 Spd / 68 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Oblivion Wing
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SDef
Impish
- Spikes
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def /4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Heal Order
- U-Turn
- Gyro Ball
Tyler Perry's Madea (Kangaskhan) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 188 Atk / 252 Spd / 68 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Oblivion Wing
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SDef
Impish
- Spikes
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def /4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Heal Order
- U-Turn
- Gyro Ball
Tyler Perry's Madea (Kangaskhan) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake
- Drain Punch
I want to see a special attacker on this team since so far we only have Thundurus's Oblivion Wing and Grass Knot for special coverage. There are two I'm considering: Keldeo and Meloetta. Keldeo would add another Grass weakness, but Thundurus and Forretress can take those well so I'm not too concerned. It also adds an Electric, Psychic, Fairy, and Flying weakness to the team. Meloetta would only add Bug and Dark weaknesses, but it requires more setup than Keldeo and can be stopped by Sableye's Topsy Turvy.
I'm going to nominate Keldeo, providing our next Pokemon can remedy some of its weaknesses.
Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
Keldeo will almost always spam Water Spout until its HP gets too low, then it will switch to Hydro Pump. Secret Sword provides secondary STAB and a way to nail Chansey harder. I chose Hidden Power Ghost for the last slot to let it hit Lati@s, the Slowbrothers, and Jellicent for super-effective damage. Without a super-effective move for Jellicent, however uncommon it can be, Keldeo can't touch it. I know this because I've run Jellicent to counter Keldeo. This still means it can't hurt Venusaur, but Icy Wind will only do neutral damage against the Thick Fat version once it mega evolves anyway. Thundurus is a good check to most Venusaurs without Spore, however, so I'm not too worried about it. The pony isn't quite as threatening as it was in Gen V with permanent rain, but 150 bp Water Spout still hurts, so try to keep its HP high by avoiding Fake Out+Espeeders if you can!
I'm going to nominate Talonflame
Talonflame@Earth Plate
Ability:Gale Wings
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Oblivion Wing
- Blue Flare
- Judgment
This set is really straightforward simply smash and use the move you want Oblivion wing is here because stab and recovery blue flare is for the second stab and judgment ground to take care of heatran although you're walled by rotom-w so it's not a big deal
Talonflame@Earth Plate
Ability:Gale Wings
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shell Smash
- Oblivion Wing
- Blue Flare
- Judgment
This set is really straightforward simply smash and use the move you want Oblivion wing is here because stab and recovery blue flare is for the second stab and judgment ground to take care of heatran although you're walled by rotom-w so it's not a big deal
The team so far seems it has some, but few flaws, first thing a faster Pokémon than Thundurus with a super effective move and Taunt can shut down part of the team, still Pokémon with those features are either frail enough to be killed by kang or can't kill Thundurus.
In fact what counters this team the best is itself strangely, Kang kill Thundurus, Thundurus kills Quagsire, Quagsire kills Kanga, but what kill them all?
A scarfer with strong moves and a resistence to Normal is a death sentence if the player is not that good, specially if it has access to Grass Moves for Quagsire, Leafeon sounds great, Shell Smash, Grass Moves and E-Speed, for that reason Sawsbuck too but takes a lot from Fake Out+ Extremespeed, Mismagius has Energy Ball but isn't up for Stabmons with that 105 speed and no way to boost it outside of a scarf plus Scrappy kang, Gourgeist is perfect but no way to boost and the lack of good physical ghost stab that isn't priority or a 2turn move oh and that attack isn't that good, Rock polish cradily? shift gear steel?
Either way the team core is good, in fact very good so far, a special set-up sweeper and a special wall would be my next pics, but specialy oriented sweeper gets shut by blissey( unless if psychic) and in fact any set up sweeper gets shut by sableye so screw it Scarf Latios
Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psystrike
- Spacial Rend
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick
This doesn't care about Sableye as it can trick it the scarf and screw it and Blissey because Psystrike
In fact what counters this team the best is itself strangely, Kang kill Thundurus, Thundurus kills Quagsire, Quagsire kills Kanga, but what kill them all?
A scarfer with strong moves and a resistence to Normal is a death sentence if the player is not that good, specially if it has access to Grass Moves for Quagsire, Leafeon sounds great, Shell Smash, Grass Moves and E-Speed, for that reason Sawsbuck too but takes a lot from Fake Out+ Extremespeed, Mismagius has Energy Ball but isn't up for Stabmons with that 105 speed and no way to boost it outside of a scarf plus Scrappy kang, Gourgeist is perfect but no way to boost and the lack of good physical ghost stab that isn't priority or a 2turn move oh and that attack isn't that good, Rock polish cradily? shift gear steel?
Either way the team core is good, in fact very good so far, a special set-up sweeper and a special wall would be my next pics, but specialy oriented sweeper gets shut by blissey( unless if psychic) and in fact any set up sweeper gets shut by sableye so screw it Scarf Latios
Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psystrike
- Spacial Rend
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick
This doesn't care about Sableye as it can trick it the scarf and screw it and Blissey because Psystrike