Kyurem
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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
OM CCaT (STAB-Mons) (Phase 3: Nominate for Pokemon 6)
- Thread starter Snaquaza
- Start date
Boufallant, you can't argue with its hair.
Voting Period is over:
8 Mixed Thundurus
4 CB Kyurem-Black
2 Tank Heatran
2 Bouffalant
1 Mega Charizard Y
This means Mixed Thundurus by Asterat is our winner, welcome in the team!
Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 188 Atk / 252 Spd / 68 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Oblivion Wing
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot
Yes I just take the first slash
You can now nominate and discuss about the second team slot
8 Mixed Thundurus
4 CB Kyurem-Black
2 Tank Heatran
2 Bouffalant
1 Mega Charizard Y
This means Mixed Thundurus by Asterat is our winner, welcome in the team!
Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 188 Atk / 252 Spd / 68 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Bolt Strike
- Oblivion Wing
- Knock Off
- Grass Knot
Yes I just take the first slash
You can now nominate and discuss about the second team slot
Of course you can, but you have to think about Team Synergy.
Eh i guess your right reserved for my poke.
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SDef
Bold Nature
- Transform
- Wish
- Seismic Toss
- Aromatherapy
Chansey is amazing in STABmons, not only because it can take +2 STAB -ate moves, but also because it can do something more deadly - Transform. The premise would be to use Wish if the opponent hasn't set up already and then use Transform to gain whatever boosts the opponent had, only with a phenomenal bulk of 255 HP + Eviolite. Use Transform straight away if the opponent has already set up. It also performs a very important role of Wish/Aromatherapy support. It's a safe switch in into a lot of the tier's prominent threats. Just be sure what you Transform into. The only downside is that Leech Seed or Oblivion Wing enable the opponent to restore loads of HP. If you lose the Speed Tie hax one too many time, you'll never be able to KO them.
tldr: If you can't beat them, be them.
Espeon @ Chesto Berry
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Def
Nature: Calm
Ability: Magic Bounce
Moves:
Rest
Imprison
Transform
Sing
This works in 1v1 (Spore, Imprison, Transform Smeargle) so why shouldn't it work with much better stats? Probably best is Imprison -> Transform, possibly using Rest to heal. Can also be switched in against a status move user. Sing is a filler move, might have to be used though.
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Def
Nature: Calm
Ability: Magic Bounce
Moves:
Rest
Imprison
Transform
Sing
This works in 1v1 (Spore, Imprison, Transform Smeargle) so why shouldn't it work with much better stats? Probably best is Imprison -> Transform, possibly using Rest to heal. Can also be switched in against a status move user. Sing is a filler move, might have to be used though.
I don't want to run this CCAT, but you guys aren't submitting mons that pair up well with thundurus at all. The mons you submitted are more of mons to base a team around, and we already picked that pokemon. In my experience Thundurus really likes hazard support (especially spikes.) There are tons of cool ground types that can use spikes and I think one of those will complement Thundurus much better than what's already posted. Thundurus either gets defiant off of defog or smashed everything with hazards up, it's a win/win.
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Dark Void
What better way to make a team around a pokemon by Asterat by adding his favorite one. In all seriousness this thing is an absolute beast at hazard setting, knock off gives it so much utility along with dark void. It's kind of like a shuckle and smeargle hybrid being able to put mons to sleep while being able to come in multiple times.. It has terrific type synergy with thundy also, fighting just switch to thundy etc. Ttar is also a really good check to talonflame. If we do end up adding this, we will probably need a steel type because we are week to cloyster, who afaik is rather common on the ladder both high and low.
P.S. The evs are to survive two +1 zard x dragon claws and stuff like that, give ttar a lefties hp number, and increase it's special defense even more in the sand. I hope I have convinced you that ttar should be our next mon :)
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Dark Void
What better way to make a team around a pokemon by Asterat by adding his favorite one. In all seriousness this thing is an absolute beast at hazard setting, knock off gives it so much utility along with dark void. It's kind of like a shuckle and smeargle hybrid being able to put mons to sleep while being able to come in multiple times.. It has terrific type synergy with thundy also, fighting just switch to thundy etc. Ttar is also a really good check to talonflame. If we do end up adding this, we will probably need a steel type because we are week to cloyster, who afaik is rather common on the ladder both high and low.
P.S. The evs are to survive two +1 zard x dragon claws and stuff like that, give ttar a lefties hp number, and increase it's special defense even more in the sand. I hope I have convinced you that ttar should be our next mon :)
Going asterat's post about spikes, how about an offensive spiking nido? They can use fire blast and earth power to beat things like heatran and ferrothorn which shrug off everything our thunderus can throw at them. Furthermore, they can use the last slot for more hazards (be they rocks or t-spikes), focus blast to hit all the normals, sludge wave for sylveon, or ice beam for further coverage.
EV
Banned deucer.
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD
Impish / Relaxed Nature
- Spikes
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Waterfall / Scald
I added Quagsire for a few reasons. First is the Spikes support that Asterat's Thundurus wants. Second is the ability Unaware combined with solid physical bulk to check a lot of setup sweepers. Third is the Water/Ground typing which gives it a sole weakness to Grass, one of Thundurus's resists, while resisting Rock, one of Thundurus's weaknesses.
Besides Spikes, it carries Recover, which is a must on Quagsire sets so it can take repeated hits. Earthquake is a mandatory STAB move that does a fair amount of damage. The choice of Waterfall versus Scald comes down to whether you want to secure an extra KO against some weakened foes or whether you want to try your luck at spreading Burns. Overall, Quagsire is a good utility choice to support Thundurus.
canno
formerly The Reptile
I'm going to post other support, although I feel that Quagsire is really good support. That mon is Sylveon! Wait, come back! It's not a sweeper set, I swear!
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Boomburst
- Slack Off
- Lovely Kiss / Heal Bell
So this is spinsylveon - making Defog looks weak in comparison. Pixilate makes Rapid Spin unblockable, making it the best hazard removing attack - tied with Scrappy Rapid Spin. Boomburst gives Sylveon a lot of power even with a defensive spread. Slack Off is recovery, and Lovely Kiss is a sleep move, although Heal Bell can be used instead if we want to rely on a more reliable sleep move (75 accuracy isn't too bad though). I stick with the idea that Sylveon should always run physically defensive if its a bulky spread, and here is no exception. This makes it so it can actually take physical attacks, and actually decently well. Overall though, this is a pretty neat support mon, and spin support is nice for Thundy because of its hazard weakness. Maybe it's a bit early for spin support, seeing as we only have Thundy, but I'll leave the option here for those who want spin and want it now.
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Boomburst
- Slack Off
- Lovely Kiss / Heal Bell
So this is spinsylveon - making Defog looks weak in comparison. Pixilate makes Rapid Spin unblockable, making it the best hazard removing attack - tied with Scrappy Rapid Spin. Boomburst gives Sylveon a lot of power even with a defensive spread. Slack Off is recovery, and Lovely Kiss is a sleep move, although Heal Bell can be used instead if we want to rely on a more reliable sleep move (75 accuracy isn't too bad though). I stick with the idea that Sylveon should always run physically defensive if its a bulky spread, and here is no exception. This makes it so it can actually take physical attacks, and actually decently well. Overall though, this is a pretty neat support mon, and spin support is nice for Thundy because of its hazard weakness. Maybe it's a bit early for spin support, seeing as we only have Thundy, but I'll leave the option here for those who want spin and want it now.
As we'll test the team after it's done in the STAB-Mons meta we'll go with the after the bans one. Also if something that we chose gets banned, we'll replace it.
Phase 1
What Thundurus needs more than anything is:
1.Entry hazards support
2.Rapid Spin/Defog support
3.Priority
The pokemon that can fulfill that rule are: Donphan, Gliscor(Lol quick attack), Kabutops, Excadrill, Forretress, Empoleon(If you want to go physical), Keckleon, Mew(of course), Skarmory and Scizor.
Phase 2
The pokemon should also have a resistance to Stealth rocks to minimize the damage taken by Stealth rocks when it enters to clean the field, a resistance to Ice would also be appreciated but the rock resist is more important reducing the list to: Donphan and Excadril, while the other pokemon are still viable choices, Gliscor doesn't have good priority, Kabutops is frail even if Thundurus covers its weaknesses rather well, Empoleon and Kecleon is rather easy to see why, Mew doesn't have a appreciated typing, Skarmory doesn't cover weaknesses or gets weaknesses covered, and scizor doesn't like having to waste a moveslot in sticky web and another in defog even if it is the most offensive of them all. I'll keep Forretress on the run because all entry hazards+Heal order+ rapid spin+ bullet punch can do work.
Phase 3
Between Donphan, Excadrill and Forretress we have to see what we want, Donphan and Forretress are walls while Excadrill is a attacker, priority is one of the things I wanted because of the lack of priority on Thundurus is bad making him struggle against priority users, having priority also gives them a way to finish what Thundurus didn't end, and this is where my struggle to choose begins Foretress is bulky, has all entry hazards and has recovery , Excadrill has 2 types of entry hazards, amazing attack being the best revenge killer and the best speed but doesn't have the right bulk, and donphan has the attack but unSTAB priority, 2 entry hazards and good bulk but lack of recovery, so I decided to cut Donphan because while his priority helped him against dragons it was unstab with only 40bp and while bulky he didn't have recovery to help withstand many blows.
Phase 4
Excadrill and Forretress have both many important features besides those mentioned above, Excadrill also has better speed and 4x resistance to rock and fantastic HP, Forretress has overcoat to take care of many spore spammers but unfortunately misses the cut because it is still set up fodder and can't do much to pokemon who he cant Toxic or finish of with Bullet punch like coil Scolipede.
Phase 5
The problem now is fitting all into 4 moves, Rapid spin and Bullet punch are some of the reasons why I chose him in the first place so I can't take them of the set and it would be stupid to not have Earthquake on the third slot, the problem now is choosing between Spikes or Rocks, Rocks are safer as you don't have to put 3 layers in order to do much damage, but Spikes forces more the use of Defog which can grant Thundurus a lovely +2 to his Bolt strikes and hitting spore spammers and some grounded pokemon harder, all around these might be interchangeable as the team building goes. I'm not really set on the EV spread or item so I'll accept suggestions:
Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Spikes/ Stealth Rock
What Thundurus needs more than anything is:
1.Entry hazards support
2.Rapid Spin/Defog support
3.Priority
The pokemon that can fulfill that rule are: Donphan, Gliscor(Lol quick attack), Kabutops, Excadrill, Forretress, Empoleon(If you want to go physical), Keckleon, Mew(of course), Skarmory and Scizor.
Phase 2
The pokemon should also have a resistance to Stealth rocks to minimize the damage taken by Stealth rocks when it enters to clean the field, a resistance to Ice would also be appreciated but the rock resist is more important reducing the list to: Donphan and Excadril, while the other pokemon are still viable choices, Gliscor doesn't have good priority, Kabutops is frail even if Thundurus covers its weaknesses rather well, Empoleon and Kecleon is rather easy to see why, Mew doesn't have a appreciated typing, Skarmory doesn't cover weaknesses or gets weaknesses covered, and scizor doesn't like having to waste a moveslot in sticky web and another in defog even if it is the most offensive of them all. I'll keep Forretress on the run because all entry hazards+Heal order+ rapid spin+ bullet punch can do work.
Phase 3
Between Donphan, Excadrill and Forretress we have to see what we want, Donphan and Forretress are walls while Excadrill is a attacker, priority is one of the things I wanted because of the lack of priority on Thundurus is bad making him struggle against priority users, having priority also gives them a way to finish what Thundurus didn't end, and this is where my struggle to choose begins Foretress is bulky, has all entry hazards and has recovery , Excadrill has 2 types of entry hazards, amazing attack being the best revenge killer and the best speed but doesn't have the right bulk, and donphan has the attack but unSTAB priority, 2 entry hazards and good bulk but lack of recovery, so I decided to cut Donphan because while his priority helped him against dragons it was unstab with only 40bp and while bulky he didn't have recovery to help withstand many blows.
Phase 4
Excadrill and Forretress have both many important features besides those mentioned above, Excadrill also has better speed and 4x resistance to rock and fantastic HP, Forretress has overcoat to take care of many spore spammers but unfortunately misses the cut because it is still set up fodder and can't do much to pokemon who he cant Toxic or finish of with Bullet punch like coil Scolipede.
Phase 5
The problem now is fitting all into 4 moves, Rapid spin and Bullet punch are some of the reasons why I chose him in the first place so I can't take them of the set and it would be stupid to not have Earthquake on the third slot, the problem now is choosing between Spikes or Rocks, Rocks are safer as you don't have to put 3 layers in order to do much damage, but Spikes forces more the use of Defog which can grant Thundurus a lovely +2 to his Bolt strikes and hitting spore spammers and some grounded pokemon harder, all around these might be interchangeable as the team building goes. I'm not really set on the EV spread or item so I'll accept suggestions:
Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Spikes/ Stealth Rock
As we didn't get as much discussion as usual, I decided to bring in (a bit farfetch'd) set.
Krookodile @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Def / 8 Atk / 248 Spd
Impish Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Earthquake / Knock Off
- Parting Shot
While certainly not the best Pokemon in STAB-Mons, this Krookodile is actually surprisingly good as a lead. It runs enough Base Speed to outrun Mamoswine (I heard this was Mamo's tier) but if not necessary you can change it to anything you like. Physical bulk is buffed as much as possible so it can easily take most physical attacks after an intimidate including some of Shell Smashers. I chose Stealth Rock over Spikes as Spikes takes too long to setup and you don't get that much breathing space in this Metagame. Finally I chose Earthquake for a strong STAB, but Knock Off is usable too. I didn't choose Knock Off as it reduces Thundurus' Knock Off which could be bad at times. Parting Shot is there for momentum, easy switches and scouting. It'd also be something fun to test as it's a new thought and it works quite well with Thundurus both offensively and defensively (Earthquake has good coverage with Thundy's moves and it absorbs Rock moves for Thundy)
Now voting is closed
Vote for:
DineshThePoet 's Transform Chansey
FearRattata 's Troll Espeon
Ranger Mike 's Support Tyranitar
The Eevee General 's Support Quagsire
Dark Mage Ewan 's Support Excadrill
Snaquaza 's Support Krookodile
May the best win, btw some more discussion wouldn't hurt, feel free to comment on eachothers mons!
Krookodile @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Def / 8 Atk / 248 Spd
Impish Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Earthquake / Knock Off
- Parting Shot
While certainly not the best Pokemon in STAB-Mons, this Krookodile is actually surprisingly good as a lead. It runs enough Base Speed to outrun Mamoswine (I heard this was Mamo's tier) but if not necessary you can change it to anything you like. Physical bulk is buffed as much as possible so it can easily take most physical attacks after an intimidate including some of Shell Smashers. I chose Stealth Rock over Spikes as Spikes takes too long to setup and you don't get that much breathing space in this Metagame. Finally I chose Earthquake for a strong STAB, but Knock Off is usable too. I didn't choose Knock Off as it reduces Thundurus' Knock Off which could be bad at times. Parting Shot is there for momentum, easy switches and scouting. It'd also be something fun to test as it's a new thought and it works quite well with Thundurus both offensively and defensively (Earthquake has good coverage with Thundy's moves and it absorbs Rock moves for Thundy)
Now voting is closed
Vote for:
DineshThePoet 's Transform Chansey
FearRattata 's Troll Espeon
Ranger Mike 's Support Tyranitar
The Eevee General 's Support Quagsire
Dark Mage Ewan 's Support Excadrill
Snaquaza 's Support Krookodile
May the best win, btw some more discussion wouldn't hurt, feel free to comment on eachothers mons!
Supporting Quagsire gets my vote because it is a perfect choice for sponging hits Thundurus doesn't want to take, setting up spikes that Thundurus needs either to force defogs and get a boost or to weaken foes so that Thundurus can finish off, the only thing it really misses when it comes to it is a way to put rocks off the field and our next team member can fufil that role. And because voting in myself makes me look like a (BAN ME PLEASE).
ttar :>
AWailOfATail
viva la darmz
Quagsire