NU and Beyond

[Shroomisaur]

NFEs with Eviolite are perfectly viable Pokemon. Not to mention they are forced to use Eviolite instead of other items such as Leftovers, Life Orb, and Choice items.

And besides, as long as Eviolite is allowed in Little Cup, there's going to be strong resistance to banning Eviolite in NU.

Exactly this. There is no reason to ban Eviolite just because it makes many NFE's viable. And it does make them highly predictable, because they must run Eviolite or suffer from horrible stats.

I personally would love to see a new tier, and I think it is necessary. This is because there are so many more viable Pokemon in this generation, due to dream world abilities, Eviolite, and the new pokemon. It would be great to see an exciting new metagame develop this generation.

 

[Mysterious Trainer]

Creating a "split" outside of a tier ridiculous. NU has and always will be the most diverse tier, and what's wrong with that? Over-complicating things by adding a 'UU-NU BL' is much worse than having 200+ Pokémon in a single tier.

We should try and stay away from Pokémon Online's tiering system as much as possible. To date they recognize 16 tiers, of which roughly 5 are commonly played. Simple is best, and there's nothing simple about 16 tiers. Keeping things simple is one of Smogon's golden principals. Unarguably Smogon's authority was at it's peak in the advents of the 4th Generation, and only recently has it lost ground. I feel this is because people have decided to question the old system, a system which worked perfectly fine before.

What if come 9 years from now there is an 8th Generation? Will we have to make a 'lower' tier each time? I don't think it should even be considered, I think variety is what makes competitive Pokémon an exciting meta-game. Mainly it's a bad idea because in order to sort out each tier and establish balance, it would take years, when it's already taking long enough to establish the 2 full, recognized tiers. But what do I know?

 

[133k]

Creating a "split" outside of a tier ridiculous. NU has and always will be the most diverse tier, and what's wrong with that? Over-complicating things by adding a 'UU-NU BL' is much worse than having 200+ Pokémon in a single tier.

The problem with that is that there will be certain things that are "over-centralizing"/over powering for the NU tier. The point of the NU tier split would be so more things have potential to shine. It'd be like if Ubers didn't exist; there wouldn't be much to effectively use from what was formerly the OU tier.

Granted, there will always be stars and sparkles in each tier, but it still increases diversity a bit.

 

[Gerard]

Why is it bad to actually create a Forth (and with NFE fifth) tiers, I personally play Everything-but-OU (UU and doubles/triples here, but Monotype, LU, UU, etc... in PO) and i know there are many people that do the same thing, not liking the main metagame is not a reason to not enjoy the sides metas, i don't want to have 20 metas, but good 5-6 tiers where you could use the pokes you want (ok, maybe magikarp and Metapod will never see use outside of troll teams) and create a n enormous amount of variety while keeping the broken stuff out

That's why i think: OU > UU > RU/LU > NU wit BL list in between tiers (and Ubers)

 

[The Pokemon Pimp]

I think the intelligent decision as of now is to wait on this. The metagame is still new and fresh, and usage is still going to change around a ton as new sets are discovered and all of that. Also, these tiers' successes are entirely based on fanbase...the last thing the Smogon higher-ups would want is to add this complex new tier system, only to have people sticking to two, maybe three tiers anyway.

I feel that last generation's system was ideal: Ubers, OU, BL, UU, and NU. Make BL a legitimate tier for the stuff in between after a while, and five tiers allows for plenty of diversity. However, this tier system would be best after a certain time, and so nothing should be immediately added this soon into the new metagame.

 

[khz]

If we took UU as the next 50 Pokemon, heres what it would look like:

Possibly Tier Below UU

 APR 2011 BW OU USAGE
  Total Battles: 299644
  + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + 
  | Rank | Pokemon         | Usage  | Percent | 
  + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + 
  | 104  | Crobat          |   7166 |  1.1958 | 
  | 105  | Escavalier      |   7047 |  1.1759 | 
  | 106  | Xatu            |   7040 |  1.1747 | 
  | 107  | Ludicolo        |   6946 |  1.1590 | 
  | 108  | Gallade         |   6859 |  1.1445 | 
  | 109  | Krookodile      |   6848 |  1.1427 | 
  | 110  | Archeops        |   6837 |  1.1409 | 
  | 111  | Raikou          |   6762 |  1.1283 | 
  | 112  | Accelgor        |   6690 |  1.1163 | 
  | 113  | Alakazam        |   6679 |  1.1145 | 
  | 114  | Tangrowth       |   6369 |  1.0628 | 
  | 115  | Exeggutor       |   6314 |  1.0536 | 
  | 116  | Froslass        |   6288 |  1.0492 | 
  | 117  | Blastoise       |   6036 |  1.0072 | 
  | 118  | Dugtrio         |   6025 |  1.0054 | 
  | 119  | Weezing         |   5703 |  0.9516 | 
  | 120  | Yanmega         |   5660 |  0.9445 | 
  | 121  | Sharpedo        |   5555 |  0.9269 | 
  | 122  | Porygon-Z       |   5334 |  0.8901 | 
  | 123  | Rhyperior       |   5210 |  0.8694 | 
  | 124  | Rotom-H         |   5207 |  0.8689 | 
  | 125  | Sceptile        |   5107 |  0.8522 | 
  | 126  | Lilligant       |   4902 |  0.8180 | 
  | 127  | Deoxys-D        |   4793 |  0.7998 | 
  | 128  | Mandibuzz       |   4628 |  0.7722 | 
  | 129  | Honchkrow       |   4604 |  0.7682 | 
  | 130  | Staraptor       |   4578 |  0.7639 | 
  | 131  | Claydol         |   4348 |  0.7255 | 
  | 132  | Carracosta      |   4330 |  0.7225 | 
  | 133  | Clefable        |   4330 |  0.7225 | 
  | 134  | Shuckle         |   4327 |  0.7220 | 
  | 135  | Golurk          |   4326 |  0.7219 | 
  | 136  | Crustle         |   4220 |  0.7042 | 
  | 137  | Uxie            |   4174 |  0.6965 | 
  | 138  | Venomoth        |   4092 |  0.6828 | 
  | 139  | Scolipede       |   4021 |  0.6710 | 
  | 140  | Cradily         |   3903 |  0.6513 | 
  | 141  | Wobbuffet       |   3879 |  0.6473 | 
  | 142  | Lapras          |   3785 |  0.6316 | 
  | 143  | Walrein         |   3724 |  0.6214 | 
  | 144  | Gardevoir       |   3683 |  0.6146 | 
  | 145  | Houndoom        |   3582 |  0.5977 | 
  | 146  | Absol           |   3493 |  0.5829 | 
  | 147  | Drapion         |   3420 |  0.5707 | 
  | 148  | Aron            |   3391 |  0.5658 | 
  | 149  | Mismagius       |   3329 |  0.5555 | 
  | 150  | Leafeon         |   3300 |  0.5507 | 
  | 151  | Lanturn         |   3253 |  0.5428 | 
  | 152  | Nidoqueen       |   3117 |  0.5201 | 
  | 153  | Scyther         |   2990 |  0.4989 | 
  | 154  | Durant          |   2970 |  0.4956 | 
  | 155  | Swellow         |   2880 |  0.4806 | 
  | 156  | Slowking        |   2776 |  0.4632 | 
  | 157  | Serperior       |   2722 |  0.4542 | 
  | 158  | Stoutland       |   2702 |  0.4509 | 
  | 159  | Golduck         |   2695 |  0.4497 | 
  | 160  | Aggron          |   2622 |  0.4375 | 
  | 161  | Cobalion        |   2621 |  0.4374 | 
  | 162  | Typhlosion      |   2596 |  0.4332 | 
  | 163  | Probopass       |   2568 |  0.4285 | 
  | 164  | Shiftry         |   2514 |  0.4195 | 
  | 165  | Omastar         |   2472 |  0.4125 | 
  | 166  | Braviary        |   2445 |  0.4080 | 
  | 167  | Kabutops        |   2444 |  0.4078 | 
  | 168  | Tangela         |   2430 |  0.4055 | 
  | 169  | Parasect        |   2418 |  0.4035 | 
  | 170  | Gigalith        |   2414 |  0.4028 | 
  | 171  | Magmortar       |   2367 |  0.3950 | 
  | 172  | Jumpluff        |   2328 |  0.3885 | 
  | 173  | Rotom-C         |   2245 |  0.3746 | 
  | 174  | Feraligatr      |   2219 |  0.3703 | 
  | 175  | Steelix         |   2207 |  0.3683 | 
  | 176  | Emboar          |   2203 |  0.3676 | 
  | 177  | Manectric       |   2180 |  0.3638 | 
  | 178  | Marowak         |   2175 |  0.3629 | 
  | 179  | Samurott        |   2157 |  0.3599 | 
  | 180  | Registeel       |   2119 |  0.3536 | 
  | 181  | Medicham        |   2044 |  0.3411 | 
  | 182  | Miltank         |   2032 |  0.3391 | 
  | 183  | Drifblim        |   2030 |  0.3387 | 
  | 184  | Hariyama        |   2028 |  0.3384 | 
  | 185  | Shedinja        |   1958 |  0.3267 | 
  | 186  | Altaria         |   1929 |  0.3219 | 
  | 187  | Slaking         |   1927 |  0.3215 | 
  | 188  | Poliwrath       |   1925 |  0.3212 | 
  | 189  | Torterra        |   1918 |  0.3200 | 
  | 190  | Alomomola       |   1876 |  0.3130 | 
  | 191  | Bouffalant      |   1876 |  0.3130 | 
  | 192  | Druddigon       |   1864 |  0.3110 | 
  | 193  | Pikachu         |   1824 |  0.3044 | 
  | 194  | Gligar          |   1808 |  0.3017 | 
  | 195  | Regirock        |   1779 |  0.2969 | 
  | 196  | Murkrow         |   1764 |  0.2943 | 
  | 197  | Cinccino        |   1763 |  0.2942 | 
  | 198  | Glaceon         |   1665 |  0.2778 | 
  | 199  | Hitmonlee       |   1645 |  0.2745 | 
  | 200  | Lickilicky      |   1625 |  0.2712 | 
  | 201  | Ursaring        |   1615 |  0.2695 | 
  | 202  | Octillery       |   1607 |  0.2682 | 
  | 203  | Butterfree      |   1589 |  0.2651 | 
  | 204  | Solrock         |   1504 |  0.2510 | 
  | 205  | Rhydon          |   1489 |  0.2485 | 
  | 206  | Rampardos       |   1482 |  0.2473 | 
  | 207  | Tauros          |   1471 |  0.2455 | 
  | 208  | Cryogonal       |   1464 |  0.2443 | 
  | 209  | Magneton        |   1434 |  0.2393 | 
  | 210  | Hitmonchan      |   1367 |  0.2281 | 
  | 211  | Cacturne        |   1350 |  0.2253 | 
  | 212  | Luxray          |   1346 |  0.2246 | 
  | 213  | Mr. Mime        |   1346 |  0.2246 | 
  | 214  | Blaziken        |   1340 |  0.2236 | 
  | 215  | Musharna        |   1333 |  0.2224 | 
  | 216  | Victreebel      |   1324 |  0.2209 | 
  | 217  | Crawdaunt       |   1254 |  0.2092 | 
  | 218  | Sandslash       |   1241 |  0.2071 | 
  | 219  | Moltres         |   1239 |  0.2067 | 
  | 220  | Primeape        |   1237 |  0.2064 | 
  | 221  | Floatzel        |   1223 |  0.2041 | 
  | 222  | Amoonguss       |   1207 |  0.2014 | 
  | 223  | Ampharos        |   1201 |  0.2004 | 
  | 224  | Flareon         |   1174 |  0.1959 | 
  | 225  | Huntail         |   1163 |  0.1941 | 
  | 226  | Sawk            |   1161 |  0.1937 | 
  | 227  | Meganium        |   1147 |  0.1914 | 
  | 228  | Rapidash        |   1146 |  0.1912 | 
  | 229  | Electrode       |   1054 |  0.1759 | 
  | 230  | Throh           |   1050 |  0.1752 | 
  | 231  | Armaldo         |   1047 |  0.1747 | 
  | 232  | Vileplume       |   1027 |  0.1714 | 
  | 233  | Raichu          |   1024 |  0.1709 | 
  | 234  | Mesprit         |   1023 |  0.1707 | 
  | 235  | Vanilluxe       |    984 |  0.1642 | 
  | 236  | Muk             |    954 |  0.1592 | 
  | 237  | Torkoal         |    940 |  0.1569 | 
  | 238  | Regice          |    937 |  0.1564 | 
  | 239  | Rotom           |    931 |  0.1554 | 
  | 240  | Persian         |    920 |  0.1535 | 
  | 241  | Leavanny        |    918 |  0.1532 | 
  | 242  | Entei           |    905 |  0.1510 | 
  | 243  | Qwilfish        |    878 |  0.1465 | 
  | 244  | Cottonee        |    865 |  0.1443 | 
  | 245  | Tropius         |    865 |  0.1443 | 
  | 246  | Golem           |    853 |  0.1423 | 
  | 247  | Kingler         |    845 |  0.1410 | 
  | 248  | Emolga          |    830 |  0.1385 | 
  | 249  | Kangaskhan      |    819 |  0.1367 | 
  | 250  | Garbodor        |    781 |  0.1303 | 
  | 251  | Seismitoad      |    777 |  0.1297 | 
  | 252  | Mantine         |    742 |  0.1238 | 
  | 253  | Klinklang       |    737 |  0.1230 | 
  | 254  | Lopunny         |    735 |  0.1226 | 
  | 255  | Camerupt        |    724 |  0.1208 | 
  | 256  | Stunfisk        |    652 |  0.1088 | 
  | 257  | Pinsir          |    640 |  0.1068 | 
  | 258  | Sableye         |    635 |  0.1060 | 
  | 259  | Zebstrika       |    625 |  0.1043 | 
  | 260  | Whiscash        |    623 |  0.1040 | 
  | 261  | Combusken       |    622 |  0.1038 | 
  | 262  | Bastiodon       |    619 |  0.1033 | 
  | 263  | Rotom-S         |    607 |  0.1013 | 
  | 264  | Articuno        |    604 |  0.1008 | 
  | 265  | Rotom-F         |    600 |  0.1001 | 
  | 266  | Basculin        |    593 |  0.0990 | 
  | 267  | Zangoose        |    577 |  0.0963 | 
  | 268  | Wailord         |    563 |  0.0939 | 
  | 269  | Bibarel         |    524 |  0.0874 | 
  | 270  | Audino          |    513 |  0.0856 | 
  | 271  | Jynx            |    506 |  0.0844 | 
  | 272  | Golbat          |    501 |  0.0836 | 
  | 273  | Hippopotas      |    498 |  0.0831 | 
  | 274  | Banette         |    491 |  0.0819 | 
  | 275  | Arbok           |    482 |  0.0804 | 
  | 276  | Relicanth       |    482 |  0.0804 | 
  | 277  | Regigigas       |    475 |  0.0793 | 
  | 278  | Pidgeot         |    462 |  0.0771 | 
  | 279  | Gothitelle      |    455 |  0.0759 | 
  | 280  | Rattata         |    420 |  0.0701 | 
  | 281  | Dodrio          |    416 |  0.0694 | 
  | 282  | Hypno           |    412 |  0.0687 | 
  | 283  | Lunatone        |    407 |  0.0679 | 
  | 284  | Beartic         |    389 |  0.0649 | 
  | 285  | Simipour        |    384 |  0.0641 | 
  | 286  | Kecleon         |    381 |  0.0636 | 
  | 287  | Togetic         |    366 |  0.0611 | 
  | 288  | Skuntank        |    356 |  0.0594 | 
  | 289  | Noctowl         |    339 |  0.0566 | 
  | 290  | Seaking         |    320 |  0.0534 | 
  | 291  | Ferroseed       |    309 |  0.0516 | 
  | 292  | Heatmor         |    309 |  0.0516 | 
  | 293  | Liepard         |    308 |  0.0514 | 
  | 294  | Munchlax        |    306 |  0.0511 | 
  | 295  | Pelipper        |    301 |  0.0502 | 
  | 296  | Delibird        |    298 |  0.0497 | 
  | 297  | Dunsparce       |    295 |  0.0492 | 
  | 298  | Fearow          |    290 |  0.0484 | 
  | 299  | Raticate        |    286 |  0.0477 | 
  | 300  | Magcargo        |    285 |  0.0476 | 
  | 301  | Haunter         |    283 |  0.0472 | 
  | 302  | Dewgong         |    273 |  0.0456 | 
  | 303  | Misdreavus      |    269 |  0.0449 | 
  | 304  | Girafarig       |    267 |  0.0446 | 
  | 305  | Mawile          |    263 |  0.0439 | 
  | 306  | Linoone         |    259 |  0.0432 | 
  | 307  | Clamperl        |    258 |  0.0431 | 
  | 308  | Castform        |    255 |  0.0426 | 
  | 309  | Masquerain      |    250 |  0.0417 | 
  | 310  | Electabuzz      |    249 |  0.0415 | 
  | 311  | Vulpix          |    245 |  0.0409 | 
  | 312  | Magikarp        |    234 |  0.0390 | 
  | 313  | Nosepass        |    234 |  0.0390 | 
  | 314  | Beheeyem        |    233 |  0.0389 | 
  | 315  | Swanna          |    232 |  0.0387 | 
  | 316  | Squirtle        |    219 |  0.0365 | 
  | 317  | Swoobat         |    218 |  0.0364 | 
  | 318  | Vespiquen       |    215 |  0.0359 | 
  | 319  | Furret          |    212 |  0.0354 | 
  | 320  | Lairon          |    212 |  0.0354 | 
  | 321  | Onix            |    209 |  0.0349 | 
  | 322  | Unfezant        |    209 |  0.0349 | 
  | 323  | Swalot          |    207 |  0.0345 | 
  | 324  | Wartortle       |    206 |  0.0344 | 
  | 325  | Cherrim         |    204 |  0.0340 | 
  | 326  | Exploud         |    203 |  0.0339 | 
  | 327  | Lickitung       |    203 |  0.0339 | 
  | 328  | Grumpig         |    201 |  0.0335 | 
  | 329  | Granbull        |    198 |  0.0330 | 
  | 330  | Machoke         |    197 |  0.0329 | 
  | 331  | Magmar          |    197 |  0.0329 | 
  | 332  | Shelgon         |    193 |  0.0322 | 
  | 333  | Maractus        |    188 |  0.0314 | 
  | 334  | Simisage        |    187 |  0.0312 | 
  | 335  | Sudowoodo       |    186 |  0.0310 | 
  | 336  | Dragonair       |    185 |  0.0309 | 
  | 337  | Gurdurr         |    182 |  0.0304 | 
  | 338  | Wynaut          |    182 |  0.0304 | 
  | 339  | Piloswine       |    179 |  0.0299 | 
  | 340  | Simisear        |    177 |  0.0295 | 
  | 341  | Seviper         |    176 |  0.0294 | 
  | 342  | Bulbasaur       |    172 |  0.0287 | 
  | 343  | Grovyle         |    170 |  0.0284 | 
  | 344  | Volbeat         |    170 |  0.0284 | 
  | 345  | Purugly         |    169 |  0.0282 | 
  | 346  | Duosion         |    159 |  0.0265 | 
  | 347  | Lumineon        |    158 |  0.0264 | 
  | 348  | Spinda          |    156 |  0.0260 | 
  | 349  | Mightyena       |    145 |  0.0242 | 
  | 350  | Solosis         |    137 |  0.0229 | 
  | 351  | Charmander      |    136 |  0.0227 | 
  | 352  | Clefairy        |    134 |  0.0224 | 
  | 353  | Ditto           |    134 |  0.0224 | 
  | 354  | Bayleef         |    130 |  0.0217 | 
  | 355  | Wigglytuff      |    124 |  0.0207 | 
  | 356  | Metapod         |    119 |  0.0199 | 
  | 357  | Ivysaur         |    117 |  0.0195 | 
  | 358  | Pachirisu       |    117 |  0.0195 | 
  | 359  | Vigoroth        |    117 |  0.0195 | 
  | 360  | Bellossom       |    115 |  0.0192 | 
  | 361  | Beedrill        |    113 |  0.0189 | 
  | 362  | Eevee           |    112 |  0.0187 | 
  | 363  | Sunflora        |    111 |  0.0185 | 
  | 364  | Lampent         |    110 |  0.0184 | 
  | 365  | Delcatty        |    109 |  0.0182 | 
  | 366  | Glalie          |    105 |  0.0175 | 
  | 367  | Roselia         |    104 |  0.0174 | 
  | 368  | Gothorita       |    101 |  0.0169 | 
  | 369  | Gloom           |     99 |  0.0165 | 
  | 370  | Scraggy         |     98 |  0.0164 | 
  | 371  | Slowpoke        |     98 |  0.0164 | 
  | 372  | Carnivine       |     97 |  0.0162 | 
  | 373  | Seadra          |     94 |  0.0157 | 
  | 374  | Stantler        |     93 |  0.0155 | 
  | 375  | Frillish        |     91 |  0.0152 | 
  | 376  | Ariados         |     90 |  0.0150 | 
  | 377  | Snover          |     87 |  0.0145 | 
  | 378  | Graveler        |     85 |  0.0142 | 
  | 379  | Sneasel         |     83 |  0.0138 | 
  | 380  | Watchog         |     78 |  0.0130 | 
  | 381  | Farfetch'd      |     77 |  0.0128 | 
  | 382  | Metang          |     77 |  0.0128 | 
  | 383  | Jigglypuff      |     76 |  0.0127 | 
  | 384  | Ledian          |     74 |  0.0123 | 
  | 385  | Buizel          |     68 |  0.0113 | 
  | 386  | Drilbur         |     68 |  0.0113 | 
  | 387  | Tentacool       |     68 |  0.0113 | 
  | 388  | Whirlipede      |     68 |  0.0113 | 
  | 389  | Mankey          |     66 |  0.0110 | 
  | 390  | Chatot          |     64 |  0.0107 | 
  | 391  | Zweilous        |     64 |  0.0107 | 
  | 392  | Yanma           |     62 |  0.0103 | 
  | 393  | Lileep          |     57 |  0.0095 | 
  | 394  | Magnemite       |     57 |  0.0095 | 
  | 395  | Mudkip          |     57 |  0.0095 | 
  | 396  | Psyduck         |     56 |  0.0093 | 
  | 397  | Corsola         |     55 |  0.0092 | 
  | 398  | Dustox          |     55 |  0.0092 | 
  | 399  | Kadabra         |     55 |  0.0092 | 
  | 400  | Lombre          |     55 |  0.0092 | 
  | 401  | Swinub          |     55 |  0.0092 | 
  | 402  | Chimecho        |     54 |  0.0090 | 
  | 403  | Cleffa          |     54 |  0.0090 | 
  | 404  | Exeggcute       |     54 |  0.0090 | 
  | 405  | Gabite          |     54 |  0.0090 | 
  | 406  | Charmeleon      |     52 |  0.0087 | 
  | 407  | Eelektrik       |     52 |  0.0087 | 
  | 408  | Whismur         |     52 |  0.0087 | 
  | 409  | Koffing         |     50 |  0.0083 | 
  | 410  | Marshtomp       |     49 |  0.0082 | 
  | 411  | Pidgeotto       |     45 |  0.0075 | 
  | 412  | Axew            |     43 |  0.0072 | 
  | 413  | Luvdisc         |     43 |  0.0072 | 
  | 414  | Pupitar         |     42 |  0.0070 | 
  | 415  | Pineco          |     40 |  0.0067 | 
  | 416  | Kakuna          |     39 |  0.0065 | 
  | 417  | Phanpy          |     39 |  0.0065 | 
  | 418  | Piplup          |     38 |  0.0063 | 
  | 419  | Zorua           |     38 |  0.0063 | 
  | 420  | Minun           |     37 |  0.0062 | 
  | 421  | Grotle          |     35 |  0.0058 | 
  | 422  | Vullaby         |     35 |  0.0058 | 
  | 423  | Beautifly       |     34 |  0.0057 | 
  | 424  | Fraxure         |     34 |  0.0057 | 
  | 425  | Mantyke         |     34 |  0.0057 | 
  | 426  | Mothim          |     33 |  0.0055 | 
  | 427  | Taillow         |     32 |  0.0053 | 
  | 428  | Croconaw        |     31 |  0.0052 | 
  | 429  | Shelmet         |     31 |  0.0052 | 
  | 430  | Aipom           |     30 |  0.0050 | 
  | 431  | Riolu           |     30 |  0.0050 | 
  | 432  | Tirtouga        |     30 |  0.0050 | 
  | 433  | Trubbish        |     30 |  0.0050 | 
  | 434  | Unown-!         |     30 |  0.0050 | 
  | 435  | Pidgey          |     29 |  0.0048 | 
  | 436  | Sandshrew       |     29 |  0.0048 | 
  | 437  | Bronzor         |     28 |  0.0047 | 
  | 438  | Meditite        |     28 |  0.0047 | 
  | 439  | Caterpie        |     27 |  0.0045 | 
  | 440  | Croagunk        |     27 |  0.0045 | 
  | 441  | Illumise        |     27 |  0.0045 | 
  | 442  | Glameow         |     26 |  0.0043 | 
  | 443  | Togepi          |     26 |  0.0043 | 
  | 444  | Torchic         |     26 |  0.0043 | 
  | 445  | Voltorb         |     26 |  0.0043 | 
  | 446  | Darumaka        |     25 |  0.0042 | 
  | 447  | Meowth          |     25 |  0.0042 | 
  | 448  | Weedle          |     25 |  0.0042 | 
  | 449  | Gastly          |     24 |  0.0040 | 
  | 450  | Phione          |     24 |  0.0040 | 
  | 451  | Boldore         |     23 |  0.0038 | 
  | 452  | Diglett         |     23 |  0.0038 | 
  | 453  | Treecko         |     23 |  0.0038 | 
  | 454  | Growlithe       |     22 |  0.0037 | 
  | 455  | Houndour        |     22 |  0.0037 | 
  | 456  | Mienfoo         |     22 |  0.0037 | 
  | 457  | Patrat          |     22 |  0.0037 | 
  | 458  | Smoochum        |     22 |  0.0037 | 
  | 459  | Abra            |     21 |  0.0035 | 
  | 460  | Herdie          |     21 |  0.0035 | 
  | 461  | Roggenrola      |     21 |  0.0035 | 
  | 462  | Staryu          |     21 |  0.0035 | 
  | 463  | Elekid          |     20 |  0.0033 | 
  | 464  | Lillipup        |     20 |  0.0033 | 
  | 465  | Lotad           |     20 |  0.0033 | 
  | 466  | Starly          |     20 |  0.0033 | 
  | 467  | Wormadam        |     20 |  0.0033 | 
  | 468  | Bidoof          |     19 |  0.0032 | 
  | 469  | Sunkern         |     19 |  0.0032 | 
  | 470  | Tepig           |     19 |  0.0032 | 
  | 471  | Wurmple         |     19 |  0.0032 | 
  | 472  | Chimchar        |     18 |  0.0030 | 
  | 473  | Geodude         |     18 |  0.0030 | 
  | 474  | Goldeen         |     18 |  0.0030 | 
  | 475  | Numel           |     18 |  0.0030 | 
  | 476  | Staravia        |     18 |  0.0030 | 
  | 477  | Dratini         |     16 |  0.0027 | 
  | 478  | Drowzee         |     16 |  0.0027 | 
  | 479  | Feebas          |     16 |  0.0027 | 
  | 480  | Oshawott        |     16 |  0.0027 | 
  | 481  | Plusle          |     16 |  0.0027 | 
  | 482  | Snivy           |     16 |  0.0027 | 
  | 483  | Zubat           |     16 |  0.0027 | 
  | 484  | Cubone          |     15 |  0.0025 | 
  | 485  | Kirlia          |     15 |  0.0025 | 
  | 486  | Panpour         |     15 |  0.0025 | 
  | 487  | Paras           |     15 |  0.0025 | 
  | 488  | Totodile        |     15 |  0.0025 | 
  | 489  | Tyrogue         |     15 |  0.0025 | 
  | 490  | Venonat         |     15 |  0.0025 | 
  | 491  | Wormadam-G      |     15 |  0.0025 | 
  | 492  | Dewott          |     14 |  0.0023 | 
  | 493  | Natu            |     14 |  0.0023 | 
  | 494  | Poochyena       |     14 |  0.0023 | 
  | 495  | Shellos-East    |     14 |  0.0023 | 
  | 496  | Wailmer         |     14 |  0.0023 | 
  | 497  | Larvitar        |     13 |  0.0022 | 
  | 498  | Servine         |     13 |  0.0022 | 
  | 499  | Chinchou        |     12 |  0.0020 | 
  | 500  | Cyndaquil       |     12 |  0.0020 | 
  | 501  | Ducklett        |     12 |  0.0020 | 
  | 502  | Gible           |     12 |  0.0020 | 
  | 503  | Porygon         |     12 |  0.0020 | 
  | 504  | Snorunt         |     12 |  0.0020 | 
  | 505  | Snubbull        |     12 |  0.0020 | 
  | 506  | Ekans           |     11 |  0.0018 | 
  | 507  | Vibrava         |     11 |  0.0018 | 
  | 508  | Cranidos        |     10 |  0.0017 | 
  | 509  | Doduo           |     10 |  0.0017 | 
  | 510  | Ponyta          |     10 |  0.0017 | 
  | 511  | Quilava         |     10 |  0.0017 | 
  | 512  | Shieldon        |     10 |  0.0017 | 
  | 513  | Duskull         |      9 |  0.0015 | 
  | 514  | Flaaffy         |      9 |  0.0015 | 
  | 515  | Palpitoad       |      9 |  0.0015 | 
  | 516  | Poliwhirl       |      9 |  0.0015 | 
  | 517  | Dwebble         |      8 |  0.0013 | 
  | 518  | Foongus         |      8 |  0.0013 | 
  | 519  | Horsea          |      8 |  0.0013 | 
  | 520  | Larvesta        |      8 |  0.0013 | 
  | 521  | Monferno        |      8 |  0.0013 | 
  | 522  | Oddish          |      8 |  0.0013 | 
  | 523  | Pignite         |      8 |  0.0013 | 
  | 524  | Shellder        |      8 |  0.0013 | 
  | 525  | Turtwig         |      8 |  0.0013 | 
  | 526  | Woobat          |      8 |  0.0013 | 
  | 527  | Archen          |      7 |  0.0012 | 
  | 528  | Carvanha        |      7 |  0.0012 | 
  | 529  | Chikorita       |      7 |  0.0012 | 
  | 530  | Hoppip          |      7 |  0.0012 | 
  | 531  | Pichu           |      7 |  0.0012 | 
  | 532  | Sealeo          |      7 |  0.0012 | 
  | 533  | Shinx           |      7 |  0.0012 | 
  | 534  | Swadloon        |      7 |  0.0012 | 
  | 535  | Joltik          |      6 |  0.0010 | 
  | 536  | Kricketune      |      6 |  0.0010 | 
  | 537  | Machop          |      6 |  0.0010 | 
  | 538  | Tranquill       |      6 |  0.0010 | 
  | 539  | Tynamo          |      6 |  0.0010 | 
  | 540  | Unown-U         |      6 |  0.0010 | 
  | 541  | Azurill         |      5 |  0.0008 | 
  | 542  | Beldum          |      5 |  0.0008 | 
  | 543  | Buneary         |      5 |  0.0008 | 
  | 544  | Chingling       |      5 |  0.0008 | 
  | 545  | Igglybuff       |      5 |  0.0008 | 
  | 546  | Minccino        |      5 |  0.0008 | 
  | 547  | Nuzleaf         |      5 |  0.0008 | 
  | 548  | Sandile         |      5 |  0.0008 | 
  | 549  | Stunky          |      5 |  0.0008 | 
  | 550  | Surskit         |      5 |  0.0008 | 
  | 551  | Unown           |      5 |  0.0008 | 
  | 552  | Wormadam-S      |      5 |  0.0008 | 
  | 553  | Klang           |      4 |  0.0007 | 
  | 554  | Krabby          |      4 |  0.0007 | 
  | 555  | Makuhita        |      4 |  0.0007 | 
  | 556  | Munna           |      4 |  0.0007 | 
  | 557  | Pansear         |      4 |  0.0007 | 
  | 558  | Pawniard        |      4 |  0.0007 | 
  | 559  | Pidove          |      4 |  0.0007 | 
  | 560  | Prinplup        |      4 |  0.0007 | 
  | 561  | Teddiursa       |      4 |  0.0007 | 
  | 562  | Budew           |      3 |  0.0005 | 
  | 563  | Combee          |      3 |  0.0005 | 
  | 564  | Corphish        |      3 |  0.0005 | 
  | 565  | Deino           |      3 |  0.0005 | 
  | 566  | Happiny         |      3 |  0.0005 | 
  | 567  | Mime Jr.        |      3 |  0.0005 | 
  | 568  | Ralts           |      3 |  0.0005 | 
  | 569  | Timburr         |      3 |  0.0005 | 
  | 570  | Trapinch        |      3 |  0.0005 | 
  | 571  | Unown-F         |      3 |  0.0005 | 
  | 572  | Venipede        |      3 |  0.0005 | 
  | 573  | Zigzagoon       |      3 |  0.0005 | 
  | 574  | Bonsly          |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 575  | Burmy-S         |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 576  | Cascoon         |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 577  | Cherubi         |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 578  | Elgyem          |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 579  | Kabuto          |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 580  | Klink           |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 581  | Magby           |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 582  | Nidoran-M       |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 583  | Omanyte         |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 584  | Purrloin        |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 585  | Shroomish       |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 586  | Shuppet         |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 587  | Silcoon         |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 588  | Skitty          |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 589  | Spearow         |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 590  | Spoink          |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 591  | Unown-C         |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 592  | Unown-K         |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 593  | Wingull         |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 594  | Yamask          |      2 |  0.0003 | 
  | 595  | Baltoy          |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 596  | Bellsprout      |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 597  | Burmy           |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 598  | Cacnea          |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 599  | Drifloon        |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 600  | Gulpin          |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 601  | Kricketot       |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 602  | Krokorok        |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 603  | Luxio           |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 604  | Nidorina        |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 605  | Nidorino        |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 606  | Nincada         |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 607  | Rhyhorn         |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 608  | Rufflet         |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 609  | Seel            |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 610  | Skiploom        |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 611  | Spinarak        |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 612  | Unown-?         |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 613  | Unown-E         |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 614  | Unown-P         |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 615  | Unown-R         |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 616  | Unown-S         |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  | 617  | Vanillish       |      1 |  0.0002 | 
  + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- +

Not sure how tiers below UU were calculated last gen so this will do for now. Any thoughts initially? (We still have weather, that might change now UU has given a reason to use Vulpix).

 

[More Cowbell]

I'd like to see another tier between UU and NU. There are so many Pokémon viable right now, but at least 80% is outpowered by something else (which is mostly in OU now). An extra tier would give more Pokémon the chance to shine, and actually do good in a tier.

 

[WeezingFTW]

I think a new tier should be added as well, or at least make BL a proper tier. Either take the broken stuff out of UU make a new tier to give more pokes a chance, just like many have said already.

 

[Gerard]

BL is a ban list, making it a real tier would need the creation or a BLBL ban list, just the creation of a underUU tier whould help a lot of pokes viable, and we should need the UU stats (hint: not out yet) to actually think about the new tier, for example: vulpix is rarely used in OU but not in UU,still she's is in a lot of teams in UU, so it woudn't be RU, the same for other pokes

 

[Mysterious Trainer]

The problem with that is that there will be certain things that are "over-centralizing"/over powering for the NU tier. The point of the NU tier split would be so more things have potential to shine. It'd be like if Ubers didn't exist; there wouldn't be much to effectively use from what was formerly the OU tier.

Granted, there will always be stars and sparkles in each tier, but it still increases diversity a bit.

Think of it as having several kiddie pools versus having only a few full-size swimming pools. You're going to have more fun in the full-sized pools. It goes without saying that in each respective tier certain Pokémon will see more usage than others, as you mentioned, but not to the point where any over-centralization can not be amended by suspect testing.

I understand where you and the people that share your point of view are coming from, though. If this were Generation IX, and there were 1000+ Pokémon in existence then I'd have to agree. Seeing as this is not the case however, and with Generation V only 156 new species of Pokémon were introduced, I'm inclined to believe that given this opportunity it will only allow OU and UU to significantly expand.

A large portion of the Unova Pokédex consists of NFEs with no competitive value, anyways. So let there be the strong and the weak. You'll find that creating a new tier is not the answer. The answer lies in starting at the top and working down. Sorting out OU, distinguishing the UU, weeding out the BL, recognizing the NU, and eventually digging up the "OP" NUs. Why change a winning formula when there has yet to be evidence of anything wrong with it?

I feel that Pokémon Online has brainwashed many of you into thinking that we need an in-between tier when we actually don't.

 

[Sprocket]

we should need the UU stats (hint: not out yet) to actually think about the new tier, for example: vulpix is rarely used in OU but not in UU,still she's is in a lot of teams in UU, so it woudn't be RU, the same for other pokes

As i recall, the UU list last generation was based off of UU usage statistics. The top used Pokemon of UU made the UU cutoff, and everything else was NU.

So yeah before we could make a RU list, we would need UU statistics. And to split RU/NU we would then need RU statistics.

So it would be a few months out from now before we had enough statistical data to make tiers below UU.

 

[FrostFire]

Well, I guess what I like about the idea of splitting NU is that, as people have said, it makes more pokemon viable in their respective tier. If NU is huge, then there will be certain pokemon that will never see the light of day, but could be used if we differentiated that tier

Having said that, I still think it's early days and for the moment we should just do things as we've always done them. Once NU is properly up-and running, and we're generally more sorted out, then we can start thinking about potential changes we could make to the tiering system, if they still prove at that point to be necessary.

 

[133k]

1.Think of it as having several kiddie pools versus having only a few full-size swimming pools. You're going to have more fun in the full-sized pools. It goes without saying that in each respective tier certain Pokémon will see more usage than others, as you mentioned, but not to the point where any over-centralization can not be amended by suspect testing.

2.I understand where you and the people that share your point of view are coming from, though. If this were Generation IX, and there were 1000+ Pokémon in existence then I'd have to agree. Seeing as this is not the case however, and with Generation V only 156 new species of Pokémon were introduced, I'm inclined to believe that given this opportunity it will only allow OU and UU to significantly expand.

3.A large portion of the Unova Pokédex consists of NFEs with no competitive value, anyways. So let there be the strong and the weak. You'll find that creating a new tier is not the answer. The answer lies in starting at the top and working down. Sorting out OU, distinguishing the UU, weeding out the BL, recognizing the NU, and eventually digging up the "OP" NUs. Why change a winning formula when there has yet to be evidence of anything wrong with it?

4.I feel that Pokémon Online has brainwashed many of you into thinking that we need an in-between tier when we actually don't.

1. Not if the "big-boy pools" (tiers) are all overcrowded. The point is that we need less pokes in each tier so that there aren't only 70/200 pokes that actually see usage in a tier, but something along the lines of 50/100.

2. OU and UU will indefinitely expand, so NU is almost forced to as well in this generation and in generations to come; the problem is, "too many" pokes in a tier is a subjective opinion; I may see 200-300 in one tier as too many, while you may see 500+ in one tier as overcrowded.

3. The problem with that is simply the sheer amount of time that all of that takes; after about 4 years of DPPt, UU was still one of the most unstable metagames next to Ubers (which isn't a "tier", so to speak, but a banlist); NU wasn't even a thought. Now, as you said, we have at LEAST 160 pokes that are now competitively viable, with all the new pokes plus the advent of Eviolite. It was never a "winning formula" because it was never finished.

4. I don't play PO :P

 

[Mysterious Trainer]

1. Not if the "big-boy pools" (tiers) are all overcrowded. The point is that we need less pokes in each tier so that there aren't only 70/200 pokes that actually see usage in a tier, but something along the lines of 50/100.

2. OU and UU will indefinitely expand, so NU is almost forced to as well in this generation and in generations to come; the problem is, "too many" pokes in a tier is a subjective opinion; I may see 200-300 in one tier as too many, while you may see 500+ in one tier as overcrowded.

3. The problem with that is simply the sheer amount of time that all of that takes; after about 4 years of DPPt, UU was still one of the most unstable metagames next to Ubers (which isn't a "tier", so to speak, but a banlist); NU wasn't even a thought. Now, as you said, we have at LEAST 160 pokes that are now competitively viable, with all the new pokes plus the advent of Eviolite. It was never a "winning formula" because it was never finished.

4. I don't play PO :P

Seeing as the meta-game is ever-evolving and new trends pop up every month I could never expect any tier to reach the state of "perfect balance". I'm also going to have to disagree with you about DPP UU. Post-Heracross It was probably the most stable meta-game in the history of, well, Pokémon.
I'd also like to remind you that no official tier has exceeded 100+ entities, and it's very unlikely to happen come Gen. VI(assuming NU isn't recognized as an official tier by then). I wouldn't be surprised if the Pokémon franchise was long dead before we could ever have enough Pocket Monsters to fill each tier with 500 or more, let alone 200-300.

 

[133k]

Seeing as the meta-game is ever-evolving and new trends pop up every month I could never expect any tier to reach the state of "perfect balance". I'm also going to have to disagree with you about DPP UU. Post-Heracross It was probably the most stable meta-game in the history of, well, Pokémon.
I'd also like to remind you that no official tier has exceeded 100+ entities, and it's very unlikely to happen come Gen. VI. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pokémon franchise was long dead before we could ever have enough Pocket Monsters to fill each tier with 500 or more, let alone 200-300.

Realize that Heacross had only fallen to UU after 4 years. 4 YEARS. That's quite a long time to reach a semi-stable point, and with each generation the process becomes even longer; also, I recall you saying that OU and UU will expand, as will NU. If NU was officialized, it could easily exceed 100. As for my numbers, they were only an example, as we'll be into gen 12 by the time there are 500 pokes in a single tier, but I'm sure you got my point.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

I understand your aruement against spliting the NU tier, but its a simple fact that half those pokemon are just too bad to be played with, wiether its 300 NUs or 1000, only the top 50 or so will be used, now I don't see whats wrong with spliting off those pokemon, to play with a bit more of those top NUs. I don't believe smogon will ever head in a slippery slope direction with crazy amounts of tiers, if we stick to making no more tiers past RU/LU and NU, becuase after that it is ridiculus.

 

[133k]

I understand your aruement against spliting the NU tier, but its a simple fact that hlaf those pokemon are just too bad to be played with, wiether its 300 NUs or 1000, only the top 50 or so will be used, now I don't see whats wrong with spliting off those pokemon, to play with a bit more of those top NUs. I don't believe smogon will ever head in a slippery slope direction with crazy amounts of tiers, if we stick to making no more tiers past RU/LU and NU, becuase after that it is ridiculus.

Amen. That pretty much sums up my point.

 

[Mysterious Trainer]

Realize that Heacross had only fallen to UU after 4 years. 4 YEARS. That's quite a long time to reach a semi-stable point, and with each generation the process becomes even longer; also, I recall you saying that OU and UU will expand, as will NU. If NU was officialized, it could easily exceed 100. As for my numbers, they were only an example, as we'll be into gen 12 by the time there are 500 pokes in a single tier, but I'm sure you got my point.

By "post-heracross" I was referring to the on-and-off times that Heracross was BL, first of all. Also, I'm not saying that with Heracross in the picture UU was completely un-zen. For the most part DPP UU upwards from 2008~ was great. As for the vastness of NU obviously it will reach beyond 100 Pokémon, NU has never decreased and it never will.

I understand your aruement against spliting the NU tier, but its a simple fact that half those pokemon are just too bad to be played with, wiether its 300 NUs or 1000, only the top 50 or so will be used, now I don't see whats wrong with spliting off those pokemon, to play with a bit more of those top NUs. I don't believe smogon will ever head in a slippery slope direction with crazy amounts of tiers, if we stick to making no more tiers past RU/LU and NU, becuase after that it is ridiculus.

"The top 50" is a lot of ground. If you skim off all of the cream NU will only be left with Pokémon like Mothim, Butterfree, Masquerain, Beautifly, Kricketune, Ledian... Yeah, you get it.

 

[Woodchuck]

I originally voted against splitting, but upon further reflection, we should split the NU tier if these conditions are met:

1) The NU tier gets an amount of playing we consider to be popular enough so that it isn't one of the abandoned tiers that gets <1000 battles per month (feel free to suggest a different threshold) that are so abundant in PO.
2) The new tier that we form (LU or whatever, I personally like Rarely Used better :P) also passes that threshold
3) The NU which has basically been replaced by LU/RU continues to maintain a decent amount of usage.

So we should only split and add tiers as long as they're played. If they aren't being played anymore, that is the point where we need to cut down on tiers, and the lowest tiers are most likely going to be the ones being cut. Any argument about viability in different tiers, and how many Pokemon will actually be viable in NU, is irrelevant if the tier isn't even played.

 

[Gerard]

Just to use PO as an example let's see what pokes it has in their LU tier

Hide

# 1 - Gallade (13.12 %)

# 2 - Sharpedo (12.94 %)

# 3 - Nidoqueen (12.52 %)

# 4 - Shaymin (12.32 %)

# 5 - Tornadus (11.53 %)
# 6 -

Virizion (11.23 %)
# 7 -

Rotom-H (8.45 %)
# 8 -

Cobalion (8.26 %)
# 9 -

Durant (8.06 %)
# 10 -

Victini (7.69 %)
# 11 -

Miltank (7.64 %)
# 12 -

Dusknoir (7.48 %)
# 13 -

Sandslash (7.43 %)
# 14 -

Lilligant (7.16 %)
# 15 -

Rotom (7.10 %)
# 16 -

Moltres (6.95 %)
# 17 -

Omastar (6.94 %)
# 18 -

Manectric (6.35 %)
# 19 -

Entei (6.18 %)
# 20 -

Hitmonchan (5.86 %)
# 21 -

Alomomola (5.85 %)
# 22 -

Aerodactyl (5.83 %)
# 23 -

Slowking (5.78 %)
# 24 -

Mandibuzz (5.45 %)
# 25 -

Gastrodon (5.45 %)
# 26 -

Scolipede (5.39 %)
# 27 -

Walrein (5.30 %)
# 28 -

Honchkrow (5.28 %)
# 29 -

Medicham (5.23 %)
# 30 -

Mesprit (5.16 %)
# 31 -

Steelix (4.95 %)
# 32 -

Eelektross (4.84 %)
# 33 -

Magmortar (4.78 %)
# 34 -

Abomasnow (4.67 %)
# 35 -

Escavalier (4.51 %)
# 36 -

Magneton (4.46 %)
# 37 -

Druddigon (4.41 %)
# 38 -

Misdreavus (4.41 %)
# 39 -

Bouffalant (4.35 %)
# 40 -

Clefairy (4.21 %)
# 41 -

Lanturn (4.17 %)
# 42 -

Archeops (3.90 %)
# 43 -

Golurk (3.83 %)
# 44 -

Klinklang (3.74 %)
# 45 -

Torkoal (3.59 %)
# 46 -

Crustle (3.48 %)
# 47 -

Gorebyss (3.48 %)
# 48 -

Accelgor (3.42 %)
# 49 -

Tangela (3.39 %)
# 50 -

Regice (3.38 %)

This doesn't mean this is how it will look like obviously but you can see that there are many viable pokes in it, an under 3.38 (about the cut-off it is done like OU) you still have some great pokes and a lot of eviolite abusers

Hide

# 51 -

Dragonair (3.34 %)
# 52 -

Kabutops (3.29 %)
# 53 -

Cryogonal (3.24 %)
# 54 -

Smeargle (3.21 %)
# 55 -

Vileplume (3.20 %)
# 56 -

Typhlosion (3.16 %)
# 57 -

Golem (3.15 %)
# 58 -

Musharna (3.15 %)
# 59 -

Dugtrio (3.11 %)
# 60 -

Gligar (3.10 %)
# 61 -

Sawk (3.08 %)
# 62 -

Carracosta (3.00 %)
# 63 -

Hypno (2.91 %)
# 64 -

Tangrowth (2.85 %)
# 65 -

Lickilicky (2.79 %)
# 66 -

Ampharos (2.77 %)
# 67 -

Aggron (2.75 %)
# 68 -

Shelgon (2.66 %)
# 69 -

Gurdurr (2.59 %)
# 70 -

Marowak (2.59 %)
# 71 -

Gigalith (2.55 %)
# 72 -

Persian (2.51 %)
# 73 -

Glaceon (2.46 %)
# 74 -

Linoone (2.44 %)
# 75 -

Absol (2.44 %)
# 76 -

Muk (2.43 %)
# 77 -

Flareon (2.39 %)
# 78 -

Serperior (2.38 %)
# 79 -

Tropius (2.29 %)
# 80 -

Stunfisk (2.28 %)
# 81 -

Feraligatr (2.17 %)
# 82 -

Porygon-Z (2.17 %)
# 83 -

Articuno (2.14 %)
# 84 -

Pikachu (2.13 %)
# 85 -

Drifblim (2.07 %)
# 86 -

Dodrio (2.06 %)
# 87 -

Arbok (2.03 %)
# 88 -

Regirock (2.03 %)
# 89 -

Emboar (2.02 %)
# 90 -

Rapidash (1.96 %)
# 91 -

Floatzel (1.94 %)
# 92 -

Emolga (1.93 %)
# 93 -

Kangaskhan (1.89 %)
# 94 -

Primeape (1.87 %)
# 95 -

Butterfree (1.81 %)
# 96 -

Zebstrika (1.80 %)
# 97 -

Umbreon (1.75 %)
# 98 -

Shedinja (1.72 %)
# 99 -

Samurott (1.70 %)
# 100 -

Armaldo (1.65 %)

This would be some of the pokes that would be NU, there are actually good or at least Ok pokes that can do pretty well in NU, under them there's stuff like ludicolo, some rotom forms, ninjask, braviary, poliwrath, hariyama, and woobufet (from Uber to NU) + the eviolite abusers like gligar, ferroseed, murcow, tentacool, the prevos of pseudo-legendaries, etc...

SO you see, there's not a lack of pokes in NU so you have to be stuck with the crappier pokes (and even if, isn't those pokes NU should give a time to shyne)

 

[kaonohiokala]

Some of the posts here are... umm... confusing, so I'll just post my opinions and hope that someone agrees.

I'm hoping for at least three separate metagames with banlists this generation. This being one more since the last two gens, as the number of Pokemon have also increased by a lot.

1st metagame: OU with Ubers as banlist
2nd metagame: UU with BL as banlist
3rd metagame: "LU" with "LL" as banlist
All the rest "metagame": NU

Quite simply, if we make the tier beneath UU into a solid metagame, it can't simply be called "Never-Used," as there would be an "all the rest 'metagame'" beneath it, displaying even further lack of usage. PO apparently calls this tier "Lesser-Used" and its banlist, "BorderLine Lesser-Used." IMO, we could get more creative than that (at least for the borderline thing). We could have LU (Lesser-Used) and LL (Lesser/Lower Line) or as others were saying RU (Rarely-Used) which could go with LL as well (or something else).

 

[TM13IceBeam]

PO's LU notably contains different stuff, and includes some mons in Smogon's OU(Virizion and Tornadus).

 

[kaonohiokala]

PO's LU notably contains different stuff, and includes some mons in Smogon's OU(Virizion and Tornadus).

Not sure why you're bringing this up, but lol.

 

[PokéMontage]

My opinion is simply that we first need to firmly establish NU to see how popular it is. If it's unpopular, then there really isn't a need to go through the trouble of splitting it up. If it does prove to be very popular, only then might it be good to consider turning NU into RU and then make the tier below that the actual NU, with all the bells and whistles like banlists added in as well. We need to remember that effort has to be put into the tiers, and if not a lot of effort is going to be put into NU, then certainly there is going to be even less effort put into an even lower tier, thereby making it pointless to divide things up further.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Ge 5 'NU' would inevitably have to be split. There would probobly be 200+ viable pokemon, counting viable NFE's with Evolite [If it dosen't get banned to stop 'NU' being OU/UU - Lite, which is perfectly possible, as it would defy the purpose of the metagame...]

That was the very same argument used by the anti-NFE group back when people were discussing allowing OU pre-evos in UU/NU.

Some of the posts here are... umm... confusing, so I'll just post my opinions and hope that someone agrees.

I'm hoping for at least three separate metagames with banlists this generation. This being one more since the last two gens, as the number of Pokemon have also increased by a lot.

1st metagame: OU with Ubers as banlist
2nd metagame: UU with BL as banlist
3rd metagame: "LU" with "LL" as banlist
All the rest "metagame": NU

Quite simply, if we make the tier beneath UU into a solid metagame, it can't simply be called "Never-Used," as there would be an "all the rest 'metagame'" beneath it, displaying even further lack of usage. PO apparently calls this tier "Lesser-Used" and its banlist, "BorderLine Lesser-Used." IMO, we could get more creative than that (at least for the borderline thing). We could have LU (Lesser-Used) and LL (Lesser/Lower Line) or as others were saying RU (Rarely-Used) which could go with LL as well (or something else).

I like this "all the rest" metagame idea; it would make it the exact opposite of Ubers.