np: ORAS UU Stage 3.1 - Sex on Fire [Victini Remains BL]

[AD impish john]

I've been playing some of this UU Suspect and Victini is fun as hell ^_^ I don't know what to say, if it should stay BL or become UU again. (Moves are colored for Type, hope it doesn't bug anyone)

What is Victini?

Victini is a Fire, Psychic pokemon having weakness to Water, Rock, Ground, Ghost, and Dark. Victini has a good movepool with good coverage moves such as Bolt Strike, Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Signal Beam, Dazziling Gleam, Glaciate and etc. Victini's Signature move V-Create has power of 180 and is its strongest move being STAB. Victini having a great movepool as I said could be a physical attacker or a special attacker which is less common.

Is It Broken?

Its hard to say as it has counters to physical Victini such as to Swampert, Alomomola and Rhyperior unless it has Energy Ball being a special attacker. Victini is really unpredictable in what moveset it has. Fire Types such as Darmanitan, Arcanine, and Entei are really the best thing to wall Victini, as it doesn't have coverage moves to counter them.

Also with its choice lock sets it can be a threat to any team. Choice Band can hit heavy damage and with unprepared teams it can get a OHKO easily. My favorite Victini moveset to use, Choice Scarf is a nice cleaner for faster threats such as Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Beedrill, and Mega Sceptile. Did I mention it gets Trick, as using it can foil your opponents plans.

Even though I really want this UU, I think the best choice is to keep it BL. I hope you agree with me with what I said. Have a nice day.

 

[GULLY]

like this plz

 

[Toxigen]

In theese two days of suspect ladder, I see the rise of bulky dragons and waters, such as salamence, tyrantrum and swampert. Due to this fact, I think the best set is LO with V-create-Glaciate-Energy Ball-Zen Headbutt, or even u-turn for momentum. This set checks pretty hard the most reliable counter of the CB set, wich I mention previously.



56 SpA Life Orb Victini Glaciate vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 198-234 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

As you can see, a 2HKO on bulky tyra is simple, and he doesn't lost the incredible phisycal power that he has with V-Create.
But my argument is not only based on the calcs. I mean, Vicini is just amazing in the HO team with sw support, he can clean in the late game easly, or just do a big amount of problems on the opponents team. He can also run an entirly special set, wich gain is unpredictability, wich is the reason why if I get the reqs, I will vote the do not "unban". But let's see, my opinion could change in theese two weeks :)

 

[Cynde]

Well I don't know why you'd Glaciate on the Tyrantrum switch when Victini gets access to focus blast.
56 SpA Life Orb Victini Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tyrantrum: 364-429 (98.9 - 116.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
another thing i don't even know why you included 252 hp in your calc. it's not like that even exists....

So as far as that goes Glaciate doesn't seem that great. Because Glaciate only hits Salamence & Gligar and even then that really isn't a requirement because Psychic with your SpA investment 2hkos fatmence after rocks (generally mixed tini runs more SpA). As far as Gligar goes, i don't really see the need of running Glaciate just for that because there are common enough as well as good teammates for victini that make gligar not that big of a deal to warrant a moveslot just for that. Sure Glaciate may catch fast shit on switchins but the general offensive switch ins to victini would be things like hydreigon which die to focus blast and salamence which doesn't appreciate taking two psychics in the first place.

and you claim that a more physically based mixed tini is the best set which i have to disagree with. A lot of victini's common switch ins are physically defensive. having a more specially offensive oriented victini allows you to pressure a lot of the common switch ins to it such as mamphy / arcanine.

The set that I find to be good on Tini right now is: E-Belt / Life Orb, V-Create / Focus Blast / Psychic / Energy Ball

 

[Kreme]

Well after a few matches on the ladder, I've noticed the main way people are trying to prepare for Victini isn't by having a sure-fire counter (not that there really are any considering all the set possibilities tbh), but instead having a few different Pokemon to be able to scout its moves successfully. People are also, from my experience, running at least 2 Pokemon to be able to take V-Creates, i.e Mega Swampert + Snorlax. Those were mostly the methods I've seen being used by balanced team archetypes, whereas offense usually has checks in abundance. While offense does have many checks, especially Pursuit trappers, whenever Victini gets a free switch-in, the Victini user either gains momentum or just straight up OHKOes something. I've also noticed Victini's bulk being particularly useful at times, surviving a Shadow Sneak from +2 Doublade for example. So far, I'm not really sure where I stand on the Victini test but I'm probably leaning towards not unbanning it at this point.

 

[Freeroamer]

Victini @ Life Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 136 Atk / 120 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Grass Knot
- Psychic

This is the set I've been using on Victini currently, I was using it alongside Mega Sharpedo to function as a lure for bulky Waters that Shark appreciates weakened cos Scald fucking sucks. EVs guarantee a 2HKO on Suicune after rocks with Grass Knot and easily 2HKO Mence and Tyrantrum with Psychic, regardless of whether rocks are up or not. In all honesty, you could probably replace Bolt Strike, I rarely seem to use it except on the occasional Vaporeon and Alomolola which take nothing from Grass Knot but it's not worth using Energy Ball for this when you lose 20 BP and can't damage Cune enough any more. I actually chose a Hasty Nature as while it does open me up to being Pursuit trapped easier, I find Victini's typing caters itself for taking special hits better although you should only really be taking them in a pinch.

As for Victini itself, my issue with it is that it's a very difficult pokemon to justify not using on any team other than dedicated stall and defensive builds, because it simply puts so much work in and pressures almost any team enough to the point where in 90% of the games it's involved in it forces at least a 1 for 1 exchange, and in a lot of games once you've figured the set you could be down a mon or more. I'm leaning towards saying no and keeping Victini BL.

 

[AllAttack]

Although it is a bit early in the suspect, I'll give my point of view

Victini, here we go again. Victini is an absolutely fantastic pokemon; it has extreme power, a great movepool, versatility, good stats, albeit hindered by a pretty bad defensive typing. Because of this amazing movepool, literally nothing can switch in. Between Glaciate, Energy Ball, Thunder, Bolt Strike, Focus Blast and its insane STAB V-Create, and the still powerful Psychic, almost nothing can switch in. A Life Orb set is extremely potent with V-Create, Psychic, Thunder/Bolt Strike, Energy Ball/Focus Blast and it can hit almost anything in the tier. If you try to scout this vast movepool, rest assured Victini will manage to take something out. Victini can comfortably take a neutral hit before drops due to its amazing 100/100/100 bulk for an offensive pokemon, and I find every time this pokemon comes in, the user will gain momentum or take out a member team. Despite being susceptible to Pursuit-trapping, this pokemon is a huge threat to all playstyles. Victini also has a pretty decent speed tier, allowing it to OHKO many pokemon before they even move.

I've tested Victini on a FullTR team, and I find that it becomes an even huger problem to offense. Because of its good attacking stats coupled with very powerful moves, it can easily OHKO the offensive metagame, and it has no surefire counters to stop this. Trick Room also makes Victini able to spam V-Create easily, The reason I'm leaning towards stay banned at the moment, and for the foreseeable future, is that Victini hugely centralizes the meta into finding multiple checks and counters (not like they exist, haha) to deal with this sheer power (see: Mega Camerupt). I feel the metagame is severely limited by the presence of Victini, and it's best for the tier if it isn't unbanned due to this. There is almost no reason to use Victini on a team, since any drawbacks it has are easily compensated for.

tl;dr

• Insane STAB in V-Create
• Fantastic movepool and coverage, probably best in UU
• Great all round stats
• Amazing versatility

 

[Snowy]

Not really all that engage with the UU community and its affairs, but I feel this change is worth me achieving reqs. Since I will be achieving reqs and participating in this suspect, I guess Ill chuck in my initial two cents.

First thing that comes to mind when I think of Victini, is versatility. With insane amounts of coverage moves and evenly distributed stats it has the ability to run multiply effective sets, making it an unpredictable threat for the most part. As we have seen in the past unpredictability is a massive element of what can make a Pokemon deadly, such as Greninja and Landorus-I (Yes I know these are OU suspect examples, but Like I said I am not all that familiar with this communities actions). Whether or not this could contribute to a factor that makes it broken, is a different story and I will have to wait and see till I play the ladder.

Another thing that comes to mind is the lack of counters and general switch ins this thing has, which also relates back to my last statement in how unpredictable it can be. For instances, a lot of people having being using Swampert to handle it, but have been imidiately removed of this Pokemon, due to Energy Ball or Grass Knot varients. Not to say there aren't solid counters like the three Cyndequil. mentioned (Arcanine, Mega Ampharos and Mega Camerupt), its just that the fact is there are so little and that only one out of these 3 has access to reliable recovery, meanin that you can potential wear down these Pokemon, especially with access to momentum in U-Turn. In saying this, it does have its fair share of checks that have the ability to potential silence it, so this is another factor that will needed to be observed while playing the ladder, so I can make a descion I'm happy with.

The final thing that comes to mind is that it might limit the meta (see above for two opinions on why I think this). I believe this to be, as if you are not running one of the counters mentioned or at least two checks (one as a back up) you will get absolutely flogged by this thing (yet again reasons above why and how it can fuck you up). It also forces a lot of switches and puts your oposition in a position of power just from switching it in, forcing you to make a crucial descions. Arguable ithas no real viable set up moves to take advantage of on the switch (unlike Landorus-I), so it really just allows for it to unleash so damage.

In conclusion, I'm currently leaning towards banning it, as it seems to be unhealthy for the meta, but my mind state could very well change with the influence of the ladder and other players opinions.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

itt, victini being banned :[

 

[Teddeh]

So after 25-30 or so games on my journey to getting reqs, i feel like posting my thoughts and opinions on tini in here. :]
So while deciding to build my team, having to use a tini check that wasn't weak to either fire or electric was pretty annoying and limited me to using a bulky mega-swampert which has done extremely well so far. However I also considered the ideas of mega-amph and lanturn as tini checks since they offer me nice resistances, volt switch immunities and aren't completely destroyed by grass knot mixtini.
I also decided to use my own victini since it's an extremely versatile and fun pokemon to use that makes this meta a hell of a lot of fun than the meta previous to this test that became predictable and repetitive in team structure, so I'm glad it gave it a bit of spice to think about when building teams. Mixtini is by far the most effective, running a life orb set with v-create, bolt strike, glaciate and grass knot. I digress.

During my times on the ladder, i've had mixed feelings about this pokemon and it's honestly down to the degree of prep you need for it to make it ineffective in game. There are games where it won't even switch in because there is no point since the best way to break their team is through other methods since they had a huge amount of victini checks; mega-amph, gligar, swampert, hydreigon etc etc. I also felt that as soon as I clicked v-create, yes I fired off a nuke, however it always lost me momentum in the fact that I can 1, be trapped by a krook with pursuit (whether I switch out of not) and 2, be outsped easily the next turn and face someone else's victini or wallbreaker that can put pressure on my team leaving me to believe that it was rather hit and miss. However in certain scenarios against a certain stall core, i managed to severely weaken cores with the combo of grass knot, glaciate, bolt strike allowing me to basically destroy balance cores that weren't prepared for mixtini. All in all I've come to a few conclusions:

Victini is a powerful pokemon yes, however as far as winning a pokemon game is concerned, it's very hit and miss to its effectiveness and can shift momentum to an opponent so quickly that it is actually a hindrance using victini and puts me off the pokemon in general with stab v-creates.

It has a certain limiting factor on the team builder that makes me believe that it is hard to prepare for its many sets, this comes with any top tier threat. However there are some very easy ways to deal with victini such as pursuit krook, honchcrow, mega-aero and even duggy which allows offensive teams to take advantage of this and makes victini a real liability in its effectiveness in the UU metagame. There are also a lot of defensive answers such as swampert, hydreigon and mega-amph which are very good and competitive pokemon that are used a lot anyway. As far as I am concerned, these pokemon are very easy to use on teams and makes victini's life a living hell since it will refuse to click its main stab for the fear of being trapped.

Because these answers to victini are so easy to use on teams, it will naturally harm the effectiveness of this pokemon and would lead me to believe it's not broken even in the hands of a good player. It has a certain degree of opportunity cost that if you use it, you face being pursuit trapped or losing all momentum for your team which allows players to take advantage of this. Whilst its coverage can be devastating and harm a team that isn't prepared for its coverage, It has enough answers offensively and defensively whilst sitting in a speed tier that is outsped by common scarfers to further support my thoughts that it isn't broken. I think it has a degree of centralization, but so does every top tier threat. If you don't prepare for victini, you get destroyed, that's the same with cro-cune or bringing no fighting resists.

Other factors affecting its effectiveness are hazard control since it is extremely vulnerable to stealth rocks and spikes, the speed tier in which it sits in and in general how a set is revealed during a game. It's important to not theorymon victini too much since it can do so many things, but in a game it can only do one thing. If you don't see extreme damage, chances are it's an e-belt or a scarfed set that can't break things like hydreigon. If it's band, you can check it with swampert, gligar and suicune, whilst it's also locked into a move making its effectiveness based on prediction and then a special set is walled by blissey, where it gains new checks for which set it is.

Conclusively for this essay; victini is a very good pokemon and a top tier threat which needs to be prepared for just like any other threat in this tier. I do however feel it has several offensive answers and defensive answers on team structures whilst have a lot of checks dependent on the set. Also, I feel it does have an opportunity cost if you are running its main stab move v-create since it leaves it very vulnerable and makes revenge killing extremely easy as well as shifting momentum in games a pain when using victini and taking advantage of it. Taking all of these things into consideration, I feel we should unban victini as it is something that the tier can deal with and for the reasons posted above, i'm lead to believe it is not broken.

 

[Ranger Mike]

So I've played ~15 games and just wanted to state my current opinion, plus I play virtually no uu so this is unbiased (not saying that any posts here that are noticeably biased):

Victini is a pretty fun pokemon to use, very versatile, great stats, insane movepool, etc. Victini is most definitely a top tier threat if not the best mon in the tier, but I don't think that means that it is broken. Victini Struggles a bit vs. balance/defensive teams due to the bulky waters/Arcanines, and offense has a good amount of offensive checks that can be pivoted in. The main thing that holds Victini from being broken or not super broken, is the fact that it can't just spam V-Create due to things like Mence and Suicune being able to get free turns when Victini has to switch out/die. Of course not all Victinis are choiced and your oppoent can predict, but towards the end of Victini's previous tenure, it was able to spam V-Create with few drawbacks, besides giving Suicune a free turn being the main one. And a mon that I haven't used but sounds cool as a Victini Check is Rock Polish Tyrantrum. Even though it has to run jolly for +speed scarftini, it outspeeds scarftini and can fire of a Head Smash, which we all know does significant damage to most resists.

Also, I feel like people are really jumping the shark in terms of wanting to ban it. It isn't a crazy broken pokemon hence its retest, and the ladder has been up for like a day so far. Just give it more time for people to adapt to Victini, then judge it.

Sorry if my points are awful, like I said I don't play uu but just wanted to post my opinion.

 

[LeoLancaster]

Victini @ Life Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 136 Atk / 120 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Grass Knot
- Psychic

This is the set I've been using on Victini currently, I was using it alongside Mega Sharpedo to function as a lure for bulky Waters that Shark appreciates weakened cos Scald fucking sucks. EVs guarantee a 2HKO on Suicune after rocks with Grass Knot and easily 2HKO Mence and Tyrantrum with Psychic, regardless of whether rocks are up or not. In all honesty, you could probably replace Bolt Strike, I rarely seem to use it except on the occasional Vaporeon and Alomolola which take nothing from Grass Knot but it's not worth using Energy Ball for this when you lose 20 BP and can't damage Cune enough any more. I actually chose a Hasty Nature as while it does open me up to being Pursuit trapped easier, I find Victini's typing caters itself for taking special hits better although you should only really be taking them in a pinch.

As for Victini itself, my issue with it is that it's a very difficult pokemon to justify not using on any team other than dedicated stall and defensive builds, because it simply puts so much work in and pressures almost any team enough to the point where in 90% of the games it's involved in it forces at least a 1 for 1 exchange, and in a lot of games once you've figured the set you could be down a mon or more. I'm leaning towards saying no and keeping Victini BL.

Doesn't a set of V-create / Bolt Strike / Energy Ball / Glaciate with a spread of 240 Atk / 16 SpA do the same, while powering up V-create more? Bolt Strike 2HKOs Suicune and Vaporeon after rocks, allowing you to use Energy Ball to hit Alomomola and Swampert harder (16 SpA EVs guarantee the OHKO after rocks on standard defensive swampert). The loss of SpA EVs means you need Glaciate to 2HKO the Dragons, but seeing as a neutral Psychic is weaker than a single-resisted V-create (barring Intimidate), I don't see the need for a second STAB.

 

[Wish9]

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ raise your Honchkrows ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ

I'll see whether or not people just keep spamming V-create or if they try to adapt at all, but I'll probably be running both Salamence and Tyrantrum on a team regardless. Hyper Offense go go go.

Oh yeah because everyone would TOTALLY be running the same variant of Victini. Seriously though, I'm kinda iffy on whether it should be allowed in UU or not again, on one side Victini is among the most powerful wallbreakers with great coverage, but at the same time, I feel like UU has more mons to deal with it.

 

[feen]

So after laddering with multiple failed alts and finally close to reqs, I'll say the following things about Victini:

It had a massive movepool packed with superpowerful V-Create, 2hkoing anything that don't resist it, and the things that do, gets bopped by grass knot, bolt strike or energy ball. It's versatility makes it so dangerous. Scarf set is a great offensive pivot as well as nuking anything frail by outspeeding while Banded set takes lives. Moreover, Life Orb Mixtini is also dangerous having very few checks. Don't forget expert belt used to bluff choiced items to dismantle the opponent. Also, sub PuP tini can 6-0 if played right and don't forget TR tini which can win lategame.

I believe versatility and movepool is too much for the metagame to handle. Victini has legit no relevant counters. Suicune? Grass knot. Swampert? Grass knot. Snorlax? Focus blast. It has checks and counters depending on its set. It can be compared to Greninja of OU from this point.

So therefore, this is very unhealthy for the meta and I'm definitely voting ban.

 

[Master B8s]

I kinda see victini like mamoswine where it's great wallbreaker, but doesn't have any boosting moves (pup doesn't really seem worth it), so it really destroys balance, and while not dead weight against stall like Mamo, stall can run physically defensive ampharos and can wish pass to keep it healthy in a match. Tini also has good neutral coverage in its stabs (not as godly as Mamo, but still good) so that leaves it two moveslots to give it an easier time with its other checks, like glaciate for dragons and grass knot for bulky waters (namely pert). I feel choice items will not be as favorable as they were in the last victini meta, because locking yourself into v-Create lets gatr get up a boost, and in a lesser degree, Salamance. Heck I'm scared because a locked victini into V-create lets tyrantrum get off a free head smash, and this guy already has virtually no switch in, especially with hippo leaving. Now life orb sets are still good, especially with its coverage, but stall can pivot around its coverage, while Tini wears itself down, and offense force it out after a V-create, or just knowing it isn't scarfed can send in an appropriate mon to handle it. I was pro ban last time victini was banned, and this post was just trying to establish what has changed since it was last in the meta, so I'm trying to keep an open mind about this suspect test.

 

[Lapras!]

The opposing Victini used V-Create!
Cresselia lost 61.2% of its health!

this thing needs to go. It has an option for all of its checks meaning you have to scout to be able to beat it, and scouting can be costly when there is a 180 BP STAB 2hkoing literally anything that doesn't resist it (and many things that can...)
That said my team of 4 Victini Checks + Blissey + Mandibuzz has been working pretty well. Vic is not quite as broken as Mega Bird but it still very unhealthy for this tier and I will be voting ban when the time comes.

 

[TheBulletInMyHead]

wow Victini <3

Okay so is Victini broken? Well, let's take a look at one of its best counters, Swampert

252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 141-167 (35.1 - 41.6%)

So it 3HKOs its best counter with V-create. But it also gets Grass Knot to beat it in one shot in mixed sets, or even fully special if you wanna go that route.

Salamence is in UU though now, that's definitely cool

4 SpA Victini Glaciate vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 228-272 (68.8 - 82.1%)

Oh right. So with coverage, it can beat several of it's main checks/counters. Mega-Ampharos can run defensive sets like they did back in the original victini meta though, so I guess there's that.

So is Victini broken? Probably. Will I vote DO NOT BAN just because I really like the mon? You bet your ass I will.

 

[Astounded]

Pretty sure victini should remain banned. I've thought Victini was one of the worst to deal with for quite a while now, to be honest. This thing barely has any switch ins. It has all of the things an offensive threat needs to posses: strength, movepool, and solid speed.

With Choice band or Life orb being pretty much on every variant, STAB V-create of base 180 Atk is hard to tank, and it has the movepool to take advantage of almost everything outside of salamence and arcanine (to name a few). U-turn provides incredible momentum while hazards are up.

Even with strength, many powerful mons are not broken (I'm looking at you Tyrantrum) as they are lackluster in other aspects, but one of the things that really puts Victini over the top in UU has to be its movepool.

However, a pokemon that is top notch in running various movepool+owns the strength to 2HKO almost everything. I honestly don't think that something like this should be unbanned.

 

[Schpoonman]

wow Victini <3

Okay so is Victini broken? Well, let's take a look at one of its best counters, Swampert

252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 141-167 (35.1 - 41.6%)

So it 3HKOs its best counter with V-create. But it also gets Grass Knot to beat it in one shot in mixed sets, or even fully special if you wanna go that route.

Salamence is in UU though now, that's definitely cool

4 SpA Victini Glaciate vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 228-272 (68.8 - 82.1%)

Oh right. So with coverage, it can beat several of it's main checks/counters. Mega-Ampharos can run defensive sets like they did back in the original victini meta though, so I guess there's that.

So is Victini broken? Probably. Will I vote DO NOT BAN just because I really like the mon? You bet your ass I will.

So I'm sure some of you remember my minor meltdown during the Serperior test because outstanding morons like the poster I've quoted were bringing up absolutely terrible arguments to keep Serperior legal, or straight-up not talking about whether or not Serperior was broken but saying how they'd vote to keep Serperior legal regardless. So I will once again implore Sam and Hikari to please leave the public suspect tests behind and reinstate the Council Vote because this shit is unacceptable.

 

[TheBulletInMyHead]

So I'm sure some of you remember my minor meltdown during the Serperior test because outstanding morons like the poster I've quoted were bringing up absolutely terrible arguments to keep Serperior legal, or straight-up not talking about whether or not Serperior was broken but saying how they'd vote to keep Serperior legal regardless. So I will once again implore Sam and Hikari to please leave the public suspect tests behind and reinstate the Council Vote because this shit is unacceptable.

wow r00d

 

[Godsend]

So I'm sure some of you remember my minor meltdown during the Serperior test because outstanding morons like the poster I've quoted were bringing up absolutely terrible arguments to keep Serperior legal, or straight-up not talking about whether or not Serperior was broken but saying how they'd vote to keep Serperior legal regardless. So I will once again implore Sam and Hikari to please leave the public suspect tests behind and reinstate the Council Vote because this shit is unacceptable.

Dude, attacking people is a dick move. If his arguments are so bad, they'll be easy to refute. You don't have to try and make people feel bad because they have a different opinion or are inexperienced. Peace and love man, hostility is bad for the community.

 

[SaberSeven]

wow Victini <3

Okay so is Victini broken? Well, let's take a look at one of its best counters, Swampert

252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 141-167 (35.1 - 41.6%)

So it 3HKOs its best counter with V-create. But it also gets Grass Knot to beat it in one shot in mixed sets, or even fully special if you wanna go that route.

Salamence is in UU though now, that's definitely cool

4 SpA Victini Glaciate vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 228-272 (68.8 - 82.1%)

Oh right. So with coverage, it can beat several of it's main checks/counters. Mega-Ampharos can run defensive sets like they did back in the original victini meta though, so I guess there's that.

So is Victini broken? Probably. Will I vote DO NOT BAN just because I really like the mon? You bet your ass I will.

Using Leolancaster's revamp of Freeroamer's mixtini set...

16 SpA Life Orb Victini Energy Ball vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 380-447 (94.7 - 111.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

16 SpA Life Orb Victini Glaciate vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 296-354 (89.4 - 106.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

RIP

And with all due respect, it's best that you don't unban a mon from BL just because you like it. Victini is a dangerous mixed bag of tricks and as much as I would like to see it go UU, it's best if it's kept BL.

 

[Nysyr]

As someone who played most of his games during the Victini meta (and didn't use him very often), I'm of the opinion that ORAS has made everyone soft. I actually enjoyed the faster paced meta that had Victini in it because Pink core spam was less used on ladder, and even the fat mons that were used weren't absolutely stally.

Now hear me out on this. Victini himself rarely won games solely by being present on a team. He was never a pokemon that would sweep your team solo; this because of his stealth rock weakness and extreme easyness to trap. What he did extremely well was dent/outright kill things on the opposing team. Did he do this too well? Yeah probably. However against slower teams there are pokemon that will bring just as much pain as Victini. Because of the nature of Victini's typing and V-create, offensive teams and decently fast balance teams with a good pivot rarely would fall to Victini; he was just too easy to revenge and apply counter pressure. I see Victini as the Mega Metagross of UU in this regard.

If it wasn't for the Life Orb set, we literally wouldn't even have looked at Victini most likely. Now in regards to this set, It generally has an extremely limited Life Span. 100/100/100 bulk doesn't do that much for you when you drop your defenses with V-create, take 10% of your HP every attack, and are weak to stealth rock. This set however is definitely broken in the meta as it stands, but that's only because of how the meta is played right now. In an very offensive meta he's good, but doesn't make any more of a splash than other nukes do. UU as it is now just simply relies on pivots that are absolutely merk'd by the LO set; even HO team's have to have a somewhat bulky pivot just to keep the rest of the team healthy to keep above being swept by all the offensive shit that ORAS and XY added.

I would vote No Ban out of personal taste, but I realise my opinion is of the minority.

Also seriously stop holding suspects every time I have midterms/finals OML. Another one I can't participate in.

 

[SocksBrown]

Hi frens :]

I've been using the following Victini set in the suspect:

Victini Set

Victini @ Choice Band
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Zen Headbutt
- U-Turn

Pretty much every bulky water type (Tentacruel is 2HKO'd by V-create, can't kill if Victini is at full health) and bulky Arcanine/Rotom can switch into V-create. (Offensive variants are also 2HKO'd by V-create and also cannot kill from full). A lot of things that resist Victini's V-create are still 2HKO'd by it. Although those things outspeed Victini after V-create, most cannot kill if Victini is at 100% (Victini may only live with ~2%, but it's still alive nonetheless). I also noticed that the bulky waters that can tank a V-create are 2HKO'd (Excluding Swampert who is OHKO'd) by a Giga Drain from Mega Abomasnow.

I've also been thinking about this set for the past hour or so:

Victini Set 2

Victini @ Life Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Sp Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Blue Flare
- Psychic
- Glaciate
- Energy Ball

With this set, it is easier (In my opinion at least) to 2HKO the bulky waters that could have been able to take a V-create. I went for Energy Ball over Grass Knot because they can both 2HKO Suicune (Before Calm Minds, of course), but only Energy Ball has the capability to 2HKO Vaporeon. Energy Ball also does more to Slowking (AV Slowking is 3HKO'd by Energy Ball).

I haven't used Victini enough to be 100% certain of whether I think Victini should stay or go, but it is a huge threat in UU and I do not see it staying.

 

[Wanka]

I have been trying to keep an open mind about tini and in some cases I don't see it being that bad as on occasion with a life orb set I might fail to prevent rocks and vicitni might get one kill or severely weaken one mon and then be at 50% and not be able to do much else. With its exposure to all entry hazards along with potential chip damage from life orb it can be most certainly be dealt with and on some occasions it is chosen as a sack. Other times however it can indeed screw over lots of teams, with its insane coveage it can put in large amounts of work if your opponent slips up even a little bit, it can be detrimental to his/her team.

Still kinda unsure and I think once I start getting higher up I might run into teams built to deal with it better. No doubt this thing is insanely strong but this tier has things for this mon and I do not doubt that, but what I'm noticing is that people are shying away from more balance builds and battlers are more so trying to check all of the offensive threats this tier has with their own offensive threats which is the reason why on some occasions victini is really only getting one kill or maybe not even a kill at times. Passive teams just give it way too many opportunities to do what it does best which is why I can see players who lean towards balance builds lean towards ban while Heavy offense players lean towards no ban as 1. they love its power and 2. Offensively pressuring it with rocks, trapping, and faster threats is a better way to deal with it.

Just for a quick note on the fact that some people think lax isn't a check.

56 SpA Life Orb Victini Focus Blast vs. 144 HP / 176+ SpD Snorlax: 172-203 (34.6 - 40.8%) -- 52% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Focus blast is not an answer to snorlax and focus blast is a wasted moveslot for victini. Life orb V-create does just as much so you might as well just dent it with v create and go to an appropriate check. There is no need to run focus blast and lax still stands as a solid check to vicitni. You might as well just run glaciate or psycic.