NFEs in UU

[TEA_DEMON]

I'm actually kinda surprised Togetic hasn't been mentioned here yet. 55/80/105 defenses is pretty good, it can SubRoost and has the SpA to actually do some damage if necessary.

 

[flashbolt]

Interestingly, It seems gligar now has a newly updated page on smogon's strategy pokedex. Just incase anyone was interested...

 

[chuie]

Yeah I really hope it doesn't get popular. If a good player uses this it'll be so simple to set up and seeing as I don't have any phazers to stop a baton pass and only one pokemon that can actually OHKO Gligar I can see myself getting screwed over pretty easily..

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Gligar is one of the most used Pokemon in NU (other NFEs that are top tier NUs are Haunter and Dusclops, and probably Magneton now), so it is very useful in that metagame. I'm not sure in UU, but I've never used or fought it before.

I didn't realize NFEs (apart from Magneton, Chansey and Scyther, who have all been UU) would be getting strategy pages. I suppose nearly all NFEs are outclassed by their evolutions, but a few of the ones that have OU evolutions aren't really properly outclassed by anything in UU. As far as the UU metagame is concerned, they're fully evolved (but some of them still have extremely pathetic stats).

But, do remember Kakuna has a strategy page...

 

[Garganator]

Again, just like the Mixed Attacking Altaria. If one doesn't care all that much about bulk and simply what Dragonair can do compared to Altaria with this set, Dragonair does everything better offensively. With the same EVs, Dragonair has the same powered Draco Meteor and special attacks, same Speed (Enough to outspeed +55s), but has 3 more Attack. Again, I'm not quite sure what this 3 Attack could achieve, but offensively, Dragonair does things better. Like MixMence, Mixed Altaria is weak to Stealth Rock, meaning it can't just come in and blast something without paying a considerable price. Dragonair isn't SR weak, so it can switch in without worring about it. It also has nice resistances (F/G/W combo, as well as Electric) to come in on (OK, Altaria has it too, and an Ground immunity, but does not resist Electric).

I forgot to mention this. Dragonair has basic 84 attack, Altaria only 70, while also having identical special attack (70 vs 70) which makes him better wall-breaker. 14 points in physical attack makes a difference (like this Raikou example which I posted earlier). Also Dragonair has access to good priority in ExtremeSpeed and having priority, especially in Porygon-Z era is great bonus. Also no SR weakness is great. If I'm not mistaken Shed Skin may also cure your confusion from Outrage, so you may continue it with some luck.

64 EVs Mild Dragonair has attack score 220. Altaria to have the same score needs to invest... 174 EVs in physical attack. If you think outspeeding minimum speed Milotic is enough (and you want to ignore speedy versions) just go with 94 Spe/164 Atk/252 SpA EVs. My earlier spread is for offensive Milotic if you really hate it. It secures OHKO on Raikou (64 EVs has a small chance to miss OHKO with SR up), Chansey doesn't stand a chance. Anyway, it proves again that Dragonair is superior wall-breaker if you compare it to Altaria. Of course if you don't mind loosing that bulk, which Altaria provides and access to Roost. To be honest I think that new spread is more effective then my older one. Your choice I guess which you prefer ;).

I didn't realize NFEs (apart from Magneton, Chansey and Scyther, who have all been UU) would be getting strategy pages. I suppose nearly all NFEs are outclassed by their evolutions, but a few of the ones that have OU evolutions aren't really properly outclassed by anything in UU. As far as the UU metagame is concerned, they're fully evolved (but some of them still have extremely pathetic stats).

Some examples proves that even those ones with mediocore stats aren't that bad. Monferno runs Nasty Plot, which Blaziken can't and still has enough power for his job. Dragonair is another example and it proves how high power of his moves (Outrage, Draco Meteor) makes up for mediocore statistics. Sneasel is also interesting NFE with not great stats and with good niche to abuse. So to be honest those strategy pages for few of them wouldn't surprise me. I'm almost sure Rhydon would also have it, but unfortunately Rhyperior dropped down to UU.

 

[Pratty]

Been testing SD, LO Sneasel out. So far, it's actually been really good, and I don't know if it helps or not, but Life Orb adds a lot of power(For example, Moltres can't revenge you w/ Stealth Rock up).

I've been running Swords Dance/Ice Shard/Bite/Low Kick. I'll probably post some more tomorrow, but right now, it's 5:21 AM and I haven't tested quite enough yet.

 

[Sir Azelf]

Im disappointed by the lack of Golbat lol

Golbat @ Leftovers
EVs: 152 HP/96 Atk/46 Def/216 Spd
Jolly Nature
Trait : Inner Focus
- Taunt
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- U-Turn

Outspeeds + speed base 85's, such as Cress, Toxicroak and what not. This thing beats Venusaur (guaranteed OHKO with SR up with Brave Bird on the SDer) and even revenge kills Blaziken. 329/187/186 defenses isnt THAT bad either.

Basically like a less broken mini Crobat. =P

 

[flashbolt]

@Pratty: I happen to disagree with you, i dont think it has the raw power. missing KOs on walls like cresselia even with a SE hit is nasty. You lose pursuit, which I think is its biggest asset, it is a great revenge killer of rotom, mismagius, froslass and other weakened pokes. Ice Shard helps it as a revenge killer, KOing everything faster than it including swellow.

@Dark: Odd i was just thinking of testing Golbat.

 

[Stagnant]

Golbat was much more effective last metagame. As it could run 176 speed out running venusaur and the like as well as being able to give him some bulk. This time around Cress can switch-in and threated with Psychic anything faster is a likely canidate to threaten to KO as well. The shift in speed tier really made life miserable for Golbat.

 

[Alan]

Lead Hippopotatas (whatever, its late, im tired) works well for sandstorm and such.

Hippo @ leftovers
Whatever nature is (+Def, -SpA)
252HP/200Atk/56Def
Stealth Rock
EQ
Slack Off
Roar

yeah its basically a feeble attempt to replicate its evolution, but seeing as how its the only pokemon that isn't banned from UU/NU that can create a sandstorm, it does a swell job with Sand Veiled enemies and that sorta stuff. It gives aggron some added bulk, for SDef and has a respectable HP/Atk/Def stats for being NFE. Snover is used for the same general purpose. It works well with Gabite.

Dragonair set mentioned in the first post does look promising though. Electabuzz also seems like it could make a somewhat halfway decent replicate of Electivire, its got fairly respectable special attack/def and speed at base 105 is not shabby by any means.

Something like:
Electabuzz @ Life Orb
252SpA/252Spe/4Wherever, doesn't really matter
Thunderbolt
Psychic
Protect
Signal Beam

Just an idea, I might test it tomorrow/when i get around to it.

Phione is also good on a rain dance team because of a Hydration, but I'm sure almost everyone is aware of that right now.

 

[shrang]

Doing some testing on Dragonair, after using it, I must say it is a beast. The Mixed Attacker is about as hard to switch into as Mixmence. With Spikes and Stealth Rock down, he can punch massive holes in a team. It faces about the same problems as Mence as well, meaning that it is hard to switch in, and on top of that, Dragonair is frail as fuck and quite slow. Wish support is pretty much essential, firstly to heal off his Life Orb recoil and secondly to sort of give him a free switch-in, healing off damage that would be quite damaging. I'm using Leafeon (Wish support) and Omastar (SR + Spikes) and Spiritomb alongside him, and he's working pretty well.

 

[mite b cool]

Doing some testing on Dragonair, after using it, I must say it is a beast. The Mixed Attacker is about as hard to switch into as Mixmence. With Spikes and Stealth Rock down, he can punch massive holes in a team. It faces about the same problems as Mence as well, meaning that it is hard to switch in, and on top of that, Dragonair is frail as fuck and quite slow. Wish support is pretty much essential, firstly to heal off his Life Orb recoil and secondly to sort of give him a free switch-in, healing off damage that would be quite damaging. I'm using Leafeon (Wish support) and Omastar (SR + Spikes) and Spiritomb alongside him, and he's working pretty well.

I think I battled you, using the Sneasel lead. Even with only base 70 special attack, STAB Draco meteor with LO still hurts, A LOT. Dragonair didn't do a whole lot in our battle, and its really slow so i think paralysis support could be useful.

Draco Meteor vs Standard 252 HP/ min Slowbro : 66.2% - 77.9% (Followed by Outrage this will KO after SR)
Draco Meteor vs 252 HP/ min Milotic : 45.2% - 53.6%
Draco Meteor vs 244 HP/ 80 Rhyperior : 71.5% - 84.3%
Draco Metoer vs 252 HP/ 56 Umbreon : 38.3% - 45.2% :/
Draco Metoer vs 252 HP/ 4 Cresselia : 39.2% - 46.2%

So things are struggling to switch in without taking a chunk out of their health, obviously against offensive teams without a dragon resist it will be hard to switch into

 

[flashbolt]

Is it me or do those calcs not seem too impressive.
1. im sure slowbro usually carries some SpD Evs in UU
2. All of those except rhyperior can heal up if they are not 2HKOed
3. against an offensive team dragonair is probably too slow and wont be troubling anything, it may not be a problem switching in.
4. It seems like alot of setup, SR and spikes and now some para support is being suggested too. Alot of pokes to sweep with that much support, and alot of them could do it better than dragonair.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Waitwaitwait, how will Hp Rock take out Mantine in 'one hit' when despite Mantine being special defensively more bulkier, an Altaria will always survive in your calculations?

Also, if people wanted a wall breaker, why not just use Blaziken? There is only 1 advantage to using Monferno- it can take on bulky waters better thanks to Nasty Plot and Grass Knot. Now compare this with Blaziken's modest ability to take out bulky waters with a combination of Fire Blast and Superpower or HP Electric with Life Orb, its superior stats other than speed (by 1 base point!), and the ability to also utilize Agility, Swords Dance, Baton Pass and Reversal. Consider also that they have the same counters, and you have a Pokemon that is simply better and can do a lot more.

Oh, I guess there's Encore as well but even Raichu has more bulk and speed to do that job better.

Quoted for truth. Except for Stealth Rock. :P


Monferno
Hasty
252speed 256atk/sp.atk
@Focus Sash

moves that are potentially sweet on a lead: Stealth Rock, Fake-Out, Endeavor, Encore, Taunt, Counter, mach punch, U-Turn, and there are other potentially good moves (that Blaziken also gets).

 

[merlinnerd922]

What do you think of this system:
1) Uber
2) OU
3) BL
4) UU
5) NU
6) LC uber
7) LC OU
8) LC BL
9) LC UU
10) LC NU (e.g. magikarp)

Also, some pokemon without evolutions would do fine in LC.

 

[leonmachar]

has anyone tryied seadra yet? since it works for me as a revenge killer except for cresselia(it should be moved to bl) and fast electrisity like raikou this is the set I use:
Seadra @ choise scarf
ability: poison point
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4hp/252spA/252spe
-Hydro pump
-Dragon pulse
-Flash cannon
-HP (dark 70)

 

[flashbolt]

1. I would rather sniper on seadra.
2. Does flash cannon really add anything to this set? An attack which hits rock and ice supereffective. Water STAB will do better against rock, ice isnt really an important type in UU. PLus steel is an aweful attack to be locked into as lots resists it. I suggest Signal beam to hit Psychics, darks and (pure) grass types harder than your other attacks.
3. If signal beam is doing better than hp dark then you can change this to something more useful. Perhaps hp grass for bulky waters or a hp to hit registeel harder (hp fire would also get venusaur).
4. Seadra gets Ice beam too you know.
5. Nice movepool and agility = an agility set?

It really is a shame seadra isnt part dragon too.

 

[Force Majeure]

has anyone tryied seadra yet? since it works for me as a revenge killer except for cresselia(it should be moved to bl) and fast electrisity like raikou this is the set I use:
Seadra @ choise scarf
ability: poison point
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4hp/252spA/252spe
-Hydro pump
-Dragon pulse
-Flash cannon
-HP (dark 70)

Blech. Choice Scarf isn't too lovely for Seadra; base 85 isn't bad in terms of speed and Seadra isn't powerful enough (base 95 S.Att for those of you playing along at home) to do serious damage. I also question Flash Cannon as Signal Beam is a pretty good move and Seadra is lucky to get it. In terms of Hidden Powers, I'd suggest Grass as it hits Quaggy and other bulky Water-Types harder. So it'd look something like this:

Seadra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sniper
Timid Nature
EVs: 252 S. Attack/252 Speed/6 HP
-Dragon Pulse
-Hydro Pump
-Signal Beam
-HP Grass

I've done some calcs against some bulkier pokes just so we can gauge Specsdra's power.
Ice Beam vs. SD Venusaur (82.8-98%)
HP Grass vs. 148/0 Milotic (41.3% - 48.9%) Ick.
Hydro Pump vs. 252/0 Cresselia (42.6% - 50.2%)
Hydro Pump vs. 252/156 Registeel (37.1% - 44%)
Signal Beam vs. 252/4 Slowbro (60.4% - 71.1%) 2HKO
Hydro Pump vs. Any Donphan: OHKO
Hydro Pump vs. 252/164 Umbreon (40.6% - 48%)

I'm still going to test Specs and Scarf Seadra, but I'm not sure that either will prove particularly effective, especially since Seadra *needs* Hydro Pump to dish out damage. I was also knocking around the idea of a LO Agility Seadra, but I'll test that later.

 

[Alan]

I've done some testing with MixBuzz on my team and Lead Monferno. They are both very decent in UU.

Electabuzz @Expert Belt
Naive Nature
Trait: Static
252Atk/176Spe/80SpA
-Brick Break
-Thunderbolt
-HP Ice (can use Ice Punch if you really want I suppose)
-Psychic

Its rather effective. Its basically a mini-Vire. It outspeeds quite a bit of enemies. This set provides rather good type coverage, being only able to not hit Water/Ground for SE damage. A very effective mixed sweeper. Brick Break was chosen over cross chop because I prefer accuracy and for some reason cross chop has terrible accuracy for me.

I also tested out lead monferno:
Monferno @Focus Sash
252HP/80Atk/176Spe
Trait: Blaze
Jolly Nature
-Fake Out
-Blaze Kick
-Close Combat
-Stealth Rock

It works very well in UU, and imo its better than Ambipom because it gets stabs for super effective damage, but whatever. Fake Out first turn. Stealth Rock next turn. Then use CC or Blaze Kick. This provides enough type coverage over many of the common leads. 252 HP EVs allow it to survive an EQ from a standard lead Registeel, the UU Tank set on smogon's page. I'm not sure about the Speed and Attack EV's, but Blaze kick does enough to do alot of damage and break the sash. Close Combat is for Ambipom, annoying little monkey. I think a Lum Berry might be better to prevent against thunder-waves and sleepers.

Also, dragonair is a beast with the mixed set mentioned above several posts.

 

[Vrolok]

Please explain why you use Psychic and HP Ice over Icepunch on Buzz and how the HP EV's help a lead with sash and how Monferno can possibly beat Ambi.

 

[Alan]

Please explain why you use Psychic and HP Ice over Icepunch on Buzz and how the HP EV's help a lead with sash and how Monferno can possibly beat Ambi.

I said I should probably drop the sash for a lum berry, monferno doesn't beat ambi, but it has STAB moves that can hit for SE, ambi has STAB moves that can't be SE.

Psychic is for venasaur and weezing. and various other poison types.
________
PANIC DISORDERS FORUMS

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Infact, Electabuzz has a higher HP, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense AND Speed than Raichu, and has the same ability, so anybody using Raichu should be careful to ensure it's not outclassed by Electabuzz (i.e, if Raichu isn't using Nasty Plot, Surf, Grass Knot or Encore, Electabuzz would probably be the way to go).

 

[shrang]

Electabuzz @Expert Belt
Naive Nature
Trait: Static
252Atk/176Spe/80SpA
-Brick Break
-Thunderbolt
-HP Ice (can use Ice Punch if you really want I suppose)
-Psychic

Psychic is pretty useless on Electabuzz, especially with that Expert Belt attached. I would replace HP Ice with Ice Punch and Psychic with HP Grass, to at least hit Quagsire and Gastrodon.

 

[PK Gaming]

Infact, Electabuzz has a higher HP, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense AND Speed than Raichu, and has the same ability, so anybody using Raichu should be careful to ensure it's not outclassed by Electabuzz (i.e, if Raichu isn't using Nasty Plot, Surf, Grass Knot or Encore, Electabuzz would probably be the way to go).

Yeah...
Mind keeping that a secret? (XD kidding...)

 

[FlareBlitz]

I've been testing Choice Scarf Monferno in the lead slot lately, and it works well, being able to ohko Ambipom and Froslass while almost always getting rocks up against bulkier leads (or being able to u-turn out). And no, it's not outclassed by Blaziken, due to access to U-turn and Stealth Rock, although I can see Scarf Blaziken work as an effective lead as well. It's also fun to see all these Uxie trick me only to get another Scarf back.