NFEs in UU

shrang

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Just theorymon'd and subsequently tested a pretty fun set, behold!!

Wish DD Shelgon EDIT: This set is illegal theoretically, but Shoddy seems to have ignored it, so have fun =D
Shelgon @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Spe (There's probably a better one out there)
Nature: Adamant
-Wish
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Protect/Fire Fang/Whatever, I really don't care about the filler, you aren't getting past Registeel anytime soon.

Shelgon has pretty good physical defense, so unlike Dragonair, he can actually take a hit or two, at least physically anyway. This set can act as Wish Passer if you really want as well. The idea is to Wish on a physical attacker, then DD up for a sweep, if possible. Note, you are not going to sweep any time if there are Steels out there. Pair him up with Magneton or Dugtrio (Duggy can't kill Steelix for you though) for maximum effect.
 
DD and wish are ilegal with each other, wish is a XD gale of darkness move if i am right, and DD is a egg move he get by breeding.
 

SJCrew

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Shoddy Battle doesn't seem to recognize it as illegal, so it's usable on the ladder. Whether or not it'd be useful is a different matter entirely.
 

shrang

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Hm, it might be. Shoddy isn't recognising it to be illegal, but whatever. I still have two usable sets he can use anyway (Wish support and pure Dragon Dancer)
 
it does with salamence, proving my point, still since shoddy forgot to put ilegal for its pre-evos too feel free to use then.
 

shrang

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Shelgon is working great for me. He pretty much has three viable sets: Wish Passing, DD and RestTalk. The defensive Shelgons can survive stuff like Aggron Head Smash and Roar it out, which is pretty epic.
 

Haunter (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Explosion
- Hypnosis
---
I've been using this Haunter as a partner for Alakazam and it is just amazing. The moves should be self explanatory. He wrecks things with Shadow ball while firing thunderbolts on Moltres and Water types. Hypnosis lets it potentially cripple a pokemon (and comes as a surprise to sucker punch users) while Explosion and the given nature allow Haunter to always OHKO Chansey after SR damage while having a good chance to without.
 
Confirming that Shelgon has potential in UU. It managed to survive a +2 Earthquake from my Sceptile and almost OHKO'd back with an unboosted Outrage. Definitely worth looking into.
 

SJCrew

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Altaria curbstomps Shelgon, tbh, save for the typing. Even then, that's debatable, since Flying brings useful resistances to the table like Fighting and Ground.
 
Altaria curbstomps Shelgon, tbh, save for the typing. Even then, that's debatable, since Flying brings useful resistances to the table like Fighting and Ground.
Umm Flygon doesn't resist Fighting type moves but agreeing that Altaria does really outclass Shelgon in every way
 

shrang

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Altaria needs a Dragon Dance or Life Orb to even considering hitting anything hard. Shelgon can Outrage something without much Attack investment and leave a hefty dent it.

Here's some damage calculations:
Defensive Shelgon:
>_ vs Impish 252 HP / 252 Def Shelgon:
+2 Life Orb Adamant 252 Atk Absol Night Slash: 70.36% - 82.93%
Life Orb Adamant 252 Atk Aggron Head Smash: 66.77% - 79.04%
Life Orb Adamant 252 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake / Stone Edge: 53.29% - 62.87%
+1 Jolly 252 Swellow Facade (140 Base Power): 55.69% - 65.57%

Shelgon can take ridiculous physical attacks like Aggron Head Smash in an emergency and Roar it out. Wish/Protect/Dragon Claw/Roar can be a great supporter to the team, something Altaria wouldn't even think about attempting (Let's see it survive Head Smash or something) and the fact that Wish isn't on Altaria's movelist.

On the hand, offensive Shelgon can do this:
+1 Adamant 252 Atk Life Orb Outrage vs:
Bold 252 HP / 252 Def Milotic: 73.44% - 86.72%
Bold 252 HP / 252 Def Slowbro: 57.87% - 68.02%
Bold / Impish 252 HP / 252 Def Uxie: 57.06% - 67.23%
Impish 252 HP / 228 Def Tangrowth: 52.23% - 61.88%

+1 Adamant 252 Atk Brick Break vs:
Careful 252 HP / 0 Def Registeel: 54.95% - 64.84%
Sassy/Careful 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 43.12% - 50.92% (43.52% to 2HKO with 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers)

Now, I have tried the offensive DD set and it is difficult to work, but give him some Dual Screens and stuff and he will rampage. Altaria will have trouble getting past Milotic or Uxie, Shelgon can steam roll through them.
 
I think poliwhirl is a decent UU choice (or at least NU) because of his 90 Speed and decent movepool.
True that. I used to run something like the following. Worked occasionally.
Poliwhirl @ Leftovers / ???
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -Sp.Atk)

Hypnosis / Encore
Belly Drum
Waterfall
Return / Body Slam

Gives you good coverage, hitting everything besides Shedinja for neutral, I believe. Relatively easy setup once either, a) Hypnosis hits, or b) you Encore a water move from a slower water type, like Milotic or something. Then you Belly Drum up and attempt to sweep.

Body Slam if you prefer paralysis, but you'll probably need the extra damage, since.. well.. you're a Poliwhirl
 
I believe you forgot about Snover and Hippopotas.
Both are NFE and widely used in UU.

SNover @ Leftovers
Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
252HP/4SpA/252SpD
~Leech Seed
~Substitute
~Protect
~Blizzard / Grass Knot

Pretty much walls any non-Fire-type special attacker easily. Lives Raikou SBall, only does 26%.
 
About Shelgon: too bad that the offensive DD is better done by Dragonair.
Though i suppose the support or the bulky DD set can be rather nice.
 

shrang

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Dragonair's speed is really nice for a DD set, but he's just too frail for my liking. Shelgon can at least take some weak physical attacks (Like Aqua Jet) and set up. Dragonair absolutely needs Dual Screens otherwise it will die. Shelgon also gets Brick Break to smack Steels around with, although you'd want them out of the way anyway.I guess it is personal preference, I guess, do you want speed or do you want bulk.
 
Oh, Dragonair can take Aqua Jets too.

Dragonair can come in on any tank and DD once or twice. It has no business against offensive pokes.
Shelgon has Brick Break, Dragonair has Extremespeed. ES is more useful overall (especially when you pair it with Dugtrio to take steel pokes out... or Trapinch, i guess).
ES also means Dragonair isn't dead weight without a DD on it's belt.

Offensive DD Shelgon has merits over DD Dragonair as well: bulk and the edge on power.
 

FlareBlitz

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Note that Dragonair also gets Aqua Tail for Rhyperior and Steelix and useable Special stat for spamming Draco Meteors with mixed sets. Offensively I'd just rather use Dragonair.
 

shrang

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Haunter (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Explosion
- Hypnosis
---
I've been using this Haunter as a partner for Alakazam and it is just amazing. The moves should be self explanatory. He wrecks things with Shadow ball while firing thunderbolts on Moltres and Water types. Hypnosis lets it potentially cripple a pokemon (and comes as a surprise to sucker punch users) while Explosion and the given nature allow Haunter to always OHKO Chansey after SR damage while having a good chance to without.
Just posting to say that this set works very well. It works as a great lure, either luring in Chansey or Registeel. Chansey is blown up on, while Registeel can be put to sleep, or gives you a free switch into something like Rock Polish Torterra or Rhyperior or whatever the hell your Thunder Wave resisting sweeper is (You can also switch into Dugtrio if you're feeling ballsy). With the both of them gone, stuff like Raikou and Moltres can easily sweep.
 
Yeah, it's 95 base speed is often overlooked, but look at it as a pokemon that is faster than Rotom and more powerful, but less bulky. That extra speed is definitely what sets them apart. It ties with Leafeon, Uxie, Houndoom, Arcanine, and Drapion. Only 3 of the 5 commonly run max speed allowing you to beat some to the Hypnosis before they cripple/kill you. With that gone you can continue rampaging with Shadow Balls coming off 115 base special attack. What really separates it from other ghosts, though is its ability to totally remove Chansey from the match as explosion is totally unexpected. I'm surprised this pokemon isn't even used as much as it should be used. Sucker Punchers have a hard time with Hypnosis.
 
This thread reminds me of a similar discussion on TLF, where they wanted to tier every single pokemon... it sounded kinda excessive at the time, but maybe they weren't too far off. Then again who has that kind of time
 

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