While I do have to say that the game was very (very) low ladder and won't necessarily reflect (something, something, wordpun) the team's capability to counteract Kyurem-Black, the replay did show that the team is indeed capable of exerting enough offensive pressure to reliably keep it away from the field and Clefable did show to be a good enough answer to it.
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SM OU First team, I need tips!
- Thread starter CharlyAlei
- Start date
Thanks! I know is very low Ladder, I started weeks ago and that's why I asked for help to build the team, but today I learned how important Clefable is as answer against that beast.
Fun fact: very ironically, focus blast was translated to Spanish as "accurate wave".
I just wanted to say a couple things about the Kyurem Black discussion. First, regular Scizor can be used instead of the mega. But I would suggest banded Scizor in particular is what you would want instead of life orb. It's not as good as the mega, but it does have the advantage of better initial damage on the bullet bunch without setup requirement. So it doesn't require you to setup every time you come in. While it isn't typically OU, I have tested it on several OU teams and it does work in the right team. The set I typically run is Bullet Punch, Superpower, U turn, and Defog. The set can be adjusted.
Whether or not this is right for your particular team? I can't say without testing it. However, I tended to agree with the earlier suggestion of Hawlucha over Scizor for your particular team since it gets the item boost from Tapu Koko's ability. However, I do recognize you changed your team a bit since then so it might not fit anymore. I think you had Rotom W on the replay.
The other thing to keep in mind about Kyurem Black is the type weaknesses it has. While it is bulky, a good attacker with a strong fighting, dragon, fairy, steel, or rock type STAB can potentially 1HKO it. You just have to make sure you outspeed the 95 speed tier, which isn't bad unless it's scarfed. For instance, Hawlucha with unburden can outspeed it either way and OHKO it with High Jump Kick. General offensive pressure can also work. It also hates stealth rock since it is ice type. So stealth rock and offensive pressure can work well for it.
Whether or not this is right for your particular team? I can't say without testing it. However, I tended to agree with the earlier suggestion of Hawlucha over Scizor for your particular team since it gets the item boost from Tapu Koko's ability. However, I do recognize you changed your team a bit since then so it might not fit anymore. I think you had Rotom W on the replay.
The other thing to keep in mind about Kyurem Black is the type weaknesses it has. While it is bulky, a good attacker with a strong fighting, dragon, fairy, steel, or rock type STAB can potentially 1HKO it. You just have to make sure you outspeed the 95 speed tier, which isn't bad unless it's scarfed. For instance, Hawlucha with unburden can outspeed it either way and OHKO it with High Jump Kick. General offensive pressure can also work. It also hates stealth rock since it is ice type. So stealth rock and offensive pressure can work well for it.
Thanks for the contribution!
Banded Scizor was another option I thought about, but at the end I chose banded Weavile for several reasons.
First of all, I wanted to avoid the type repeating (since I already have Heatran as steel) and Weavile grants me psychic inmunity.
Secondly, although Scizor has more attack, Weavile has far more speed.
Finally, her moveset (knock off, icicle crash and pursuit) can beat several Pokémon hard to defeat for M-CharY like M-Lati@s, Landorus-T or Gliscor, and also she has access to ice shard, a priority movement.
I don't doubt about Hawlucha's potential, but I'm not sure if it's worth to have 2 Pokémon in my team vulnerable to electric moves without a ground Pokémon. For now, I will keep improving my game to press offensively just as you recommended.
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My two cents about the matter would be Choice Specs Hydreigon as that also outspeeds positive speed nature Kyurem-Black without being so inherently vulnerable to entry hazards or limited in its type coverage, Weavile gets hard-walled by Toxapex, the hands down most popular defensive glue in the tier right now. It also has access to fire type coverage in Fire Blast/Flamethrower, which severely limits Magearna, something Weavile point in case can't simply do. I overall don't dislike Weavile, it does tick some very specific boxes no other threat does as it is a very good Pursuit trapper that has more reliable ice type coverage than Tyranitar and more speed than it. But this team doesn't inherently benefit from all those strengths, whereas Hydreigon is way easier to fit onto a BO/balance team.
The suggested set:
Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
Thanks for your help, but I definetively don't need another special attacker while having M-CharY and Heatran. Weavile fulfills all the requirements I think the team needs: a fast and strong physical attacker with pursuit and a priority move.
'right then, have a good one!
Oh and can you maybe copy 'n paste me the current version of the team? Would love to try the new version out
Sure! Here it is:'right then, have a good one!
Oh and can you maybe copy 'n paste me the current version of the team? Would love to try the new version out
Charizard (M) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
- Solar Beam
- Roost
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
Heatran (M) @ Firium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
Tangrowth (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake
Clefable (F) @ Light Clay
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Thunder Wave
Weavile (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Pickpocket
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit
Let me know what's your experience with "ma boys" :)
I am convinced that Clefable does really nothing relevant for your team.
I mean... the damn thing has no recovery on your set. It does not provide wosh support, which is something a bulky team often likes to have, and swaps it for some screens HO stuff that doesn't really work in my opinion.
Just imagine what would be like to have wish support for Rotom-W and Heatran. These guys get chipped away all day, and being able to sustain them further is, in my opinion, far more appreciated than just screens. I would remove the screens from the set and put good old Wish/Protect on it.
Furthermore, I think that after these changes the team became more vulnerable than ever to a threat that's way more dangerous and common than Kyurem-B, that being Kartana. You don't have any good means of speed control, and both z-Kartana and Scarftana can murder your team. Just looking at the team, you can see it is pretty weak to Sacred Sword, your only resist being Zard, and Zard-Y doesn't have the best physical defense. But Z-Kart straight up 6-0 you. After an SD, there is nothing you can do to stop thee sweep, depending on the set. Normalium-Z wins. Knock Off wins. Really, I think that a Kartana check is absolutely mandatory. And you lack speed control. Fast threats are huge to you. Mega-Lopunny just clicks buttons and has a clean 2HKO on any member of you team exept Clefable. Even Mega-Diancie is a very difficult mon for your team to revenge. And not much can witsand its blows exept for Tangrowth. What I would do would be to replace Clefable with one of these two:
1) Scarf Protean Greninja
Greninja (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
EVs: 80 Atk / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Gunk Shot
- Rock Slide
This set js designed to OHKO Kartana with an Ice Beam, and can be generally pretty useful to pivot around, revenge Mega-Alakazams, revenge setted up Volcaronas and Zard X and killing fairies. You coukd also decide to run Spikes instead of one of Gunk Shot or Rock Slide.
The other option would change a bit the team in my opinion, cause you would have to use another Electric-type instead of Rotom, which would lead to the fall of Rotom from the team
2) Zapdos+Skarmory
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Defog
Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Roost
This change would be much more defensive, but safer in my opinion. This gives you a safe switch-in to the threats that I listed above, Zapdos checking Kartana, Lopunny and Hawlucha, while Skarmory would cover Mega-Diancie, Mega-Swamper and Landorus-T, even though you would not have any form of speed control besides Weavile's Ice Shard.
I actually changed the set to a more offensive rocker set with Life Orb and Magic Guard and it works wonders, because that frees up one of Heatran's slots.
I strongly disagree. Clefable grants me dragon-type inmunity and her dual screen halves the damage my team recieves, doing them capable of resist hits otherwise they couldn't withstand. On top of that, her thunder wave allow my fast attackers can outspeed almost whatever they throw me.
I have checked the threats you posted with the damage calculator, supposing switch-ins in safe turn:
-Scarftana's knock off (supposing not paralyzed) vs MCharY+reflect= 22.2% max. damage // MCharY's flamethrower= 630.1% min. damage (without sun)
-MCharY's flamethrower vs Z-Kartana +2Atk (paralyzed)= 630.1% min. damage (without sun)
-MLopunny's return (supposing not paralyzed) vs MCharY+reflect= 41.7% max damage // MCharY's focus blast= 115.8% min damage
-Weavile's icicle crash= 83.8% min damage // MDiancie's diamond storm vs Weavile+reflect= 96.4% max damage
In all that cases, Clefable results necessary to the team.
-MCharY's flamethrower vs Hawlucha= 110.5% min. damage (with sun)
-MCHarY's solar beam (with sun) vs MSwampert= 165.3% min damage
-Weavile's ice shard vs scarf Landorus-T= 117.8% min damage
-Weavile's ice shard vs Z-move/suicide lead Landorus-T= 127.8% min damage
-Weavile's icicle crash vs defensive Landorus-T= 182.1% min damage
For now I haven't had problems with Kartanas, Lopunnys nor Diancies. However, I will keep in mind your suggestion if things start going bad. Thank you!
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I am still not convinced. Weavile needs both screens to survive Diamond Storm and Moonblast for example. And if Breakneck Kartana is at +2 against Clefable it will just let the Z rip and get rid of it with little prior damage, since you don't have any recovery.
And Lopunny won't stay in on Zard anyway if it is behind a screen, it will just go out to something like Toxapex.
Would you like to play some games against some of my teams? Just cause I don't have a valid second account for testing. I am really skeptical about that Clef.
Sure! Today I will be busy, but another day we could play.
But I warn you: I am still quite noob xD
Come on, give the man a rest
xD no, it's okay! The more we discuss, the more will improve my team. All suggestions are welcomed in this thread :)Come on, give the man a rest
Ok man
Just let me know when you can