Dragonite

[Adrialberto]

Something I had thought of for last gen (before seeing Multi Sacle or Nattorei) was a Bulky DD with DD, Roost, Dragon Claw and Waterfall, since that way you didn't have to choose between Skarmory/Bronzong or Heatran (Fire Punch or EQ, respectively).
But now with Nattorei in the picture it's not a nice at all, cause that plant is really popular.

What I do think is that Bulky DD will be the best set for Nite to sweep late game, and offensive DD to dodge Ice Shards and Mischeavious Heart status with ES, just like everyone just said.

 

[BurningMan]

Multi scale with roost alongside Toxic Spikes could make for a great strategy for Dragonite. Even with no defensive investment at all, Multi Scale Dragonite takes an average of 50% damage from Vaporeon's Ice Beam at full health, which means after Leftovers, you can easily Roost back to 100% and take only 27% max from the subsequent Ice Beam. Vaporeon will have to Wish eventually, so take that turn to DD up, then continue the cycle. I think Roost Dragonite (definitely with a bit more investment than the example I was using) + Toxic Spikes could turn out to be very effective.

the Problem with trying to stall out moves like ice beam is that you got a big chance getting freezed wich easily ruins you strategy and after taking 5 ice beams you cant call it hax that you get frozen thats more like begging to get frosted.

And Ice Beam is the #1 attack thrown at Dnite (well together with HP Ice, but people tend to send in bulky waters in Dragonite and those carry ice Beam)

 

[Bliss]

so nite become really a beast if you manage a safe Switch-In without losing life. BUt with Stealth Rock or just an random not very effektive move youll lose your ability to survive and kill a Mence or Chomp or Dora, so its still a risk.

Still, this is really impressive, and since theres only one other Dragon with Roost, who isnt nearly as bulky, this could be his niche.

I cant wait to test nite in real Play :)

 

[DragNezone]

so nite become really a beast if you manage a safe Switch-In without losing life. BUt with Stealth Rock or just an random not very effektive move youll lose your ability to survive and kill a Mence or Chomp or Dora, so its still a risk.

Still, this is really impressive, and since theres only one other Dragon with Roost, who isnt nearly as bulky, this could be his niche.

I cant wait to test nite in real Play :)

i was thinking you can pair nite with doryuuzu(ground steel rapid spinner). he can spin away rock easily since most people will expect him to swords dance off the bat and spinners being weaker in general with the #1 spinner in the rotom forms gone. also dnite can come in on ground type attacks thrown at doryuuzu and switch in safely

 

[outrageousdragondancer]

Lead DNite escapes those problems. Screens and Twave make it tough to shut down.
You could make a Rain set with Thunder, Gale, Aqua Jet/Waterfall, and Outrage/Extremespeed. MixRainite uses Gale as STAB to damage things like Nattorei and stuff that would give other dudes on your rain team problems.
It isn't the best in the rain, but it has nice options over Kingdra. Why not include them both? Steels are a problem, but Magnezone likes rain too.
Just some thoughts.

 

[KurashiDragon]

@DragNezone

I think alot of bulky waters will be aiming to check Doryuuzu including #593 Burungeru. Alot of bulky waters like Suicune, Vaporeon and the like would also check Dragonite moderatally well so I don't think it's a good idea to pair Dragonite with something that shares its checks.

@outrageousdragondancer

One of the major problems with the support moves you suggested is the meschevious heart users would (A) Break this thought and (B) Outdo this set.

 

[XxbraedonxX]

i was thinking you can pair nite with doryuuzu(ground steel rapid spinner). he can spin away rock easily since most people will expect him to swords dance off the bat and spinners being weaker in general with the #1 spinner in the rotom forms gone. also dnite can come in on ground type attacks thrown at doryuuzu and switch in safely

This gen has the ultimate new dedicated spinner, which is actually not Doryuuzu. It is Claydol, who learns both Rapid Spin and Trick. While Hitmontop was unique with foresight and rapid spin, this only works for one switch in. Claydol, on the other hand, can trick an Aiming Horn onto the defending poke, eliminating its immunities. in other words, it cant switch in and be a spinblocker again. It never will be again until the match is over

 

[outrageousdragondancer]

Hmm... very true.
ES is too weak to deal with those...
Does anyone know if DNite could possibly 2HKO those wind genies or what?
We could always use blizzard/ice beam...

 

[KurashiDragon]

Unfortunatally, there are no 5th gen damage calcs up yet. To early. However if I had to guess I'd say yes. They're not very bulky. The bulkiest is Randorosu with 89 / 90 / 80.

 

[Dragon Rider]

What are you wanting to use on the genies for a 2HKO?ES/Outrage/Meteor?I can run the calcs if you tell me the moves and possible spreads of attacking Dragonite and the genies.

 

[Donny Mae.]

Guys, I do get where your coming from I really do. Aqua Jet is weaker and is outprioritized by extremespeed but aqua jet does have an advantage in being able to nutreal Steels. As I said in the op extremespeeds problem in dd teams was the fact that it couldn't nutreal steels. The fact is extremespeed has terrible type coverage while aqua jet does not. That's probably why Game Freak decided to put aqua jet as an egg move anyway.

a nve effective Extremespeed hits as hard as a neutral Aqua Jet. The ony you're hitting harder is Aggron and friends. And the candle.

 

[Forsety]

Actually Dragonite could fill a new niche as a nightmare Toxic Spike support, if you can get the Toxic Spikes setup Dragonite could easily run this set.

Dragonite@Leftovers
Multi Scale
Adamant/252HP/4 Def/252 S.def
-Free Fall
-Dragon Tail
-Roost
-Fire Punch

Pretty simple setup, after you catch stuff poisoned on the switch hit them with Free Fall. It gets STAB on Dragonite and also wastes one of your opponents turns adding to the Toxic damage.

If a unfavourable matchup shows up, simply phaze it with Dragon Tail adding more passive damage and roost off the hits. EV's should be geared towards defenses though they're free to be optimized for whatever you fear.

If this is played correctly it can actually be a an absolute pain as poison damage will wrack up twice as fast.

 

[DragNezone]

@DragNezone

I think alot of bulky waters will be aiming to check Doryuuzu including #593 Burungeru. Alot of bulky waters like Suicune, Vaporeon and the like would also check Dragonite moderatally well so I don't think it's a good idea to pair Dragonite with something that shares its checks.

@outrageousdragondancer

One of the major problems with the support moves you suggested is the meschevious heart users would (A) Break this thought and (B) Outdo this set.

yea but doryuuzu has STAB eq and he has SD to raise his attack on the switch in to 810 so i doubt they can really counter him. and say dragonite dragon dances as they switch in offensive cune cant survie a outrage if vappy can he is severly weakened. dunno abt the new ghost. and if dnite is at fully health thts +2 u can acheive as u survive the ice beam. and if this is 2 situational for you thn u can always make sure you have something to check bulky waters

 

[KurashiDragon]

@Donny Mae.

Why are you bringing something up from the first page. We already got past all that. However, I will tell you something new from personal belief. I think aqua jet was (By some chance on troll freaks part) made for rain abuse. Dragonite has gotten alot of new rain tools this gen. True Kingdra would hold it's doninance as a rain abuse dragon but as I said in the op, Dragonite has a better movepool and overall better statistics. I think it can use Aqua Jet to abuse rain.

@DragNezone

I'd say the absolute best choice is to get a bulky water check. Nattorei can resist STAB water and is nutreal to Ice while having good synergy with Dragonite. You think that would work?

 

[DragNezone]

I think dragonite and nattorei r good since dragonite can come in on fire and fighting while he kan come in with his good special defense and take water and ice attacks aswell as rock. power whip hurts waters badly

 

[KurashiDragon]

Still they'd both share a troublesome check / Counter in Machamp. Keep our options open.

Ok after spending some time on Pokemon online I've discovered some things.

1. Dragonite can survive a crit'd stone edge. Bitter sweet cause it was only from a Nidoqueen lol

2. Dragonite is terrible on sandstorm teams. I'll probably make another team soon and place dragonite on there.

Ok Imma update with an update of my time on PO. Now that's it's down I wont be giving anymore but I do have some news.

1. BulkyDD dragonite...... IS FUCKING BEAST WITH MULTI SCALE! While true I didn't use it as much as I could've, (Couldn't resist the lure of Erufuun Illusion'd lead Zoroark and Scarf'd ditto.) I did find that when dragonite actually came in, it saved my ass more than once.

2. Kobaruon is a good partner for Dragonite. It also pulled its own weight in battle. Swords Dance with t-wave was useful.

3. Not really dragonite related but Choice Scarf Erufuun Zoroark...... is BEAST!!!

 

[Olijolly]

agreed with KurashiDragon
the thing is a fucking beast and it is so fucking bulky
multi scale has saved my ass a couple o times and thank god finally...dragonite gets what it deserves...to fully get out of mence's shadows (as the bulky dragon)
i can actually see this thing being used more than mence :D

 

[KurashiDragon]

While I am inclined to agree with your agreeing me (lol where's this going?) This metegame is very hyper offensive. I desperatally tried to make my team bulky but I just couldn't. Salamence will probably be used more than Dragonite simply because it's much more offensive which is likely to be the standard. Oh and a little off topic. Latios is very FUCKING BROKEN!!!!

 

[Not Scicky]

How exactly was not hitting steels Extremespeeds problem? What steel type needs to be hit with Extremespeed anyway? The only one's that outran Dragonite in Gen IV were Jirachi, Lucario and Dialga and Lucario get's extremespeed too so LA-DEE-DA. :/

 

[KurashiDragon]

@Scicky

I'm going to assume your refering to the first discussion on this thread. In which case I say it's done. I know full well the major cons of aqua jet. Instead of constantly bringing it up again and again try and discuss the uses of aqua jet over Extreme Speed. Rain sets for example.

@Haunter (Edited my bump post cause I dp'd)

To defend myself I was only bumping the thread. Sry anyways.

 

[Bugbot]

The Bulky Dragon Dance set has 204 EVs in Speed, meaning 247 with a neutral nature. What does it outspeed after ONE Dragon Dance?

 

[lordkira]

204 speed EV will let you outspeed +nature base 100s after two DDs, which isn't too hard most of the time...esp once it gets its DW ability while keeping roost

 

[TheFourthChaser]

Unfortunatally, there are no 5th gen damage calcs up yet. To early. However if I had to guess I'd say yes. They're not very bulky. The bulkiest is Randorosu with 89 / 90 / 80.

The damage formula for 5th gen is incredibly similar, if not the same, to 4th gen's.

While I am inclined to agree with your agreeing me (lol where's this going?) This metegame is very hyper offensive. I desperatally tried to make my team bulky but I just couldn't. Salamence will probably be used more than Dragonite simply because it's much more offensive which is likely to be the standard. Oh and a little off topic. Latios is very FUCKING BROKEN!!!!

I've played some 5th gen, Latios didn't seem that bad. I don't really see a reason to use Dragonite when you will have all the other Dragons like Mence, Chomp, Ono, Sazandora, and any other Dragon that starts out unbanned. Marvel Scale doesn't sound like such a great ability because of an SR weakness and 80 base speed which is even worse in this generation.

 

[lmitchell0012]

I see big problems with multi scale users this generation. Yeah, it's a cool new ability but if there are any entry hazards out on the field you can kiss that boost goodbye. Rapid spinners will be absolutely essential if you want to take advantage of his new ability, and with so many new ghost types introduced this generation (with the exception of the rotom forms losing their ghost typing) you'll be hard pressed to get rid of those hazards. I think I'll stick with his old ability. I'd rather have the coverage granted by superpower than lose out on an ability nullified by entry hazards.

 

[KurashiDragon]

I've played some 5th gen, Latios didn't seem that bad. I don't really see a reason to use Dragonite when you will have all the other Dragons like Mence, Chomp, Ono, Sazandora, and any other Dragon that starts out unbanned. Marvel Scale doesn't sound like such a great ability because of an SR weakness and 80 base speed which is even worse in this generation.

I already know "Multi Scale's" with the entry hazard buisness. I do also agree with you that There are far to many dragons to say dragonite wont be taking the sidelines but all those dragon's you mentioned cant do what dragonite does. I wouldn't be surprised if I saw dragonite on a few more teams than last gen anyway.

I played two battles with the thing. One time it swept away 4 of my pokes before finally going down to my Sazandora. (Yes I was playing very well before that thing came out. I was not prepared for that thing.) In another battle it only took about 30% damage from my subsplit gengar's shadow ball (Which I'm pretty sure was a bug so shouldnt count)

@lmitchell0012
I think the fact that you'd take 50% less damage from all attacks when at full health (and the fact that you can use this ability multiple times with roost) heavily HEAVILY outweight the negatives of multi scale.