NOC C9++ Game Thread

[JALMONT]

I don't understand anything you just said, not sure if it's because you misused PR vs. VT or if I'm missing something in your logic. You seem to be saying that claiming a PR is easier than claiming a VT so PRs will claim VT? I don't understand what your conclusion is here. I still don't understand the point in doing so.

Do you always claim VT early in the game regardless of your role?

Regardless I guess this area of discussions is pretty off track so there's no point in pursuing it so I guess I'll drop it from here on out.

 

[Champ1604]

I don't understand anything you just said, not sure if it's because you misused PR vs. VT or if I'm missing something in your logic. You seem to be saying that claiming a PR is easier than claiming a VT so PRs will claim VT? I don't understand what your conclusion is here. I still don't understand the point in doing so.

Do you always claim VT early in the game regardless of your role?

Regardless I guess this area of discussions is pretty off track so there's no point in pursuing it so I guess I'll drop it from here on out.

Let's consider: You're a role cop.
Everyone is claiming VT.
For obvious reasons, you possibly feel that you may be in danger. (The sole purpose as to why you asked me this question in the first place.
So allow me to ask you,
would you claim VT?

Let's consdier

 

[Champ1604]

Let's consider: You're a role cop.
Everyone is claiming VT.
For obvious reasons, you possibly feel that you may be in danger. (The sole purpose as to why you asked me this question in the first place.
So allow me to ask you,
would you claim VT?

Let's consdier

...
I mistakenly pressed reply.

Let's consider: Your answer is yes.
Let's consider: You're being pushed by a lynch.

So allow me to ask you, would you claim Role Cop and retract from VT claim, along with proofs? I know, it may be difficult for you to make people believe you, but it would be easier for a VT who has not claimed earlier in a VT claim chain, and was thus considered to be a PR.

And from PR I mean Power Role.

I hope you understood what I mean.

 

[Thetwinmasters]

its post 24 hours in this game and we are still talking about pr strats smh

 

[MoodyCloud]

This may be another Ironicdouble pitfall but Fenrir's response to Twin calling his post "really fucking bad" feels rather genuine, asking for an explanation while being slightly offended looks like something I would do at least

 

[MoodyCloud]

Page 3 Durza/Twin feels belligerent enough to be TvT

 

[MoodyCloud]

Durza's early posts look pretty hysterical, his omgus at twin getting away with "because I said so" as a reason to vote while he dismisses Durza's reason reads rather genuine too however

 

[MoodyCloud]

The tone of Haruno's entrance seemed alright, Asek's feels off
Is this the game where I see scum Asek ?
Twin is getting a lot of the early discussion going
BBM's page 6 posts are good

 

[Champ1604]

PaperBlade Can you provide a lynch count?

 

[Asek]

What do people think bout this wrt durza

durza hard claims cop. given flips of mafia and potential sk to come, as well as our own power roles should we face the misfortune to have one be killed, we should have durza self resolve within the next few cycles. If he is indeed what he claims he is, mafia has a great deal of reason to kill him, or if they decide to wifom not kill him to try get him lynched, run the risk of him sitting on someone and blocking the kill and proving himself that way.

I think he self resolves within 3~ cycles at the most

yes this is me advocating that a durza lynch might not be the best idea for today. its probably the best one we have so far but thats why we need to make some wagons n shit

once again

lynch earlio

＠champ1604 i was promised reads today. please deliver

 

[Asek]

wtf why didnt that tag work

Champ1604

 

[Asek]

moodycloud skirting is noted

earlio has been skirting in a much more dysmal fashion

 

[JALMONT]

Normally I just ignore people asking me questions but I'm in the generous mood today.

and yes i'm going to ask questions when the alternative is slogging through the first 6 pages for slips, which is both less efficient and less enjoyable

Jalmont- why is asking questions scummy? that's pretty much what I'm doing too

I don't see a problem with frequently asking questions as long as you're asking them for a reason and do things with the answers.

Ah I found a quote that answers the question for me. It's a common tactic that I think mafia employ to skate by, and it's one that really stands out to me. Especially when these questions are used to encourage activity/posts from people other than that user themselves. It's fine to ask questions if there's some analysis after the fact, but otherwise it's a huge scum tell for me.

Reading Earlio back and his posts really don't do him any favors. I feel bad, but that's definitely the best lynch for me at this point. I'm leaving my vote on haruno for now, just because I feel it hasn't sunk it yet.

Durza's #212 reads post was no bueno at all, and that alone prevents me from clearing him. The whole claim situation is especially weird when you consider that a page before Durza was telling us that he wasn't worried about votes on him, especially from players like twin. The 180 is really startling to me.

zorbees and BBM are my top town at the moment. Everyone else is somewhere in between.

Uhh anyone else? kirsche I feel is floating by, and his #277 was pretty empty I feel.

alright peace for the nights friends.

 

[JALMONT]

Oh whoops I wanted to comment on the paranoia I've noticed has been gripping people recently.

Seriously, it's okay to be wrong and misread players. It's so tiring seeing people going "tin foil: so and so is actually mafia!!!" not only is it a waste of a post for the town, it's bad from an individual perspective because it means you're second guessing your reads. And it's also super obvious anyways. Well duh, anyone of us might be mafia. People need to be more decisive with their thoughts - the idea that "well I wouldn't be okay losing to x so we should lynch them even though I read them as town!" is just so negative and unhelpful and leads to nowhere. Accept the fact that you might be wrong about someone and be able to let it go as them playing a good game!

It's not scummy to do this but it gets on my nerves. Thanks. End short rant.

 

[Asek]

Oh whoops I wanted to comment on the paranoia I've noticed has been gripping people recently.

Seriously, it's okay to be wrong and misread players. It's so tiring seeing people going "tin foil: so and so is actually mafia!!!" not only is it a waste of a post for the town, it's bad from an individual perspective because it means you're second guessing your reads. And it's also super obvious anyways. Well duh, anyone of us might be mafia. People need to be more decisive with their thoughts - the idea that "well I wouldn't be okay losing to x so we should lynch them even though I read them as town!" is just so negative and unhelpful and leads to nowhere. Accept the fact that you might be wrong about someone and be able to let it go as them playing a good game!

It's not scummy to do this but it gets on my nerves. Thanks. End short rant.

is this directed at anyone

i dont remember anyone doing this so far itg

 

[JALMONT]

Well it's more of a comment towards the last game tbh. Moody's ID comment made me remember, so I guess it's not really directed at anyone in particular but more of a general comment.

 

[MoodyCloud]

Wait when did Durza claim cop I'm still on page 7 lol

 

[kirsche]

Asek can you explain why Champ is a town read please because I don't think you did.

Champ needs to stop with the setup spec and have an actual opinion on what's going on right now. Giving mafia any information about roles is a bad thing and it's suspect that you're still pushing it as an ok thing to do.

Then on top of that your point 2 is actually nonsense:

What's towny about a person claiming VT when under pressure? If you answer is "I never said that a person claiming VT under pressure is towny" then sorry it's my fault for being a vt.

How does this makes any sense? Why are you asking him this when you know he's gonna respond with that statement, and how does "being a VT" counter the point? Claiming VT when under pressure D1 is usually townie because if there's a wagon on you as scum then claiming VT doesn't save you (9/10). I have a bad feeling you're gonna just respond to this without posting reads though so post them, last chance.

Now on the other hand, if you're about to get shot then you want a claim that is as safe s possible, and what better for that than doc? Completely unprovable in this setup, strong enough to discourage a lynch, and especially strong enough to discourage day vigs (which was what was threatened). Since there's a decent chance he's not the only doc/protection we have (RB counts as protection I think) and he still hasn't given any reads other than outdated stuff on Twin I'm still good to lynch here.

I think it's unlikely that roles can't target consecutively, that would probably be mentioned in the mechanics in an open setup since it's not normal

the doc claim is probably town imo. the claim in reaction to the dayvig joke reads like panicked newbtown. I think newbscum would ask for advice and wouldn't have claimed so fast.

feels like asek is avoiding giving an opinion

I'm pretty sure Durza said he wasn't a newb? He might've mostly played chatroom mafia but the concepts should still be similar unless turbo wagons are really popular on that format or something which I admittedly don't know about, have you played it? I dunno feels like you're trying real hard to cut off criticism from him, why would scum not panic too at the thought of being dayvigged?

All this said I am pretty good to lynch Earlio too, this is like the fourth time they drove by to put a vote on a current wagon with only one line of justification.

I'm much better with Fenrir after his recent posts. Nothing disagreeable and some good points, especially about acid. Annoying that it took this long to get it but w/e, could use a consolidated reads list from him though as it's hard to track his scumreads. Same with acidphoenix really but with worse content, he chastises Durza for claiming only a day into the thread when Durza was threatened with a dayvig and doesn't give his thoughts on if that is a town claim or a scum claim. It seemed like he had an opinion on Durza before yet is sorta just letting what happens happen.

Durza > Earlio >>>> Champ > Acid Phoenix

 

[kirsche]

MoodyCloud on page 13 at the top.

 

[Asek]

Asek can you explain why Champ is a town read please because I don't think you did.

exact same 'im vt so u can lynch me' entrance as the last game they played

they were vt there

i tend to find new players are super eager into role claiming regardless of what they are as town and i guess i believe this one

 

[BigBangMeteor]

I think asek meant to say doc, not cop. I don't think we should lynch durza, but mafia have no incentive to kill him when we could lynch him for them at any time, so him staying alive won't really mean anything. it's easy enough to doc-dodge for a phase or two, and besides, most potential setups include a scum hooker.

strong possibility imo that champ is scum trying a gambit and hoping that people give him a pass for being a newb who doesn't know any better. he's shown no interest in finding scum and continues to defend his VT claim and therefore himself over giving any opinions about other things

also I just looked at champ's avatar for the first time and that shit is fucking disturbing. ask yourself, would a townie really have that avatar???

 

[Lrr]

Votecount 1.4

DurzaOffTopic: kirsche, Twin, zorbees, Earlio
Earlio: asek, BBM
BBM: Haruno, Fenrir
Thetwinmasters: Champ1604
Haruno: Jalmont
zorbees: acidphoenix

Not voting: MoodyCloud, DurzaOffTopic

 

[earl]

Sorry, just woke up. I'm still not really sure why I'm being read as scum (something about not posting for a while because sleep) but here's some more reads anyhow:
Haruno: Very quiet, and from what I've seen of town haruno in the past they've been more vocal than this. Decent SR
Zorbees: Is acting just like town Zorbees from the last NOC, so I'm going with town for now.
Champ: I hunger for reads
BBM: Posts are good, seems to be invested in helping town so TR on him
Asek: Haven't seen scum Asek but is acting pretty much the same as town Asek from last game
Twin: Aggressive townie, mafia would never (i think) tunnel on a random person D1
Kirsche: Haven't really seen anything blatantly scummy from him, seems like a decent TR (given I have no idea how he plays)
Durza: Probably Scum seeing as he hasn't responded as more so attacked Twin back
Fenrir: Posts have been getting better and seems less scummy then before. I also think the Fenrir+Durza team is pretty debunked at this point.
Jalmont: No clue honestly, but I think a scum would at least try to post a little more

For now Lynch Champ

 

[BigBangMeteor]

reread haruno's posts and they reinforced my opinion that haruno is in and around the thread a lot and has a lot of posts for someone whose relevant contributions are actually pretty limited. so far they've really only said that I'm scummier than durza, that zorbees is jumpier than usual, and that the durza wagon should be examined more.

that first one is annoying to me personally because I take a great deal of pride in getting killed night 1 and it won't happen if people think I'm scum. but more generally I'm clearly not a lynch target at the moment, and yet haruno has neither changed their vote nor attempted to actually convince anybody else that I'm scum. they've pretty just much been parking their vote on me since RVS.

idk about the zorbees thing, but the third thing kind of seems suspect because a) why not actually examine the wagon rather than say other people should do it, and b) they haven't even really given an opinion on durza, other than to say they're not as bad as me. haruno has a bunch of posts asking paper about doctor mechanics but none where they say whether the doc claim is townie or scummy. they sort of address it in #330 but it's pretty waffly and talks more about what we shouldn't do than what we should do.

all in all haruno is probably my #2 scumread atm

 

[earl]

No real opinion on Acid and Moody as far as reads go for them