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BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Tobes
- Start date
Milotic can do no more back to them than Dusknoir can, although it can stall a bit better with Recover. You can't call it a counter if it can't 1)switch in and not get 2HKOed and 2)do anything back to the other pokemon. Same reason that Jellicent really doesn't counter Keldeo, despite being immune to both of its STAB moves.
You really can't counter all three of them at the same time with a single pokemon, but there are certain pokemon that are a solid check. I've found Jolteon to work the best, solidly checking the Therians on a switch in while being a good thing to send out otherwise and force them out. Chansey obviously walls them but can only go for the 3HKO with Seismic toss, same with Lanturn, Snorlax is probably decent too.
You really can't counter all three of them at the same time with a single pokemon, but there are certain pokemon that are a solid check. I've found Jolteon to work the best, solidly checking the Therians on a switch in while being a good thing to send out otherwise and force them out. Chansey obviously walls them but can only go for the 3HKO with Seismic toss, same with Lanturn, Snorlax is probably decent too.
Jolteon is certainly not a good switch-in to any of the Therians except Thundurus's Electric-type attacks. Jolteon is taking upwards of 50% from Tornadus-T's LO Timid Hurricane, and Choice Specs does a bit more. With some previous damage / entry hazard damage, Jolteon will be gone in no time. Jolteon works much better as a revenge killer to the Therians for those reasons.
Regarding Milotic, it really isn't suited to the BW2 OU metagame. Despite it's high Special Defense, it can't take repeated STAB Hurricanes and Thunderbolts. It's also considerably slower, and will not be able to OHKO any of the Therians with Ice Beam if it is going to invest in Special Defense. A poor choice by any means. I've found Metagross to be an interesting check - while it doesn't resist Electric-type moves, it can slam the Therians with a Choice Banded Ice Punch. With Stealth Rock down, it can KO with even a Choice Scarf Ice Punch.
If we're using things like Lanturn simply to counter one or two threats in the metagame, then something is seriously wrong with the picture... Anyways, although I've found rain to be the dominating weather, it really isn't too difficult to overcome the weather war with sandstorm teams. Sun obviously has a bit more trouble, especially with things like Keldeo, but Venusaur puts the stop to nearly any Keldeo variant.
Regarding Milotic, it really isn't suited to the BW2 OU metagame. Despite it's high Special Defense, it can't take repeated STAB Hurricanes and Thunderbolts. It's also considerably slower, and will not be able to OHKO any of the Therians with Ice Beam if it is going to invest in Special Defense. A poor choice by any means. I've found Metagross to be an interesting check - while it doesn't resist Electric-type moves, it can slam the Therians with a Choice Banded Ice Punch. With Stealth Rock down, it can KO with even a Choice Scarf Ice Punch.
If we're using things like Lanturn simply to counter one or two threats in the metagame, then something is seriously wrong with the picture... Anyways, although I've found rain to be the dominating weather, it really isn't too difficult to overcome the weather war with sandstorm teams. Sun obviously has a bit more trouble, especially with things like Keldeo, but Venusaur puts the stop to nearly any Keldeo variant.
Everyone's raging about how useful mamo is but what about weavile? It can outspeed all the genies and OHKO with ice punch and can revenge dragons w/ice shard. On top of that it destroys latios and latias and can trap the genies who try to escape w/pursuit. It seems really anit-meta atm. Is it any viable in OU now?
I gave Weavile a shot (mostly to trap Latias and smack Amoongus that would try and counter Keldeo). It was not that bad, but it kinda ran into 4MSS, and it was very hard to get in. For example, Scarf Thundurus-T would Volt Switch on Keldeo and I couldn't get Weavile in. It was also grounded, and weak to Stealth Rock, so I struggled to get excellent use out of it. Its not a terrible pokemon, its just very hard to use in this current metagame.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
I've always seen the sun vs. rain weather war as something in sun's favor due to the fact that rain teams kind of need their weather up to not suck. Without it, they suddenly have 50% accurate hurricanes and thunders and water attacks that have their power cut in half. It doesn't help that setting up with something like volcorona in the sun could spell the end for rain teams if they don't carry one of it's usual checks (and I almost never see a scarfed landorus or a terrakion on a rain team).
That, and politoed is going to have some serious trouble switching into anything on a sun team that isn't ninetales or defensive heatran. Meanwhile, ninetales can at least switch into the common ferrothorn or skarmory. It can even switch into scarfed and defensive politoed variants if it's running a defensive set. And since sunny day ninetales is quite common, even politoed doesn't like switching into it all that much. Setting the weather back up against things like growth venusaur or Sawsbuck will probably require a sacrifice on the rain player's part unless they predict perfectly. For sun, this is much less of an issue.
So about jolteon. I would like to ask about quick feet jolteon. While giving up volt absorb may sound horrible, you also give up jolteon's ability to get checked by any fast scarfer. The likes of scarf terrakion, landorus (non Therian), and keldeo allows jolteon to clean up pretty well late game. I have actually been running rest talk on one with hp ice and thunder just to keep him around longer. Quick feet is always active because he's always status'd and when my opponent tries to wear him down with constant switching, I just use rest while maintaining my massive speed.
It's not super viable, but it's nice to have a Pokemon who can check scarfers without having to resort to banded priority or a scarf itself. Loses to mamoswine, but I think I already mentioned how amazing he is right now.
That, and politoed is going to have some serious trouble switching into anything on a sun team that isn't ninetales or defensive heatran. Meanwhile, ninetales can at least switch into the common ferrothorn or skarmory. It can even switch into scarfed and defensive politoed variants if it's running a defensive set. And since sunny day ninetales is quite common, even politoed doesn't like switching into it all that much. Setting the weather back up against things like growth venusaur or Sawsbuck will probably require a sacrifice on the rain player's part unless they predict perfectly. For sun, this is much less of an issue.
So about jolteon. I would like to ask about quick feet jolteon. While giving up volt absorb may sound horrible, you also give up jolteon's ability to get checked by any fast scarfer. The likes of scarf terrakion, landorus (non Therian), and keldeo allows jolteon to clean up pretty well late game. I have actually been running rest talk on one with hp ice and thunder just to keep him around longer. Quick feet is always active because he's always status'd and when my opponent tries to wear him down with constant switching, I just use rest while maintaining my massive speed.
It's not super viable, but it's nice to have a Pokemon who can check scarfers without having to resort to banded priority or a scarf itself. Loses to mamoswine, but I think I already mentioned how amazing he is right now.
I've always seen the sun vs. rain weather war as something in rain's favor due to the fact that sun teams kind of need their weather up to not suck. Without it, they suddenly have 60 base power Solar Beam and fire attacks that have their power cut in half. They add another water weakness. Chlorophyllers sucks etc...
BurningMan
fueled by beer
Yeah i have been playing some rain Teams and Sun was suprisingly difficult to play against mostly because all the new Rain abusers all hate being in the Sun. In BW 1 most rain teams weren't so super reliant on their weather, because they only profited from additional resistances and maybe a boosted Scald, however if you stab gets cut to half the power/accuracy things get ugly for you.
However i think this will change by time when people adapt to the new Metagame changes and and the hype over the new Pokemon stops.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
This is probably true. Thinking about it now, I don't even see tentacruel that often anymore, as most rain teams just stick to starmie for spinning now.
Sun is pretty trash when fighting in rain but I mentioned volcorona, who really doesn't care that much if the weather has changed once it already started setting up. I also mentioned how hard it was to switch politoed in as well too. And lol, using Solarbeam.
I'm actually playing sun right now and I rarely have problems with rain. Sunny Day Tales gets Politoed in a tough spot, and can also come in on a Thunderbolt from Thundurus-T (I realize most rain sets run Thunder), and KO back with a sun boosted Flamethrower. Also, (I don't use it), but even at +1 SpA, Venasaur does massive damage to Politoed.
Also, nobody uses Solar Beam. Unless they're also running Sunny Day.
I honestly hate what ou is becoming. It's so fucking boring. All teams are basically bulky offense with scizor and a therian form in every team, there's no variety. Hyper offense has taken a pretty big dive and stall is extremely difficult to pull off. The therian forms really shaken up the game in a negative way. I hope the future drop downs will change things.
Not to be a troll, but isn't this the definition of "Overused" in the first place? OU has always suffered from a lack of variety, even in Gen I and II. This is why I have always played UU and below, for the broadness.
point it out if im wrong, but couldn't a scarf SF nidoking take out all of tornadus-t, thundurus-t, and keldeo? with ice beam and thunderbolt(thunder), that is, lol
although it might be noted any of the first two having scarf or an agility boost, or the rare CB keldeo's aqua jet could put an end to said king's fun
although it might be noted any of the first two having scarf or an agility boost, or the rare CB keldeo's aqua jet could put an end to said king's fun
http://serebii.net/black2white2/spookymanor.shtml No Guard Golurk is out!!!
neato, but not sure if I'm willing to sacrifice that awesome Iron First boosted Drain Punch/Ice Punch/Shadow Punch that, when paired with Earthquake, allows you to hit 14/17 types super effectively. I guess you could run the same set with DynamicPunch>Drain Punch and No Guard>Iron Fist but it seems a waste of potential when you're running three punching attacks and is a 100BP DynamicPunch really that much better than a 90BP Drain Punch?
Disregarding the 'stickied' thread that says not to discuss the (un)banning of Pokemon, do you at least have any evidence to support your claim? Keep in mind that in a forum like this, you need to be able to justify your opinions if you wish for them to be taken seriously. Trust me.
Ironically, I've found the best way to deal with the Therian Formes and Keldeo is another Thundurus-T. Thundurus-T can switch into Eathquake from Landorus-T and OHKO it with Hidden Power Ice, switch into a Specs boosted Hurricane (once including Stealth Rock) and OHKO with Thunderbolt (assuming it has a Scarf). Same with Specs Keldeo (do people use that?) and Secret Sword. For another Thundurus-T, it can get free healing by switching into its Thunderbolt, and almost OHKO with Hidden Power Ice.
I don't really think any of the 4 are broken really, as I've been able to deal with all of them pretty well.
And as for Golurk, its going to be more infuriating than it usually is in NU with DynamicPunch and always-hit Stone Edge. It even has Rock Polish to outspeed everything and always cause confusion first... but I don't see it doing anything in OU. I'd use Iron Fist for a SubPunch set or an All-Out attacker, but for Rock-Polish, it works pretty well.
I don't really think any of the 4 are broken really, as I've been able to deal with all of them pretty well.
And as for Golurk, its going to be more infuriating than it usually is in NU with DynamicPunch and always-hit Stone Edge. It even has Rock Polish to outspeed everything and always cause confusion first... but I don't see it doing anything in OU. I'd use Iron Fist for a SubPunch set or an All-Out attacker, but for Rock-Polish, it works pretty well.
you wanna think that one through again?
dynamicpunch needs to be used with no guard to be competitively viable
You only get one ability =D.
Also I have a question for you OU players: What kind of role does Landorus-T usually play? I tried using it on an offensive sand team and quickly wanted to use the regular form instead. Is Landorus-T supposed to be more of a defensive Pokemon?
I run defensive Landorus-T and I think that him with Breloom as a whole almost would ask for an Excadrill retest in OU. Intimidate is such a baller ability, especially with a Ground/Flying-typing. I would almost like to say that Ground/Flying is the best defensive type that exists currently in the game.
Seems like Landorus could be in quarrel with Gliscor over a spot on teams. ^^