What about instead of a cap, changing the multiplier. I found multiplying each value by 75% is pretty cool since it brings 120 base power moves to 90, and parabolic charge is now "only" 120 bp. So, instead of a letter/space being a 10 bp boost, maybe make it a 7.5 (or some other value) to make the game less super hyper offensive.
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BasePowerMons (edited, look at post #87)
- Thread starter The Shellder Smuggler
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xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
i second this notion of the boosting moves
sucker punch = first limiting factor. run all attacking moves? mega absol will destroy your pretty ass before you even blink. still offensive, but you can't just spam strong attacks on fast pokes. you will take a good amount of damage before you can attack. so there's that.
this is stabmons on steroids and crack. sounds like fun.
better get some big stall buffs. just be sure you don't use people that favor stall over other playstyles please, and vice-versa, because i know thats gonna happen.
edit: a different system would be good in terms of an easy nerf. the big issue here is the power of some attacks, many attacks actually, so it would take tons of tedious playtesting to sort out the sheer number of powerful moves, including the pokes that use them and their coverage as sweepers. i think changing it to a lower bp per letter would save us a lot of grueling effort to get this thing playable in any semi-balanced manner.
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Finally, I'm glad people are starting to find strategy now. Honestly, that's why I made Sucker Punch a little OP, it stops people from just spamming 130 BP moves.
For the moment, I'm planning on making Stall a lot more intense following a letter system.
Let's wait till the meta is playable before nerfs begin to be considered :]
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
i'm suggesting that a BP nerf for everything could save us a lot of work right off the back...we could test both and see how they turn out, i think we would be quite a bit more balanced at 8 or 7.5 (although 7.5 could cause confusion)
I am curious how you plan on balancing stall to these moves so i guess it's wait and see for now. But gale wings acrobatics needs mentioning... Seriously a 300bp priority from the best attacking type in the metagame is ridiculously broken,
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
i see a need to TEST before we do ANYTHING.
Until this stuff is tested, don't say "(insert powerful move here) is overpowered and needs to be banned." This is a meta i would not like to see ruined because the future players pressure the creator into making bad decisions or rushing the process without testing completely.
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140 BP Power-Up Punch (unless hyphens don't count, then it's 120 still).
Power-Up Punch > Close Combat
252+ Atk Iron Fist Infernape 140BP Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 684-806 (97.1 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Iron Fist Conkeldurr 140BP Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 842-992 (119.6 - 140.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Power-Up Punch > Close Combat
252+ Atk Iron Fist Infernape 140BP Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 684-806 (97.1 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Iron Fist Conkeldurr 140BP Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 842-992 (119.6 - 140.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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EV
Banned deucer.
When did Aero learn Head Smash?
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
still stuck in stabmons damnit. ive played that meta too much lately lol. edited that :)
also spaces count right? so isint PUP 140 power? that means infernape can ohko chansey, if i am correct.
Edited. :) But Infernape still doesn't OHKO Chansey :(
Still, it's OP.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
yeah but that 81%...thats a 100 after rocks boiiii
infernape would probably be more viable than conkeldurr due to the speed as it can turn into a big time sweeper with a jolly nature if it comes in on the right poke.
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Anyways, I discussed with TEG, and instead of +10 for every letter, it's +8. Cheers!
AWailOfATail
viva la darmz
Ok, this looks better. PuP goes from a ridiculous 140 to a still ridiculous but more manageable 112 BP. Overall this looks like a good change.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
A step in the right direction. there will be a need for certain pokes to get nerfed but i think this is a great oppurtunity for unheard of pokes with lack of good movepools to be able to shine with moves that normally wouldnt be very good. This is a coverage buff where there will be some pokes that go from low tier threat to major OU threat that i hope happens.
what used to be 90 BP knock off now is 72 however, just stronger than normal.
PUP does need a nerf for the most part...its kind of OP being one of the strongest moves and turning you into a sweeper (hi infernape).
hidden power goes down to 96...still very powerful compared to other moves.
parabolic charge is now 132 BP...which is still just wayyyy too powerful and needs a nerf. having the strongest move in the entire meta be a healing move, albeit not many pokes can learn it, is not a good idea.
Thousand arrows still for amazing ultimate legendary skarm destroyer and really amazing coverage in general. i don't think people realize without levitate and flying types, ground moves are pretty strong in terms of coverage. also base 124 for this move. still OP. the unfortunate part of the nerf is that these are the only two existing moves over 120 BP which sucks, and i think that this meta will be hyper offensive until PUP nerfs and then become balanced or stall based partially.
It sucks there arent many special attacking dragons, dragonbreath was really cool. dragon claw was strong but now sits at a solid 88 BP...pretty close to its normal stat total.
Much more balanced just like that.
what used to be 90 BP knock off now is 72 however, just stronger than normal.
PUP does need a nerf for the most part...its kind of OP being one of the strongest moves and turning you into a sweeper (hi infernape).
hidden power goes down to 96...still very powerful compared to other moves.
parabolic charge is now 132 BP...which is still just wayyyy too powerful and needs a nerf. having the strongest move in the entire meta be a healing move, albeit not many pokes can learn it, is not a good idea.
Thousand arrows still for amazing ultimate legendary skarm destroyer and really amazing coverage in general. i don't think people realize without levitate and flying types, ground moves are pretty strong in terms of coverage. also base 124 for this move. still OP. the unfortunate part of the nerf is that these are the only two existing moves over 120 BP which sucks, and i think that this meta will be hyper offensive until PUP nerfs and then become balanced or stall based partially.
It sucks there arent many special attacking dragons, dragonbreath was really cool. dragon claw was strong but now sits at a solid 88 BP...pretty close to its normal stat total.
Much more balanced just like that.
Am I the only person who doesn't think Parabolic Charge needs to be nerfed?
In standard, there's another move that is "way too powerful," and not many Pokemon learn it either: Boomburst. Exploud, Noivern, Swellow, and Chatot learn Boomburst, similar to how Dedenne and Heliolisk learn Parabolic Charge. (I excluded Smeargle.) We haven't seen fit to nerf Boomburst, have we? Parabolic Charge's healing makes it a tad better than standard Boomburst, but the comparison stands.
AWailOfATail
viva la darmz
Also how will this affect priority? Most iirc are still at 80 or above, but Ice Shard drops to 72.
As for Parabolic Charge, don't go crazy yet. There are gonna be Ground types. Sure, HP Ice will hurt, but it's not as bad. Also no one will use Dedenne, but Heliolisk will see use. Then the Mach Punch comes.
Edit the OP btw
As for Parabolic Charge, don't go crazy yet. There are gonna be Ground types. Sure, HP Ice will hurt, but it's not as bad. Also no one will use Dedenne, but Heliolisk will see use. Then the Mach Punch comes.
Edit the OP btw
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Priority is unchanged except for ice shard which is now 72
and feint which is 40
It's a shame that Fell Stinger doesn't have any viable users. It's a 96 BP (post-nerf) physical bug move that gives +2 attack on a KO in this meta.
we always have chlorophyl leavany (who also has access to sticky web)
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
the problem isint its high power - that is manageable - the problem is that its the strongest move in the game and it heals 50%. Boomburst doesn't have viable users even with its usage, since the best one that gets stab is Exploud which is only mediocre in the meta. The problem is when you get a poke with the power and speed of Heliolisk, and then add healing from the game's strongest move, and the result is a move that is really overpowered. Slap on a choice scarf and its a revenge killer than can heal hp it loses from SR or switching in. Slap on a choice specs and watch everything die to your power. People will even run bulky sets and say only thousand arrows can ohko and if you don't i'll gain all my hp back. Thats pretty simple and easy to use, and doesn't require skill whatsoever. You are taking exploud, which is viable, and you are adding more power and speed, one of the best attacking types in the game, and it healing the user a large amount, you have one of the strongest possible threats in this meta.
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The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Heliolisk has been added to possible suspects.
It heals you 50% damage outpit
Kind of surprised Talonflame hasn't been added to the threat list with its priority Acrobatics (which now sits at 80 BP, but factoring in STAB and Acrobatics effect it becomes 240). Same with Azumarill who has that boosted Aqua Jet. True, it only goes up to 64 meaning its not as strong as other Priority, but still are you going to argue with Huge Power AND a stronger Aqua Jet. Not to mention Belly Drum. Mega Absol's Sucker Punch is also something to be feared.
Oh, and just cause I like him as a gimmicky Pokemon. Shedinja is only affected by 13 moves on Level51's list. If you take out signature moves or two turns that number goes down to 5 (5 moves with 96+ BP moves affect him). True, that's not perfect, but still if you are just going for moves with the longest names you got to watch out for him. Heliolisk gets Dark Pulse to handle him though.
And just to help further the discussion on Heliolisk you can combine that Choice Specs boost with its Hidden Ability of Solar Power to give him an extra 50% boost. In the sun holding Choice Specs Parabolic Charge's power becomes something equivalent to around 432. I also thought maybe Assault Vest and he would become harder to kill on the special side. Especially since he can recover with Parabolic Charge as well as switch to Hidden Power Ice unlike his Scarf variant.
Oh, and just cause I like him as a gimmicky Pokemon. Shedinja is only affected by 13 moves on Level51's list. If you take out signature moves or two turns that number goes down to 5 (5 moves with 96+ BP moves affect him). True, that's not perfect, but still if you are just going for moves with the longest names you got to watch out for him. Heliolisk gets Dark Pulse to handle him though.
And just to help further the discussion on Heliolisk you can combine that Choice Specs boost with its Hidden Ability of Solar Power to give him an extra 50% boost. In the sun holding Choice Specs Parabolic Charge's power becomes something equivalent to around 432. I also thought maybe Assault Vest and he would become harder to kill on the special side. Especially since he can recover with Parabolic Charge as well as switch to Hidden Power Ice unlike his Scarf variant.
The Shellder Smuggler
Banned deucer.
Talonflame now is on the threat list for base 240 BP priority Acrobatics (and is also being added to possible suspects, while Dragonite is being removed)
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