Hyper Voice seems nearly as powerful, plus has the ability to hit through sub.Which is why you run Life Orb. You save Hyper Beam for those rare situations where the recoil actually kills you. Assuming you're saving him for cleanup, it's not a completely unreasonable situation.
Porygon Z has a normal type Hyper Beam... an Ice attack is much better.Hyper Beam is not usable on Aurorus. Refridgerate gives a 1.33333x boost to normal moves turned Ice meaning it is exactly the same as Adaptability.
Porygon Z never made use of Adaptability Hyper Beam and Porygon Z had much more Speed, Special Attack, and a far better movepool. It even has arguably better defensive typing.
I believe the poster's intent was thatLuigi Player said:Porygon Z has a normal type Hyper Beam... an Ice attack is much better.
And no, 1.3x (Refrigerate) isn't the same as 1.5x (Adaptability).
"Your Pokemon Used Stone Edge! It missed!"Aurorus used Hyper Beam! Opponent fainted!
...
Lucario use Swords Dance
Gyarados used Dragon Dance
Zygarde used Coil
Volcarona used Quiver Dance
Cloyster used Shell Smash
etc
You get a KO, but your opponent now gets six of them.
You can't predict your opponent's move missing with any reasonable degree of certainty. You can predict the Hyper Beam recharge turn 100% of the time."Your Pokemon Used Stone Edge! It missed!"
Congratulations your opponent now has a free turn to do whatever they want. Or...
"Your Pokemon used High Jump Kick! It missed and died and gave the opponent a free turn! You lose! :D"
Listing the worse case scenario isn't the most accurate way to describe the utility of a move.
Besides. The guy on top of the page had a good point. Just carry Ditto in reserve. They CAN set up... but it might screw them over. Not easily done if they have Volcarona since it gains resistance to the damage it's boosting. But no strategy is foolproof.
2013 and people still use this argument against Hyper Beam. You're not going to use it when it's painfully obvious the opponent has a setup sweeper waiting in the wings (Team preview says hello) that you can't stop, but rather as a last ditch move that can score an OHKO when everything else can't and you have a way to play around those (priority, Ditto, Prankster, etc.).Aurorus used Hyper Beam! Opponent fainted!
...
Lucario use Swords Dance
Gyarados used Dragon Dance
Zygarde used Coil
Volcarona used Quiver Dance
Cloyster used Shell Smash
etc
You get a KO, but your opponent now gets six of them.
Which means you're never using it because nearly every slightly offensive team has a set-up sweeper.2013 and people still use this argument against Hyper Beam. You're not going to use it when it's painfully obvious the opponent has a setup sweeper waiting in the wings (Team preview says hello) that you can't stop, but rather as a last ditch move that can score an OHKO when everything else can't and you have a way to play around those (priority, Ditto, Prankster, etc.).
Refrigerate hypervoice=117bp more ppHyper voice is even with blizzard, its not boomburst. Which is still a boost going past subs/not missing,
First, don't pretend that you can easily identify all of your opponent's setup sweepers just by looking at Team Preview. Just by looking at an icon of the Pokemon, you don't know if that Scizor is Choice Band or Swords Dance, you don't know if that Keldeo is Calm Mind or Choice Scarf, you don't know if that Terrakion is Choice Band or Double Booster, you don't know much of anything about the Pokemon based on the Team Preview alone besides the fact that it exists. You can make guesses about it based on your knowledge of common playstyles, but it's still just a guess.2013 and people still use this argument against Hyper Beam. You're not going to use it when it's painfully obvious the opponent has a setup sweeper waiting in the wings (Team preview says hello) that you can't stop, but rather as a last ditch move that can score an OHKO when everything else can't and you have a way to play around those (priority, Ditto, Prankster, etc.).
Examples? What Calm Mind users can you actually OHKO after it used Calm Mind? What if you miss the OHKO? You just gave the opponent's Calm Mind user another free boost or maybe free recovery if they're carrying such a move. Heck, why not just use Encore? You can trap the opponent into Calm Mind and get a free switch to something else on your team that can actually beat it.Last pokemon scenario after it used Calm Mind?
Examples? Anything that is OHKO'd by Hyper Beam can just as easily be 2HKO'd by Nature Power. Nature Power also has 32 PP, so you can easily outlast most recovery moves, which generally sit at just 16 or lower. The 20% chance to inflict status can also help you here. Also, what Flying-type is going to try and stay in on an Ice/Rock type? The moment it stops Roosting, it's vulnerable to any one of Ice Beam, Freeze Dry, Thunderbolt, or Ancientpower. Some Flying-types (i.e. Talonflame, Dragonite, etc.) are vulnerable to those even if they use Roost. Alternatively, you could just Encore the Roost and get a free switch to something else and possibly free setup likewise.Generic specially defensive wall who would just spam Recover over and over if you can't cleanly OHKO it? Fast flying-type who uses Roost and would be able to take another attack otherwise?
If Aurorus has 140 base Special Attack and 130~ base speed alongside more passable typing (like Ice / Fighting or Ice / Ground) I could MAYBE see Hyper Beam as a 4th moveslot or a Specs set. However Aurorus is slow, frail, has bad typing, relatively unimpressive offenses and an average at best movepool.2013 and people still use this argument against Hyper Beam. You're not going to use it when it's painfully obvious the opponent has a setup sweeper waiting in the wings (Team preview says hello) that you can't stop, but rather as a last ditch move that can score an OHKO when everything else can't and you have a way to play around those (priority, Ditto, Prankster, etc.).
For the record I'm against Hyper Beam under normal circumstances not just because it gives the opponent a chance to setup, but because it simply isn't strong enough and Normal is a bad offensive type, so when you consider the recharge turn it's obvious the cons outweigh the pros.
However this is a ~300 BP Ice-type move we're talking about, which definitely has its merits. Last pokemon scenario after it used Calm Mind? Generic specially defensive wall who would just spam Recover over and over if you can't cleanly OHKO it? Fast flying-type who uses Roost and would be able to take another attack otherwise?
Right. I forgot about 120->110.Refrigerate hypervoice=117bp more pp
Blizzard=110 bp 8pp
Snow warning is still probably better though. Wish glaceon got refrigerate, both of its abilities suck with the weather nerf.
This guy nailed it. In fact, that should be the FINAL nail on the Hyper Beam coffin. It's not really a discussion worth continuing and I can guarantee you the mods will start deleting posts that still continue to vouch for Refrigerate Hyper Beam. Refrigerate Aurorus will ALWAYS be running Nature Power for the TriAttack - it is simply a better attack to have.If Aurorus has 140 base Special Attack and 130~ base speed alongside more passable typing (like Ice / Fighting or Ice / Ground) I could MAYBE see Hyper Beam as a 4th moveslot or a Specs set. However Aurorus is slow, frail, has bad typing, relatively unimpressive offenses and an average at best movepool.
I can absolutely see your point, even though you are wrong. Sometimes you just NEED that extra bit of firepower to remove something even at the cost of a free turn. With team preview you can intelligently weigh if that free turn will be more costly than a 300 BP Ice type Hyper Beam. However doing so will probably mean at best Aurorus will die, at worst your opponent gets a turn to set up and end the game with a counter sweep. I used to run Specs Porygon Z in gen 5 UU and I actually ran Hyper Beam in the 4th move slot for a time. However it rarely came in handy has Specs Tri-Attack slaughtered pretty much the same things, and Hyper Beam that failed to get a KO or strike something "soft" enough to do meaningful damage often meant Porygon Z would be crippled or destroyed. True I rarely would play badly enough to let something set up on me, but more often than not I would AT BEST make a 1-1 trade. I ended up switching to Trick because at least that would allow me to fuck with something and maybe have a chance of conserving Porygon Z for later.
tl;dr running it won't make you lose if you play carefully, but it will rarely actually put you ahead in the game and will generally not give you enough power to muscle past your counters. Don't use it.
Nature Power does indeed become Tri-Attack this generation. So, no more Earthquakes coming out of it. Sorry, Prankster Groudon :/Correct me if im wrong bit does Nature Power not become TriAttack this gen in wifi. Would actually make Refig a good ability for this guy in my opinion
Ancient Power =/= Power Gem. I say switch that out for a different move (not that it unfortunately has a wide variety of choices)Aurorus @ Leftovers
Ability: Snow warning
EVs: 4 HP / 252 speed / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Ancient power
When the hidden ability comes out, I'm running this set.
It learns power gem? nice, yeah I will switch out ancient powerAncient Power =/= Power Gem. I say switch that out for a different move (not that it unfortunately has a wide variety of choices)
Actually it doesn't seem to learn Power Gem, so you should skip the Rock moves.It learns power gem? nice, yeah I will switch out ancient power