3v3 Singles Metagame Discussion Thread

[Hulavuta]

I was considering using an Amoonguss as my grass type, but he honestly seems very underwhelming. Maybe a Rotom-C?

Amoonguss can give trouble to some teams although Goodra and Mega Venusaur are complete stops to it. Rotom-Cut could work but it's important to think of what the Pokemon actually does in the core instead of just making sure it's a Grass type. Without that Steel or Poison typing, it can't really take Play Rough from Azumarill, and I think it's just generally not as useful as Rotom-W due to having so many more weaknesses.

Honestly, I'd see if you could give Ferrothorn one more shot, what kind of sets have you been using on it and what has it been losing to? I am kinda interested in using it myself, it's a favorite of mine in Doubles but I've never really used it in Singles.

 

[ethan06]

Um, so what did people use for dual screen setting before Klefki existed? I'd use a Klefki but my lineup is now sitting at MManectric/Lando-T/Azumarill/MGarde/Aegislash and I really don't want to stack types :( I'm thinking of Cresselia for starters, what do people generally run on that?

 

[BWong]

I'm currently using Uxie. Besides dual screens she gets yawn, t-wave, SR, and most helpful of all: Memento

An unexpected screener I ran into that was very effective was Raikou. Caught me off guard setting up screen while switching to a counter.

 

[BWong]

Amoonguss can give trouble to some teams although Goodra and Mega Venusaur are complete stops to it. Rotom-Cut could work but it's important to think of what the Pokemon actually does in the core instead of just making sure it's a Grass type. Without that Steel or Poison typing, it can't really take Play Rough from Azumarill, and I think it's just generally not as useful as Rotom-W due to having so many more weaknesses.

Honestly, I'd see if you could give Ferrothorn one more shot, what kind of sets have you been using on it and what has it been losing to? I am kinda interested in using it myself, it's a favorite of mine in Doubles but I've never really used it in Singles.

I was using the sub seed set with power whip, and it just felt very underwhelming. I felt like it was a much better pivot on a 6v6 team, but really didn't offer a lot to 3v3 other than countering Mega Kangaskhan.

 

[ethan06]

I was using the sub seed set with power whip, and it just felt very underwhelming. I felt like it was a much better pivot on a 6v6 team, but really didn't offer a lot to 3v3 other than countering Mega Kangaskhan.

I agree... The short time I used it, I felt like it was too slow and prone to being setup fodder to do well for me in 3v3 :( I was running Curse/SR/Power Whip/Gyro Ball. It would probably wok far better with Leech Seed though...

 

[Hulavuta]

I think you should drop sub for protect and add Gyro Ball, it's a really good move considering everything is so fast. Impish is the most used nature, but if you use Brave without any Defensive investment, Garchomp Earthquake is only a 3HKO and you 2HKO with Gyro Ball (although Rough Skin turns it into a 2HKO if you don't have Leftovers/Leech Seed going at the time).

It also might be worth throwing in Thunder Wave to hit stuff like Talonflame or Blaziken that normally get free switches. Just my guesses, haven't tested any of this.

Oh and yeah, Ferrothorn pretty much needs Leech Seed always, haha.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I'm currently using Uxie. Besides dual screens she gets yawn, t-wave, SR, and most helpful of all: Memento

An unexpected screener I ran into that was very effective was Raikou. Caught me off guard setting up screen while switching to a counter.

I used Uxie a lot as a dual screens lead in Gen V. Memento is seemingly the only reason to use it in singles over other options, though. It can allow for some interesting setup, but you need to be damn sure the following Pokemon can sweep, as you're essentially sacrificing a third of your team for it.

Granted, I never did amazingly well at 3 vs 3 singles in Gen V, and that might have been part of the reason. With the amount of Prankster Pokemon and priority-abusers like Talonflame, Sucker Punching Mawile and Kangaskhan, etc., I'd be even more hesitant now about sacrificing something for one setup sweeper.

Dual screens + Yawn gives Uxie a home in Rotation though.

 

[freekhoorn]

Is it me or is rock tomb as a move suddenly spammed by all japanese people? I see it on the ladder on almost all pokemon that can learn it.

 

[BWong]

Is it me or is rock tomb as a move suddenly spammed by all japanese people? I see it on the ladder on almost all pokemon that can learn it.

I'm seeing it more and more also. Things like Garchomp which I'm accustomed to use stone edge are now running rock tomb.

 

[BWong]

What's everyone's take on alternative play styles in 3v3? We all Know hyper offensive, stall, and balance can work on the battle spot, but has anyone noticed how well other play styles work?

I've been watching some of the higher ranked players that share their videos on the global link. One of the top American players was using a trick room Slowbro to great effect. His entire team looked like a generic Hyper offensive team, but there was a Slowbro. From what I saw I noticed a Mega Kangaskhan, Tyranitar, and Talonflame. He led with Slowbro, got up a trick room and scalded things to burn them. Swapped out and healed up with regenerator, went into one of the others and would come back at a later time to set it up again. It was amazing how unprepared most people were for TR, especially if you don't immediately see it on team preview.

Next a play style close to my heart: Baton pass. Ever since the hub bub over DeNiSsSs dominating the ladder and the eventual ban of Baton Pass, I've been studying how I could incorporate it into 3v3. I've had some success as a lot of people are completely unprepared, but then I lose to things like Perish Song Mega Gengar, speed boost Blaziken, Mega Kang (Stuff DeNiSsSs never had to deal with due to it all being banned to Ubers). Also Unlike in 6v6 a single crit will lose games for you. I've lost many a game that were "In the bag" due to an untimely crit. Another problem I'm having is that BP works well with 6 Pokemon because you have options to pass into. Do I need to boost defense or special defense? Can I get a Quiver dance in before BPing to the next person. Sylveon resists Tyranitar, so I can go into her and setup while my opponent switches out. All of that isn't an option when you only have 3 Pokemon. You are forced to choose three depending on what you see in team preview and if you choose wrong you are hosed.

I got wrecked by a Volt turn team also. Landorus-T and Rotom-W and the constant intimidate spam ruined me. Also didn't help that I didn't have an ice or grass move, and my mega was mega Gyarados. The Landorus was Choice scarf and I'd assume the Rotom was Choice Specs with Trick also. I really wonder what his sweeper was.

Weather hasn't been that big of a factor, and I haven't run into a dedicated rain team in forever. Sand+Excadrill are the only ones I have seen a lot of. Every once in a while I see a Ninetails or an Abomasnow, but they aren't dedicated weather teams. I wonder if a swift swim Critdra would work in this metagame where you only need 3-5 turns of weather to be effective.

 

[freekhoorn]

Volt turn teams are very viable in the 3vs3 competition. It gives a lot of momentum wich is often crucial. I actually have only seen a trick room one or twice and wasnt very impressed. As with stealth rocks, the turn that you need to setup trick room can be better used for damage or other setup moves imo. I have also taught about the critdra and i think it can be very good actually. It can have sniper and has moves with a high critical hit ratio and if it uses focus energy and has focus lens it has an almost guaranteed critical hit.

I dont know if bulky offense can be named a new playstyle, but that works good too imo. Pokemon who doesnt necessarily have to be superfast cause they can take a hit and deal one too. In this metagame switching is very important because you have often onely one pokemon that can really deal with one of the opponent and i think bulky offense is therefore a good option.

 

[ethan06]

Agree with all of the above. In such an offensive and matchup-dependant format, it's really beneficial to have something in the wings that can sponge a wide range of emergency hits if you end up in a bad matchup (which happens extremely often). These Pokémon also benefit from recovery and decent offensive stats that they can use to retaliate. A good example is Slowbro, which while not much an offensive monster is definitely a defensive one, and has tools like Slack Off and Regenerator to repeatedly take hits. Aegislash is another that, while lacking recovery, can take plenty of strong hits and fire off nuke Shadow Balls. Azumarill has strong STAB priority and decent bulk. As far as the meta is concerned, frailer things are only relevant if they have the power and depth of coverage to be able to KO relevant threats - Pokémon like LO Greninja and Scarf Nidoking. Priority counts as speed, so Sash Bisharp is good if you have the necessary luck and brainpower for Sucker Punch mindgames - or you can just go for Talonflame or Mega Pinsir and spam Brave Bird and Quick Attack.

 

[BWong]

What took me by surprise watching the Trick Room Slowbro was that his entire team looked nothing like your typical trick room team. Usually I see Aggron, Conkeldurr, Aegislash, Heracross etc on trick rooms previews. This would let me know what was coming. This guy disguised it and it worked out extremely well.

The thing that irks me about CritDra is his speed. It's so middle of the road that without swift swim he isn't going to be doing much. If you lack sniper you don't have enough power. Draco meteor has a tendency to miss when you need it most. Also the whole fairy being immune to dragon makes it less than desirable.

While I agree that Bulky offense is the newest and most popular play style for Gen VI, I don't think that it completely overshadows some of the other play styles. Being able to sponge a hit is great, but you also need to be able to do something in return. A lot of those Pokemon mentioned lack coverage moves. They lack speed also. I'd much rather run TR and have four turns of a fast, bulky, strong Pokemon or run a full on stall team. Bulky offense just seems soooo... lack luster. The only BO Pokemon I really liked was bulky Charizard X.

 

[freekhoorn]

Its true that not all the bulky offensive pokemon have no good coverage but with trick room thats only worse cause you miss another move slot. Mega ampharos is one who doesnt lack btw. It has 90 105 110 defenses and an insane 165 special attack. Mine has thunderbolt dragon pulse focus blast and power gem.

Your true about critdra, it has one-ability-slot-syndrome lol. And its also an interesting fact how you can hide your playstyle or strategy like the way with that slowbro and his teammates. This part of strategy is underlighted.

 

[BWong]

Your true about critdra, it has one-ability-slot-syndrome lol. And its also an interesting fact how you can hide your playstyle or strategy like the way with that slowbro and his teammates. This part of strategy is underlighted.

I can't emphasize that last part enough. Using baton pass has show me that when you tip your hand you are at a disadvantage. Unfortunately for me Scolipede is so damn good at setting up the critical speed boosts that I have to run him and he just screams baton pass.

 

[freekhoorn]

I can't emphasize that last part enough. Using baton pass has show me that when you tip your hand you are at a disadvantage. Unfortunately for me Scolipede is so damn good at setting up the critical speed boosts that I have to run him and he just screams baton pass.

Why is scolipede the best one for baton passing speed boost? Blaziken has speed boost and baton pass too.

 

[EnGarde]

Why is scolipede the best one for baton passing speed boost? Blaziken has speed boost and baton pass too.

Blaziken has terrible defenses and no way to boost defense. Scoli is much better.

BWong have you tried focusing on a semi-pass team? Scoli is pretty one dimensional: everyone knows it's going to try BPing something to something, so you could try to capitalize on your opponent's prediction?

 

[Not2good]

Blaziken has terrible defenses and no way to boost defense. Scoli is much better.

BWong have you tried focusing on a semi-pass team? Scoli is pretty one dimensional: everyone knows it's going to try BPing something to something, so you could try to capitalize on your opponent's prediction?

Blaziken can pass defense boost by using bulk up

 

[cayZ5]

Rock tomb has actually been higher in usage on at least Garchomp for the last month. It is better than stone edge in a lot of situations for battle spot. Higher accuracy than stone edge, and the speed drop makes it really good at crippling on the switch. The extra power rock slide provides is not needed because of the speed drop from rock tomb, and talonflame and charizard will die to either move.

an example
YD2W-WWWW-WWW9-XG9F

 

[BWong]

Blaziken has terrible defenses and no way to boost defense. Scoli is much better.

BWong have you tried focusing on a semi-pass team? Scoli is pretty one dimensional: everyone knows it's going to try BPing something to something, so you could try to capitalize on your opponent's prediction?

Define Semi-pass? Like Scolipede with BP, Iron defense, EQ and megahorn?

Blaziken can pass defense boost by using bulk up

Bulk up takes two turns when Iron defense takes one. I don't need the Attack boosts either.

 

[EnGarde]

Define Semi-pass? Like Scolipede with BP, Iron defense, EQ and megahorn?


Bulk up takes two turns when Iron defense takes one. I don't need the Attack boosts either.

Semi-pass, like a team that's only half built for baton pass, and half filled with stuff that challenges BP's counters (or stuff to pass to). Singles isn't my metagame, but the times I've battled there I haven't seen whirlwind, so I'd say focus more on the scoli and espeon side of the table, with less emphasis on smeargle (for ingrain). Then, you can bring 4 pokemon that can benefit from having scoli and espeon as teammates, and can pick 1 of those 4 depending on what your opponent has in team preview.

I would imagine the things that counter scoli are the biggest threats to a BP team, simply because the things that counter scoli in particular counter a lot of what else a full BP team has in general.

EDIT: Wow, the original post was a bit non-coherent. Edited to fix.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Rock tomb has actually been higher in usage on at least Garchomp for the last month. It is better than stone edge in a lot of situations for battle spot. Higher accuracy than stone edge, and the speed drop makes it really good at crippling on the switch. The extra power rock slide provides is not needed because of the speed drop from rock tomb, and talonflame and charizard will die to either move.

an example
YD2W-WWWW-WWW9-XG9F

I've been seeing this a lot lately, in rotation as well. My guess is that for the situations where you need a rock-type move (other than Rock Slide's huge utility in doubles), you're usually facing a Talonflame or Charizard anyway. You don't need the extra power and the 100% accuracy is nice.

 

[Hulavuta]

I've been seeing a lot of Rock Tombs on the ladder too, although it doesn't matter too much to me since Skarmory still takes pretty much nothing from it.

You don't need the extra power and the 100% accuracy is nice.

According to Bulbapedia it's only 95% accuracy, but that is still pretty damn reliable (for some reason 95% hits way more often than 90% does...). I want to think that the Speed-lowering effect also has something to do with it, but almost every Pokemon with high speed can't really switch into anything Garchomp uses, and anything that can switch into Garchomp is going to be slower than it anyway. I can't say I'm not happy that people are choosing their moves based on reliability though.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

According to Bulbapedia it's only 95% accuracy, but that is still pretty damn reliable (for some reason 95% hits way more often than 90% does...).

Ah, okay. Still, missing 1 in 20 times is a hell of a lot better than missing 1 in 10.

 

[BWong]

Semi-pass, like a team that's only half built for baton pass, and half filled with stuff that challenges BP's counters (or stuff to pass to). Singles isn't my metagame, but the times I've battled there I haven't seen whirlwind, so I'd say focus more on the scoli and espeon side of the table, with less emphasis on smeargle (for ingrain). Then, you can bring 4 pokemon that can benefit from having scoli and espeon as teammates, and can pick 1 of those 4 depending on what your opponent has in team preview.

I would imagine the things that counter scoli are the biggest threats to a BP team, simply because the things that counter scoli in particular counter a lot of what else a full BP team has in general.

EDIT: Wow, the original post was a bit non-coherent. Edited to fix.

That is kinda what I have been doing. I have pretty much two separate 3-man teams. One is a quick pass Scolipede with two receivers (Whom are counters to what I have trouble with in BP) and the other team is a Geomancy Smeargle BPing to Espeon. I usually go with the Smeargle/Espeon team unless I see a certain 4 or 5 specific Pokemon. Talonflame is a huge problem for me.