Dudedude! I agree. Marshadow & Mimikyu are both my fav gen 7 pokemon. Also, this gen gave us a lot of amazing ghost pokemons!
A N G E R Y
In all seriousness, this is my favorite Pokemon so far in S&M right next to Mimikyu (and both of them are cute Ghost types <3).
I just wish it got Swords Dance and U-Turn, but this is already looking to be a phenomenal Pokemon.
- Ghost/Fighting is horrifyingly-good coverage and has great STABs in its sig move Spectral Thief, Close Combat, Drain Punch and priority Shadow Sneak
- Speaking of Shadow Sneak, it gets Technician-boosted, along with Rock Tomb and Hidden Powers on mixed lure sets such as HP Ice for Lando-T
- its Z move is one of the strongest in the game
- great Speed that naturally speed ties with Weavile and takes neutral damage from Knock Off
- very workable Attack stat of 125
- phenomenal coverage with elemental punches, Rock Tomb, Sucker Punch (not as good as Shadow Sneak, but it's nice to have, I guess) and Poison Jab.
- It can Pursuit-trap.
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Marshadow Discussion
- Thread starter Nexus
- Start date
This seems like the 2nd time in a row that GF gave us a highly requested dual Ghost-typing under the form of a completely broken Pokemon. Expect an equally busted Ghost/Normal type in gen 8
In all seriousness, Band Marshadow is life:
Marshadow @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Pursuit / Ice Punch
I don't see this not dominating the tier Aegislash-style. It's just too good.
NoCheese Edit: Removing ban speculation
In all seriousness, Band Marshadow is life:
Marshadow @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Pursuit / Ice Punch
I don't see this not dominating the tier Aegislash-style. It's just too good.
NoCheese Edit: Removing ban speculation
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Its not as good as Aegislash has been. Marshadow only has 600 BST. I hope it will remain in the tier.
Something I noticed is that, while base 125 Speed is already great on its own, it happens to outspeed practically every non-Scarfed Pokemon that has STAB on a type it's weak to. Deoxys (except Defense), (Mega) Alakazam and Mega Gengar are the only ones I can think of.
And all of them are very vulnerable to Shadow Sneak.
And all of them are very vulnerable to Shadow Sneak.
Mega Lopunny (Scrappy), (Mega) Aerodactyl, Talonflame (doesn't need Gale Wings since 126>125) and Crobat as well.
Of which I noticed that, with the obvious exception of Lopunny (which can't switch in freely anyways because Close Combat), they are all at least 2HKOed by Life Orb Shadow Sneak after SR.
This thing's gonna be very hard to even check.
According to the Damage Calculator...
Marshadow @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Hidden Power Ice
This set has the chance at least 2HKO the entire ORAS OU metagame (except defensive Mega Venusaur, and there are of course some 2HKOes that are really rare, e.g. Suicune) after rocks.
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Basically impossible to Revenge Kill without STAB Flying or Fairy (which I can only think of M-Aero & LO Tapu Koko). Similar offense capability as Terrakion, but with Technician-boosted Shadow Sneak and way more faster. 2HKO the entire OU meta game with Choice Band after SR (252/252+ Mega Venu is the only thing cannot be 2HKOed after SR, but it cant do anything back). Taking neutral from Sucker Punch/ Pursuit, decent bulk and doesn't weak to any form of priority (no more Talonflame in Gen7 & Marshadow has the fastest Shadow Sneak anyways) are just cheese on the cake.
P/s: I hope I'm wrong cuz I really like this thing, maybe it will have a shot in OU.
NoCheese Edit: Removing ban speculation
P/s: I hope I'm wrong cuz I really like this thing, maybe it will have a shot in OU.
NoCheese Edit: Removing ban speculation
Last edited by a moderator:
6ft Torbjorn
formerly JoycapJoshST
Remember Force Palm is also good alongside Technician. Also:
Also - Technician (while having good synergy with it's movepool), isn't as dishonest as, say, Shaymin-S and SG Seed Flare + Air Slash / Mega Blaziken etc.. I mean... look at Mega Gallade - and how Inner Focus, while FAR from detrimental, could have been a lot more.
Oh and this thing get's crippled by burn. There's that I guess.
IDK - I can see it being a very good blanket check in OU (similar to Lando-T), and Fighting/Ghost STAB, while amazing, is mostly neutral without coverage. See here:
Also - Technician (while having good synergy with it's movepool), isn't as dishonest as, say, Shaymin-S and SG Seed Flare + Air Slash / Mega Blaziken etc.. I mean... look at Mega Gallade - and how Inner Focus, while FAR from detrimental, could have been a lot more.
Oh and this thing get's crippled by burn. There's that I guess.
Why HP Ice when you have Ice Punch?
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Hp Ice is for physically defensive Landorus and Garchomp. It also gets the technician boost while not being affected by intimidate and rough skin.
Edit: while technician force palm is nice close combat out damages it.
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6ft Torbjorn
formerly JoycapJoshST
I see. Stop's this thing from demolishing the Meta as easily.
Walls such as Skarmory/Scizor/Mega Venasur can deal with this thing quite easily by the looks of things, bar Acrobatics / Fire Punch.
EDIT: some calcs:
252+ Atk Marshadow Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Mega Venusaur: 180-214 (49.5 - 58.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Marshadow Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 102-120 (30.5 - 35.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
I doubt Attack+ nature will even be run tbh. Considering the likes of Talonflame/Crobat/Mega Aero/Mega Lopp' being able to RVK/check you.
In fact - the universal change to megas might be able to keep this thing balanced.
See:
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Hasn't stopped terrakion, infernape and other fighting types from using it.
To be honest I was expecting marshadow to be based on a sea monster not this cute little ghost. It's got a great typing, a great Ability in technician, a good movepool to abuse it's typing and ability and great stats. I honestly can't wait to try out marshadow. I just hope GF doesn't release the NA event near the end of the gen like they did with volcanion.
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Enter the pokemon that has surpassed Dialga as my personal favorite. And mascot.
I do not believe that the megas will balance it since not that many can outsped and those who can ourspeed are not to viable or need some deditcated support for it shortcoming. That give me the inpression it going to centralize the meta like another ghost that shall not be named
6ft Torbjorn
formerly JoycapJoshST
Well, we'll just have to see
Am I crazy or, after the change to megas, Mega Lopunny revenges this thing pretty hard, does it not?
6ft Torbjorn
formerly JoycapJoshST
Assuming it can switch in. But yeah, it's a good check.
I don't think it needs repeating, but holy shit @ this thing's Physical coverage! They could have easily just stopped at Ghost and Fighting coverage and it'd be pretty good (think Keldeo width of coverage, with some good utility moves), but this thing gets the Elemental Punches, Stone Edge, Sucker Punch, Poison Jab, and acrobatics! The inclusion of Will-O-Wisp is making me think of some sort of defensive set could be a cool gimmick like Infernape, but without Slack Off. Rest-Talk with Spectral Thief/Wisp/Rest/Sleep Talk? Chesto-rest possibly? I mean for a Poke this offensive its defenses are pretty ok.
Yeah. This thing is definitely top tier, but I don't think it's as insane as everyone is making it out to be. There are a good number of things that Check, counter, wall, or revenge it in the current meta.
JoycapJoshST How about actually doing calcs with a boosting item since that's what Marshmellow-kun's gonna hold the majority of the time.
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 185-218 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Spectral vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Mega Venusaur: 133-156 (36.6 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 175-207 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
WITHOUT needing a boosting move, Marshadow already does heaps of damage to physical walls that they can't switch in safely. And this is JUST with Life Orb and not accounting for extra Spikes or Stealth Rock damage; if it's holding a Choice Band (ala Terrakion), there's no way any frailer's gonna take more than a hit or two. Granted, you might have found a slight solution in Mega Venusuar, but that's not used nearly enough on most team archetypes outside of balance (stall prefers other megas like Sableye, offense prefers something faster like Lopunny or Charizard).
Yes, it's revenge killable especially by Scarf Keldeo and Mega Lops, but neither of them can switch in safely and unlike Terrakion its typing saves it from being sniped at -1 by random Ground-, Steel-, and Water-type attacks common on other revenge killers. Like Terrakion, Marshadow doesn't actually give many craps about coverage because CC annihilates most switch-ins while Spectral Thief is generally powerful enough. Unless you have huge scizor phobia screw fire coverage since Close Combat's hitting most neutral steels harder.
Overall it's almost like Mega Lucario in that its typing isn't easily exploitable, has accurate STABs which offer good coverage, doesn't need setup to blow teams off the earth, and its Speed and natural power is good enough to overwhelm most teams even with its share of revenge killers. If that doesn't at least ring a few warning bells I don't know what will.
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory: 185-218 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Spectral vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Mega Venusaur: 133-156 (36.6 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 175-207 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
WITHOUT needing a boosting move, Marshadow already does heaps of damage to physical walls that they can't switch in safely. And this is JUST with Life Orb and not accounting for extra Spikes or Stealth Rock damage; if it's holding a Choice Band (ala Terrakion), there's no way any frailer's gonna take more than a hit or two. Granted, you might have found a slight solution in Mega Venusuar, but that's not used nearly enough on most team archetypes outside of balance (stall prefers other megas like Sableye, offense prefers something faster like Lopunny or Charizard).
Yes, it's revenge killable especially by Scarf Keldeo and Mega Lops, but neither of them can switch in safely and unlike Terrakion its typing saves it from being sniped at -1 by random Ground-, Steel-, and Water-type attacks common on other revenge killers. Like Terrakion, Marshadow doesn't actually give many craps about coverage because CC annihilates most switch-ins while Spectral Thief is generally powerful enough. Unless you have huge scizor phobia screw fire coverage since Close Combat's hitting most neutral steels harder.
Overall it's almost like Mega Lucario in that its typing isn't easily exploitable, has accurate STABs which offer good coverage, doesn't need setup to blow teams off the earth, and its Speed and natural power is good enough to overwhelm most teams even with its share of revenge killers. If that doesn't at least ring a few warning bells I don't know what will.
Everybody seems to believe at this point, with good reason, that Necrozma is the third cover legend. But now that I think about it, wasn't the trademark for Marshadow revealed at the same time as the Solgaleo and Lunala trademarks? Wouldn't they only trademark the names of cover legends? So doesn't that mean Marshadow's the third cover legend? Correct me if I'm wrong about this.
Marshadow is event exclusive and can't be obtained ingame. Its flavor text shows no connection to Solgaleo and Lunala at all, unlike Necrozma, which is on the same level of psuedo-Ultra-Beat-ness as they are. It also shares the Psychic type with them.