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DotA
- Thread starter Calciphoce
- Start date
Ugh...I played DotA back when Eul was making it and it was still in DX (I remember EX and DX but not which came first). I've been through it all and I really don't much like where it's currently heading.
There are several balance issues that came up recently: Huskar got the stacking on Berzerker Blood removed, making him unstoppable lategame even with just a Vanguard and a heart. Nerubian Assassin's new Mana Burn is fricking ridiculous. Late-game, it can hit for ~450-500 on int heroes, meaning their already limited contribution to the late game is near nullified. The fade time on Brood's webs also appears to be wonky...it can walk halfway down a lane outside a web while invis, yet the initial fade time is ~2 sec. Spiritbreaker has always been just stupid...an essentially 3 second bash thanks to pushback mechanics plus ridiculous movespeed and extra damage and 2 stun attacks.
On top of that some heroes drastically need buffs: Warlock is completely useless. His ult is the only thing he has going for him and it's on a huge CD. He can act as an early/mid harasser and healer, but isn't as good as Enchant at that. Upheval would be good if it weren't channeled, and Fatal Bonds does so little it hardly matters. Slow Speed, complete reliance on items for any sort of addition to the team, and you have an all around weak hero.
Also, Dark Seer getting nerfed would be terrible...they already hurt is ult a ton by not letting you copy friendlies, he's fine right now, he doesn't need a nerf.
More added later, got class.
There are several balance issues that came up recently: Huskar got the stacking on Berzerker Blood removed, making him unstoppable lategame even with just a Vanguard and a heart. Nerubian Assassin's new Mana Burn is fricking ridiculous. Late-game, it can hit for ~450-500 on int heroes, meaning their already limited contribution to the late game is near nullified. The fade time on Brood's webs also appears to be wonky...it can walk halfway down a lane outside a web while invis, yet the initial fade time is ~2 sec. Spiritbreaker has always been just stupid...an essentially 3 second bash thanks to pushback mechanics plus ridiculous movespeed and extra damage and 2 stun attacks.
On top of that some heroes drastically need buffs: Warlock is completely useless. His ult is the only thing he has going for him and it's on a huge CD. He can act as an early/mid harasser and healer, but isn't as good as Enchant at that. Upheval would be good if it weren't channeled, and Fatal Bonds does so little it hardly matters. Slow Speed, complete reliance on items for any sort of addition to the team, and you have an all around weak hero.
Also, Dark Seer getting nerfed would be terrible...they already hurt is ult a ton by not letting you copy friendlies, he's fine right now, he doesn't need a nerf.
More added later, got class.
DS is actually still commonly banned in competitive games, and for good reason.
You either have no idea what you're talking about or have never played anyone who doesn't just try to faceroll the latter 2 characters.
The warlock is outclassed in every job it can possibly do, and it's unique combination doesn't give it any advantage over the others.
RE: PA, a lot of it has to do with the addition and/or buffing of items. Newer, better items have caused the ult to scale above what it used to be...it's getting there, but relatively low HP kind of keeps it in balance, but the new dagger attack is a bit over the top IMO.
Warlock is an amazing hero, though underused. Huskar and SB are near useless. PA is a pubstomp hero. Period.
DS is still an amazing hero and anyone who says otherwise clearly doesn't know how powerful vacuum is for team fights.
Also, "Nightcrawler" is the name of the skill, not the hero.
DS is still an amazing hero and anyone who says otherwise clearly doesn't know how powerful vacuum is for team fights.
Also, "Nightcrawler" is the name of the skill, not the hero.
ES and BM are picked fairly often. TB however I don't consider a 'good' hero, he's below average IMO.
Funny how right as I posted this I played a game that all 3 were in. -__-
And really? Wasn't there a time when he was considered imba? I've always been pretty good with the Soul Keeper. I love his ulti. :]
The only recent direct nerf to Soul Keeper iirc was the reduction of his movespeed when not transformed, but Icefrog has been trying to move the game towards shorter matches rather than longer, and Soul Keeper is a very, very hard carry, so reduction of the game time means his limited time to shine is really reduced.
Anyways, I've been playing HoN lately and it really shows how outdated WCIII is. Simple things like
- a less laggy server
- an easy way to join matches friends are in
- the ability to reconnect after drops
- voice chat support
- recorded statistics and rankings
- the ability do to some things that WCIII's engine wouldn't allow, like stacking orbs
really add a lot even if the core game is virtually unchanged. Actually, HoN's core gameplay might even be a little worse, as right now it has something like 2/3 of the heroes that DotA does, and that's the only major difference (pretty much everything else is copy/pasted right from DotA). I have yet to try out the alternate maps but they sound pretty interesting as well.
Shorter version: if you get a chance to try the HoN beta, do so, it's definitely worth checking out.
Anyways, I've been playing HoN lately and it really shows how outdated WCIII is. Simple things like
- a less laggy server
- an easy way to join matches friends are in
- the ability to reconnect after drops
- voice chat support
- recorded statistics and rankings
- the ability do to some things that WCIII's engine wouldn't allow, like stacking orbs
really add a lot even if the core game is virtually unchanged. Actually, HoN's core gameplay might even be a little worse, as right now it has something like 2/3 of the heroes that DotA does, and that's the only major difference (pretty much everything else is copy/pasted right from DotA). I have yet to try out the alternate maps but they sound pretty interesting as well.
Shorter version: if you get a chance to try the HoN beta, do so, it's definitely worth checking out.
well yeah, PA is imba in pubs (due to the general lack of teamplay there), not much can kill her after she gets BFury, PT, some lifesteal and BKB, which can be farmed up in less than 30 mins, especially if her team gets some Observer Wards (uncommon in pubs, but still) to prevent her being ganked (and even if not, phantom strike can make her escape a lot from ganks).
just try to do your best to continuously gank her in the first 15-20 mins to delay her BFury as much as possible, and push fast (leavers in pubs and switch benefit hard carries like PA though, due to the opposite team not being able to finish the game fast)
Also back when I played clan wars, ES was banned or picked in every game, so I'd say he's used quite a lot (probably less in pubs where they will sometimes pick even 5 agility heroes per team anyway...).
Err Fishin how do you get into HoN? They say it's Closed Beta for now which means i can't register.
Also, for those who are wondering why good heroes like ES, Warlock etc are not being picked, you're probably playing too much pubs (Which then again, is the style most commonly accessable by the majority). In the tourneys, several pubstomp heroes are not picked at all, several heroes are picked which are not seen in pubs at all.
Also, for those who are wondering why good heroes like ES, Warlock etc are not being picked, you're probably playing too much pubs (Which then again, is the style most commonly accessable by the majority). In the tourneys, several pubstomp heroes are not picked at all, several heroes are picked which are not seen in pubs at all.
Like you said, its closed, it was open a while ago and you could register back then, I think you have to wait now (or get a beta key somehow). Luckily, I got an account by a friend.
I have to say, HoN rules ;D.
This is from the HoN facebook page, so you might want to check it out:
I actually started with some DotA alone with a friend last weekend. Was quite fun when we found us heroes we were "good" with (I picked Rexxar and he took Earthshaker, we played 6.35b). But regarding that, which heroes should I try out as a beginner? I've tried a good share of sentinels heroes, and only ones I liked was Rexxar, Slayer and Warlord. And what items should I concentrate when I try Agi and Int-based heroes? Str-based I have a somewhat good idea of, but Agi and Int I get lost when I try to look for good items. Thanks for help in advance :)
Yeah. All I really play are pubs. I don't really play in tourney or clan matches cause I probably wouldn't be able to keep up....
A hero succeeding in a pub game means nothing. Literally anything can happen in a pub game.
Read the previous pages in this thread. Newbie friendly heroes are discussed at length. One hero I can quickly mention, though, is Skeleton King, as he has only one active spell, and has a "get out of fuck up free" card with his ultimate (revive). You should definitely play all 95 heroes though!
As for items, it really, really depends on the hero. No hero build is universal. There are many that work on quite a few heroes (like BracerX2, Str Treads, Heart), but there is no finite way of saying what to get on all Str, Agi, or Int heroes. Every hero is simply too unique. And that's what makes DotA great. :)
However, some builds that do work well on many Agi heroes are Wraith BandX2, Agi Treads, Butterfly. For int, Null TalismanX2, Boots of Travel, Guinsoo's Scythe of Vice is a good build. See a similarity? All Str heroes love Heart of Tarrasque (most heroes do), Agi heroes like Butterfly (it gives them everything they need in Attack Speed, Damage, Dodge, and Agility), and Int heroes drool over Guinsoo (the massive mana regen and long disable). I would highly suggest reading some guides for specific hero questions though. Guides such as the ones on Playdota.com.
Either way it's good to have another DotA player here on Smogon! Good luck to you in your future games. :)
Any reason you played an ancient version...? Anyway, Rexxar and Earthshaker are both very difficult heroes to use to their fullest potential, as BM must constantly micro summons while ES has to know exactly when and where to fissure and echo.
Read the previous pages in this thread. Newbie friendly heroes are discussed at length. One hero I can quickly mention, though, is Skeleton King, as he has only one active spell, and has a "get out of fuck up free" card with his ultimate (revive). You should definitely play all 95 heroes though!
As for items, it really, really depends on the hero. No hero build is universal. There are many that work on quite a few heroes (like BracerX2, Str Treads, Heart), but there is no finite way of saying what to get on all Str, Agi, or Int heroes. Every hero is simply too unique. And that's what makes DotA great. :)
However, some builds that do work well on many Agi heroes are Wraith BandX2, Agi Treads, Butterfly. For int, Null TalismanX2, Boots of Travel, Guinsoo's Scythe of Vice is a good build. See a similarity? All Str heroes love Heart of Tarrasque (most heroes do), Agi heroes like Butterfly (it gives them everything they need in Attack Speed, Damage, Dodge, and Agility), and Int heroes drool over Guinsoo (the massive mana regen and long disable). I would highly suggest reading some guides for specific hero questions though. Guides such as the ones on Playdota.com.
Either way it's good to have another DotA player here on Smogon! Good luck to you in your future games. :)
Lich is really easy to play, it's basically just "Frost Nova on heroes, Chain Frost on groups of enemy heroes, Ritual when you need mana". Bone Fletcher is pretty easy to use and nearly impossible to die with, which is handy when you're just starting out. Melee heroes are generally more difficult to play then ranged heroes since you need to have the ability to judge whether or not it's safe to run in and attack, but Skeleton King is one of the easier ones since he has only one spell. Tidehunter is also pretty simple.
A big part of the game, though, is knowing pretty much all the heroes and a rough idea of what spells they have, and do that it's best to just play with different heroes as much as possible. Heroes to avoid, though, would be Geomancer, Holy Knight, and Invoker. Geomancer and Holy Knight both require a lot of micromanagement, and to play Invoker well you have to memorize several combinations of different abilities.
As far as items for int heroes go, Agh Scepter is a solid choice for a lot of the heroes that can make use of it, it's easy to build, gives you more health, and usually gives you a straight damage boost to your ultimate, which is always useful. Guinsoo's Scythe aka Sheepstick is also really good for any intelligence hero since it solves all mana problems and gives you an extremely valuable disable, but it's harder to build and unlike with Scepter you've got an extra spell that you need to manually cast.
For agility heroes, there's a huge number of choices. Diffusal is great on image heroes or those that don't have an orb but really want a slow like Sceptre or Riki, as you get both a useful orb effect and the ability to cast a slow all in one. Deso adds a lot of damage for the gold if you don't have an orb already, Butterfly doesn't give you as much pure damage as Desolator or Buriza but provides more attack speed and evasion, Black King Bar prevents you from being disabled/nuked to death...etc.
For strength heroes, Heart is good on most. Ones that do a lot of direct combat like Slardar or Dragon Knight do well with Armlet, Shiva's Guard is good on ones that cast use a lot of spells. Blink Dagger requires some thought to use but it's almost essential for a couple strength heroes like Axe and Magnataur. Do ask your allies for recommendations, though.
For HoN, you either have to procure a beta key somehow (they hold giveaways occasionally), or pay thirty dollars for an official account, which of course means you get to continue playing the game once it's officially released. Alternately they're supposed to be switching to open beta sometime soon so you could just wait for that.
No he's not. Clinkz is probably one of (if not the) weakest carry heroes in the game. His attack animation is attrocious, and even with windwalk, he will die quite a bit thanks to having little to no HP. In general, most INT heroes are fairly easy to play (namely Warlock and Zeus).
He's talking about starting off in pubs. Warlock (again) is shit, especially in pubs. Zeus is pretty easy to play, LoA is easy as hell to play as you basically have an extra life, Bloodseeker is easy to play in Pubs...so damn easy I literally facerolled an entire pub with it. (Smashed my head into the keyboard after I hit rupture and auto-attack).
That said, the difference between a good pub or solid group of friends and a tournament game is way overblown by tournament players. I played tourney for a while, but got bored with the consistent time investment (and it was cutting into my then-WoW time.)
Warlock is good, and is very easy for beginners; his base damage along with his animation allows for great creeping/laning ability and Shadow Word makes WL a pain to kill. And no matter what you say, Clinkz isn't easy (though he has a greater chance at living since pubs only play carry heroes, but that's about it).