Zapdos

[alphatron]

Comparing Zapdos to Raikou is a mistake, yes. But wouldn't raikou be able to just outspeed and ohko non scarfed landorus with hp ice?

I don't know, rain abuser raikou with thunder, aura sphere, weather ball, and hp grass seems legit to me. Give it a choice scarf and go to town, rash nature or not. CMRaikou doesn't work right now though, you're right about that.

Offensive OU Zapdos is a pokemon I'm having a hard time seeing. Landorus outspeeds by one point. Then there's terrakion, etc. You could go the agility route, I suppose. And if you're using the Zapdos from Pokemon XD/Pokegen, you could slap baton pass on to him so that he can pass the boosts when things get hairy.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

Comparing Zapdos to Raikou is a mistake, yes. But wouldn't raikou be able to just outspeed and ohko non scarfed landorus with hp ice?

But then it doesn't have Aura Sphere, which means it can't do too much to bulky T-tar and other specially bulky pokemon.

 

[Je-Muzu]

Surely Sp.Defensive Zapdos is a good check to Tornudus-T, so he should have a new lease of life, and hopefully come back to OU, especially if Game Freak ever realase Lightingrod, because its a solid pokemon, it just a bit problematic that theres lots of ice and rock moves flying around atm.

 

[Temp V1]

Surely Sp.Defensive Zapdos is a good check to Tornudus-T, so he should have a new lease of life, and hopefully come back to OU, especially if Game Freak ever realase Lightingrod, because its a solid pokemon, it just a bit problematic that theres lots of ice and rock moves flying around atm.

Yeah a seriously specially defensive Zapdos would easily handle Tornadus-T, seeing as Hurricane deals 22.91 - 27.08% to 252/252+ Zapdos and HP-Ice only deals 35.41 - 42.18%. While in return the same Zapdos deals 90.3 - 107.02% with Thunderbolt, so after rocks thats a guaranteed OHKO. It would be nice as currently there is a serious lack of things that can reliably check/counter Tornadus-T. While that would be quite nice, Zapdos wouldn't really be doing to much else in the current metagame.

We have Thundurus-T, and to a lesser extent Genesect, as the primary Electric offensive mons (Thunderbolt on Genesect), and Zapdos isn't doing anything to win the popularity contest against either of them. As a special wall it functions the same as it always has, and it is effective, but there are other things out there that do it better.

In the current metagame Zapdos isn't really all that viable in OU, although I love it in UU and use it on most of my UU teams. Given that no one knows whats going to happen in the next few months in regard to Genesect and Thundurus-T/Tornadus-T its hard to have a final say in regards to Zapdos in OU. Once any suspect testing of those is finished Zapdos' place can be truly identified.

 

[Boorego]

Zapdos does seem to be ALOT better in BW2. Aside from being one of the few perfect tornadus-t counters in OU, he also makes a suprisingly good switch in to genesect, as zapdos only fears ice beam from him, oh and he still does wall the usual pests like gengar and whatnot.
In paticuliar the special defense set seems to match up very well against the average rain/sun team, zapdos is bulky enough to take thunders/un-stabed ice beams/a weather boosted hydro pump or fire blast and retaliate back with a strong electric attack (or a boosted heat wave in sun's case).
One perk about him that I absolutely love over some of the more traditional special walls like gastrodon is that he is not set up bait for hazard setters like ferrorthorn or skarmory thanks to his attacking abilities. While he still does have flaws(Stealth rock REALLY nerfs his walling abilities) and I doubt he's gonna go to OU until he gets lighting rod, SpDef Zapdos is quite a viable choice for a OU team.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Yeah SpDef Zapdos is the zapdos you should use if using it. Keep in mind zapdos has that nasty stealth rock weakness, and if you can't keep rocks off the floor, it doesn't matter how well it takes u-turns and hurricane's its going to get worn down. I do feel that Zapdos will get a new lease on life if / when lightning rod comes out, it checks and counters a ton of things. Fun fact, it also beats CM Jirachi and Venusaur! Why haven't you been released into greatness my old friend?

 

[Prinz]

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Roost
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Heat Wave / Toxic (without toxic spikes)


I used a lot this zapdos (in a BW1 rain stall) with toxic spikes and it works well. It can stall rotom-w's hydro pump for example lol. I suggest you to try this zapdos, it's very boring for opponents. However, special defensive zapdos is good in BW2 to check Tornadus-T

 

[Queen of Randoms]

That Zapdos cannot stall out Rotom-W well. Specs destroys you without SpDef investment, and with rain it's an OHKO. You fair decently against non-rain Hydro Pumps, but Scarf out-speeds and 2HKOs you so it makes a bad counter and shaky check. In the OU metagame, I think that only the SpDef set is really viable right now, as it fairs well against Tornadus-T which is difficult for many teams.

 

[bubbly]

Um...Pressure? Choiced Rotom are easy to stall out if they're locked into Hydro Pump. That said, if that's all you're using Zapdos for, it's inferior to SubRoost Kyurem, so make sure you need it as an extra check to Tornadus / Genesect / Scizor and so on.

 

[Queen of Randoms]

Yeah, that works for the SpDef set, not so much the one Alex posted when it's rain boosted or Specs (if both GG). When you come in (because Rotom-W isn't stupid and he's not going to stay in and keep Hydro Pumping when you bring Zapdos in on it fresh) on the Hydro Pump and you're taken down to the point where you cannot Sub and cannot Roost back enough health to live. Coming in on Scarf means you get out-sped and 2HKO'd, even out of rain iirc. Okay, you took 4 PP from Hydro Pump, but you lost Zapdos. Like you said, Kyurem does it much better. You want to run the SpDef set anyway to fair better against Tornadus-T, as that is Zapdos's main concern and niche that earns it a little spot in OU.

 

[WaterBomb]

I've found Zapdos to be a pretty good deterrent for Breloom on my UU-in-OU team, and Heat Wave is especially useful for taking care of those lovely 4x Fire week pokemon. The specially defensive set is what I use, with a spread of 248 HP/236 SpD/24 Spe and T-Bolt/Roost/Heat Wave/Toxic. I'm gonna test out the SubRoost set, most likely replacing Heat Wave or Toxic, but the set above has been quite useful. It lacks power though, and outside of the pokemon I listed it doesn't scare much else away.

 

[alexwolf]

When DW Zapdos is released, i expect SpD Zapdos to be running Roar, as with it you can phaze dangerous boosting special attackers such as CM Latias, CM Jirachi, QD Volcarona (which you wall in rain), Agility or SubNP Thundurus-T, NP Celebi, and even SubCM DW Raikou, all pokes that you wall.

SpD Lightingrod Zapdos will really find its place in rain teams, where it can beat so many dangerous mons for them (NP Celebi, Thundurus-T, CM Jirachi and CM Latias, Rain Volcarona, Thundurus-T).

Also i remember using a set like this in my DW rain team:

Zapdos @ Expert Belt
some HP / 252 SpA / some Speed
Nature: Modest
Ability: Lightningrod
- Thunder
- HP Fighting
- Substitute
- Roost

Good check to many threats, good bulk speed and power, and the ability to lure and destroy common threats to rain such as Ferrothorn and Ttar. It is a bit specialized i know, but it worked for my team.

 

[Azaleaf]

When DW Zapdos is released, i expect SpD Zapdos to be running Roar, as with it you can phaze dangerous boosting special attackers such as CM Latias, CM Jirachi, QD Volcarona (which you wall in rain), Agility or SubNP Thundurus-T, NP Celebi, and even SubCM DW Raikou, all pokes that you wall.

SpD Lightingrod Zapdos will really find its place in rain teams, where it can beat so many dangerous mons for them (NP Celebi, Thundurus-T, CM Jirachi and CM Latias, Rain Volcarona, Thundurus-T).

Also i remember using a set like this in my DW rain team:

Zapdos @ Expert Belt
some HP / 252 SpA / some Speed
Nature: Modest
Ability: Lightningrod
- Thunder
- HP Fighting
- Substitute
- Roost

Good check to many threats, good bulk speed and power, and the ability to lure and destroy common threats to rain such as Ferrothorn and Ttar. It is a bit specialized i know, but it worked for my team.

Seems odd to see e-belt with only 2 attacking moves.

 

[alexwolf]

Yeah i know. Iirc i used EB because i wanted to 2hko Ttar and Ferro without losing HP, so EB was my choice. I hardly remember anything about the set as i used it before 2 years or something...

 

[Milos]

i dont think zapdos has any business staying in on ttar, and if you want to take care of ferro i'd use heat wave>hp fighting any day of the week. you will lose to ttar most of the time, seeing as how hp fighting is a weak move to begin with, and the spD increase in sand isnt helping you either. ttar can swiftly ohko you with stone edge in return. expert belt is also pretty useless on that zapdos imo, the only things you will hit harder with thunder are things that would be OHKO'd or 2HKO'd anyway. if you want an offensive electric pokemon with an immunity to electric attacks you're better off with raikou or even jolt, seeing as how raikou can actually take on ttar and ferro with CM + aura sphere and it doesn't suffer from a SR weakness. also, assuming zapdos will be primary used a specially defensive check to things like tornadus/thunderus...leftovers is pretty much the only viable item.

a rain oriented zapdos:

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Lightningrod
252 HP/ 216 SpD/ 36 Spe
Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
-Thunder
-Substitute
-Roost
-Toxic

 

[alexwolf]

Actually this Zapdos beats any Ttar 1 on 1. HP Fighting 2hkoes SpD Ttar 75% of the time w/o SR, and always after so... And yeah of 'course Heat Wave is better for Ferro, but i wanted to hit both pokes with 1 move so HP Fighting was my choice. But anyway, i was using this thing 2 years ago, so i don't really remember if i was doing it right... Maybe i sucked and used a bad set, or maybe it was actually decent, or maybe i thought it was good because i owned noobs with it :D

 

[Milos]

2HKO'ing a pokemon who can OHKO you is not beating it one on one. assuming they are both at full health, or even if both have taken SR damage, you will always lose to ttar (unless stone edge misses, which it always happens to do at important times). but anyway, your set is from 2 years ago, so its most likely outdated and outclassed by sets from today (beating noobs is always fun though).

for the set i posted above, i would slash roar over toxic if you need something to help dispatch SubCMers like jirachi or latias. hidden power ice can also be used, although im not sure what move i would replace it with. gliscor hard walls any zapdos without hp ice...but hey, thats what we have the other 5 pokemon for right?

 

[tehy]

2HKO'ing a pokemon who can OHKO you is not beating it one on one. assuming they are both at full health, or even if both have taken SR damage, you will always lose to ttar (unless stone edge misses, which it always happens to do at important times). but anyway, your set is from 2 years ago, so its most likely outdated and outclassed by sets from today (beating noobs is always fun though).

for the set i posted above, i would slash roar over toxic if you need something to help dispatch SubCMers like jirachi or latias. hidden power ice can also be used, although im not sure what move i would replace it with. gliscor hard walls any zapdos without hp ice...but hey, thats what we have the other 5 pokemon for right?

But t-tar obviously switches in to zapdos, and zapdos can then 2hitko it on the switch-in, with the second attack coming after it switched in. Besides, outclassed? Those sets were available then too.

And since it can sub, it doesn't even need to predict all that hard. T-tar won't expect HP fighting, so it'll take a pretty large chunk out of him.

 

[Jimbon]

Yeah Milos, I ran the same set with a different EV spread back in DW. I believe the actual set was 240 HP / 148 SDef / 120 Spd to outspeed stuff like 16 Spe Manaphy and Jolly Breloom. The set itself is pretty incredible, in Rain you can easily break through Ferrothorn and other supposed Zapdos checks. The loss of Hidden Power [Ice] might be annoying for Gliscor, but in reality Gliscor isn't switching in unless it knows your whole moveset, as it really isn't doing anything to Zapdos otherwise. Roar is a cool option for CM Latias and such, but I use Specially Defensive Zapdos on my Sand semi stall team with Choice Band Tyranitar, so it's not like Latias is a problem.

Overall I'm just pretty stoked for Lightningrod Zapdos, it's gonna be a great asset for weatherless teams and has a lot of great resistances coupled with decent bulk. I would predict Specially Defensive to be the most commonly run Zapdos set, just because of how it deals with so many common mons (Thundurus-T, Tornadus-T, Genesect, Scizor, etc) but I imagine Offensive Lightningrod with Agility or something would still be viable as Zapdos already has good bulk to easily set up an Agility.

 

[Milos]

But t-tar obviously switches in to zapdos, and zapdos can then 2hitko it on the switch-in, with the second attack coming after it switched in. Besides, outclassed? Those sets were available then too.

And since it can sub, it doesn't even need to predict all that hard. T-tar won't expect HP fighting, so it'll take a pretty large chunk out of him.

since were speaking theoretically, do you think a ttar will stay in after getting hit with hp fighting (especially if it risks getting 2HKO'd) ? because i dont. once the secrets out that your zapdos has hp fighting it will become a lot easier to play around.

 

[alexwolf]

Yeah Jimbon imagine a Modest +1 SpA Zapdos with Life Orb and Thunder / Tbolt, HP Ice, Heat Wave / Roost / Baton Pass after an Agility... Pretty destructive but difficult to get the SpA boost.

And Milos yeah of 'course Ttar would switch out after he sees HP Figthing but i still will have made him lose half of it's life, which is super sweet. But anyway let's stop talking about a somewhat gimmick set that i used 2 years ago :D

 

[tehy]

since were speaking theoretically, do you think a ttar will stay in after getting hit with hp fighting (especially if it risks getting 2HKO'd) ? because i dont. once the secrets out that your zapdos has hp fighting it will become a lot easier to play around.

Since we'er speaking theoretically, do you think that a rain team doesn't like having a t-tar half-dead? (Especially if it risks 2hitkoing it) because i don't. Once the secret's out that zapdos has HP fighting it will become impossible to play around for a lot of sand teams because they don't carry something that can do something about it without taking good damage.

Also, why not just 3 attacks and agility, if you get the boost u can wreck shit up.

 

[Temp V1]

Also, why not just 3 attacks and agility, if you get the boost u can wreck shit up.

That could be an option, although as an offensive mon Zapdos is outclassed by quite a few things, as we know. The obvious one that first jumps to mind is Thundurus-T. Same typing, similar movepools, but although Thundurus-T has both higher speed and special attack, although it does loss out on bulk.
If you were running agility and three attacks you would probably be running a Modest natures, and either Leftovers/Expert Belt/Life Orb. The latter two there would be more beneficial, as even with a base 125 SATK, it doesn't have enough immediate power to be a real threat. Obviously Zapdos has a lot more bulk than Thundurus-T, which means it could get that set-up a lot more easily, however as far as offense goes I'd want Thundurus-T any day of the week. Granted theres a chance that by the time Lightningrod is released for Zapdos, Thundurus-T may no longer be running around in OU, but I doubt that.

If one was to look at the available coverage, so see if there was anything that perhaps set Zapdos apart from Thundurus-T, the first stop would be Heat Wave. Although Thundurus-T already has Focus Blast, so he wins there. In terms of coverage, they both have movepools that allow them to hit exactly the same things in almost exactly the same way. The one offensive niche I see Zapdos having over Thundurus-T is on a Gravity team, with Zap Cannon, but thats just a bit to situational for me.

Once Lightningrod is released it is fairly obvious that the specially defensive set will become a lot more common, and viable in OU, but as an offensive mon Zapdos is still just outclassed.

 

[alexwolf]

I don't think that DW Zapdos will be outclassed in the offensive side by Thundurus-T, because he has 3 things going for him: excellent bulk, reliable recovery and the ability to get a free SpA boost, which when coupled with Agility can be deadly.

So a 3 attacks + Roost LO Zapdos would be a very viable set when Lightningrod Zapdos gets released, as you get an awesome check to a ton of pokes, while also hitting hard with good coverage and having reliable recovery to offset LO and SR damage. I have in mind many balanced rain teams that would prefer this Zapdos over an all out attacker Thundurus-T for example. Zapdos's bulk and Roost really matter even when you play an offensive role.

 

[Temp V1]

I don't think that DW Zapdos will be outclassed in the offensive side by Thundurus-T, because he has 3 things going for him: excellent bulk, reliable recovery and the ability to get a free SpA boost, which when coupled with Agility can be deadly.

So a 3 attacks + Roost LO Zapdos would be a very viable set when Lightningrod Zapdos gets released, as you get an awesome check to a ton of pokes, while also hitting hard with good coverage and having reliable recovery to offset LO and SR damage. I have in mind many balanced rain teams that would prefer this Zapdos over an all out attacker Thundurus-T for example. Zapdos's bulk and Roost really matter even when you play an offensive role.

I do understand what you're saying, and it is true that thanks to its bulk and recovery Zapdos would be preferred for a Balanced rain team over Thundurus-T, however Thundurus-T isn't really at home on a Balanced team in the first place. I have seen a few Balanced rain teams with Thundurus-T, and some of them have been quite good, however it is definitely more suited to more offensively oriented teams. So by that its kind of hard to accurately compare the two in that situation. In what I was saying earlier, I didn't mean for it to sound like Zapdos could never be successful as an offensive mon, I just think that it will never be the best for its position. The problem with Zapdos as an offensive mon for really anything other than a Balanced or Stall team, is that its difficult to pick the set that would be most useful. For an offensive Zapdos on a Balanced team your best options are either; Roost and three attacks, or an Agility set.

As far as being outclassed by Thundurus-T, Zapdos will be outclassed in certain situations and on certain teams, while it will outclass Thundurus-T in other situations. I think if one wanted to run an offensive Zapdos it would be best suited on either a Balance or Stall team, as you said. Although in general I think for Zapdos to be viable in OU, its the specially defensive sets that really shine.