Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Antonius the Great]

Why is Galvantula so high? The thing is horrible, if you are so desperate for sticky web, use smeargle.

Why do people beat up on Galvantula? 3:
He brings an offensive presence with Compouneyes + Thunder, he takes out Magic Bouncers with STAB Bug Buzz, and he doesn't look like a painter having a bad day. Honestly I don't think he's high up for being the fastest user, but more because he's the most useful user. Also gets TWave and STAB Volt Switch to turn momentum your way early-game. He's more oriented towards bulky offense teams though, since stall, hyper offense, and other things don't care to lose a team slot for this move, but he has a niche and I think B- is where he deserves to be.

 

[Josh Morales]

Just wondering, how low are you on the ladder? Because when I watch Molk who only has 2k+ alts play, Shadow Ball Aegislash is by far the most common set.

inb4 lies about ACRE. It's not even worth asking because you can't know he's telling the truth.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

What I want to know is why Clefable is even ranked on here, let alone at B+. Sure it just got its typing changed to Fairy but what is the point of using it? Bulky Unaware or Offensive MG? Could someone explain this to me or copy+paste a link to a previous post i somehow overlooked that explains the reasoning behind this?

The retyping really made a difference.
It also got 10 more SpA this gen, so there's that.

I've been running a defensive set quite effectively, as it can actually stop dragons without having a Rocks weakness (Toge)
To use a lesser used Dragon, Haxorus, as an example (due to high Attack stat, mainly)
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 212-250 (53.8 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus: 264-312 (87.4 - 103.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

It's basically gotten a defensive niche now.

 

[Flamebot]

Every half decent player found out that SD+King Sheild is possibly the worst Aegislash set about 2 months ago...

In all fairness I wasn't playing two month ago and have only used him in game on catridge. Plus SD King shield can stay in shield form longer. Gonna try out the mixed set on smogon.if the one I posted is correct. You could explain how it is badIinstead of being rude. Pretty sure tho Getting a SD instead of having to attack after king shield (Wait Automize viable?) Helps with surviabillity.

 

[Flamebot]

Just wondering, how low are you on the ladder? Because when I watch Molk who only has 2k+ alts play, Shadow Ball Aegislash is by far the most common set. Not saying the ladder is a true measure of skill or anything like that, just pointing this out.[/quote]

Lol 14-1500's xD

 

[Josh Morales]

In all fairness I wasn't playing two month ago and have only used him in game on catridge. Plus SD King shield can stay in shield form longer. Gonna try out the mixed set on smogon.if the one I posted is correct. You could explain how it is badIinstead of being rude. Pretty sure tho Getting a SD instead of having to attack after king shield (Wait Automize viable?) Helps with surviabillity.

The set is

move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Sacred Sword / Shadow Sneak
move 3: Iron Head / Shadow Sneak
move 4: King's Shield
ability: Stance Change
item: Leftovers
nature: Quiet
evs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 12 Spe

It is quite literally the best tank/wall breaker/offensive spin blocker in OU and sorry for being a bit rude.

The autotomize set is

move 1: Autotomize
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Sacred Sword / Iron Head / Flash Cannon
ability: Stance Change
item: Weakness Policy
nature: Rash
evs: 88 Atk / 252 Atk / 168 Spe

The idea is to double your speed, attack and SpA in the same turn because you're so damn bulky as Aegislash and then annihilate everything.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Not to come out as a rude person, Flamebot, but do you think you are knowledgeable enough to be apart in the discussions on this thread as of now?

 

[Josh Morales]

Just wondering, how low are you on the ladder? Because when I watch Molk who only has 2k+ alts play, Shadow Ball Aegislash is by far the most common set. Not saying the ladder is a true measure of skill or anything like that, just pointing this out.

Lol 14-1500's xD

What's the "lol" because that is low, no offense.

 

[AOPSUser]

The retyping really made a difference.
It also got 10 more SpA this gen, so there's that.

I've been running a defensive set quite effectively, as it can actually stop dragons without having a Rocks weakness (Toge)
To use a lesser used Dragon, Haxorus, as an example (due to high Attack stat, mainly)
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 212-250 (53.8 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus: 264-312 (87.4 - 103.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

It's basically gotten a defensive niche now.

+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 368-434 (93.4 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 276-326 (70 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Haxorus is the only Dragon to get Poison Jab and should probably be using it really. Even if it doesn't the threat of it is enough to keep Clefable wary.

Clefable is, however, an excellent check to Dragons, because Clefable is uncommon and no one runs Iron Head/Tail on any other Dragons (none of them get Poison Jab either). It's also one of only two good Unaware users.

In all fairness I wasn't playing two month ago and have only used him in game on catridge. Plus SD King shield can stay in shield form longer. Gonna try out the mixed set on smogon.if the one I posted is correct. You could explain how it is badIinstead of being rude. Pretty sure tho Getting a SD instead of having to attack after king shield (Wait Automize viable?) Helps with surviabillity.

Different Aegislash do different things. There's just so many ways to get around the SD set in OU that it's hard to find a team that doesn't have at least two. Wallbreaker is obviously not lasting too long, but it hits really, really hard immediately.

 

[VanGru]

Why do people beat up on Galvantula? 3:
He brings an offensive presence with Compouneyes + Thunder, he takes out Magic Bouncers with STAB Bug Buzz, and he doesn't look like a painter having a bad day. Honestly I don't think he's high up for being the fastest user, but more because he's the most useful user. Also gets TWave and STAB Volt Switch to turn momentum your way early-game. He's more oriented towards bulky offense teams though, since stall, hyper offense, and other things don't care to lose a team slot for this move, but he has a niche and I think B- is where he deserves to be.

Nah, B is too high, Galvantula's niche is really tiny, IMO the thing shouldnt be higher than diggersby, that confuses me.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 368-434 (93.4 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Haxorus Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 276-326 (70 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Haxorus is the only Dragon to get Poison Jab and should probably be using it really. Even if it doesn't the threat of it is enough to keep Clefable wary.

Clefable is, however, an excellent check to Dragons, because Clefable is uncommon and no one runs Iron Head/Tail on any other Dragons (none of them get Poison Jab either). It's also one of only two good Unaware users.

Eh, it was only to showcase that despite having high attackstats, you're still checked by this thang. Poison Jab is, as you say, Haxorus exclusive.
And tbh, using Haxorus is a sin on it's own.

 

[King]

WOAH DIGGERSBY BETTER BE A RANK

 

[BROloom]

What I want to know is why Clefable is even ranked on here, let alone at B+. Sure it just got its typing changed to Fairy but what is the point of using it? Bulky Unaware or Offensive MG? Could someone explain this to me or copy+paste a link to a previous post i somehow overlooked that explains the reasoning behind this?

It essentially a Reuniclus or Sigilyph with better typing and worse stats.

 

[Hallucination]

Aegislash is S material, because there's little that can come into a 150 Sp.Atk STAB Shadow Ball. It's Tanky, powerful, has a STAB priority, has a protect move that harshly lowers your attack. Can run an effective Weakness Policy set, and in general is just a pokemon that can be put onto any team. It 2HKOs just about everything with Shadow Ball, and has incredible synergy with Rotom-W. Also, all the examples you've given can't OHKO Aegislash:

0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-B: 168-200 (51.85 - 61.72%) -- 96.88% chance to 2HKO
100 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-B: 224-266 (69.13 - 82.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-B: 212-252 (65.43 - 77.77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Hell, I can continue:
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-B: 230-272 (70.98 - 83.95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-B: 248-294 (76.54 - 90.74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Not that hard to avoid the +1 sp.atk. You just have to lower your iv in def. by 1 for Genesect to get a +1 in atk)

For starters you know something is wrong with your calcs when 100 attack Lando-T does more then 252+ Attack Lando-T

If it uses Shadow Sneak it will be in Blade form, and Hippowdon is slower then a negative nature aegislash.

Also, I did my calcs on Landorus and the ground types with a Specs, so it will be locked in and too slow to clean up. If its not Speced, plenty will be able to come in.

4 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 414-488 (127.7 - 150.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 251-296 (65.7 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 51-60 (13.3 - 15.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Thats with the benefit of the doubt of maxed attack, Sp.A and Life Orb ^^^ Zygrade will be able to tank both, not going to bother calcing.

The ones I brought up were just to show how weak its Shadow Sneak was, allowing it to be easily revenged killed.

252 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 132-156 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Good enough to finish off a weakened one. Especially if it is a Weakness Policy one, because then you know it will be weakened.

So, I believe Aegislash should go down from a S to an A+

 

[Flamebot]

The set is

move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Sacred Sword / Shadow Sneak
move 3: Iron Head / Shadow Sneak
move 4: King's Shield
ability: Stance Change
item: Leftovers
nature: Quiet
evs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 12 Spe

It is quite literally the best tank/wall breaker/offensive spin blocker in OU and sorry for being a bit rude.

I was running the sword shield set. But I replaced the item with weakness policy.
Also where I am on the ladder most people suck (But some teams just beat me but every team will loose once and awhile) I rarely see a skilled Player where I am (and when I do then I get beat sometimes xD) let alone a good Aegislash user. 14-1500's like it has few good players. Thanks for telling me the set, I'll try it out. Anyways yeah.

 

[King]

For starters you know something is wrong with your calcs when 100 attack Lando-T does more then 252+ Attack Lando-T

If it uses Shadow Sneak it will be in Blade form, and Hippowdon is slower then a negative nature aegislash.

Also, I did my calcs on Landorus and the ground types with a Specs, so it will be locked in and too slow to clean up.

4 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 414-488 (127.7 - 150.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 251-296 (65.7 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 51-60 (13.3 - 15.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Thats with the benefit of the doubt of maxed attack, Sp.A and Life Orb ^^^ Zygrade will be able to tank both, not going to bother calcing.

The ones I brought up were just to show how weak its Shadow Sneak was, allowing it to be easily revenged killed.

252 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 132-156 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Good enough to finish off a weakened one. Especially if it is a Weakness Policy one, because then you know it will be weakened.

So, I believe Aegislash should go down from a S to an A+

Once AGAIN i will REITERATE my point by saying STOP CALCING AEGISLASH-BLADE GETTING ATTACKED. PLEASE. Jirachi gets 2hko'd by most eq's in GEN 5 and he was still arguably the most versatile threat in that OU. Aegislash is So centralized in this metagame right now it DESERVES its spot in S. There's not a GIANT difference between S and A+ anyway, so Stop being so anal please.

 

[Rechi]

With nearly as much offensive presence as a Nidoking, and more of a defensive presence due to those neutral resistances and better overall defensive stat, I believe that it can overcome for the most part. A small niche in using Superpower once or twice is not a guaranteed dead weight on a team. Typing leaves much to be desired as does movepool due to the poor typing. But that unique typing is what leaves him in a spot to nearly always be force switched out on a powerful enough or fast enough bug or fairy.

Also, as I stated in my little first time ever post, I did mention to use as a possible reserve if you notice that the opposing team has a 'mon that may be trouble for what is a very powerful lead. With a free +1 from intimidate Gyarados, he OHKOs our little blue friend with a rock slide, off defensive variations. And with a free set-up on popular lead T-tar, you can easily get that pesky mega out of the way on unprepared or less informed players.

I do want to say, I did not say that Malamar is B or higher material. He has a useful slot in a team who may have room, does not rely on superpower for a KO, and can definitely cause some damage on a team either later in a match, or to open and possibly force a switch on some rather handy leads. His Aegislash - breaking use is great, but at this point, I hardly ever see Aegislash used anymore as compared to more classic 'mons like Dragonite or newer very commonly used ones such as Greninja and Talonflame. He can hold his own against both Greninja and Talonflame, and come back with a KO for those who believe that this bulky squid is fodder for their sweeper.

First off, after factoring in Sheer Force, Malamar doesn't even come close to Nidoking's damage output and having 5 extra HP and 11 Defense than Nidoking is so negligible it's irrelevant and it still isn't even that bulky at all. Second, Malamar's typing doesn't just "leave much to be desired". It leaves it with no resistances which is beyond damning for an offensive pokemon. Offensive pokemon need resistances just as much as defensive ones do; they give them opportunities to switch in and force things out so they can set up or attempt a sweep. Having no resistances and being susceptible to every status there is means that nothing in OU is scared of a Malamar switch-in. Nidoking may not be all that viable in OU either but at least it can switch into Poison, Fighting, Electric, Rock, Bug, and Fairy moves. Situational things like switching into Intimidates (which Bisharp does better anyway) and other gimmicky Contrary shenanihorseshit isn't enough to justify using something that's slow, not very bulky, and takes full damage from every non-Psychic attack in OU.

Also, the fact that you mentioned Battle Spot earlier and that you don't see a lot of Aegislash kinda proves that you're inexperienced and have probably only faced bad players, no offense.

And for real this time, Malamar shouldn't even be on the list.

God, why did I even reply to this?

 

[Hallucination]

Once AGAIN i will REITERATE my point by saying STOP CALCING AEGISLASH-BLADE GETTING ATTACKED. PLEASE. Jirachi gets 2hko'd by most eq's in GEN 5 and he was still arguably the most versatile threat in OU.

Why? Hippowdon is guarenteed to hit it in Blade Form, and if it uses Shadow Sneak it will be in Blade form.

Also, "Any good player knows King Shield is a waste" or whatever was argued about it, so who's to say it wont be in Blade form?

Not only that, but I calc'd Gene's in Shield, hippow's the only one and I specifically explained why is should be Blade.

EDIT:

There's not a GIANT difference between S and A+ anyway, so Stop being so anal please.

If i read it correctly the suspects come from S, so there is a huge difference.

 

[Flamebot]

Not to come out as a rude person, Flamebot, but do you think you are knowledgeable enough to be apart in the discussions on this thread as of now?

Well sorry If im not in the fucking 1800+Range like the rest of you. I dont even have a fucking computer to play it on. I have to use my phone so each match is like a half an hour. I started playing competitive like last month and usaly stick with 4 main pokes the other two vaire. I haven't needed to try Aegislash and Wasn't interested in it until now. So yeah sorry :'(

 

[Josh Morales]

Why? Hippowdon is guarenteed to hit it in Blade Form, and if it uses Shadow Sneak it will be in Blade form.

Also, "Any good player knows King Shield is a waste" or whatever was argued about it, so who's to say it wont be in Blade form?

Not only that, but I calc'd Gene's in Shield, hippow's the only one and I specifically explained why is should be Blade.

Hippowdon has to SWITCH INTO a Shadow and loose almost all of its health , then kings sheild, and next turn dead Hippo. Is that too complicated for your tiny brain?

 

[King]

Why? Hippowdon is guarenteed to hit it in Blade Form, and if it uses Shadow Sneak it will be in Blade form.

Also, "Any good player knows King Shield is a waste" or whatever was argued about it, so who's to say it wont be in Blade form?

Not only that, but I calc'd Gene's in Shield, hippow's the only one and I specifically explained why is should be Blade.

the bold statement just means you should never ever ever ever ever post in this thread. also, let me also say that you can outslow hippo with aegislash..

 

[BROloom]

Why? Hippowdon is guarenteed to hit it in Blade Form, and if it uses Shadow Sneak it will be in Blade form.

Also, "Any good player knows King Shield is a waste" or whatever was argued about it, so who's to say it wont be in Blade form?

Not only that, but I calc'd Gene's in Shield, hippow's the only one and I specifically explained why is should be Blade.

EDIT:


If i read it correctly the suspects come from S, so there is a huge difference.

Hippowdon switches into Shadow ball, then takes another one to the face. 252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 210-247 (50 - 58.8%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. Any form of damage before hand, and you have a guaranteed dead Hippowdon upon switching into Aegislash.

 

[King]

Well sorry If im not in the fucking 1800+Range like the rest of you. I dont even have a fucking computer to play it on. I have to use my phone so each match is like a half an hour. I started playing competitive like last month and usaly stick with 4 main pokes the other two vaire. I haven't needed to try Aegislash and Wasn't interested in it until now. So yeah sorry :'(

Sorry for double posting but the only thing I would recommend is just lurking more and trying to ladder a little more to see what is better than other things.

 

[AOPSUser]

Well sorry If im not in the fucking 1800+Range like the rest of you. I dont even have a fucking computer to play it on. I have to use my phone so each match is like a half an hour. I started playing competitive like last month and usaly stick with 4 main pokes the other two vaire. I haven't needed to try Aegislash and Wasn't interested in it until now. So yeah sorry :'(

If each match is really taking half an hour you shouldn't play PS! at all really. Playing and on Wi-Fi here on Smogon or on Battle Spot are good for experience too. Also even on PS! 1800 is really easy to reach, ~15-20 wins is usually enough, depending on how much you lose.

Of course breeding a 6 IV Honedge is really really cumbersome, but it's easier than, say, Timid HP Ice Rotom. You could always try to trade for one too. PS! is mostly convenient to test mons and teams, to see what's good, to see what's not, to fit mons together, and so on. The ladder is just a quick measure of how good a player is.