Xerneas

[Aoda]

While talking gimmicky counters to Xerneas, instead of all this Arceus-Fire nonsense, why not the new Grass/Fairy Whimsicott?

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Prankster
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Bold
Bold Nature
- Encore
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder
- Substitute

Bring Whimsicott in on Xerneas using Geomancy and then use Encore. If it switches, you've wasted its Power Herb. If it stays in, you just Leech Seed and Sub up, eventually stalling it out. Whimsicott isn't exactly dead weight in ubers, either. Scarf Palkia can't touch it, while Bulky support Groudon can only 6HKO with Stone Edge after Leech Seed, which gives Stone Edge about a 260% chance to miss. Scarf Zekrom also only does around 30% with Bolt Strike, also only giving it the 4HKO on Whimsicott.

I was almost thinking of prankster toxic + endeavor in the case it manages to bring Whimsicott down to 1hp. I don't know how good it would be in an actual battle, your set sounds better imo. Other than that, I think fairyceus should be able to at least check Xerneas with it's bulk, throw a flash cannon at it (provided it can learn it)

Is there a pokemon that can psych up on Xerneas? You guys mentioned M-Banette, but would M-gengar be fast enough against Xerneas? (I know sets running psyshock will straight kill it, but what if it decides to set up on gengar?

 

[EonADS]

Best part about that Whimsicott is that it works for other setup sweepers too (CM Arceus and Mewtwo and RP Groudon variants come to mind). Can't beat EK Arceus thanks to Extremespeed's +2 priority, but it works for what you need it to do.

Anyway, Xerneas is a definite threat, but his lack of reliable coverage against Steel-types really drags him down (for those who advocate Focus Blast, see where I said "reliable". Same with assorted Hidden Powers, since they're too weak). Aegislash especially spits on Xerneas, and Ferrothorn isn't far behind. He's also not as physically bulky as players would probably like, and between hazards and attack damage switching in, he's often easier to bring down that you'd think.

 

[superstar]

Best part about that Whimsicott is that it works for other setup sweepers too (CM Arceus and Mewtwo and RP Groudon variants come to mind). Can't beat EK Arceus thanks to Extremespeed's +2 priority, but it works for what you need it to do.

Anyway, Xerneas is a definite threat, but his lack of reliable coverage against Steel-types really drags him down (for those who advocate Focus Blast, see where I said "reliable". Same with assorted Hidden Powers, since they're too weak). Aegislash especially spits on Xerneas, and Ferrothorn isn't far behind. He's also not as physically bulky as players would probably like, and between hazards and attack damage switching in, he's often easier to bring down that you'd think.

Ferrothorn is OHKO'd by a +2 Modest Xerneas Focus Blast so that's not what I'd call a solid check (losing 70% of the time isn't really optimal). Has anyone tried running Hidden Power Fire over Focus Blast? It OHKOs Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Forretress while dealing 64% minimum to Aeglislash, really liming the amount you have to wear it down to sweep.

 

[MMII]

Hidden Power Fire is the exact same base power of Focus Blast now that it's nerfed to 60 max.

 

[Fizzyade]

With the risk of sounding like a moron, why can't any prankster + taunt work as a counter? W/O geomancy, isn't Xerneas much more manageable?

 

[Haruno]

With the risk of sounding like a moron, why can't any prankster + taunt work as a counter? W/O geomancy, isn't Xerneas much more manageable?

Because realistically xerneas will never be against a prankster + taunt user on the turn it decides to set up.

 

[Fizzyade]

Oh I see. Makes sense, I guess. Iv'e been looking at malamar, but it's a dead end.
Still, topsy turvy on a contrary superpower set has a chance of being useful, but I fail to see it being worth the risks.

 

[Haruno]

Oh I see. Makes sense, I guess. Iv'e been looking at malamar, but it's a dead end.
Still, topsy turvy on a contrary superpower set has a chance of being useful, but I fail to see it being worth the risks.

It's almost certainly getting ohko'd by moonblast.

 

[superstar]

Hidden Power Fire is the exact same base power of Focus Blast now that it's nerfed to 60 max.

Yeah, I realize that, but it's 100% accurate and can actually 2HKO Aegislash which is awesome.

 

[escarlata]

Yeah, I realize that, but it's 100% accurate and can actually 2HKO Aegislash which is awesome.

Well, moonblast can 2hko it too. And aegislash wins anyway with iron head + shadow sneak

 

[FlowingCloud]

Well, moonblast can 2hko it too. And aegislash wins anyway with iron head + shadow sneak

but actually aegislash set sacred sword + shadow sneak more often ~

 

[Haruno]

but actually aegislash set sacred sword + shadow sneak more often ~

Aegislash always has iron head specifically to somewhat check xerneas lacking sub

 

[Savato93]

I remember someone earlier in the thread mentioning Wobbuffet as a possible counter to Xerneas. Can somebody check the numbers and see if a 252 HP / 252+ SpD Wobbuffet has a chance to avoid a OHKO from a +2 Moonblast and OHKO back with Mirror Coat?

 

[Haruno]

I remember someone earlier in the thread mentioning Wobbuffet as a possible counter to Xerneas. Can somebody check the numbers and see if a 252 HP / 252+ SpD Wobbuffet has a chance to avoid a OHKO from a +2 Moonblast and OHKO back with Mirror Coat?

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Wobbuffet: 442-523 (75.68 - 89.55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

takes massive damage and it outright loses if xerneas has sub in its arsenal.

 

[dadoux]

Xerneas with power herb and life orb ? Lol.

 

[Haruno]

Xerneas with power herb and life orb ? Lol.

I'm using life orb to make up for how fairy aura isn't on the calc.

 

[dadoux]

Oh yeah my bad.

Anyway the best way to check him is still by using steel types@AV (rachi/gross/zor) imo

 

[Savato93]

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Wobbuffet: 442-523 (75.68 - 89.55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

takes massive damage and it outright loses if xerneas has sub in its arsenal.

But, built right, it CAN survive to get off a Mirror Coat. That's all I needed to hear.

 

[Haruno]

But, built right, it CAN survive to get off a Mirror Coat. That's all I needed to hear.

Assuming wobb has taken next to no prior damage then yes it can survive, big if though. Sub xerneas outright beats it unless you go for encore which is such a high risk high reward play I wouldn't advise it.

 

[Kejmur]

Well, I had a simple idea. When looking for checks/counters, this guy came to my mind.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 SpA (or Def)
Ability: Unaware
~ Wish
~ Softboiled (not sure if Softboiled is legal with Unaware though) / Protect
~ Moonblast / Seismic Toss
~ Toxic / Seismic Toss

Technically Geomancy is not a problem, because with brilliant Unaware ability you actually DGAF about Xerneas Geomancy. Also this Clefable should be a good check to NP Darkrai, Yvetal and all CM Arceus forms except Steel and Poison (although random status may screw you up or random steel attacks) and also CM versions of Lati Twins. Also the ability to take Choice Dragon attacks is good as well. Also Ubers tier kind of misses good Wish users (technically only Pink blobs, Jirachi and really niche Sylveon/Umbreon), so here is the another one.

 

[superstar]

Well, I had a simple idea. When looking for checks/counters, this guy came to my mind.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 SpA (or Def)
Ability: Unaware
~ Wish
~ Softboiled (not sure if Softboiled is legal with Unaware though) / Protect
~ Moonblast / Seismic Toss
~ Toxic / Seismic Toss

Technically Geomancy is not a problem, because with brilliant Unaware ability you actually DGAF about Xerneas Geomancy. Also this Clefable should be a good check to NP Darkrai, Yvetal and all CM Arceus forms except Steel and Poison (although random status may screw you up or random steel attacks) and also CM versions of Lati Twins. Also the ability to take Choice Dragon attacks is good as well. Also Ubers tier kind of misses good Wish users (technically only Pink blobs and really niche Sylveon/Umbreon), so here is the another one.

Pretty sure this loses to Sub Xerneas, but it's a great set idea! I'll have to try it out

 

[GRB1]

This thread right here. This is why Xerneas will be an average uber pokemon. We are literally discussing the most efficient way to neuter a pokemon competitively. This is inhumane. Lol.

Seriously though, 252/ 252+ Lugia survives a +2 Moonblast even after stealth rock. Just putting that out there...

 

[Kejmur]

Pretty sure this loses to Sub Xerneas, but it's a great set idea! I'll have to try it out

Clefable also has access to Meteor Mash, which IMO even if uninvested should be enough to break Xerneas sub (I hope so, I would need to check, maybe investing few EVs in attack may be needed, although this pathetic 70 base attack doesn't help...). Although if you switch on Sub and he toxic you (or something as mean), you have a problem anyway. Well, I consider to test Clefable myself as I have some trouble with Xerneas and I needed Wish Passer... Clefable fits both criteria.

Or you may find a place for Heal Bell, but 4MMS in this case may be a problem.

 

[Ferdie]

I've played only official ubers but have had none problems with xerneas. Either my assault vest scizor stops it or then I revenge kill it with talonflame. Everyone is prepared to counter xerneas so it doesn't seem to be so overpowered I first thought.

 

[SomeoneStoleTheNameIWant]

Clefable also has access to Meteor Mash

Clefable

has access

TO Meteor Mash