Unpopular opinions

[DrPumpkinz]

Well...this is a thread for unpopular opinions and I think Scarf Greninja is underrated and therfore unpopular.

Plus the Monotype I'm referring to is Natdex Monotype so i don't think this will stick there and Scarf Greninja can be used even on Standard Natdex.

I think bacon tastes bad. That's an unpopular opinion, but I wouldn't post it here because this thread isn't about food in the same way it isn't about competitive viability in Nat Dex Monotype.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/national-dex-monotype.644/

 

[CJ Flava]

So there's an actual thread for that nice!

 

[misterdarvus]

I think Greninja's tongue scarf is disgusting ever since it was first revealed.

 

[Worldie]

I think Greninja's tongue scarf is disgusting ever since it was first revealed.

I never noticed that and now I cannot unsee it.

Thanks

 

[CJ Flava]

I think Greninja's tongue scarf is disgusting ever since it was first revealed.

But imagine it without the Tongue Scarf now!

See it's even more cursed that way.

 

[Sonikku A]

Honestly, the lower leg being so skinny especially compared to the thigh hurts
Like, give him meat!
He almost looks like he has baggy pants

 

[Siggu]

This makes me wonder... how does Greninja wear a Choice Scarf?

 

[pika pal]

This makes me wonder... how does Greninja wear a Choice Scarf?

He licks the scarf and his tongue turns that shade of Blue like with hard candies and stuff.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I wasn't able to find a high-quality instance of it online (so it's pretty hard to make out), but I remember this TCG commercial showing Greninja having a mouth separate from its tongue scarf. The animation also kinda sucks shit so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Sonikku A]

This is cursed...

 

[Robcore]

I agree it's dumb that species like Houndour and Murkrow seemingly aren't native to their own region while Misdreavus is gated behind 16 badges. That shouldn't have been the case. Tyranitar does make sense but Misdreavus definitely doesn't.

The really annoying thing is that there were places to put all the missing species:

-Ilex Forest for Misdreavus, or really anywhere Gastly is found
-Burned Tower or Victory Road for Slugma (via Rock Smash boulders)
-Burned Tower for Houndour, or just at night on any of the grassy routes
-Ilex Forest for Murkrow, or again just at night on any of the grassy routes

Even if they were 10% or even 1% appearance, this would have been better.

Don't forget that the Dark and Steel types were relatively newly discovered as per the game, so it wouldn't exactly make sense to have a load of Dark and Steel types suddenly appear out of nowhere. That's why their availability is pretty low. You've got Pokémon who've been identified as having a secondary type (i.e. Magemite and Magenton) who are relatively easy to find because they already existed, but the rest are hidden because they're meant to be. Misdreavus should've been available earlier as there was no reason why it had to be so difficult to find; it should've been included within the east side of Dark Cave. Slugma I concur completely, Burned Tower seems to make sense as it's near a mountain, albeit not as warm as it may need (not that cycling road is, Johto could've done with somewhere like the Fiery Path in RSE which suits Slugma's biology to the ground).

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Don't forget that the Dark and Steel types were relatively newly discovered as per the game, so it wouldn't exactly make sense to have a load of Dark and Steel types suddenly appear out of nowhere. That's why their availability is pretty low. You've got Pokémon who've been identified as having a secondary type (i.e. Magemite and Magenton) who are relatively easy to find because they already existed, but the rest are hidden because they're meant to be. Misdreavus should've been available earlier as there was no reason why it had to be so difficult to find; it should've been included within the east side of Dark Cave. Slugma I concur completely, Burned Tower seems to make sense as it's near a mountain, albeit not as warm as it may need (not that cycling road is, Johto could've done with somewhere like the Fiery Path in RSE which suits Slugma's biology to the ground).

This is what I'm saying though. Have them be 10% or 1% appearance rate species to keep them elusive. Hell, Slugma and Houndour could even have been version-exclusives in the Burned Tower, idk.

And I disagree entirely that having Houndour and Murkrow be catchable earlier on than they were would have compromised the (probably yes, deliberate) scarcity of those types. Consider that of the Steel and Dark species in Gen II:

-Steelix, Scizor, and Forretress are evolution-exclusive
-Magneton, as you said, already existed
-Skarmory was wild but version-exclusive, making it that much more difficult for Gold players to get a Steel-type

-Umbreon and Tyranitar are evolution-exclusive
-Sneasel was another Pokemon exclusive to Mt Silver in GS; Crystal compensated by making it a very rare nighttime spawn in Ice Path, which needs 7 badges to access

I really, really don't think that putting Houndour in Burned Tower with a rate of, say, 5% at night (because you just know it would have been a time-restricted species) would have been so awful.

 

[Siggu]

And besides, gameplay comes first.

If something in the setting you are attempting to establish hurts the experience you are intending to give, you change that something.

 

[Sonikku A]

This is why I'm mad Gen 2 dev had more unique land tiles scrapped. Would've been perfect for more dark and ice types, but no, random Kanto it is!
Add the fact Pokemon stupidly had an actual 24 hour clock unlike most RPGs with day night...

 

[kirmii]

I have 2 unpopular opinions:
1)I think that (at least aesthetically) Girafarig is the best pokemon, and it should get more love and recognition. I would love a Girafarig figure.
2)Third versions should've had every pokemon in that generation in them, and cost a bit more. Pretty self-explanatory.

 

[Sceptilian70]

2)Third versions should've had every pokemon in that generation in them, and cost a bit more. Pretty self-explanatory.

Counter-opinion: I think third versions are lazy, upgraded versions that should never have existed. If Game Freak had just spent more time developing the first versions, they could've had all the cool features of the third versions. As a player of USUM, I feel bad for people who played SM and then learned about USUM and didn't want to buy it. USUM was a blast, it had so many more Pokemon that SM didn't, let you catch Legendaries, Ultra Beasts were more accessible, the story is longer, more difficult, and more interesting, and Team Rainbow Rocket is a way better postgame than the UB missions.

And yet, they sold the underdeveloped one when the deadline came and then upgraded it a year later.

I've felt the opposite while playing Pokemon Ruby. I thought the green outfits were cooler. I thought Rayquaza was the coolest Legendary (at the time). I wanted all three Legends in one game. And I really wanted the new Battle Frontier. But no, I got Ruby. And (Sorry to beat a dead horse) XY should've had Z. We all knew that could've been a thing. We all knew XY felt so underdeveloped and bad. If it had had Z, that would've been great. But it could've just had more development time, and it would've come out feeling much more polished and just better overall.

EDIT: I forgot about this, but I wanted to add it anyway. SM literally has empty spaces where buildings should be. Why? Because they're added in USUM! Yay! There's also (at least) one completely empty beach where a surf spot will eventually be added. Neat!
Also, I felt like mentioning this even though it's only kind of related, but I wish the golf course in the back of Hano Grand Resort had become a real area, minigame and all. That would've been absolutely amazing.

That's my long dumb opinion of the day. Thank you for reading. Have a great day!

 

[khlaylav]

So I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but I like that the main gimmicks are generally locked to an enemy's final Pokemon (so Lysandre's Mega Gyarados, Olivia's Rock Z move or Kabu's Centiskorch). Makes things feel a little more epic than if they started off or put them in randomly.

 

[Worldie]

So I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but I like that the main gimmicks are generally locked to an enemy's final Pokemon (so Lysandre's Mega Gyarados, Olivia's Rock Z move or Kabu's Centiskorch). Makes things feel a little more epic than if they started off or put them in randomly.

Honestly agreeable BUT it would work better if they were actually a surprise or at very least not something you are already told beforehand...

SwSh for example forces the (giga)dynamax for last pokemon on the gym leaders, but at same time it's kind of bland as after the first one you pretty much know it's coming so you'll already make sure you have something you can oneshot it with or at least dynamax yourself right away if you havent yet.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

With this in mind nowadays in more recent playthroughs I always save my own use of the gimmick for last when the opponent uses their own gimmick. So for example in Sword and Shield, because the Gym Leaders and boss Trainers always use their Dynamax ace last, I myself deliberately hold back on using Dynamax until they are down to their last Pokemon. Part of it is that I'm a bit theatrical and have a knack for trying to make the battles a bit cinematic for funsies, and part of it is my own personal sense of wanting to play on even ground with my opponents in these cases, but in a case like Sword and Shield in the Gym Battles, most of the battle I avoid Dynamax, then when the Gym Leader sends out their ace and proceeds to Dynamax, I use that turn to send in the mon I want to Dynamax and make it so both myself and the Gym Leader/rival/Champion in question both unleash our full power at the same time and create a grand showdown between two giant-sized Pokemon in the stadium to get the crowd running wild.

I do this as well in Alola and Kalos/ORAS Hoenn: I don't really use Megas in the latter case until the opponent unleashes Mega Evolution themself. So in the case of Diantha and Steven for example, since they send their ace out last and Mega Evolve on the first turn, I carefully preserve my own Mega beforehand and then when the time comes I make so that both myself and whoever my opponent is Mega Evolve our mons at the same time to make it a showdown between two Megas. It makes the final showdown in these cases a bit more fun and memorable. Same with Alola: I don't unleash the Z-Move I have until the ace Pokemon comes out.

Maybe it's just me and my weird sense of wanting to be a bit cinematic but with the way the gimmicks are, I play along and make sure to save my use of Megas/Z-Moves/Dynamax until the final showdown in the boss fights, so that both me and my opponent unleash our Mega/D-Max mon/Z-Move at the same time and create a fun little grand finale for the battle. That's my personal favorite way of using Megas/Z-Moves/Dmax in-game: using them at all beforehand is less fun to me otherwise.

 

[jordanthejq12]

And then there's Trace, who busts out the Mega immediately. I respect it.

(A pity Let's Go has no Abilities, because opening with No Guard Hurricanes would be extremely baller.)

 

[Hugin]

The problem is, fundamentally, there's no good rule. AI isn't good enough to Dynamax at the right time in battle, because that depends heavily on PC team comp, NPC team comp, etc. So you either DMax(/mega/Z/etc) immediately, which risks the PC being able to easily counter, because they led with a type advantage or a sacrifice, and even if the player doesn't easily counter, it turns the battle into "beat the lead by sacrificing 3 mons, and then sleepwalk through everything else". Or they DMax last, which is easily countered by various setup against the mons that don't DMax. My no-Dmax runs usually turn into Sticky Web+dual screens against their 2nd-to-last mon, which isn't particularly interesting. It's a tough challenge, and I don't blame GF for having trouble finding a good solution for it.

Alola, with it's Totem Battles, was a welcome change. Lean into the "single boss enemy" vibe, once the player has beaten that, it's over, and just toss whatever benefits you want onto that boss. There's room for improvement, to be sure, but trying to beat that without overleveling and without Z moves was an experience.

 

[Worldie]

The problem is, fundamentally, there's no good rule. AI isn't good enough to Dynamax at the right time in battle, because that depends heavily on PC team comp, NPC team comp, etc. So you either DMax(/mega/Z/etc) immediately, which risks the PC being able to easily counter, because they led with a type advantage or a sacrifice, and even if the player doesn't easily counter, it turns the battle into "beat the lead by sacrificing 3 mons, and then sleepwalk through everything else". Or they DMax last, which is easily countered by various setup against the mons that don't DMax. My no-Dmax runs usually turn into Sticky Web+dual screens against their 2nd-to-last mon, which isn't particularly interesting. It's a tough challenge, and I don't blame GF for having trouble finding a good solution for it.

Realistically speaking, if we want to go a bit further than the scope of the games (which are meant to be easy in order to be affordable to play through for kids)...

It's more or less impossible to make gym leaders "challenging".

First problem: types. They are always mainly monotype, so even though you can get a bit more creative as they have done in BDSP with team synergies, ultimately they are still stacking weaknesses and any player with basic knowledge will be able to 1v6 or 2v6 purely off type advantage.

Second problem: levels. You can overlevel them. Even in an ipotetical world where they level-scale the gyms, how do you exactly base it? Highest pokemon in the player's party? What if it's a poke without type advantage, then suddently the player hits a wall. Average level? What if the team is not balanced in levels, and the player has a very high level poke who facerolls it. Level cap? It's a pretty artificial and boring solution, definitely usable, but noone enjoys being arbitrarly limited, plus if the player doesn't have usable pokemon he'd just grind a type advantage one rather than use any strategy anyway.

Third problem: AI. Cumulative with the above. If you give the enemy an actually good AI AND a good team, the player can't win without sheer luck. Bad teams with good AI? Then they just lose off sheer power anyway. Good team with trash AI? Well that's USUM and BDSP more or less. Plus, programming an AI for Pokemon games is actually very difficult... and it would require insane processing power on top of it, since if you don't make it adapt to what the player does, then well, you have the predictable AI we're used to.

Fourth problem: Time. Assuming all of the above is realistic, nothing would prevent the developers from making multiple difficulties, one with very stupid AI, one with maybe level scaling, and one with actually clever AI and strong movesets. Except time. Difficulties come at cost of development time, that could be used for something else. I suspect they did try something like that for gen 5 because well, 2d games required much less development to be made than modern ones. Investing a huge amount of time for something that only a minority would care for or really use... heh... remember they cut challenging battle facilities for that reason already...

 

[Sonikku A]

Imagine an entire game with Stadium Ai and clauses
...well, outside Stadium Japan-2, but that's a good example of what NOT to do, at least for an entire campaign

For those wondering, the AI in Stadium effectively is a cheater. They can see what moves you selected for that turn, even sometimes knowing you're going to switch. Sleep/Freeze clauses also means you can't cheaply status them out hard either. So in response to this, unlike main game for the most part, the AI switching is very common. Add that teams are a random 3 selection of 6 mons, the experience can vary even more difficulty wise

Of course as noted before, since this is a turn based RPG, nothing prevents you from simply bruteforcing it with higher level mons from transfer. If you're using Rentals though, it obnoxiously takes longer in addition to poor movesets for FE mons. Either way: it's extremely cheap

That said, as noted before, randomized selection for teams definitely helps fights not feel predictable. Teams also aren't heavily monotyped either, which further minimizes being able to one shot just cuz of type advantage. If main games did that it'd help at least repetition wise

 

[Worldie]

That said, as noted before, randomized selection for teams definitely helps fights not feel predictable. Teams also aren't heavily monotyped either, which further minimizes being able to one shot just cuz of type advantage. If main games did that it'd help at least repetition wise

I feel one relatively cheap way to make ""bosses"" more challenging would be them just not having a fixed team and instead always pick a random X out of a bigger pool + their ace, kinda like special trainers worked in the Battle Tree and Leon in the Battle Tower.

To some degree it even works "in lore", because the anime (as well as the fact rematches exist in some games) shown that gym leaders in fact do have a wide selection of Pokemon available, and pick their team based on the opponent's experience in order to provide a "fair challenge".

However there is still the issue of the monotyping... that's basically a huge gate in making team compositions that are at same time synergic and not facerolled by a single pokemon. Maybe they should take a page off the Smogon monotype meta, though even there, for obvious reasons some types are basically unsalvageable and just matchup dependant anyway.

 

[Bakugames]

I think the way to go is base gyms on themes in general vs just monotype. Maybe linked to the difficulty.

Making a new game with aqua as a gym leader in a litoral city. In a normal pokemon game, they'd be a water gym leader with random native water types and some oldies, but with the suggestion above:

Easy/adventure mode: usual water type gym leader
Normal/balanced mode: maybe a rain themed leader, keep all water but put some monotype counters and explore the concept
Hard/challenge mode: rain themed, which includes electrics and flyings on the team.

I just used rain because its a common archetype, but the themes don't have to be 1:1 with competitive archetypes, and they can be based on character design or their lore/lore of the city/region. Maybe your usual psychic leader has a sunset theme with fires and fairies in balanced mode, which then are finetuned to be a screens team in challenge mode

I think challenge in variety is more fun than arbritary stuff such as level jumps/level caps, or rng. And if people want to bruteforce a gym leader, just let them lol, its a valid gameplay method, sometimes you just want to be a nuke