With a Jolly nature, you can outspeed (after a dragon dance) positive natured base 130 pokemon. With adamant you get outsped and killed by scarftar and mega gengar.
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Pokémon Tyrantrum
- Thread starter JSND
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With an Adamant nature, you lose to positive base 70s (Breloom, Politoed, Cloyster pre-Shell Smash), neutral base 80s (Dragonite, Mamoswine, Venusaur outside of Sun), Adamant Gyarados, Modest Heatran, Jolly Tyranitar, and Jolly Scizor. At +1, you lose to any of these Pokemon at +1 themselves (obviously), and you also lose to positive base 120s (Alakazam and Dugtrio), Weavile, Tornadus-T, and positive base 130s, and you only speed tie with Starmie at best. That's just old Pokemon based on the current OU metagame (I'm counting Tornadus-T as well since it was solid OU pre-ban and will most likely be unbanned initially), so I haven't taken into account any of the new Pokemon.
I'd say you might find room for an Adamant nature on a Choice Band set since the goal of the set is to hit as hard as possible, but you might still find a Jolly nature useful for beating that first group of Pokemon.
My question is, why are so many people talk about Tyrantrum with Rock Head, as if it is confirmed? Indeed some people claim to have seen Rock Head Tyrantrum in Battle Maison, but there is no picture or video to prove it whatsoever.
Even Serebii took it down, and Bulbapedia says Tyrantrum has no Hidden Ability... I believe Rock Head is just a rumor.
Even Serebii took it down, and Bulbapedia says Tyrantrum has no Hidden Ability... I believe Rock Head is just a rumor.
Bulbapedia and Serebii are far from perfect right now. It's true that it's not confirmed, but we have seen a lot of people say they've seen it. Also bear in mind that it wouldn't make a lot of sense for them to give the other fossil a hidden ability and not give Tyrantrum one. The other fossil, whose name eludes me currently, definitely has a hidden ability, it would be really weird if they didn't extend that to Tyrantrum as well.
Anyway, I asked my cousin to check it out so maybe I'll get some info from him.
MaximumZero
Banned deucer.
I've been trying Priority Tailwind and CB Tyrantrum and it hurts quite alot I must say .
So it seems to have been agreed that speed is the largest factor keeping it from success. It will most likely not make ou for that reason, but will see great usage in uu ru or whatever due to the sheer power of STAB head smash off of 120 apprx attack. I think that with boosts from trick room/ tailwind or scarf/rock polish/DD that it will still be very viable for ou. Just a summary of the previous discussions.
I love using Choice Banded Aggron in RU, so I can only imagine how fun this thing will be in the lower tiers. Unlike Aggron, Tyrantrum has passable Speed so it doesn't have to worry about running a bunch of Speed just to creep defensive Pokemon, so it can invest a lot more in bulk. It also has 15 extra points in Attack (Aggron has 110), meaning that a Banded Head Smash from Tyrantrum will be significantly more powerful. Yeah the Dragon Dance sets will be good and all, but I think Tyrantrum's true potential lies in its wall breaking capabilities. Pair this thing with a sweeper, and you're golden! Tyrantrum is seriously like the child birthed from an Aggron and a Druddigon, because the three share so many similarities. Now that's scary. I don't see this thing dropping any lower than UU to be honest, unless the UU metagame is significantly different from last generation. This thing tears apart bulky offense teams.
Would a Rock Polish set be feasible?
Tyrantrum@Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 176 Hp / 80 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw
- Crunch / Earthquake / Fire Fang
These EVs allow Tyrantrum to outrun positive 130 Speed Pokemon after a Rock Polish. Maxing Attack lets him hit as hard as possible, and putting the remaining EVs into HP makes it easier to switch him in.
I could see this set working pretty well in a UU environment. Tyrantrum can switch in on physical hits and set up Rock Polish with little trouble.
Tyrantrum@Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 176 Hp / 80 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw
- Crunch / Earthquake / Fire Fang
These EVs allow Tyrantrum to outrun positive 130 Speed Pokemon after a Rock Polish. Maxing Attack lets him hit as hard as possible, and putting the remaining EVs into HP makes it easier to switch him in.
I could see this set working pretty well in a UU environment. Tyrantrum can switch in on physical hits and set up Rock Polish with little trouble.
The question is. Is it more profitable to get an adamant nature, invest in speed EVs in place of HP EVs and run rock polish.
Or is it more profitable to get a jolly nature, invest in HP EVs in place of speed EVs and run rock polish.
I'm bad with numbers myself. Which EV spread is most profitable? If someone could calculate this, I would be more than happy :).
Too lazy to calc but I would actually invest in attack and HP and just leave speed uninvested if running RP. Its slow but its not THAT slow, and its not in a speed tier where investment is going to make a huge different, but it has bulk that can really be tapped into with that extra HP.
You also might try 252/128/128 HP/atk/spe for a DD set. I always boost nature in the highest stat because its percentage based so why not get the most bang for your buck, so adamant all the way.
Hmm. If you uninvest in speed though, won't that prevent you from outrunning base 130's as is the goal of rock polish sets? I like the bulky offense idea because of the large phys def stats, but I think the 130 benchmark needs to be reached
Going to Breed Tyrantrum with random poks in order to find out if it gets outrage ,i'll edit this post when i do.
i currently have only one egg made with the help of druddigon.
i currently have only one egg made with the help of druddigon.
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MaximumZero
Banned deucer.
^ Tried it already and it doesnt work . Tried with a Charizard that has Fire Fang /Outrage / Dragon Dance
For a Rock Polish Tyrantrum, it's probably best to go with a Jolly nature and max Spe. Assuming Serebii's estimated base 71 speed, a Jolly Tyrantrum has enough speed to outpace Scarf Latios at +2, which base 70s actually fail to do. In fact, it has just enough speed to outspeed even Scarf 111s, so if someone happens to be running a Scarf Tornadus-I or Thundurus-I, you can beat those as well. With an Adamant nature, you get outsped by everything from Jolly Scarf Haxorus to the aforementioned Scarf base 111s, which you would otherwise outspeed.
True, but how does Tyrantrum fare in terms of causing damage to those threats, assuming he can outspeed them?
252 Att, Jolly Nature Head Smash: 95.68 - 112.62% on 4 Hp/ 0 Def Latios
Ice fang is 100% KO on latios.
KOs both Tornadus and Thunderus several times over with head-smash.
252 Atk Tyrantrum Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 274-324 (91.63 - 108.36%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Actually with its ability + Ice Fang (97.5 BP), + Head Smash, it KOs nearly everything I can see.
This isnt even taking into account stuff like life orb, where a boosted Ice Fang KOs a full Marvel Scale Dragonnite. Rock + Ice is an amazing coverage type. He can learn Thunder-fang as well to have a STRONGER bolt/beam combo.
Look at this. He can outrun a scarfed keledo at + 2 speed, and KO it half the time, with it being 100% with life orb.
252 Atk Life Orb Tyrantrum Thunder Fang vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 294-346 (90.74 - 106.79%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO
This guy has alot going for it for a late game, rock polish sweeper. It can outrun 111 and under choice scarfed pokemon, and base 130 pokemon (M-Gengar) and KOs the majority of them with its coverage from boosted elemental fangs or Head Smash + Stab
Base 71 speed is interesting. It is the absolute cut off in terms of +2, which can reach all these benchmarks (Scarfed 111 and below, and Max 130s). A dragon dance set would not be able to reach these very important benchmarks in a single turn.
I think this is his best set actually.
Ability: Strong Jaw
Item: Life Orb
252 Att/252 Speed
Jolly
Rock Polish
Head Smash/Rock Slide
Ice Fang
Thunder Fang/ Poison Fang/ Fire Fang
Lets say its late game, all you need to do is come into a physical attacker and rock polish after one of your pokemon were koed. Your opponent cannot switch to the usual scarf counters because you just barely outspeed them, while a dragon dance set falls to the first attack.
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I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but a completely unboosted Jolly Tyrantrum Head Smash has about 96% of the power of a CB Terrakion Stone Edge, which is pretty amazing. With a Life Orb, Tyrantrum's Head Smash is powerful enough to 2HKO physically defensive Skarmory nearly 100% of the time with no prior damage. Assuming a set of Rock Polish / Head Smash / Dragon Claw / Earthquake, Scarf Latios, Thundurus-I, Tornadus-I, Thundurus-T, Hydreigon, Haxorus, Salamence, Gengar, Landorus-I, and Genesect are all OHKO'd. Scarf Terrakion and Garchomp can be OHKO'd at least part of the time, and a little prior damage will clinch it. Keldeo survives all of these attacks pretty easily, and while it can still be 2HKOd by Dragon Claw, it threatens to OHKO back with Hydro Pump. Overall, though, Jolly Life Orb Tyrantrum has a really good shot against most of those Scarf users.
Awesome. I definitely underestimated his damage output.
I wish to add a build to this, that is completely different bar moves.
Adamant
Strong Jaw
126 HP 252 ATK 63DEF
Will you? That'd be great, thanks. I don't care whether Rock Head is a rumor or not, I just want to be sure. If possible, please take a picture of it, so there won't be any more controversy.
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Because Strong Jaw is a 50% boost, the same as STAB, and Ice typing offers far superior coverage for the loss of 22.5 BP. Not to mention a 10% chance to flinch and a 10% chance to freeze.
Yeah, I don't know when or if he even will, but I'll bug him about it.
Yeah, a loss of 22.5 base power. That's more than the boost Crunch gets due to strong jaw. You want to have a reliable STAB move that won't kill you instantly from recoil so...
What? Crunch is 80BP, which means Strong Jaw would boost it to 120BP, 40BP higher.
22.5BP is pretty negligible when you consider the flinch and freeze chance, as well as the ability to deal 2x damage to grass, ground, and flying if you can't risk a head smash. Ice Fang is a reliable "STAB" move, and it deals with a lot more threats than Dragon Claw does.
Keep in mind a decision like this (Ice Fang VS Dragon Claw) is simply up to personal choice and playstyle. They offer different strengths and have different weaknesses and it all comes down to the player decided which move to choose. There probably isn't a better choice in this case, which is fine because things would get boring fast if there was only one viable moveset.
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