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Pokémon Toxapex
- Thread starter Samoyed
- Start date
- Status
http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/sm-doubles-ou.393/ for the doubles forums
You could honestly been less hostile in addressing a newcomer and instead kindly point them to the forum in question. An attitude like that is only going to scare new users off, and Smogon already has such a reputation to some extent.
Hey, welcome to Smogon! I understand the appeal behind Merciless Toxapex, but Regenerator is simply way too good to pass up on a Pokémon with defensive prowess such as Toxapex's. It's a brutal Pokémon to take down, and Regenerator simply granting it 33% of its HP back just by switching out only makes it that much more deadly a wall.
I do hope you've gotten yourself acquainted with the Doubles OU subforum by now; any matters pertaining to Doubles are to be handled there. Once again, welcome to Smogon, and enjoy your stay!
idk if anyone else mentioned it yet, but toxapex could run a set with 64 special defense. This guarentees that modest mega zard y's fire blast will never 2hko after stealth rock (excluding the burn and crit chance) and gets an improved matchup vs some other special attackers.
252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 120-142 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
vs
252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 126-149 (41.4 - 49%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 118-139 (38.8 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
vs
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 123-145 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 138-164 (45.3 - 53.9%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
vs
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 146-172 (48 - 56.5%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Nihilego Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 136-162 (44.7 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
vs
252 SpA Nihilego Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 144-170 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
You're still able to live through old things like +0 earthquake landorus-t and banded wood hammer tapu bulu, cause honestly you aren't sacrificing that much physical bulk. It's better imo to have insurance against these pokemon when toxapex already shuts down a lot of stuff and doesn't need that extra physical bulk anyways.
252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 120-142 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
vs
252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 126-149 (41.4 - 49%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 118-139 (38.8 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
vs
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 123-145 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 138-164 (45.3 - 53.9%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
vs
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 146-172 (48 - 56.5%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Nihilego Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 136-162 (44.7 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
vs
252 SpA Nihilego Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Toxapex: 144-170 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
You're still able to live through old things like +0 earthquake landorus-t and banded wood hammer tapu bulu, cause honestly you aren't sacrificing that much physical bulk. It's better imo to have insurance against these pokemon when toxapex already shuts down a lot of stuff and doesn't need that extra physical bulk anyways.
Sockpile is amazing. It must be brought up that if used right stockpile is very scary competitively. Try something like:
Stockpile
Recover
Scald
Toxic/Toxic Spikes
Stockpile
Recover
Scald
Toxic/Toxic Spikes
That's my setup currently. I bred in stockpile because it's so perfect for him. Much better than Haze imo. He can tank two physical attackers with ease on his own and most special attacks that would normally kill him. Scald is nice for burns to wait out anybody who can't be poisoned.
Thanks! It's quite alright. I was a little confused with the site but the internet is the internet haha
I feel like, for a Pokemon that's shut down by Taunt, Sub-DD Gyarados with EQ (and many others, i just mention things i like), and other things like that and, more importantly, should rely (and relies heavily) on Regenerator, setting up Stockpiles is just not worth it.
I'd like to see some replays but i'm not really convinced.
I'd like to see some replays but i'm not really convinced.
Deleted User 229847
Banned deucer.
i don't think you can choose to pick stockpile over recover, scald and haze. They are a must. You might want to use stockpile>toxic/toxic spikes but honestly that way you can't kill anyone at all. I doubt there's space for stockpile, especially when your offensive options are scald and maybe toxic and you can't get past +3.
Stockpile is a pretty bad move to begin with and Toxapex doesn't make any better use of it. One of the biggest issues with Toxapex is how passive and exploitable it is and Stockpile would just make it worse. If you give up Haze you become set up bait for pretty much anything on the tier and having no offensive presence at all makes it very counterproductive. Giving up Toxic/Tspikes means you have no way to hurt your opponent at all and then you're just PP Stalling until you die. Seriously, Stockpile is really bad and matchup dependant (you'll never get the right matchup above 1500) and there's no reason to use it on any mon, even less reasons to use it on Toxapex
Muscle K
Banned deucer.
Tell that to Verlisify
As mentioned here, one of Toxapex's key strengths is to be able to abuse Regenerator. Granted you do become harder to kill, it leaves you incredibly vulnerable to the likes of CM Tapu Koko/Lele, SD Chomp, and Mimikyu, to name some sweepers that weren't mentioned. Regenerator turns Toxapex into a valuable pivot, able to absorb hits, Toxic Spikes and to then Recover off the damage on switch-out - some of the best qualities of Tentacruel's fatter brother.
Stockpile turns Toxapex into a wall that is over-reliant of recovery moves, similarly to Sableye, Chansey etc. However, the difference between Stockpile Toxapex and the aforementioned walls, Toxapex has no way to damage an opponent (outside of Toxic/burn)
MMeta is an example of a mon that can beat Stockpex 1v1, even with a +2 or +3 boost.
Although Mega Metagross 4HKO the standard 248 / 184 / 72 ev spread
(252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. +3 252 HP / 184+ Def Toxapex: 84-102 (27.6 - 33.5%) -- 76.3% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery)
there is simply too much to consider when facing it.
Some examples include (excluding crits and Z-Moves) :
1) What Happens if I get flinched once (or potentially more)?
2) Will Scald/Sludge Bomb Burn/Poison it?
3) Do I continuously recover so I negate the damage dealt?
4) Will I get another opportunity to set up on his/her team?
5) Will there be a situation where Toxapex will become setup fodder?
Yes, I do realise many of these considerations may apply to the standard ('Hazepex' [someone use these nicknames as the official set names please]), however there is a stronger reliance on a move that has a
TL;DR (In conclusion)
Stockpile downgrades Toxapex into a wall - not a pivot - a wall with low damage with an over-reliance for moves and wastes a fantastic (a contender for the best) defensive ability.
This is my opinion however, and unlike many members of this community, I Respect Your Opinion.
Feel Free to correct me, as I might not have worded my points correctly.
Toxapex CAN actually deal good damage and can, at least, weaken Taunters: Infestation with Binding Band. The trapped Pokemon, for example, Tapu Fini, loses 1/6 of its HP per turn due to the infestation, while Toxapex can further damage it with Scald to secure the KO, while it resists both Scald and Moonblast.
This works against all pokemon that can't hit Toxapex super-effectively and don't have access to a switching move like u-turn.
When used in combination with Toxic, the trapped mon dies even faster.
A possible set would be this:
Toxapex @ Binding Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 KP, 252 SpDef, 4 Def (assuming dangerous physical atrackers are weakened by burns), or other splits
Calm/Bold Nature
- Recover
- Infestation
- Toxic / Haze
- Scald
This works against all pokemon that can't hit Toxapex super-effectively and don't have access to a switching move like u-turn.
When used in combination with Toxic, the trapped mon dies even faster.
A possible set would be this:
Toxapex @ Binding Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 KP, 252 SpDef, 4 Def (assuming dangerous physical atrackers are weakened by burns), or other splits
Calm/Bold Nature
- Recover
- Infestation
- Toxic / Haze
- Scald
I'm not a huge fan of stockpile mostly because the crit mechanics this gen make it even riskier than in previous gens, where a strategy like stockpile isn't even good anyway. I also fail to see why any opposing mon couldn't just boost up alongside Toxapex (and past, Stockpile goes up to +3). Keep in mind: Toxapex has nothing to deter these mons if it lacks Haze. Further, Pex's ability is what keeps it from being a complete momentum drain (much like Alo) so you're shooting yourself in the foot by running a move that requires you to stick around. If you're looking for a pivot that boosts defense and is generally very difficult to break, try Pyukumuku: you can even pass your curse boosts if you're into that or forego defense boosts to poison steel types via soak + toxic. It's greater taunt bait than Toxapex, Alomomola, and Chansey combined so YMMV.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned deucer.
Trapping moves as of last gen are 4-5 turn instead of 2-5 so binding band is so wasteful
Also whenjoy You switch in Toxapex vs something it hard walls they'll switch out if they don't have a wall the boost damage output like a Z move or swords dance/taunt bait
If it traps something I promise it'll likly be a counter but that'd be great for regen and going into Your counter, I've been running the shit ass Magma storm heatran sets lately
I think the berry to weaken ground moves should be a item sash if there's fear of dugtrio
Also whenjoy You switch in Toxapex vs something it hard walls they'll switch out if they don't have a wall the boost damage output like a Z move or swords dance/taunt bait
If it traps something I promise it'll likly be a counter but that'd be great for regen and going into Your counter, I've been running the shit ass Magma storm heatran sets lately
I think the berry to weaken ground moves should be a item sash if there's fear of dugtrio
what do you mean? binding band raises the damage dealt by trapping moves and not their duration, which is in current gen 4 to 5 turns
Muscle K
Banned deucer.
Binding Band and Infestation are both useless - there is no point giving up utility items such as a super effective damage reduction berry such as a wacan or shuca, rocky helmet or black sludge for an item that increases damage on a trapping move on a mon that isn't supposed to deal large amounts of damage.
what do you mean? binding band raises the damage dealt by trapping moves and not their duration, which is in current gen 4 to 5 turns
I wouldn't say that, especially about infestation. Back the days I played full stall in OU, Binding Band Infestation Toxapex helped me a lot, because it could safely remove Tapu Fini (which really likes to switch in against Toxapex) or at least stall out its misty terrain and poison it.Tapu Fini, as you know, would otherwise be extremely annoying, because it shuts down many stallers with taunt, deals huge damage with Nature's Madness and prevents any status with its Misty Terrain.
Lacking either tspikes or haze(or both) is pretty bad in my opinion. Lacking tspikes basically means sub coil zygarde is far far more annoying. Lacking haze means that you lose to many pokemon like vincune, qd pheromosa, mimikyu(if you cannot scald burn), bisharp, sub mega gyarados etc. These are mons that stall rely on Toxapex to check. Infestation also cannot poison fini because it taunts, and you do only 20-30% counting leftovers recovery. This is nothing detrimental, doing as much damage as a chansey seismic toss. Binding Band is basically a waste of an item, as you are in fact worse vs fini, even though you get 20-30% off as it doesn't fear leftovers/ black sludge recovery. That just makes natures madness fini far more irritating as it breaks through pex with ease.
Is there anyway at all Pex can beat SubCM Keldeo?
No Toxic status
No Toxic status
Haze
That doesnt work though. It takes 2-3 scald hit to break keldeo's sub. If it alternate between subbing - boost - attack then you'll run out of recover/ scald before it runs out of anything
Keldeo does practically nothing to Toxapex, so little damage you'll almost never need to Recover. The moment you use Haze is the moment the Keldeo's trainer knows it cannot set up.
Toxapex does not "beat" Keldeo, but the matchup is a battle of attrition in which Keldeo stands no chance.
Haze goes through sub, SUBCM Keldeo will never beat Toxapex unless it's Hyper Beam
What always happens in practice is that Keldeo, once its behind the sub, uses Scald until Toxapex is burned, then switches out to something that can deal with Toxic Spikes. In a 1v1 situation, the Keldeo can stall Toxapex out of Scald PP with Sub and burns it, but eventually loses the PP war. Even if burned, Toxapex will always Haze Keldeo after it gets to +1 and Keldeo cannot do enough damage to wear out Recover's PP.
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