Pokémon the starters role in the metagame

[mrglass]

Greninja will most certainly be OU

I feel like Delphox will have to compete with Pyroar for a spot in UU, but it did get a pretty good deal this gen, being one of only a handful of Fire types to have decent attacking stats AND speed over 100. And it got a pretty strong movepool as well. I definitely thing specs or LO Delphox will be a threat.

I honestly see no reason to use Chesnaught over Virizion or Breloom. I'd say RU at best.

The Kanto starters on the other hand all have a pretty good chance of OU. The only question is which are worth a mega slot. (Zard and Saur each have niches w/o Megas though)

 

[Aldrius]

And yeah, Delphox is pretty good. But just being "a fast Will O Wisp" isn't OU by any means.

I didn't say it was, I was mainly observing why those couple of speed points mattered. I don't really have experience enough to comment on what tier these pokemon are going to end up in. From what I understand, Delphox is just too outclassed by too many other things in OU to be in that tier.

From my perspective, I think the main thing holding Delphox back is a good movepool. It's special attacks are limited to Grass Knot (which is way too situational), it's STAB moves and Hidden Power. I feel like the combination of it's speed and attack power is too high for UU, but again, it's movepool just keeps it from effectively dealing with a lot of situations.

 

[NotSoClutch]

Source. Quote it. Please. The best I have are Hammer Arm and Low Sweep.

EDIT: and Brick Break.

saw it on the chesnaught uncharted territory page. I also saw woodhammer.

 

[Youngchris17]

either way they are all special in their own ways, but yes, virizion and breloom are in ou for the long run

 

[Mattman324]

saw it on the chesnaught uncharted territory page. I also saw woodhammer.

Where? I looked at the research thread, there is no Close Combat (and no Drain Punch, possibly more damning)

 

[NotSoClutch]

Where? I looked at the research thread, there is no Close Combat (and no Drain Punch, possibly more damning)

Not the research thread the uncharted territory thread. Like the one we are on now except for chesnaught specifically and not all of the starters. It may not be a reliable source, but it is where I got my information from.

 

[Youngchris17]

is chestnaught only physical for the most part?

 

[ApathyandToast]

Not the research thread the uncharted territory thread. Like the one we are on now except for chesnaught specifically and not all of the starters. It may not be a reliable source, but it is where I got my information from.

Given that Rapid Spin Greninja was taken from a thread in that same place, I wouldn't say it's a very reliable source.

 

[Youngchris17]

i think we can just all agree rapid spin is just a myth, either way greninja will still be present to punish pokemon like starmie, the lati twins, and the ever present menace gengar

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Just a nitpick, but not all starters are particularly great in all generations. In gen 1 for example, Blastoise is pretty much trash.

 

[NotSoClutch]

Just a nitpick, but not all starters are particularly great in all generations. In gen 1 for example, Blastoise is pretty much trash.

blastoise is better than charizard...blastoise is a very capable spinner in UU

 

[AccidentalGreed]

blastoise is better than charizard...blastoise is a very capable spinner in UU

Key phrase is "in Gen 1"

 

[Youngchris17]

Blasoise has been in like uu for life, his megalution might change that, besides his meh ability

 

[-Nitro-]

Well, the new ability and the movepool buff certainly helps. Dark Pulse, aura sphere, and dragon pulse are nice touches.

I just think they could of have him something better, he's still a solid wall, and plays a solid support role, but then again, what could they give m blastoise?

He's less support now. His only real support move that will see use is rapid spin. He's more akin to an offensive spinner like Starmie, only with less speed and more bulk. It boosts attacks by 1.5x damage, so same as STAB I believe. (Note: I might be mistaken on this.)

Where? I looked at the research thread, there is no Close Combat (and no Drain Punch, possibly more damning)

Someone here says that he gets drain punch through breeding with breloom. No screenshot though, so take it with a grain of salt. A site also lists Close combat, but again, no hard proof there yet.

I like Chesnaught a lot, concept wise. I just hope he gets Drain punch or close combat.
---
Additionally, Youngchris, there is an edit button on your posts that you should make use of, instead of making multiple posts. It helps keep the number of pages and posts in the topic down and makes it easier to read through. It keeps discussion much more compact and focused.

 

[Aldrius]

Btw, how much does wonderlauncher boost those attacks by?

20%-30% I think. Pretty significant. And it gets a lot of moves to take advantage of the boost.

 

[Icy_eagle]

all of the kanto starters will probably be ou, Charizard was lucky enough to get two different megalutions, but with fariy types coming into the meta game, i don't think charizard x will get as much use

btw I recommend stopping double and even triple posting. There's an edit button for a reason, it clutters the thread and I'm pretty sure it's against the rules

edit: nitro beat me to it. Didn't mean to harp on you or anything :)

 

[Youngchris17]

Thank you nitro, I'm still rather new to the smogon forums...


Sorry not trying to be a rebel or anything, I'm just a dumb newb is all

 

[PKMN1]

Btw, how much does wonderlauncher boost those attacks by?

It is Mega-Launcher for one thing, Wonder Launcher was the Item using thing in wi-fi battles. It supposedly increases the moves by 50%.

 

[Mattman324]

Someone here says that he gets drain punch through breeding with breloom. No screenshot though, so take it with a grain of salt. A site also lists Close combat, but again, no hard proof there yet.

Research thread, however, says this.

Sadly I can report that Chespin does not learn Drain Punch as an egg move. Just tried breeding with Mienfoo.

 

[skies]

Can you just use the edit button instead of double posting please? EDIT; wow greninja'd twiceeee. And also my two cents:
Ninja Frog:
OU for sure. Fast speed + Spikes + Protean + U-Turn is amazing! Bye bye infernape :)))
Majestic Witch:
I don't see how it isn't outclassed by gardevoir with the exception of speed? It has a better typing better bulk and a neutrality to stealth rock. Sorry fennekun fanboys, this thing won't make it to OU. And doesn't it learn Thundrtbolt for coverage?
The Best Starter Spiky Menace:
Sadly, my love for chenaught isn't enough to make it viable. I'll use it in any tier tbh bc fuck ubers. My bæ probably won't make it past RU because of the existence of verizion and Breloom, but I certainly see it as a viable subseeder! Sub / Seed / Drain Punch / Earthquake. Bomb.com tbh :)

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Youngchris17 It would also benefit you by straying away from making threads on topics like the viability of starters, as we look at Pokemon individually at a case-by-case basis rather than a label (such as starters and legendaries).

 

[Colonel M]

Blaziken will likely be Uber.

No one cares about the other starters.

 

[Youngchris17]

I'm just a dumb newb to smogon, sorry everyone

 

[Colonel M]

Without permanent sun? Doubtful. It has to waste at least 2 turns to be truly threatening with Protect and SD, plus one to come in. That's already 3 of 5 (or 8 if you run Heat Rock Ninetales or something else with Sunny Day) gone. Permanent sun was what pushed it beyond the line in BW, without it it's much easier to deal with.

Blaziken also got the prime combination that veered it banned back in Dreamworld Tier:

Baton Pass + Speed Boost.

 

[Mattman324]

Blaziken will likely be Uber.

No one cares about the other starters.

I wouldn't say that. Charizard has two usable mega evos, and can play mind games before mega evolving on the "Which one is it?" subject. Feraligatr just got Sheer Force, which makes him usable (Finally he can run things Gyarados can't that have nothing to do with SD or Aqua Jet!). Contrary Serperior is going to be a monster, even more so if Sticky Web becomes used. And some other starters might end up OU.

EDIT: Mega Venusaur can tank, Mega Blastoise has a massive spot for itself in the rapid spinning front in that no spinblocker can avoid dieing to it, Swampert is still Swampert and will probably be high UU, Infernape may go UU but he won't go silently, and Greninja looks interesting.