-Main STAB is completely neutered by Rain (even Special Defensive Celebi and Jirachi can set up on Heatran under Rain if it lacks Roar...)Can somebody explain why Heatran is not in A+ or even S?
I kinda agree, I do think it is the best hazards setter to date. However, it has a few fatal flaws. It's vulnerable to trick/taunt, most attacks at it are fire attacks, some of which can burn, and this could easily OHKO through sturdy. It has similar problems to be forretress, really. This is why I actually think donphan is completely underestimated on Sun, it's better than foretress imo. (I know how much people are gonna call me a noob for saying that about donphan. )Nominating Skarmory for A+
I believe Skarmory has all the necessary traits to qualify for A+.
As a HO lead, it can easily set up rocks and at LEAST one layer of spikes(although in my experience two is the average number of layers I can get) and STAB Brave Bird hits a lot of common leads in this meta hard.
As a defensive pivot, Skarmory walls a majority of the meta and can easily phaze out most set-up sweepers. It can also function on a multitude of teams, from sand stall to HO to even RAIN stall(which makes sense because it covers Skarmory's fire-type weaknesses).
Overall, Skarmory is simply too good not to be A+: it almost always succeeds in it's role and has great defensive synergy on the whole.
Yeah, he's talking about STALL, which will bring in its hazard setters on something it can threaten. Those rocks are definitely going up, and if the person playing the stall team is good, those hazards are DEFINITELY going up."there's nothing you can do about it except "apply offensive pressure," which we all know works great against stall (hint: those Spikes are still going up)."
I used to play no spinner sun a lot ( got top 10 on the smogon PO server with it back when Deoxys-D teams ran rampant ), and let me just say.. No, those spikes aren't going up. Ninetales alone pressures the majority of hazard setters and fast taunters are no spinner sun staples, which is also why it doesn't get destroyed by custapskarm teams, no spin sun is incredibly prediction reliant, but it's also really fun and it can be used to great success.
Is there anything Tyranitar can do better than other pokemon other than pursuit trapping?Look at the following carefully:Sand Stream is not Tyranitar's only niche. It's a fantastic Pursuit trapper, arguably the best we've got. Said Pursuit support is a big part of the reasoning that got Landorus-I kicked up to Ubers; Tyranitar's Pursuit decimated most of the things that could handle Landorus. Tyranitar also has great walling potential on the special side, can break through a bunch of enemies with a Choice Band set, and can net some interesting kills as a Scarfer.
Basically, Tyranitar is quite versatile and is probably the best Pursuit trapper we have. I'm not sold on dropping it yet.
How can it sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame?If Tyranitar had like 110 speed or something with the Special Defense and attacking stats it currently has,I would say it is a definite S ranker.But it has terrible speed for an offensive pokemon.You may think that that is forgivable since it has quite nice bulk in Sandstorm,and that means Tyranitar can kind of be a bulky attacker,but it's weaknesses holds it back from being a good one.Of Politoed,Hippowdon,and Tyranitar,its obvious that Tyranitar always dies the fastest,even though it has better bulk than Politoed.I cannot stress this enough;it's defensive typing holds it back from being the bulky attacker it has always wanted to be.S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.
Being the best Pursuit Trapper (really imo, the only one who's reliable at all...) + bringing one of the best weather effects in the game should be more than enough really...Is there anything Tyranitar can do better than other pokemon other than pursuit trapping?
You mean that ridiculously trolly Speed that lets it get past uninvested Scizor and one shot it with Fire Blast with a tiny bit of investment if it feels like it? The same trolly Speed that just jumps over Starmie when Jolly 252 Scarf-- allowing it to outspeed and kill all its major targets with ease? Not to mention Smash through most of the tier's Speed, non-scarfed threats?How can it sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame?If Tyranitar had like 110 speed or something with the Special Defense and attacking stats it currently has,I would say it is a definite S ranker.But it has terrible speed for an offensive pokemon.
I would totally disagree. Tyranitar's monster bulk takes on even super effective special attacks and brings down key enemy threats like Latios, Latias, and Starmie with such reliability-- I almost feel like it's broken at times. The fact that it can switch into these top threats and bring them down almost irregardless of anything they do almost seems ridiculous. The fact that it actually has the advantage against Pokemon like Tentacruel and Celebi, who are faster and have super effective STAB attacks, is incredible in my book.You may think that that is forgivable since it has quite nice bulk in Sandstorm,and that means Tyranitar can kind of be a bulky attacker,but it's weaknesses holds it back from being a good one.Of Politoed,Hippowdon,and Tyranitar,its obvious that Tyranitar always dies the fastest,even though it has better bulk than Politoed.I cannot stress this enough;it's defensive typing holds it back from being the bulky attacker it has always wanted to be.
^This paragraph is as indecipherable as it is unconvincing-- totally lacking in clear logic and support.Lets talk about the sets it runs:Mixed,Band,Scarf and Sp.Def.In my opinion,it's Mixed set is the least outclassed one out there,and it attains powerful coverage and becomes near-uncounterable,especially since Tyranitar's common checks,Lando-T and Hippowdon,get hit pretty hard with Ice Beam.The only reason you'd use the Band set is because it lets you OHKO Ninetales when burned,gives you a powerful pursuit to trap things,and do good damage to Politoed and like 40%~ to Hippowdon,and is the third most useful set in my opinion.Really,other than these things,you have absolutely no reason to use this thing over Terrakion.The second most useful is the scarf set,and it's main use is to get off a Crunch on things like Latios and Celebi who think they can 2HKO you as you switch in or Baton Pass away safely respectively.It's defensive set is horrible IMO.Once again,it's defensive typing is so horrible that EVERY OFFENSIVE THREAT IN OU HAS A SUPER EFFECTIVE MOVE AGAINST IT.It's main niche is to avoid the 2HKO from Specs Latios,which it can't OHKO with Pursuit (not even close).
Yeah. That speaks for itself.
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.
No.TYRANITAR FOR A+.
At the end of the day, Tyranitar brings with it one of the most dominant and influential weathers (while being the BEST weather producer stat and movepool-wise), and Pursuit-kills very important enemies with an almost unfair degree of ease and reliability. The Sand it brings can make a Terrakion paired with it an incredible menace. Once Tyranitar has broken all your opponent's sashes and multiscales, Pursuited key threats and giving teammates a clear opportunity to sweep, all while reliably setting up SR and fucking over the most common Spinners trying to get rid of it, and throwing Ferrothorn or Scizor the odd Fire Blast to the face-- it still makes for some decent death fodder; robbing your enemy of their valuable weather and racking up some nice SS damage one last time.At the end of the day,the only reason you would use it is because of Sand Stream and Pursuit.Other than that,it's completely outclassed by Terrakion.Don't kid yourself,once the Sand is up,and Pursuiting is done,Tyranitar becomes total death fodder.And if it's Pursuit didn't clear way for huge threats such as Keldeo and Landorus-I,I would consider it to drop from even A+,below Hippowdon,and into A-.
I was talking about stall too.. You're severely overestimating how hard it is to prevent hazards with offensive pressure vs stallYeah, he's talking about STALL, which will bring in its hazard setters on something it can threaten. Those rocks are definitely going up, and if the person playing the stall team is good, those hazards are DEFINITELY going up.
OiawesomeDG
The problem with Garchomp, tbh, stems from its STABs. While it has an excellent STAB combo, both of them have very exploitable drawbacks. First off, Outrage locks you in, so setup sweeping garchomp can function only with good prediction against something like ground- immunity and steel-type(for example, rotom w and jirachi), and it CANNOT judt play around it due to fear of being locked in. While it's not as much of a problem on choice sets, Earthquake is, due to the ubiquity of Ground-immunities, and you need to hit steels with it, so too much prediction.
I'm kind of iffy on garchomp for S-rank.
Lets take sandstall for example. Hippo switches in first turn, HOW are you going to prevent thise hazards? Because most teams are fucked as soon as they go on the field. I could give many more examples, such as lando t, heatran, etc that can easily set up rocks against sun.I was talking about stall too.. You're severely overestimating how hard it is to prevent hazards with offensive pressure vs stall
I use a taunt lead.. And your main gameplan is not giving their hazard setters an opportunity to switch in when you play no spinner sun..Lets take sandstall for example. Hippo switches in first turn, HOW are you going to prevent thise hazards? Because most teams are fucked as soon as they go on the field. I could give many more examples, such as lando t, heatran, etc that can easily set up rocks against sun.
Taunt leads only lead lol. They do not stay throughout the match, and the aforementioned setters are quite bulky, so they can take many hits. The second the lead is dead, rocks can and will get up.I use a taunt lead.. And your main gameplan is not giving their hazard setters an opportunity to switch in when you play no spinner sun..
The only real troubling SR setter is lead aero, though if you're willing to run sableye or scarf mamo you could remedy even that
You identify their hazard setters at team preview and make sure they never get an opportunity to get in on something that can't 2HKO it,Taunt leads only lead lol. They do not stay throughout the match, and the aforementioned setters are quite bulky, so they can take many hits. The second the lead is dead, rocks can and will get up.
Edit-im done arguing, tired :c
Putting this out there from page 148.Update
Tyranitar up from A+ rank ==> S rank
This change a reflection of the obvious direction the metagame is heading towards. BW OU is still a matchup heavy meta, but sand is unquestionably the most consistent team style, and consistency wins games. Top players have been claiming sand is superior to rain for months now, and i've just kind of been oblivious to the whole thing. Oh well!
Frankly, this change has been long overdue.
You need Politoed for rain, sand still has hippo, which is honestly just a lot better even on offensive teams right now>tyranitar for A+
that means Politoed should also be A+. It can only spam Hydro Pump or go on the defensive route with moves like Encore. Tyranitar can only pursuit trap or set up stealth rock.
Debatable. Subjective.Being the best Pursuit Trapper (really imo, the only one who's reliable at all...) + bringing one of the best weather effects in the game should be more than enough really...
Abomasnow is an anti-meta pokemon and can indeed mess up the other weather inducers, but I don't think he's good enough for A- rank. He easily has THE worst defensive typing out of all the weather inducers. Ice may make for a nice offensive STAB, but it comes with a ton of weaknesses. While he does have the STAB to beat some of the other weather inducers, he's only faster than Hippowodon. Tyranitar (who has 1 base speed higher) can easily OHKO Abomasnow. Ninetales too can easily beat Abomasnow. A choice specs Politoed can OHKO Abomasnow with focus blast as well. Assuming Abomasnow isn't scarfed or something, he can really only reliably take on Hippowdon, who probably wouldn't even stay in.Nominating Abomasnow for A- rank
With his ability he can easily remove the other three weathers and neuter tons of weather-reliant Pokemon ( Starmie, Keldeo, Volcarona, Tentacruel, Venusaur, Sawsbuck, Cresselia, Lilligant, Tornadus etc.). Not only that but he can also beat politoed, tyranitar and hippowdon with his stabs. That is huge. Then you can pair Abomasnow with an eb keldeo knowing hail (to beat Ninetales) and you're in business.
Also, Abomasnow has good attacking stats and wide coverage in Wood Hammer, Hidden Power Fire, Earthquake and Blizzard, but most importantly Ice Shard. He can use that priority move to remove some dragons from the match (Weakened lati@s, mence, nite (with SR) and chomp), tornadus, thundurus-t and landorus-t. He can also use a very annoying SubSeed set.
Hail is extremely underrated, too. Kyurem is a frightening hail abuser (especially the Scarf set) since it can now use Blizzard, while Walrein can stall opponents ad infinitum with ice body and its natural bulk. Hail also negates Leftovers unless the holder is an ice-type (and the only one that could use lefties would be kyurem-b).