I've always considered them tanks (Though I think with AV torn-t, I just call it a support mon since it doesn't take a variety of hits). Slowbro has good recovery, but it cannot stall by itself as regenerator requires reliance on other pokemon to be able to switch in so you can gain health back. You're also at four attacks, so it is very easy to call it an attacking tank even with all of that bulk. But case and point is slowbro needs a lot of help to stall (generally just switches) and cannot just sit in and wall pokes.Would you consider Assault Vest Regenerator Pokemon to be "walls" or "tanks". Regenerator can be seen as a means of reliable recovery, although no one would reasonably consider Assault Vest Tornadus-T to be a "wall".
Now, I was always told that semi-stall had a specific build. I was looking for a thread about the specifics and requirements that made it different but couldn't find anything better than that. My own definition of semi-stall was close to balance: 3 offensive pokemon and a defensive core. If I remember correctly, the core was supposed to set up to provide synergy with the sweepers to draw attacks they could take and switch into (Or even force out threats), providing little cost for the offensive pokes. This was something I was told a few years ago when I started picking up stall as a side interest. I haven't seen a thread on it, ever.I think the defining difference between "Stall" and "Semi-Stall" is that the later has the specific intention to set up an offensive win condition to finish the game.
Stall wins battles by defensive design-- by always having a good switch-in and answer to anything the opponent can throw at you; this can mean hazards as a win condition, but it doesn't have to. As long as your main means of winning sits mostly on countering everything, you're a stall team. This could be hazards, but it doesn't have to be-- so long as your intention is to win through a drawn out battle allowed by a well built defensive core.
Semi-stall uses a stall-like defensive core to set up an offensive-based win condition. This difference in intent is the decisive difference between the two.
ajwf-- you quoted jibaku in saying that the definition between "bulky offense", "stall," and "balanced" is blurred, but his same post also states that a semi-stall team is not a stall team at all.
This is the truth, the heart of the matter. Because a semi-stall team is more similar to a hazard-setting offensive team than to a true stall team in its nature-- the only difference is you're not using Custap Skarm to do all the dirty work, but using a defensive core of Lefties Spiking Skarm, Spin-blocking Jellicent, and Double Screens Latias to do it instead. Either way, you're building a team meant to set up for a sweep to win the game.
I'd say that if a team's main intention is to set up an offensive win condition, it's semi-stall.
If the defensive core of the team is the main focus with wins made through good countering, even if there are 1 or 2 offensive Pokemon just tacked on for utility/back-up plan/whatever, it's a stall team.
Is the Sand Rush Stoutland the win condition? Or is it just a nice back-up plan/revenge killer for pokes weakened through the endurance battle?
There in-lies the defining difference. It does come down to the builder's intention.
That's semi-stall? My God I need to up my game. I thought stall could get away with one potential sweeper.While it is possible to create teams with multiple different win conditions (the example you gave would be classed as balance), semistall doesn't fit into that. Semistall basically is a pure stall team, with typically just one offensive Pokemon which abuses the accumulating residual damage to sweep or wallbreak in the mid- or late-game. Think of it as a stall team that sacrifices an extra wall or support mon in favour of being able to end a game more quickly.
Well, its nearest analogue, to me, sigh, is Rotom-W, although Weezing has higher physical defense. Of course, Rotom-W has Pain Split and Will-O-Wisp, a fear of Mold Breaker Excadrill, but of course, the washing machine better offensive moves.Saw someone in SPL running weezing to pretty good effect (actually did work). I'm not sure how much bending a team you'd have to do to fit weezing, but a ground/fairy resist could be helpful.
I don't think a specific build is required to be semi-stall (or anything really... teams are too flexible for that...). Originally semi-stall was just what we called teams in DPP that combined something like SkarmBliss + Rotom-A (spin blocker) with setup sweepers that could abuse the hazard support.I've always considered them tanks (Though I think with AV torn-t, I just call it a support mon since it doesn't take a variety of hits). Slowbro has good recovery, but it cannot stall by itself as regenerator requires reliance on other pokemon to be able to switch in so you can gain health back. You're also at four attacks, so it is very easy to call it an attacking tank even with all of that bulk. But case and point is slowbro needs a lot of help to stall (generally just switches) and cannot just sit in and wall pokes.
Now, I was always told that semi-stall had a specific build. I was looking for a thread about the specifics and requirements that made it different but couldn't find anything better than that. My own definition of semi-stall was close to balance: 3 offensive pokemon and a defensive core. If I remember correctly, the core was supposed to set up to provide synergy with the sweepers to draw attacks they could take and switch into (Or even force out threats), providing little cost for the offensive pokes. This was something I was told a few years ago when I started picking up stall as a side interest. I haven't seen a thread on it, ever.
The issue is, some teams would be able to argue multiple win conditions. If you're running heatran and terrakion, your wincon could be just to eliminate everything with EQ and see what works better: Toxic stalling or going for a terrakion sweep. Does a team style then change game to game, where terrakion is sometimes a wall breaker, sometimes an SD sweeper? I'm in personal agreement that semi-stall really is just a style for anything not directly categorized as bulky offense, balanced or some more offensive based stall. It almost feels as if smogon never addresses it, as there is so very little to read on it and absolutely no consensus on what it truly is.