The Beginners Guide to RBY

Vineon

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Amazing Ampharos said:
It seems to me that in the GSC days where OHKOs were clearly broken that people decided to ban them in all generations which is stupid. Basically, banning OHKOs in RBY is like banning Wobbuffet in GSC.
Late rby metagame actually had them banned, before gsc started, same goes for evasion and ubers, but yeah rby ohkos are very counterable and I also think it is silly to ban them.

But the comparaison to gsc wobbuffet is entirely off. gsc wobbuffet is nothing, while rby ohkos can still be useful and break down a game (see lucky dugtrio).
 

JMC

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BTW, Where is Confuse Ray on Lapras?

Also, one of my reasons why OHKO's shouldn't be used: Horn Drill/Fissure Tauros over Blizzard. Who wants their full-health Snorlax against a 15% health Tauros lose to Horn Drill? Not I.

Also, I'm not that much of a fan of calling it Hip's tier list either since he basically (and claimed he did) copied it from my topic at gamefaqs. :P
 

Vineon

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well chances are you'll have a 100% lax still and tauros will miss and die when it could have hyper beamed your lax, and maybe even score a critical hit.
 
The chance of scoring a CH with Hyper Beam and taking Snorlax to really low health (KO range of anything, yeah...) is actually just around 5% less than the chance of scoring an OHKO, actually... though if Gengar or Rhydon comes in, Horn Drill will still hit those, so you don't have to predict with it, to be fair. Edit: Make that Fissure, for Gengar.

Anyway since I guess this will be discussed here, I'll add that yeah, OHKO snipes can work to, like, help break sweeps/stalls, which wasn't something people hated I heard, but generally only are "good" on Tauros and Dugtrio which both work just as well (or better) without OHKOs anyway (though I think Vineon disagrees with me on Dugtrio, maybe... yeah, Dugtrio should be moved up a tier... oh well).
 
Ok, there's still lucky trio, but if you crunch the numbers he'll be killing far more with EQ. This also assumes they are using Dugtrio which is a big risk in and of itself as he is way into UU territory so by using that OHKO strat, they are putting their whole team into much bigger danger than they are putting yours into. Dugtrio's only getting one shot at fissure unless he comes in on a jolt anyway(Zapdos is conveniently immune, and I would not like to think how much poor Dugtrio with his bad defense and worse HP is going to take from that DP if Zappy is brave enough to stay in), and if the jolt stays in for some odd reason than you are guaranteed not to hit it.

I think Pidgeot and Vineon have the winning point for that Tauros thing. Would you rather do a lot of damage, potentially enough to make Snorlax an all but dead Pokemon if you CH which is a pretty likely thing for RBY Tauros, or roll the dice on some OHKO shot while losing some important type coverage making Tauros far less dangerous overall?

My point about the GSC Wobbuffet was not to claim that they were equally good as GSC Wobbuffet was about like GSC Unown and only better once he got Mimic via NYPC. OHKOs can do something; they just aren't likely. The point was that it seemed to be a ban that was crossing a generation gap where it really doesn't apply at all.

Hmm, I find it odd that they would be banned in late RBY. Was Fissureros really dominant or something? If he's using Fissure over Blizzard and that becomes common, than Aero has suddenly found a niche as he can make that thing very unhappy.

I think it comes down to the question: why do we ban stuff? As I see it, there is only one legitimate reason to ban something: it's broken. It's why we have uber bans in all generations. However, it should be noted that we only ban those Pokemon who are indeed uber. Note how Celebi, despite being incredibly annoying in all generations concerned, is not banned because despite how much we all hate him, he's not really broken. Even if we hate RBY OHKOs and find them very annoying, there's no way to argue they're broken; they are usable at best, and only then on 2 Pokemon who, as Pidgeot said, are at least as good if not better without them. We can build fantasy scenarios where OHKOs could be frustrating, but we could do that with any move. Wouldn't you hate it if you sent in a low health Chansey in on an enemy chansey that just couldn't finish you off with Ice Beam and it instead Hyper Beamed you in a complete defiance of all standard principles for the kill and since Chansey was your last Pokemon you lost? I might be using an inflated example, but that's how the Tauros Fissuring a Snorlax example looked to me. It leaves out Tauros getting owned by all those Pokemon who it would have otherwise Blizzard'd, and it leaves out how he misses 70% of the time assuming he's faster, and if he's slower he always misses.
 

Jackal

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ty mekkah. Also the counter thing is pretty important. I never got around to editing this which I should have, I just really don't have the time atm.
 

X-Act

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VERY good guide. Really good.

I want to suggest just a small improvement, however.

The Critical Hit Ratio is figured out by dividing the pokemon's base speed divided by 2 divided by 256.
[Base Speed / 2 / 256]
Can't you just say:

The Critical Hit Ratio is figured out by dividing the pokemon's base speed by 512.
[Base Speed / 512]

This is overall simpler. Also

For these moves the formula is Base Speed times 4 divided by 256.
[Base Speed * 4 / 256]
You can just say

For these moves, the formula is Base Speed divided by 64.
[Base Speed / 64]

since it's simpler. Excellent guide though.
 

cloud

groove, slam, work it back, filter that baby, bump
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Cool. I'm just starting out in RBY; this was of help.
 

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