Battle Spot Talonflame gives me a hard time.

[jroxas]

I’ve played a couple dozen games with this team and I'm pretty much running .500 and staying slightly above 1500.

I haven’t done much battling since Gen I, so I’m pretty new to this. Starmie has long been one of my favorites, though, and from what I’ve read it’s at least mildly viable, so I used it as the starting point for my team. A “good cores” thread said that Charizard-Mega-X and a good grass-type made good partners, so I added those. I went with Ferrothorn as my Grass-type, figuring it could swap in for Starmie to wall stuff.

I lacked the knowledge and experience to fill out the rest of the team in a deliberately thought-out way, so I just decided to fill the team out with some of what appear to be the all-around bests - Kangaskhan-Mega, Garchomp, and Gengar.

So to recap, team is Starmie, Charizard-X, Ferrothorn, Kangaskhan-Mega, Garchomp, Gengar. Movesets and such can be found below.

If the opponent’s team only has 0-1 things that outright crush Garchomp, I choose a team of Garchomp, Starmie/Gengar, and whichever of the two mega-evolvers I think would work better. In these situations Garchomp usually just runs them over.

When they have two or more things that give Garchomp a hard time, I usually run a team with Starmie or Gengar as the opener (Starmie 75% of the time), Ferrothorn (sometimes Gengar if Ferrothorn is vulnerable to too much of their team), and Charizard (occasionally Kangaskhan if they don’t seem well-prepared for it).

Starmie is hit-or-miss but I feel like a lot of the “miss” comes from my unfamiliarity with opposing movesets and lack of good swap-ins on my team (Ferrothorn hasn’t worked out in this role as well as I thought). Usually, Starmie 2HKOs their starter narrowly surviving an attack, then gets a hit off on the next thing before getting KO’d. A couple times it’s single-handedly beaten their entire team. A couple of times it just got 1HKO’d for free; I guess I just need to get a feel for avoiding those cases. The biggest issue has been opponents who open on Talonflame, since it turns out Starmie doesn’t survive a Brave Bird. (Note: my Starmie doesn’t have a max HP IV, but I don’t think that would save it.) Unless I’m mistaken, Ferrothorn unfortunately does poorly swapping into Talonflame. Should I always open with Garchomp if they might run Talonflame?

(Also, I’d prefer to run an Analytic Starmie, but I haven’t found a way to get ahold of one. Any help on this?)

Gengar often does well as the starter when they don’t have something faster than it. “Living the dream” is for Gengar to 2HKO their starter, then Destiny Bond whatever comes next. However, most people are well-prepared to beat him, so his actual performance is often underwhelming.

The Garchomp build has been doing fine, but I’m thinking of switching to a Choice Scarf-Outrage setup.

Ferrothorn has single-handedly walled out two or three of my opponents, but otherwise hasn’t done very well. Like I said before, I’d intended for it to be a swap-in, especially against Swords Dancers who manage to get set up, but it hasn’t ever really worked out that way.

Charizard hasn’t done too well either; it feels like everything is faster. I don’t think it’s ever KO’d anything for me outside of a few revenge kills. Maybe I should go for a bulkier build?

Kangaskhan has done okay when I’ve used him. I pretty much always have him go last in hopes of having gotten rid of as much as possible that gives him a hard time. I’ve been pretty terrible at knowing when I can use Sucker Punch, but I guess that will come with experience.

TL;DR:

• Most of my wins come from Garchomp having a field day or Starmie/Gengar gets a 2-for-1. The other three have been disappointing to average.
• Talonflame gives me a hard time.
• I’d like to keep using Starmie in some form if possible; everything else is negotiable.

I have Alpha Sapphire and X. I foolishly got Latias, Terrakion, and Cressellia before I started paying attention to nature and IVs so they’re out of the question. I still haven’t gotten Heatran and Thundurus, so if either of them would be helpfulI might be willing to drive myself insane soft-resetting.

If there's a way to use this as a base for VGC, that'd also be great. I'm willing to reset X to catch a good Xerneas. I haven't checked my Kyogre but it probably wouldn't be ideal in any way.

P.S. Is it normal that I’ve played exclusively against Japanese players? I’m NA and play during NA prime time.

Starmie @ Life Orb
Timid, Natural Cure
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Surf
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Dazzling Gleam

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Jolly, Blaze
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Flare Blitz
Dragon Claw
Roost
Dragon Dance

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Relaxed, Iron Barbs
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Gyro Ball
Power Whip
Leech Seed
Protect

Gengar @ Focus Sash
Timid, Levitate
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Shadow Ball
Sludge Bomb
Focus Blast
Destiny Bond

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Jolly, Rough Skin
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Rock Slide
Swords Dance

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Adamant, Scrappy
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Power-Up Punch
Double-Edge
Sucker Punch
Earthquake

Thanks!

 

[Omastar68]

Well, Im not sure this is quite the right format for an RMT(normally people have pictures, and a paragraph or two detailing why you picked that Pokemon, what its supposed to do and stuff like that, under its set.) Still, I have some ideas. Psychic>Dazzling Gleam for Starmie. Psychic has quite a bit more power, and also hits fighting tyoes(while per the vast majority of dragons are hit harder by Ice Beam than DG.) Psychic also smacks Mega Venusaur for big damage, which Starmie can't do normally. Analytic is a pretty good ability if you don't see yourself getting statused often(wouldn't try some weird bulky Rest NC Starmie, though maybe,) and I can get you a flawless one w/ it(spent a while in Omega Ruby fishing for Staryu.) Another really fun idea for Starmie(I think), is a bulky Reflect Type set to ditch that nasty typing(sorry Ferrothorn, I 4x resist Power Whip now and am immune to Leech Seed.) Such a set would utilize Lefties, so you'd have to change the item on Ferrothorn to run it.

Char X seems fine bar the EVs(max EVs on two stats w/ 4 elsewhere is rarely optimal, even if you can usually get away w/ it.) This goes for all your Pokes, so just run some calcs(or else look for them elsewhere and see what EVs other folks run for these Pokes.)

Ferrothorn seems reasonable(you got a 0 Spe IV, right?), but I'd run Stealth Rock over Protect(well, actually I'd change the nature to Impish, 31 Spe IV, and Iron Head>Gyro Ball and T-Wave>Protect. 108 Spe IVs outspeeds everything w/ 219 Spe and paralyzed and lower.)

Gengar looks ok, really not much you can change. WoW is an option, but it's more for Mega Gengar since that's at least relatively bulky.

Garchomp usually runs Outrage, so maybe put that instead of Dragon Claw. Unless you do T-Wave w/ Ferro, ditch Rock Slude for Stone Edge(quite a bit more power and a better crit chance, but slightly less accuracy and a lot less PP) or Rock Tomb(lowering speed is yum, especially for Garchomp. Lower damage sucks, but the rock type coverage move is Chomp's weakest move for the most part anyways, so it don't matter too much.)

Kang's set is perfectly fine. There's a pretty long list of other moves you could try w/ it, but yours are the most standard, so no one can really complain about them.

One other thing I forgot is move the 4 Def to SpD on Starmie(unless 4 Def actually accomplishes something) for Download Pokes(really this is limited to Porygon2, which I think should be running Trace, but still.)

Hope that helps some, I like rating teams.

 

[jroxas]

Psychic is a good call, since it seems just about everyone has Gengar and fighting types to battle Kang.

I remember Googling something that said the only way to get Analytic on a Staryu/Starmie was to import from a previous generation. If it's possible to DexNav I'll go and do that.

Yeah, I should probably run Outrage. Breeding Gabites just takes forever so I've been lazy about it :( I think you're right about Rock Slide too, I'll try that.

What's the best method for doing calcs?

Thanks a lot, that was all really helpful! So I don't need to make any big changes to deal with Talonflame better?

 

[Omastar68]

You can DexNav for Staryu once you find it in Lilycove bay with a Super Rod, but it's extremely rare, while Wailmer is extremely common(if you haven't got Staryu yet, then look for it while training HO w/ all those stupid Wailmer that show up.)

What does breeding Gabites have to do with getting Outrage? Outrage is a Move Tutor move(sounds like you're ORAS,) so you can get it that way, no need to breed for it.

Just google "Pokemon Damage Calculator" first thing that shows up is the Pokemon Showdown one, so you can just use that. Just put in what the Pokemon is, the set, and if there's ore stuff like it's sunny or the foe has got Reflect up. In theory you should be fine vs Talon, though you may want to EV Starmie in a way that it survives BB, assuming this doesn't take away too much from its damage output. If you put EVs in HP(which would probably be best if you're gonna try to live Talon's BB-are you looking at CB BB? That's what I always calc w/, though I basically never see it-you really want a perfect HP IV, so breed for flawless. You can get a Ditto from a GA on here-I got an HP Ice one and a flawless one from Most .)

 

[cant say]

Yeah definitely swap Dazzling Gleam for Psychic or Psyshock on Starmie. A lot of Starmie actually go for broke with Minimize + Recover (and Natural Cure incase they get Toxic'd), it's not a set I'd recommend to beginners though as it just relies on luck.

Using both Charizard-X and Garchomp on your team is compounding Dragons, admittedly Char-X doesn't struggle as hard against Fairies but it's still annoying and just makes your opp wanna bring Sylveon or Azumarill to the match. I would therefore recommend you replace one of your Dragons with Rotom-W. It helps against Azumarill a lot (Sylveon still kinda annoys it but Ferro can fight it if it lacks HP Fire), as well as Talonflame which you said is the biggest hurdle for your team. As for a set, I'm partial to the Choice Specs one but that can be tricky for beginners as well, so maybe try the standard Sitrus Berry one?

Rotom-W set

Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power Ice
- Thunderbolt / Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp

Breeding this can be annoying so definitely get one of those Ditto that Omastar was talking about. It will be worth it!

Both Charizard and Garchomp should use Outrage instead of Dragon Claw, especially Zard as it's Jolly. If you keep Garchomp then change Rocky Helmet to Focus Sash and make give Gengar its mega stone. On the contrary, if you keep Charizard then Gengar can keep the Focus Sash.

I have to disagree with Omastar on dropping Protect on Ferrothorn, as it's really good if you're using both Leftovers and Leech Seed. However, you may want to consider using Rocky Helmet on him instead. You can then drop Protect for Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock or Knock Off, and potentially use Impish with Iron Head (ignore Omastar's EV spread, it's not worth using that much speed).

---

PS Omastar68 - Analytic is used for increased power on switches, not for underspeeding things and hitting harder like you suggested. However, Natural Cure is generally better (and usage stats reflect this) so you can get rid of unwanted Paralysis, Sleep or Toxic Poison...

 

[jroxas]

If I replace Charizard, might Rotom-H be better than Rotom-W to let me keep fire coverage?

 

[cant say]

If I replace Charizard, might Rotom-H be better than Rotom-W to let me keep fire coverage?

Yeah, but it can't beat Azumarill at all so make sure you either have Gengar with its Focus Sash intact, or Ferrothorn (and Azu doesn't have Superpower) in your team.

 

[NOVED]

It's definitely normal to only play japanese players, they dominate the population of the ladder.

On your Garchomp set, I think a few optimizations could be made. Like cant say already said, I think Outrage over Dragon Claw is a solid change. In 3v3 the extra damage from Outrage is really useful. Also, since you're using Rocky Helmet I think the best way to utilize that is by running some defense. An EV spread of 52 Atk/204 Def/252 Spe gives you much more physical bulk to abuse with helmet, and you have enough attack investment to 2hko Mega kang. Since you have SD the lack of atk investment here wont be too much of an issue imo, the rocky helmet/skin damage will also make up for the lack of investment. And the extra defense will help a bit more against talonflam as well. I'd also try using Rock Tomb like Omastar suggested, the speed drops really come in handy and you don't really lose any 2hko's that you wouldve had with Rock Slide.

I'd also suggest willowisp over Focus Blast on Gengar. I just think willowisp has a lot more targets than Focus Blast does. And Focus Blast is a really shaky move to be using as is. The targets for FB just arent incredibly common, but there will be targets for willo in almost every game.

For your talonflame weakness, a bulky electric type would be really useful. I think Rotom-H could be a good option for dealing with it. It could be a solid replacement for Zard X. Without Zard X, your team has a noticeable ferrothorn weakness, so rotom-h as a replacement makes sure that doesn't happen. You could run a choice specs set on it or a bulkier version with sitrus berry similar to the rotom-w set cant say posted above.

You should consider running Scald over Surf on starmie, the chance to burn is much more valuable than the extra 10 BP. Also recover is a great move for starmie as well, though admittedly it's tough to fit on. All the offensive moves are really nice to have. And i also agree with Psychic over Gleam like the others have said. There really isnt anything notable to hit with gleam. But if you ever do want to try recover I think Tbolt would be the best replacement. With recover you can still take on Suicune by hitting it neutrally with Psychic STAB and recovering off its not very effective moves. Now that I think about Psyshock may the better option in that case to take on Calm Mind suicune.