SS LC TALLS: The Anti-Ladder Ladder Squad

Berks · Apr 8, 2021

TALLS: The Anti-Ladder Ladder Squad

NOW WITH 25% MORE COLOR
The last time I posted an LC RMT, I had gotten reqs by laddering for the first time ever. It was the third time I had voted in an LC suspect, though, because we used to do suspect tours (and my old RP Cranidos team carried me through those old school qualifiers). This time, I’m back with a team that I built on a whim, tinkered with for a bit, and then used to get suspect reqs on both the Vullaby suspect ladder and the Woobat suspect ladder! Last vote got me my fancy new badge, the first I’ve gotten in years, and brought some color back to this lifeless gray badgeset. I’m also now twins with xzern, which is 1) neat; and 2) surely a blow to my former clone Nineage. This is easily the best SS ladder team I’ve built yet. Every mon on the Squad runs something that your average ladder player simply does not see coming, which means it actually makes laddering fun!! Who knew?

COULD U BE SUGGESTING...
:croagunk:

On January 21, 2021, esteemed user Shrug was active in the LC Discord, musing on potential cores, when the following exchange took place:

The thought of a Nasty Plot Croagunk with Knock Off interested me, and Grookey is phenomenal right now, so it seemed natural to try this idea out.

:croagunk:

In the chat, Shrug posited that the next two Pokemon on a theoretical gunker/grook team would be Vullaby and a Foongus-killer. Vullaby is a no-brainer: it’s an amazing Foongus switch-in and the best blanket check in the metagame. It seemed like running anything other than standard Physical Pivot Vull with U-turn ran an opportunity cost! As my secondary Foongus-killer, I picked Ponyta-Galar. I have been big on Pony-G ever since it came out, but I’ve never really been able to make it work. This team concept seemed like the perfect opportunity to play to Pony-G’s strengths – great coverage, great speed, and Psychic STAB. Because Croagunk and Grookey dislike Ferroseed, I originally opted for a Life Orb 4 Attacks Pony-G that ran Zen Headbutt, High Horsepower, Play Rough, and Mystical Fire. As you’ll see later, this set didn’t last long.

:croagunk:

Once again, we go back to the Shrug log. Onix is the obvious rocker for this four-mon composition that hard loses to NP Vullaby. I opted for my favorite Onix rocks set, the BJ Endure set, because it is the most consistent set for ladder play. It runs Rock Blast for Weak Armor Vullaby and because my pick for the last Pokemon, Scarf Magnemite, handles Woobat very well. Now that I’ve spoiled the surprise, Scarf Magnemite is probably the surprise star of this team. Mag has been the wincon in probably 80% of the ~150 ladder games I’ve played with this team. It pairs incredibly well with Grookey, too, because it feasts on Ground-less teams while Grookey abuses the Ground-full teams. Basically, if the opposing team didn’t have a Ground-type, it was an auto-win.

:timburr:

Playtesting the team revealed the reason why NP Knock Off Croagunk is so rare: it is not good. I found myself struggling to break Ferroseed and still somehow losing to Foongus/Pawniard cores. Ice Punch Timburr joined the team in Croagunk’s stead, and that immediately took the team up to an 11. As it turns out, people on the ladder have no idea how to play against a 25/15 Timburr with 17 Attack – they think FastFoo beats it! Timburr freed up my midgame plans, gave me a sturdier answer to Scraggy, Pawniard, and Tyrunt, and gave me a great way to surprise Foongus, Natu, and Woobat with an Iron Fist-boosted Ice Punch.

TALLS: The Anti-Ladder Ladder Squad
a
:ss/timburr:

This is a nice, chunky Timburr set around which most ladder players cannot seem to wrap their heads. Throughout my two ladder runs with this team, I often found that my entire midgame was getting Timburr in against Ferroseed and then watching my opponent lose their mind trying to deal with it. I run the standard three Timburr moves, Drain/Knock/Mach, and opted for Ice Punch because I found that Woobat and Foongus were putting more pressure on the team than I would’ve liked. Ice Punch does 10 to +2 252+ Def Woobat, which kept standard Woobat in range of Magnemite’s Thunderbolt at +3 SpD, and it gives Timburr 1) a guaranteed 2HKO on Foongus if it Ice Punches twice and Rocks are up; and 2) about a 3/4 chance to 2HKO Foongus with Knock Off into Ice Punch. Of course, these calcs are only possible with Iron Fist, which is why I switched from my original choice, Guts.

This is, in my opinion, the best overall Grookey set at the moment. You can argue that Drain Punch has more utility on this team considering that Ferroseed is only really manageable if Timburr is alive, but the whole midgame strategy against Ferro squads is U-turning out of Ferroseed with Grookey... so yeah. Protect is a solid tech that invalidates Trapinch, which is basically essential to this team considering how weak to it Pony-G and Mag are. It’s very fun to Protect on the First Impression and watch your opponent try to find a Wood Hammer switch-in. Basically, Grookey does Grookey things. On this squad, it’s a breaker more than a cleaner.

I know that earlier I mentioned using U-turn Pivot Vull on this squad. The problem was that Spore immunity wasn’t exactly a great Foongus switch-in, and I kept losing games to poor play around sleep. I don’t remember who suggested that I run Sleep Talk on Vullaby, but they instantly powered up this team. I run a bulky Eviolite set with Roost to keep Vullaby around as long as possible; I need it to check so many random things that running any other set could potentially invalidate the team’s defensive structure. Watching my opponents try to play around Roost only to see them wild out at Sleep Talk is one of the many joys of using this team. By the way, Vullaby isn’t just your sleep fodder; it’s typically your burn fodder too, especially because removing the foe Koffing’s or Ponyta’s Eviolite is crucial to the success of the team regardless of how much damage Vullaby’s Knock Off actually does to them. Very good set!

This is not a Pony-G set for the faint of heart! I found that 4 Attacks Life Orb Pony-G, while terrifying, didn’t last nearly long enough to pressure my opponents in the average match. As fun as it was to KO Ferroseed with Zen Headbutt into Mystical Fire, I simply couldn’t ever get Pony-G in. Then, I had a stroke of genius; Berry Juice makes switching Pony-G in a cinch, especially against stuff like Foongus, Koffing, and Abra when you don’t expect them to use status moves. Additionally, Hypnosis gives me two chances to invalidate a Pawniard switch-in, which alleviates an admitted weakness in the team. The specific coverage I run is meant to pressure Grookey checks: Zen Headbutt is STAB that bops Poisons, High Horsepower takes care of Ponyta, and Play Rough KOs Juice Vullaby after Rocks. Hypnosis also helps out against Porygon, which can threaten the team if Timburr is weak or Mag is gone. This is easily my favorite set and favorite mon on the whole team, and I love using it so much!

Every good team needs rocks and an NP Vull check. This team uses Endure SturdyJuice Onix, which is my favorite Onix set. It does surprisingly good work on the offensive side even with its measly 14 Atk, and it helps in the fight against the Poison- and Flying-types that make it hard for Grookey to be a good breaker. Onix is also my anti-Dewpider lead contingency plan; this keeps up my grand tradition of relying on luck-based Rock-type attacks to prevent Sticky Web from going up. I’m a fairly lucky ladderer, so it works out! Using Endure is fun too, because it lets me lure in things like Grookey to chip with Rock Blast instead of making Vullaby take a hit on switching in. Very fun set, I highly recommend it!

The star core of this team is actually my pivot core of Grookey + Magnemite. It forces opposing ladderers to play as if they don’t have an Electric immunity because of the possibility of a double switch into Grookey. Also, if you queue up against a team with no Ground-type, you basically win at team preview. Scarf Mag is just that good! It also supports the “get rid of defensive Grasses for Grookey/Timburr” by pivoting out of them on switch-in into Pony-G, Timburr, or Vullaby. Magnemite is the best cleaner on the team, so it’s usually your wincon. Now, you might be wondering about Explosion; so did Coconut. I got laughed at a bit in the LC Discord when I saw Coco (I think) using Teleport as a fourth move on Mag and was amazed at it. The thought never occurred to me! However, I’ve never clicked Explosion in a competitive ladder match, and I doubt I’d have clicked Teleport either. All you need are the first three moves and good double switch instincts!

TEAM RIVALS
:ponyta:

Ponyta Webs – The only Pokemon that doesn’t fear a burn now that I switched off of Guts Timburr is Magnemite, and Magnemite is obviously never switching into Ponyta. Normally, a combo of burned Vullaby, burned Onix, and Mag can take care of Ponyta, but if Sticky Webs are in play, I’m in a horrible spot. Luckily, ladder players were spamming Woobat webs and insisted on leading Dewpider against Onix, so I never had too much of a problem, but Ponyta really threatens this build.

:mienfoo:

FightSpam – Like Shrug mentioned in the original thought-log, this team composition was soft against Fighting-types back when Croagunk was part of the team. Now that I have Timburr over Gunk, it only exacerbates the issue. However, between my bulky Timburr and Vullaby, I’m usually able to chip at the fights enough to where Pony-G and/or Mag can clean them up at the end of the game. Also, Grookey does 76% to bulky Timburr with Wood Hammer, so you can usually chunk your way through the fighters.

:abra:

Abra + Trapinch Builds – Abra by itself is not a problem for this team. The LO variants get smacked by Mag and Grookey, and the Sash variants do so little damage that Pony-G can switch into a Shadow Ball from like 85% and pop Berry Juice. The problem usually shows up when opponents have rocks up and start double switching Trapinch into my Abra switch-in. Vullaby can usually handle this situation, but if its weakened or gone, Pony-G and Mag are Trapinch bait.

:koffing:

Burn Spreading Grookey Checks – Like I mentioned before, burn status threatens my whole team. Koffing usually gets taken care of by a burned Vullaby and some combo of Onix, Pony-G, and/or Mag, but it’s always obnoxious to switch into. Same deal with Ponyta. When I encountered one of these mons on the opposing team, I tried early and often to pressure them with double switches out of Grookey.

RISE AND SHOUT
So here it is! The team I somehow managed to get reqs twice with the same team! I always do shoutouts, so:

Shrug – my muse and the most excellent chatter in the entire LC Discord

Holiday – his Instagram hasn’t been as active lately; this is a callout

Fiend – plainly the most excellent rater out there

Albinson, BurntZebra, Jett, zeriloa – got their TC in the same thread as I did, making us Tiering Cohorts

As always, here's an importable if you like the team:

Timburr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 156 Def / 76 Spe
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch

Grookey @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Grassy Glide
- Wood Hammer
- U-turn
- Protect

Vullaby (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Weak Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 76 Def / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Sleep Talk

Ponyta-Galar @ Berry Juice
Ability: Pastel Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- High Horsepower
- Play Rough
- Hypnosis

Onix @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 236 Atk / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Blast
- High Horsepower
- Stealth Rock
- Endure

Magnemite @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Analytic
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Def / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion

Thanks! :D

DC · Apr 8, 2021

Hi boss, love the team! I spectated some of your games and saw how effective the team can be. I do think some minor aspects of the team can be improved, so the team becomes a bit more consistent against certain threats. Here are my changes:

:ss/Vullaby:

Vullaby (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
Level: 5
EVs: 116 HP / 76 Def / 156 SpD / 116 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Defog

My changes are Weak Armor --> Overcoat, Sleep Talk --> Defog, and a slight EV spread change to pump more points in Special Defense. The team's lack of entry hazard control makes it difficult to maneuver around certain targets like Choice Scarf Vulpix and Abra, and Defog is especially important since you have two Pokemon that relies on Berry Juice procing for their defensive utility. The EV change is to help you against the aforementioned threats, while Overcoat is needed because I removed Sleep Talk and you don't have a secondary sleep deterrent or Taunt Mienfoo.

:ss/Magnemite:

Not a major change but I think Explosion --> Steel Beam is better. On a more offensive build like this, being able to nuke a huge threat and trade 1v1 is pretty effective; Steel Beam is just a better Explosion for Magnemite.

:ss/Ponyta-Galar:

For physical Pony-G, I found that Double Kick is a lot better than High Horsepower. It OHKOes Pawniard, so you can preserve Hypnosis for a different Pokemon, and gives u a way to more effectively damage Ferroseed.

That's all for my changes. Hope you can try some out and see what happens. Again, love the anti-ladder build!

SS LC TALLS: The Anti-Ladder Ladder Squad

Berks

has a Calm Mind

DC

Kpop Main, No Brain

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