Pair it with lunar dance cresselia to restore iron head pp and HP aswell :)
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame SV RU Metagame Discussion (April Shifts, see post #191)
- Thread starter Feliburn
- Start date
Some first impressions of playing this tier. Not too high up on the ladder so take anything I say with a grain of salt.
Jirachi is a fantastic addition to the tier. Not only is a versatile, well-rounded Steel-type that compresses a lot of utility (including U-turn and Rocks) in one slot, it also has ENCORE. A decently fast Encore is extremely useful in this economy to own a lot of random cheese setup sweepers that you may encounter in the ladder, namely double dance Enamorus-T. Jirachi reminds me a lot of Magearna from earlier iterations of the UUbers metagame in this sense, since its a strong utility piece. I really like pairing it with Roar Moltres, since the two have good defensive synergy and you can do lines like Encore with Rachi -> U-turn -> Roar out with Moltres to soft check most greedy setup mons. I've seen a lot of other sets on this mon, like Calm Mind, Scarf, Meteor Beam, WishProtect, etc. so this mon isn't just limited to utility roles & can run some random moves to mow through common counterplay to standardish sets (like Thunderbolt for Slowbro or Tera Blast Ground for other Jirachi). I could see calls to ban this mon down the line for that reason, but IMO it is an extremely positive presence to the tier.
From using this Pokemon and facing it, the bicycle is just cancer. If there is one thing I hate about both UU and RU, its that a 121 speed Regen mon with Knock and U-turn sees a high amount of usage. That being said, Cyclizar's lack of a Stealth Rock weakness, access to Rapid Spin, and higher accuracy moves might make it more annoying to deal with in RU compared to Torn-T in UU. Very few Pokemon can match this Pokemon's progress making capabilities, and long-term, it is very difficult to answer. Its ridiculous speed tier also lets it revenge kill most of the metagame. I think the worst part is that the bike doesn't even answer itself well, since other bikes can tech Draco or deal a shitton of damage with double edge. I get that this Pokemon is very much needed in the metagame to handle hazards + act as speed control, but I do question how healthy it is (at least on initial impression). At the very least, Spikes aren't as easy to come by in this tier compared to OU, so the consequences of its Knock Off aren't as lethal.
Moltres is once again proving itself to be the most GOATED mon in whatever tier its used in. Admittingly, the weakness to Knock Off isn't great, but its friend, the Bicycle, makes it relatively easy to keep hazards off so it can continue being an annoying presence by spreading burns with Flame Body, Scorching Sands, or Wisp, or dealing a bit of chip with U-turn as it staves off some key physical attackers. I'm liking Roar as well for various setup mons. Also finding it to be one of the better users of the Tera mechanic post Knock Off since it doesn't need to be as paranoid around rocks.
IDK why this mon is NU when it is good af in RU as well. One of the better checks to Barra, good longevity with Regen, can setup Future Sights pretty well, and has access to both Scald and T-Wave to spread burn or para. Its also one of the best status absorbers ever since it doesn't gaf about either burn or para and can still be effective even after a potential poison. Its a great defensive Tera user as well to more reliably check some threats like Salamence or Alolan-Muk (lowkey nasty mon to face). It does really suck that it lost Teleport in the generational shit since a slow pivot would have been extremely good, but its still a very effective Pokemon imo.
This mon is fun. With so many status spreading mons in the tier, I've been trying to run a pivoty utility set with Hex and Wisp to mimic Dragapult in OU. Its nowhere near as effective as Dragapult is in this role due to its lower speed and bulk (which gives it an awful match-up into Cyclizar), but it can still clean end-games if played well. What I find really cool is that this mon can disguise itself as a lot of other mons like Cyclizar, Thundurus-T, and Moltres effectively since its running a lot of similar moves (namely Knock Off, U-turn, and Wisp). This can't be relied upon, but it is really cool since you can force some otherwise unoptimal interactions in your favor, like luring the opponent's Crawdaunt out when disguised as Slowbro to "land" a free Wisp, or baiting an opposing fighting move when disguised as Cyclizar / Ghost move when disguised as JIrachi. WIth Boots, it becomes more difficult to tell which mon is really Zoroark. I think a set like the one I'm running might be a bit too position based to be effective at higher levels of play, esp since Zoroark-H isn't bulky enough to spread Will-O-wisp on its own, but it sure is fun.
Jirachi is a fantastic addition to the tier. Not only is a versatile, well-rounded Steel-type that compresses a lot of utility (including U-turn and Rocks) in one slot, it also has ENCORE. A decently fast Encore is extremely useful in this economy to own a lot of random cheese setup sweepers that you may encounter in the ladder, namely double dance Enamorus-T. Jirachi reminds me a lot of Magearna from earlier iterations of the UUbers metagame in this sense, since its a strong utility piece. I really like pairing it with Roar Moltres, since the two have good defensive synergy and you can do lines like Encore with Rachi -> U-turn -> Roar out with Moltres to soft check most greedy setup mons. I've seen a lot of other sets on this mon, like Calm Mind, Scarf, Meteor Beam, WishProtect, etc. so this mon isn't just limited to utility roles & can run some random moves to mow through common counterplay to standardish sets (like Thunderbolt for Slowbro or Tera Blast Ground for other Jirachi). I could see calls to ban this mon down the line for that reason, but IMO it is an extremely positive presence to the tier.
From using this Pokemon and facing it, the bicycle is just cancer. If there is one thing I hate about both UU and RU, its that a 121 speed Regen mon with Knock and U-turn sees a high amount of usage. That being said, Cyclizar's lack of a Stealth Rock weakness, access to Rapid Spin, and higher accuracy moves might make it more annoying to deal with in RU compared to Torn-T in UU. Very few Pokemon can match this Pokemon's progress making capabilities, and long-term, it is very difficult to answer. Its ridiculous speed tier also lets it revenge kill most of the metagame. I think the worst part is that the bike doesn't even answer itself well, since other bikes can tech Draco or deal a shitton of damage with double edge. I get that this Pokemon is very much needed in the metagame to handle hazards + act as speed control, but I do question how healthy it is (at least on initial impression). At the very least, Spikes aren't as easy to come by in this tier compared to OU, so the consequences of its Knock Off aren't as lethal.
Moltres is once again proving itself to be the most GOATED mon in whatever tier its used in. Admittingly, the weakness to Knock Off isn't great, but its friend, the Bicycle, makes it relatively easy to keep hazards off so it can continue being an annoying presence by spreading burns with Flame Body, Scorching Sands, or Wisp, or dealing a bit of chip with U-turn as it staves off some key physical attackers. I'm liking Roar as well for various setup mons. Also finding it to be one of the better users of the Tera mechanic post Knock Off since it doesn't need to be as paranoid around rocks.
IDK why this mon is NU when it is good af in RU as well. One of the better checks to Barra, good longevity with Regen, can setup Future Sights pretty well, and has access to both Scald and T-Wave to spread burn or para. Its also one of the best status absorbers ever since it doesn't gaf about either burn or para and can still be effective even after a potential poison. Its a great defensive Tera user as well to more reliably check some threats like Salamence or Alolan-Muk (lowkey nasty mon to face). It does really suck that it lost Teleport in the generational shit since a slow pivot would have been extremely good, but its still a very effective Pokemon imo.
This mon is fun. With so many status spreading mons in the tier, I've been trying to run a pivoty utility set with Hex and Wisp to mimic Dragapult in OU. Its nowhere near as effective as Dragapult is in this role due to its lower speed and bulk (which gives it an awful match-up into Cyclizar), but it can still clean end-games if played well. What I find really cool is that this mon can disguise itself as a lot of other mons like Cyclizar, Thundurus-T, and Moltres effectively since its running a lot of similar moves (namely Knock Off, U-turn, and Wisp). This can't be relied upon, but it is really cool since you can force some otherwise unoptimal interactions in your favor, like luring the opponent's Crawdaunt out when disguised as Slowbro to "land" a free Wisp, or baiting an opposing fighting move when disguised as Cyclizar / Ghost move when disguised as JIrachi. WIth Boots, it becomes more difficult to tell which mon is really Zoroark. I think a set like the one I'm running might be a bit too position based to be effective at higher levels of play, esp since Zoroark-H isn't bulky enough to spread Will-O-wisp on its own, but it sure is fun.
Last edited:
Agreed, the bicycle is cancerous to me, it just knocks and u-turns on everything, and is really annoying to deal with due to regen giving it suprising amounts of bulk.
Anyways, to commerate "screw cyclizar" day, here are some sets and mons that can outspeed and ko cyclizar from full.
Noivern @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Frisk
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Moonlight
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower
Noivern can naturally outspeed cyclizar and ko it with a dragon pulse most of the time if it isn't assault vest, if it is, then it is 2hit ko'd. Dragon pulse is better than draco due to not dropping your offenses, which can mean that noivern remains more active and if they switch cyclizar out, it isn't becoming setup fodder.
Barraskewda @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Flip Turn
- Ice Fang
- Liquidation
Barraskewda can outspeed and ko cyclizar with cc, or if you want to get funky, tera water liquidation two hit kos cyclizar anyways. Ice fang even has a chance to ohko cyclizar, though that is a mere 6.3%, but hey, you can flex on people with that move.
That's it. The mons that can naturally outspeed cyclizar without employing a choice scarf, due to cyclizar usually knocking it off as they come in, and not use tera. Seriously, this thing is annoying af.
I've come across a fun and surprisingly strong strategy lately while trying to optimize some overlooked mons: Cobalion + toxic spikes.
Cobalion is the best pokemon in the tier, no doubt about that, and ironpress is its best set. But it has a few obnoxious roadblocks in mons like Hippowdon, Palossand, Basculegion and Slowbro. But something these guys all have in common is a real vulnerability to toxic spikes. None of them like being poisoned, and it allows you to wear them down through passive damage for a Cobalion sweep. Another fun side effect is that you are less reliant on taunt to beat mons like hippo, you can more freely run stealth rock or volt switch to keep up momentum vs switches. Tspikes also pair pretty well with more offensive Cobalions for the same reason. SD Coba is still countered by Palossand and Slowbro, so tspikes help vs them as well. The awkward part is trying to fit a spiker on the team. Gengar is frail and can't really set them up multiple times, Tentacruel is just a wacky pokemon in general, Quagsire is Quagsire and Dragalge is slow and awkward. Tentacruel is the best option I've found, it fits well on Cobalion teams and has good type synergy. It's worth using a mon like Tentacruel to make Cobalion even better.
team suggestions:
You need a few good knockers on this team in order to deal with boots slowbro or FlamingoPokeman running boots palossand. Tentacruel is a possible option there, though I don't like the thought of having to take away a move to fit it. If you use another toxic spiker than Tentacruel then you can fit the ol' reliable Cyclizar. Krookodile is a good knocker that can also be an offensive rocker if you use volt switch Cobalion, and there are plenty of other creative options like Okidogi, Empoleon, Horoark, Gapdos and Thundurus.
Amoonguss is a problem, but fortunately for us it is also a hella fake mon. It's not that good and we can make some simple changes to handle it. Sub or taunt Cobalion turns Amogus into a victim, safety goggles has a similar effect, and even if you don't want to use more niche options for Cobalion then there are plenty of team options to punish the imposter. Flip turn Tenta and volt switch Cobalion can help you bring in mons like Gardevoir, Entei, Gapdos and Moltres to force it back out and deal big damage to the rest of the team. Glowbro is a problem for similar reasons, but fortunately it is even more fake than Amoonguss and nearly as exploitable. All the other poison types in the tier just don't beat Cobalion. Fezandipiti gets slammed, AMuk gets set up on, Gengar gets slammed and Vroom gets pressed.
Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Heavy Slam
- Volt Switch
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Heavy Slam
- Volt Switch
Cobalion is the best pokemon in the tier, no doubt about that, and ironpress is its best set. But it has a few obnoxious roadblocks in mons like Hippowdon, Palossand, Basculegion and Slowbro. But something these guys all have in common is a real vulnerability to toxic spikes. None of them like being poisoned, and it allows you to wear them down through passive damage for a Cobalion sweep. Another fun side effect is that you are less reliant on taunt to beat mons like hippo, you can more freely run stealth rock or volt switch to keep up momentum vs switches. Tspikes also pair pretty well with more offensive Cobalions for the same reason. SD Coba is still countered by Palossand and Slowbro, so tspikes help vs them as well. The awkward part is trying to fit a spiker on the team. Gengar is frail and can't really set them up multiple times, Tentacruel is just a wacky pokemon in general, Quagsire is Quagsire and Dragalge is slow and awkward. Tentacruel is the best option I've found, it fits well on Cobalion teams and has good type synergy. It's worth using a mon like Tentacruel to make Cobalion even better.
team suggestions:
You need a few good knockers on this team in order to deal with boots slowbro or FlamingoPokeman running boots palossand. Tentacruel is a possible option there, though I don't like the thought of having to take away a move to fit it. If you use another toxic spiker than Tentacruel then you can fit the ol' reliable Cyclizar. Krookodile is a good knocker that can also be an offensive rocker if you use volt switch Cobalion, and there are plenty of other creative options like Okidogi, Empoleon, Horoark, Gapdos and Thundurus.
Amoonguss is a problem, but fortunately for us it is also a hella fake mon. It's not that good and we can make some simple changes to handle it. Sub or taunt Cobalion turns Amogus into a victim, safety goggles has a similar effect, and even if you don't want to use more niche options for Cobalion then there are plenty of team options to punish the imposter. Flip turn Tenta and volt switch Cobalion can help you bring in mons like Gardevoir, Entei, Gapdos and Moltres to force it back out and deal big damage to the rest of the team. Glowbro is a problem for similar reasons, but fortunately it is even more fake than Amoonguss and nearly as exploitable. All the other poison types in the tier just don't beat Cobalion. Fezandipiti gets slammed, AMuk gets set up on, Gengar gets slammed and Vroom gets pressed.
I know it's not my place to say and they gotta build against the set posted, but I feel like it's very interesting that a very, VERY large majority of the so-called "checks and counters" in the Victim Of The Week thread suddenly get threatened by thundy-t if it decides to run any type of coverage other than electric stab and grass knot. Namely Tera Flying T-Blast, and for the clinically insane, Tera Ice T-Blast. There's also Dark Pulse, Sludge Bomb, Flash Cannon; Thundy-T honestly can just pull out whatever it needs out of it's moveset sometimes and the crazy thing is that you can't really predict it. like at +2 with tera Ice or tera Flying most of these supposed "checks" either get OHKO'd or 2HKO'd; If your check relies on not being mildly chipped or being switched in Thundy-T can just... kill you and there's nothing you can do about it sometimes. IDK, I just wanted to yap about this, I'm probably being stupid
TLDR; never make assumptions against Thundy-T because it WILL kill you and it WILL steal and burn your last will and testament in front of your grieving family "for the bit"
TLDR; never make assumptions against Thundy-T because it WILL kill you and it WILL steal and burn your last will and testament in front of your grieving family "for the bit"
Last edited:
You are very right on everything you just said. Thundurus-T is indeed the best pokemon in the metagame. Agility beats offensive counterplay, Nasty Plot beats any fat, Specs demolishes Balance. You can fish for any MU you want and even if you don't fight what you fished for, it always forces awkward plays for the opponent who was to juggle between its immunities and any misstep means you lose, especially against Tera Blast Flying Specs where it's a 50/50 between TBolt and Tera Blast, and if you guess wrong you lose a mon. I'm not even talking about how it can get past any answer just by switching its last move. Doesn't help that common answers like Scarf Gardevoir can't switch into Sludge Bomb variants, Cyclizar gets mopped by Focus Blast... Well, they both fold to Specs Tera Blast Flying anyway soooo
Alright, with RU open on the horizon and RUPL nearing the finale of the 2nd week, I think it's time we start discussing the meta as a whole. Personally, I both like and despise this meta. On one hand, the list of viable Pokémon is quite high, and it reminds me of SM where there's obviously a higher echelon, but you can reach down for a ton of variety flavor picks. Pokémon like Palossand, Conkeldurr, Overqwil, and a lot of other Pokémon allow for a healthy degree of variety.. However, I find that a lot of Pokémon in this tier right now are very both obnoxious in the builder and the battle, and some others that I think are becoming pressing concerns. Building can be obnoxious because there's a lot of highly threatening things in the tier where your pressed for what you can fit to check them, often resorting to the half-measure to everything: Cyclizar, to do so, which is highly abusable and abused. I think that multiple elements needs to go / have an eye kept on them going forward, and I'll list some of them right now.
I'll start with this one because I've seen some claims that Jirachi has helped make this pokemon more manageable and... yeah no it has not. The most that has done is just make it run Tera Electric, which is something I'll get to later. Alot of pokemon that check this thing are liable to get punked by a random Tera or coverage slot / another set it has. Agility is an underexplored moveslot which can fix Enam-T's primarily flaw, being revenge killed, and with modest max it can shoot to being 382, faster than things like Noivern, and realistically, faster than anything relevant in the tier besides Jolly Barraskewda without a scarf. Rotom-Heat is vulnerable to getting chipped down, and loading pain split so you don't just lose automatically lose the long term forces you to abandon 2 of NP, Wisp, or Twave, none of which it really wants to abandon. This also ignores how Tera electric also lets you CM through any non NP variant, which also completely invalidates Jirachi as a check, as seen here. Enamorus has solid odds to outspeed a teams given ground type after using T-Electric, between Quagsire, Hippowdon, Gastrodon, Swampert and sometimes Rhyperior.
I find covering this Pokémon to be a nightmare, as it's checks are all liable to being broken down or pressured quite easily barring Moltres, whom is pressured by other things and is also blown away by tech Weather Ball. It's incredibly restrictive and even Moltres and Rotom-Heat are often not enough, and even then those two being among the only "consistent" responses to it make it incredibly problematic. I think it's by far the biggest suspect test candidate right now, Jirachi is simply not enough to make it more palatable than it was pre shifts.
Slightly below Enamorus-T on the metaphorical ladder, Thundurus-T is by far the biggest builder threat in the tier. I won't beat around the bush, this Pokemon in theory beats anything it wants in the tier, no exceptions. Focus Blast, Grass Knot, T-Blast Flying/Ice, Psychic, Thunder Wave, Knock off, Sludge bomb, NP, Agility, U-turn. All of these moves drastically alter how you go about handling this pokemon, and you have zero way of telling what moves it will be employing besides glorified guess work. Sure, you can scout intentions at times but this is always running the risk of both being wrong and them not taking the bait and you wasting your time, or Thundy-T just knocks whatever came in for free, like a Cyclizar or Gardevoir scouting GKnot. Offensively checking it runs the risk of Agility sets eliminating things like Noivern or Infernape as revenge killers, and it's entry points are common and numerous including things like Cobalion, support Jirachi, and it's ground / electric immunities. It's a massive headache in the builder and it's an extremely unhealthy presence in the tier. If not Enamorus-T, this is the thing that needs to go.
After those two, I think there's a sizeable gap in urgency between the next picks. As expected though. Iron Leaves is next.
This Pokémon has been elaborated on plenty of times before so I won't go too in depth, but I will note what has changed for it. Jirachi is, once again, invalidated by simply slapping Tera Electric on a setup sweeper jeez who could've seen this coming. This time, bolstering Wild Charge while also smashing Moltres and Braviary-H at the same time. Besides this, nothing else has really changed, and it's practically the exact same as before, except now it can slot ways to invalidate thunder wave because thank you tera.
This is what I think are the 3 most pressing, after this it's up in the air, and Pokémon I think should be kept an eye on from here on will be listed instead. I think the best solution is another survey. And this time, we don't need an April Fools joke to delay action. The following are what I think should pad the survey, so to speak. I won't give a huge elaboration of them to keep the post from being too long, but I'll give brief sum-ups.
Volcanion makes the list as one of the more restricting presences in the tier. Forcing either very specific waters like Gastrodon or Slowbro, or dragons like Noivern, Salamance or cyclizar. With the gen shifts, Milotic is no longer capable of managing Volcanion, and Cyclizar; by far the most commonly used soft check, is liable to explode from a stray body press. While Slowbro being on here may seem questionable, I mainly put it here as a pairing of merely the group of CM psychic types. With our darks now being of... questionable quality, the CM psychics have exploded in popularity and their threat potential with Tera are liable to show their thorns. Reuniclus and Slowbro are the fore-runners, with Cresselia, Jirachi not too far behind. I think they are likely to get out of hand as time progresses, and their placement on a survey being justified. Jirachi is here for it's impact on the tier being of questionable health. The influx of random tera electrics on random setup mons like H-Braviary, Iron Leaves, Cresselia and Enam-T to get around this thing can be seen as it exerting an unhealthy restriction on the tier, and it's generally annoying nature and potency at wishpassing leaves a potentially undesirable impact on battles, while it's offensive sets can be difficult to contain in endgames.
As for general thoughts on the tier, I think it's in a weird spot. Cyclizar is often slapped on teams primarily for necessary role compression, not just for spinning, but because it barely staves off a LOT of threats. Gengar/H-Zoro, Thundurus-T, Volcanion, Yanmega and Basculegion-F are all incredibly threatening Pokémon which both are soft checked by Cyclizar, but also can easily break past Cyclizar with a smidgen of effort, and a lot of times, these Pokémon have minimal checks beyond this. This type of dynamic often leaves teambuilding to be a mess of half-measures, and this is pushed to the logical extreme by random tera types being used to both fill in gaps, and also abuse the gaps in the opponents team. I think the tiers future path should be to minimizing these type of half-measure forcing scenarios, and with RU Open on the horizon, I think it's the perfect time to push out a 2nd survey, or use the previous Survey for the first 3 mentioned and push a test out. Which, honestly I think could've been done 2 weeks ago.
I'll start with this one because I've seen some claims that Jirachi has helped make this pokemon more manageable and... yeah no it has not. The most that has done is just make it run Tera Electric, which is something I'll get to later. Alot of pokemon that check this thing are liable to get punked by a random Tera or coverage slot / another set it has. Agility is an underexplored moveslot which can fix Enam-T's primarily flaw, being revenge killed, and with modest max it can shoot to being 382, faster than things like Noivern, and realistically, faster than anything relevant in the tier besides Jolly Barraskewda without a scarf. Rotom-Heat is vulnerable to getting chipped down, and loading pain split so you don't just lose automatically lose the long term forces you to abandon 2 of NP, Wisp, or Twave, none of which it really wants to abandon. This also ignores how Tera electric also lets you CM through any non NP variant, which also completely invalidates Jirachi as a check, as seen here. Enamorus has solid odds to outspeed a teams given ground type after using T-Electric, between Quagsire, Hippowdon, Gastrodon, Swampert and sometimes Rhyperior.
I find covering this Pokémon to be a nightmare, as it's checks are all liable to being broken down or pressured quite easily barring Moltres, whom is pressured by other things and is also blown away by tech Weather Ball. It's incredibly restrictive and even Moltres and Rotom-Heat are often not enough, and even then those two being among the only "consistent" responses to it make it incredibly problematic. I think it's by far the biggest suspect test candidate right now, Jirachi is simply not enough to make it more palatable than it was pre shifts.
Slightly below Enamorus-T on the metaphorical ladder, Thundurus-T is by far the biggest builder threat in the tier. I won't beat around the bush, this Pokemon in theory beats anything it wants in the tier, no exceptions. Focus Blast, Grass Knot, T-Blast Flying/Ice, Psychic, Thunder Wave, Knock off, Sludge bomb, NP, Agility, U-turn. All of these moves drastically alter how you go about handling this pokemon, and you have zero way of telling what moves it will be employing besides glorified guess work. Sure, you can scout intentions at times but this is always running the risk of both being wrong and them not taking the bait and you wasting your time, or Thundy-T just knocks whatever came in for free, like a Cyclizar or Gardevoir scouting GKnot. Offensively checking it runs the risk of Agility sets eliminating things like Noivern or Infernape as revenge killers, and it's entry points are common and numerous including things like Cobalion, support Jirachi, and it's ground / electric immunities. It's a massive headache in the builder and it's an extremely unhealthy presence in the tier. If not Enamorus-T, this is the thing that needs to go.
After those two, I think there's a sizeable gap in urgency between the next picks. As expected though. Iron Leaves is next.
This Pokémon has been elaborated on plenty of times before so I won't go too in depth, but I will note what has changed for it. Jirachi is, once again, invalidated by simply slapping Tera Electric on a setup sweeper jeez who could've seen this coming. This time, bolstering Wild Charge while also smashing Moltres and Braviary-H at the same time. Besides this, nothing else has really changed, and it's practically the exact same as before, except now it can slot ways to invalidate thunder wave because thank you tera.
This is what I think are the 3 most pressing, after this it's up in the air, and Pokémon I think should be kept an eye on from here on will be listed instead. I think the best solution is another survey. And this time, we don't need an April Fools joke to delay action. The following are what I think should pad the survey, so to speak. I won't give a huge elaboration of them to keep the post from being too long, but I'll give brief sum-ups.
Volcanion makes the list as one of the more restricting presences in the tier. Forcing either very specific waters like Gastrodon or Slowbro, or dragons like Noivern, Salamance or cyclizar. With the gen shifts, Milotic is no longer capable of managing Volcanion, and Cyclizar; by far the most commonly used soft check, is liable to explode from a stray body press. While Slowbro being on here may seem questionable, I mainly put it here as a pairing of merely the group of CM psychic types. With our darks now being of... questionable quality, the CM psychics have exploded in popularity and their threat potential with Tera are liable to show their thorns. Reuniclus and Slowbro are the fore-runners, with Cresselia, Jirachi not too far behind. I think they are likely to get out of hand as time progresses, and their placement on a survey being justified. Jirachi is here for it's impact on the tier being of questionable health. The influx of random tera electrics on random setup mons like H-Braviary, Iron Leaves, Cresselia and Enam-T to get around this thing can be seen as it exerting an unhealthy restriction on the tier, and it's generally annoying nature and potency at wishpassing leaves a potentially undesirable impact on battles, while it's offensive sets can be difficult to contain in endgames.
As for general thoughts on the tier, I think it's in a weird spot. Cyclizar is often slapped on teams primarily for necessary role compression, not just for spinning, but because it barely staves off a LOT of threats. Gengar/H-Zoro, Thundurus-T, Volcanion, Yanmega and Basculegion-F are all incredibly threatening Pokémon which both are soft checked by Cyclizar, but also can easily break past Cyclizar with a smidgen of effort, and a lot of times, these Pokémon have minimal checks beyond this. This type of dynamic often leaves teambuilding to be a mess of half-measures, and this is pushed to the logical extreme by random tera types being used to both fill in gaps, and also abuse the gaps in the opponents team. I think the tiers future path should be to minimizing these type of half-measure forcing scenarios, and with RU Open on the horizon, I think it's the perfect time to push out a 2nd survey, or use the previous Survey for the first 3 mentioned and push a test out. Which, honestly I think could've been done 2 weeks ago.
100% completely agree with this and it perfectly sums up my feels on the builder side of things.
Also, let's not forget about Revavroom, that thing can also invalidate all the flimsy counterplay to it by just running Taunt. Sure, it compromises coverage, but Tera Water Taunt actually just 6-0s almost everything.
Decided to make a longer post than my previous one to give some of my thoughts on the tier.
If "pick your checks and counters" was on the dictionary, then SV RU Revavroom would be the main example. Since offensive counterplay does not exist due to how absurd Shift Gear is, it can choose between 4 viable Tera types and pick between Taunt / a coverage move to pick what defensive cores it can beat to 6-0 them. Tera Water + Taunt 6-0s HippoCycMolt, Temper Flare 6-0s teams with Forretress, Tera Ground Stomping Tantrum 6-0s teams with Empoleon/Jirachi. Just fish for one of these and enjoy your free wins. It doesn't help that the following mon pressures the few checks it has immensely:
Admittedly the "tamest" of the broken mons I will be covering here but Iron Leaves is simply too good at forcing Tera out of the opponent. The only, and I mean only reliable counters in Tera Dragon Hippo, Tera Dragon Roar Moltres and Tera Poison/Fairy Wo-Chien HAVE to burn Tera to handle it. Some Scarfers can technically revenge kill it but it would be forgetting about Leaves's Celebi-level bulk coupled with Tera which mandates Scarfers that can hit on its weaknesses, like Scarf Gengar, but then Leaves Teras, tanks and Psyblades for the KO and now you have to answer Leaves defensively which, as mentioned previously, requires you to burn Tera. This is 100% of the time a lose/lose scenario for the defender and is, in my opinion, very unhealthy.
If "pick your checks and counters" was on the dictionary, then SV RU Thundurus-Therian would be the second example. LBN explained how silly Thundurus-T is beautifully on the post above, so read this for my opinion on Thundurus-T.
I will be 100% honest with you: I have never felt like Enamorus was a problem in the builder or in-game. I just never see it for some reason despite my 100+ games in the past 2 weeks. So yeah, not much to say about this one...
VS The World ( 
etc...)
Forget about Hippowdon, THIS is the the one mon that holds this mess of a metagame together. If it weren't for that thing, hazards would be un-removable and suddenly every special attacker would be banworthy. It singlehandedly stops Gengar, H-Zoroark, Yanmega, Thundurus-T (debatable) and Basculegion from running through the tier. Cyclizar is not even that good, it is highly abusable, but how the f*** are you supposed to make a non-HO team without it exactly? I don't even think there is an easy fix for this, you can't just say "well, just ban Gengar and Zoroark and Yanmega and Basculegion all in a fell swoop and we good". I mean, you can, and that is definitely something I could get behind, but the majority is not ready for that opinion yet.
I'm just going to name drop it so you think about this post the next time you get swept by it running a random coverage/Tera that beats your "counter".
Also just a reminder that this thing exists and is a menace. Insert joke about the dictionary here. At this point, there is so many threats that can just pick their counterplay and fish for 6-0s on preview that I sound like a broken record.
Honorable Mentions
eats Balance for breakfast, Literally impossible to switch into if you don't play an unviable Water like Gastro or Milotic.
It's fine but damn does it bring absolutely nothing to the table and just exists to make HO just that bit more infuriating to play against.
If Cyclizar didn't exist then this would be the #1 mon.
It would be fine if the meta itself was fine, but in the current state of affairs, we really don't need Rain to be somewhat viable.
Actually just QB it in secret and don't tell anyone, I swear no one will notice and it will improve things tenfold.
Revavroom if it had Dragon Dance instead of Shift Gear.
So yeah, if you couldn't tell from this post, I am a liiiiittle tired of the meta. Started playing NU recently and god was it so much more fun and balanced, it truly opened my eyes on how awful RU feels to build and play in. Gonna take a break for a little bit until something is done to fix all this.
If "pick your checks and counters" was on the dictionary, then SV RU Revavroom would be the main example. Since offensive counterplay does not exist due to how absurd Shift Gear is, it can choose between 4 viable Tera types and pick between Taunt / a coverage move to pick what defensive cores it can beat to 6-0 them. Tera Water + Taunt 6-0s HippoCycMolt, Temper Flare 6-0s teams with Forretress, Tera Ground Stomping Tantrum 6-0s teams with Empoleon/Jirachi. Just fish for one of these and enjoy your free wins. It doesn't help that the following mon pressures the few checks it has immensely:
Admittedly the "tamest" of the broken mons I will be covering here but Iron Leaves is simply too good at forcing Tera out of the opponent. The only, and I mean only reliable counters in Tera Dragon Hippo, Tera Dragon Roar Moltres and Tera Poison/Fairy Wo-Chien HAVE to burn Tera to handle it. Some Scarfers can technically revenge kill it but it would be forgetting about Leaves's Celebi-level bulk coupled with Tera which mandates Scarfers that can hit on its weaknesses, like Scarf Gengar, but then Leaves Teras, tanks and Psyblades for the KO and now you have to answer Leaves defensively which, as mentioned previously, requires you to burn Tera. This is 100% of the time a lose/lose scenario for the defender and is, in my opinion, very unhealthy.
If "pick your checks and counters" was on the dictionary, then SV RU Thundurus-Therian would be the second example. LBN explained how silly Thundurus-T is beautifully on the post above, so read this for my opinion on Thundurus-T.
I will be 100% honest with you: I have never felt like Enamorus was a problem in the builder or in-game. I just never see it for some reason despite my 100+ games in the past 2 weeks. So yeah, not much to say about this one...
VS The World ( etc...)Forget about Hippowdon, THIS is the the one mon that holds this mess of a metagame together. If it weren't for that thing, hazards would be un-removable and suddenly every special attacker would be banworthy. It singlehandedly stops Gengar, H-Zoroark, Yanmega, Thundurus-T (debatable) and Basculegion from running through the tier. Cyclizar is not even that good, it is highly abusable, but how the f*** are you supposed to make a non-HO team without it exactly? I don't even think there is an easy fix for this, you can't just say "well, just ban Gengar and Zoroark and Yanmega and Basculegion all in a fell swoop and we good". I mean, you can, and that is definitely something I could get behind, but the majority is not ready for that opinion yet.
I'm just going to name drop it so you think about this post the next time you get swept by it running a random coverage/Tera that beats your "counter".
Also just a reminder that this thing exists and is a menace. Insert joke about the dictionary here. At this point, there is so many threats that can just pick their counterplay and fish for 6-0s on preview that I sound like a broken record.
Honorable Mentions
eats Balance for breakfast, Literally impossible to switch into if you don't play an unviable Water like Gastro or Milotic. It's fine but damn does it bring absolutely nothing to the table and just exists to make HO just that bit more infuriating to play against. If Cyclizar didn't exist then this would be the #1 mon. It would be fine if the meta itself was fine, but in the current state of affairs, we really don't need Rain to be somewhat viable. Actually just QB it in secret and don't tell anyone, I swear no one will notice and it will improve things tenfold. Revavroom if it had Dragon Dance instead of Shift Gear.So yeah, if you couldn't tell from this post, I am a liiiiittle tired of the meta. Started playing NU recently and god was it so much more fun and balanced, it truly opened my eyes on how awful RU feels to build and play in. Gonna take a break for a little bit until something is done to fix all this.
Last edited:
Gonna drop my thoughts on the meta threats.
Haven't seen this much on ladder, so I don't really want to comment on it since idk about this mon.
This is easily the most banworthy mon. Outspeeds a ton of the meta and basically cannot be defensively answered. Been using a np + volt switch set, dealing amazing damage and then getting tf out of there so nothing can try to revenge kill you. This would be my ban vote, please get it out of the tier.
Second most banworthy mon, does need a turn to set up, but then destroys everything. Tera fire just decimates everything and requiring tera to answer it is not healthy.
Some other mons in the meta:
I don't think this thing is broken. Sure, it can be annoying to switch into, but lots of things can threaten it. It's slow as hell so any moderately fast ground, electric or rock type destroys it. You do have to dip a bit into NU to get some of these, but those still work fine outside of volc. At best trades itself with 1 mon, and then is revenged killed.
Guys, please run krook. Jokes aside (but seriously, use krook please it is so good), idk about these guys. On paper they seem broken, but the ghost and dark types that are good in the meta hold them back.
Don't think that this is broken yet as it's defensive answers, while limited, can be decently splashable. Needs two boosts to truely destroy everything. But, I can see why some people don't like this, so I'd keep an eye on it.
Nah, definition of just a good mon. It's not the fastest thing in the meta or the bulkiest thing, so it has to decide between bulk or offense.
I think this mon is cancerous. Half of the reason Barra is so good is due to it naturally outspeeding cyclizar, which means only scarfers can outspeed it, which is exploitable by cyclizar. It cripples teams that try to answer it by hitting it hard, and regens off the damage. IDC if it helps against special attackers, it warps the tier so much that I think it should be banned.
Other mons I don't think are close to broken, but if you think they are then that's alright.
Haven't seen this much on ladder, so I don't really want to comment on it since idk about this mon. This is easily the most banworthy mon. Outspeeds a ton of the meta and basically cannot be defensively answered. Been using a np + volt switch set, dealing amazing damage and then getting tf out of there so nothing can try to revenge kill you. This would be my ban vote, please get it out of the tier. Second most banworthy mon, does need a turn to set up, but then destroys everything. Tera fire just decimates everything and requiring tera to answer it is not healthy.Some other mons in the meta:
I don't think this thing is broken. Sure, it can be annoying to switch into, but lots of things can threaten it. It's slow as hell so any moderately fast ground, electric or rock type destroys it. You do have to dip a bit into NU to get some of these, but those still work fine outside of volc. At best trades itself with 1 mon, and then is revenged killed. Guys, please run krook. Jokes aside (but seriously, use krook please it is so good), idk about these guys. On paper they seem broken, but the ghost and dark types that are good in the meta hold them back. Don't think that this is broken yet as it's defensive answers, while limited, can be decently splashable. Needs two boosts to truely destroy everything. But, I can see why some people don't like this, so I'd keep an eye on it. Nah, definition of just a good mon. It's not the fastest thing in the meta or the bulkiest thing, so it has to decide between bulk or offense. I think this mon is cancerous. Half of the reason Barra is so good is due to it naturally outspeeding cyclizar, which means only scarfers can outspeed it, which is exploitable by cyclizar. It cripples teams that try to answer it by hitting it hard, and regens off the damage. IDC if it helps against special attackers, it warps the tier so much that I think it should be banned. Other mons I don't think are close to broken, but if you think they are then that's alright.
TW// gaming
Alrighty gamers. It's currently midnight where I am, so this post'll probably not be too up-to-snuff in terms of readability and general comprehensiveness (and probably won't get it's point across) but let me lock in here for a bit. I don't really like the RU metagame right now and I haven't really had any fun ever since the Zarude ban. Now don't take this the wrong way- Zarude absolutely deserved it and that thing was absolutely horrid to fight against. But ever since then, I haven't really been able to build or grasp anything regarding the RU metagame. Only until recently have I been able to have a tiny foothold, but even then I still get goobed every 3 outta 5 games. I think the issue, while definitely a skill issue on my end, also lies in the metagame and how it's kinda... deteriorated in my eyes. I think the underlying issue that has plagued the metagame is an issue of too much pressure and too many good pokemon. I've seen the posts, I've seen the VRs, I really should join the discord sometime, but despite building around what is apparently the top of the top, I always seem to have some defensive issue in my team. There are honestly too little defensive answers, and just a large amount of viable threats. Like let me break it down a bit so I can do more than just talk about how bad I am at this game:
This first part is just a brief explanation of how I see how the tier is, if that makes sense. A short analysis of how things work out in my mind.
THE FAIRYS
The latter, Enam-T has been a hot point of contention in this thread for the past 3 months, and honestly it always just seems right on the edge of being suspected. And it's the first of many set-up wincons in this tier. Enam's main claim to fame is clicking calm mind twice and winning with unresisted coverage. Pretty easy to see why you would try to build around an Enam endgame... Is what I would say if the stupid thing wasn't MIA for like 100+ games in a row before 6-0ing me on turn 13. But regardless, something that I try to build around.
Gardevoir, on the other hand is really solid, but not broken. Her claim to fame is being able to kill Cyclizar really well. This wouldn't be too much of an issue, if Cyclizar wasn't on 60% of all teams. But why is Cyclizar on every team every? Well...
THE GHOSTS
(imagine this was white-striped it's 12:22 and I couldn't figure out how to make it female)
(Update: it's 1:40, I'm done with the post and I'm genuinely confused on why pmd/basculegion-female doesn't work; why is none of this documented anywhere on this website)
Actually insane pokemon just overall.
Gengar is insane because of a really fast speed stat, nasty plot, scarf, and a generally really, REALLY good movepool. Consumes weakened balance teams for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Luckily, every balance team has Cyclizar! ...who still ends up on the back foot no matter the set, because Cyclizar needs hazard support or 252 atk to OHKO gengar. And if the Gengar is choice scarf, you either get stuck with taking 63% on Cyclizar, or get tricked a choice scarf and die to any mildly strong neutral special attack. Regardless, you kinda need Cyclizar to be able to handle this guy.
Zoroark Hisui. Zoroark Hisui. Where do I even begin.
Lets see what Zoro-H can accomplish. Zoro-H can: disguise itself as any Pokemon on the opposing team and pick up KO's it has no right getting, forcing insane defensive play on the opponent's end that can be easily taken advantage of. You HAVE to assume that every Pokemon they send out is a Zoro if you see it in team preview because whoops! You made the *assumed* that you were in a good position, and now your key defensive piece took 84% from Hyper Voice! And sometimes it's the other way around, where you switch your special wall into what you *think* is a Zoroark and suddenly you realize that no, it really was a Barraskewda and suddenly your key defensive piece took 84%!
You see the pattern right? Zoro-H forces really annoying 50/50 scenarios where you have to guess at what's real and whats not, and that's just with choice specs. It can run nasty plot too, and at that point if you don't have a scarfer or supremely bulky special wall you are actually well and truly done.
However, there is a silver-lining: Cyclizar! It can switch right into a Hyper Voice, take 64%, and then OHKO Zoro-H with knock off! ...That is if you guess correctly and they don't just... switch out.
Basc-F I'm just gonna go over quickly, but Cyclizar is more of an emergency answer to Basc when it's not under rain. Regardless, for most teams, this is all they have and all they're gonna be able to fit.
But you see the issue right? To be able to deal with these super powered ghost threats, you gotta run Cyclizar. Buuuuuut, you have to realize: You are running Cyclizar, a frail Normal/Dragon type. Regenerator be damned if you get OHKO'd. This is the issue I have- even if you were to build around just these threats, you still have to really finagle and scrounge for stuff to be able to have a decent defensive answer. And Cyclizar is really easy to play around, something I'll elaborate further below
So, you slap together your balance team, and you're feeling great. You have a positive matchup into these 5 or so mons, and you have the standard balance cores that have served you well.
now get 6-0'd by every other pokemon in the tier bozo should of been prepared for:
Araquanid, WP Armarogue, Expert Belt Azelf, CB Barraskewda, SD Bisharp,
Shell Smash Tera-Grass Blastoise, Shell Smash Tera-Electric Blastoise, Shell Smash Tera-Ghost Blastoise,
CB Crawdaunt, CM Tera-Poison Cresselia,
CB Entei, Tera Electric Iron Leaves, Tera Fire Iron Leaves, Maushold In General, Offensive Moltres, (this has killed me two times this past week and that's honestly way too many times)
Meteor Beam Necrozma, Trick Room Meteor Beam Necrozma, DD Necrozma, DD+WP Necrozma, Okidogi,
Rain and all the bullshit it's got, Lum Berry Revavroom, Air Balloon Revavroom, Tera Fire Revavroom,
Tera Flying Revavroom, Tera Ground Revavroom, Special Salamence, Mixed Salamence, DD Salamence, DD Salamence with Tera Steel,
Thundurus-Therian, Choice Specs Thundurus-Therian, Agility Thundurus-Therian, Double Dance Thundurus-Therian, T-Blast Flying Thundurus-Therian, T-Blast Ice Thundurus-Therian, (gotten slapped by it pretty often weirdly enough) Thundurus-Therian Again But Shiny,
Volcanion, Yanmega, CB Gapdos, Choice-Scarf Gapdos, Choice-Scarf Chandelure, (low ladder being low ladder but still) Feraligatr, Reuniclus,
Slowbro, Glowbro, (guess it's set, you won't. and you can't until it's too late.), and finally, Krookodile
And if you're really having a bad day, Hitmonchan, Sandslash-A, and Sableye.
I know those last 3 (and azelf, he's mid af tbh) were just funny meme picks, but come on man. All of these minus Moltres are things that you can reasonably expect to have to play against at some point. All of these I've seen be used by and against me, and honestly what are you supposed to do? All of these chew through Balance teams, and fat teams too for that matter.
At this point, I can honestly say that on one hand, it's very much a skill issue. My style of teambuilding really just doesn't meld well with this meta, but on the other hand...bah! there is no other hand!
There are honestly so many things that you have to look at and build around in the teambuilder, and so many things that can viably be run with good enough team support that, going back to the whole "Since Zarude" thing, I haven't been able to grasp, and still have no idea what the meta even is. I can vaguely guess at "Oh, Enam-T, Thundurus-T, Revavroom, Blastoise, and Iron Leaves are good, I should prepare to encounter those types of mons" But just trying to build against that list of mons is hard, with the remaining holes being patched up with NU/ZU mons and desperate tera types. The issue then arises that sometimes you just lose at team preview because I prepared to deal with mons A, B, and C, but never expected mon's F and G.
So TLDR for this point, too many things that you can lose to that you have to try and prepare for in 6 measly team slots.
Just trying to not ramble on this point a bit longer, there's also the issue of set-up sweepers.
A large, LARGE majority of the mons that I listed above are set up sweepers, and I swear when positioned mildly well they feel absolutely unstoppable. Blastoise is a good example, being able to set up on anything without priority that can't OHKO it before or after it clicks the funny move. And from there, it kinda has free rein to absolutely decimate you with or without tera. And with it, it gains the funny unresisted coverage that you can't do anything about because Blastoise outspeeds everything after a shell smash and kills everything at +2.
So you'd better be running priority, and yeah you'd win in THAT game, but next game you match up against a Zoroark-H and give it free entry points, or you match up against farigaraf and lose somehow, and you get the picture.
It's kinda... impossible to prepare for everything at once, and impossible to blanket check things too because aside from Cyclizar, everything in this god damn tier has the special bulk of a wet paper towel and anything that can stomach special hits either can't do it without taking hazard chip or doesn't have reliable recovery so it just gets 3HKO'd at the cost of all your momentum and a team slot. And Chansey doesn't count, that's a stall exclusive, that's Flamingo's territory.
One thing that I want to bring up is just... how easily you can take advantage of defensive pokemon in this meta. Cyclizar is both a liability and necessity because on one hand, you don't lose everything to the ghost types, but on the other hand almost every body and their grandma is finding new and exciting ways to OHKO cyclizar or take advantage of it. Empoleon looks good on the surface as a good special wall with recovery... until it gets exploited by like everyone or, once again, OHKO'd. People have found out that Hippowdon, despite being a good physical wall, does not wall special attackers, and Fezendipiti, while being decent, honestly kinda sucks and manages to find new and exciting ways to lose by itself without people actively trying to beat it.
I'm sure that at top level play, with the Feliburns and Master Chiefs, they've got the meta on lock and they understand the ins and outs of the tier, and run Registeel on every team or something, but I'm no Ampha, I'm no Dracopope. Again, most likely a skill issue, but despite all my attempts at learning the tier, despite all my attempts at trying to understand what I need to work around, I've been forced into the conclusion (by ladder mostly, that honestly might be the reason for my issues) that I can't make anything work, and that no matter what I try, I'm always just going to lose to FreeMelee2521's DD Mew wincon or femhwfiu3d's Shell Smash Minor that I lost to on team preview.
TLDR, too many threats, too few defensive answers, and a really aggressive metagame making it really hard to get a grasp on what exactly I'm doing wrong and where I need to improve, and what I need to prepare for. (i don't even know if it's aggressive tbh i'm that lost)
Them's be my thoughts on the tier, and what I've observed in these past 3 months
Thank you for reading, and I beg of you, PLEASE tear this post apart. Tell me I'm an idiot, tell me I should be doing X, I kinda need criticism (preferably constructive) at the moment, and I'd be really interested to see if I'm right by any stretch of the imagination or just an old geezer who got lost back at Hippo Molt Cyclizar cores 2 months ago.
Goodnight, and I'll be loading up an all Choice Items team after this to drown my sorrows.
(update: i won lol https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2113823651)
(I put zero thought into that and it still preformed better than stuff I checked speed tiers and ran calcs on)
Meloetta for RU.
Alrighty gamers. It's currently midnight where I am, so this post'll probably not be too up-to-snuff in terms of readability and general comprehensiveness (and probably won't get it's point across) but let me lock in here for a bit. I don't really like the RU metagame right now and I haven't really had any fun ever since the Zarude ban. Now don't take this the wrong way- Zarude absolutely deserved it and that thing was absolutely horrid to fight against. But ever since then, I haven't really been able to build or grasp anything regarding the RU metagame. Only until recently have I been able to have a tiny foothold, but even then I still get goobed every 3 outta 5 games. I think the issue, while definitely a skill issue on my end, also lies in the metagame and how it's kinda... deteriorated in my eyes. I think the underlying issue that has plagued the metagame is an issue of too much pressure and too many good pokemon. I've seen the posts, I've seen the VRs, I really should join the discord sometime, but despite building around what is apparently the top of the top, I always seem to have some defensive issue in my team. There are honestly too little defensive answers, and just a large amount of viable threats. Like let me break it down a bit so I can do more than just talk about how bad I am at this game:
This first part is just a brief explanation of how I see how the tier is, if that makes sense. A short analysis of how things work out in my mind.
THE FAIRYS
The latter, Enam-T has been a hot point of contention in this thread for the past 3 months, and honestly it always just seems right on the edge of being suspected. And it's the first of many set-up wincons in this tier. Enam's main claim to fame is clicking calm mind twice and winning with unresisted coverage. Pretty easy to see why you would try to build around an Enam endgame... Is what I would say if the stupid thing wasn't MIA for like 100+ games in a row before 6-0ing me on turn 13. But regardless, something that I try to build around.
Gardevoir, on the other hand is really solid, but not broken. Her claim to fame is being able to kill Cyclizar really well. This wouldn't be too much of an issue, if Cyclizar wasn't on 60% of all teams. But why is Cyclizar on every team every? Well...
THE GHOSTS
(imagine this was white-striped it's 12:22 and I couldn't figure out how to make it female)(Update: it's 1:40, I'm done with the post and I'm genuinely confused on why pmd/basculegion-female doesn't work; why is none of this documented anywhere on this website)
Actually insane pokemon just overall.
Gengar is insane because of a really fast speed stat, nasty plot, scarf, and a generally really, REALLY good movepool. Consumes weakened balance teams for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Luckily, every balance team has Cyclizar! ...who still ends up on the back foot no matter the set, because Cyclizar needs hazard support or 252 atk to OHKO gengar. And if the Gengar is choice scarf, you either get stuck with taking 63% on Cyclizar, or get tricked a choice scarf and die to any mildly strong neutral special attack. Regardless, you kinda need Cyclizar to be able to handle this guy.
Zoroark Hisui. Zoroark Hisui. Where do I even begin.
Lets see what Zoro-H can accomplish. Zoro-H can: disguise itself as any Pokemon on the opposing team and pick up KO's it has no right getting, forcing insane defensive play on the opponent's end that can be easily taken advantage of. You HAVE to assume that every Pokemon they send out is a Zoro if you see it in team preview because whoops! You made the *assumed* that you were in a good position, and now your key defensive piece took 84% from Hyper Voice! And sometimes it's the other way around, where you switch your special wall into what you *think* is a Zoroark and suddenly you realize that no, it really was a Barraskewda and suddenly your key defensive piece took 84%!
You see the pattern right? Zoro-H forces really annoying 50/50 scenarios where you have to guess at what's real and whats not, and that's just with choice specs. It can run nasty plot too, and at that point if you don't have a scarfer or supremely bulky special wall you are actually well and truly done.
However, there is a silver-lining: Cyclizar! It can switch right into a Hyper Voice, take 64%, and then OHKO Zoro-H with knock off! ...That is if you guess correctly and they don't just... switch out.
Basc-F I'm just gonna go over quickly, but Cyclizar is more of an emergency answer to Basc when it's not under rain. Regardless, for most teams, this is all they have and all they're gonna be able to fit.
But you see the issue right? To be able to deal with these super powered ghost threats, you gotta run Cyclizar. Buuuuuut, you have to realize: You are running Cyclizar, a frail Normal/Dragon type. Regenerator be damned if you get OHKO'd. This is the issue I have- even if you were to build around just these threats, you still have to really finagle and scrounge for stuff to be able to have a decent defensive answer. And Cyclizar is really easy to play around, something I'll elaborate further below
So, you slap together your balance team, and you're feeling great. You have a positive matchup into these 5 or so mons, and you have the standard balance cores that have served you well.
now get 6-0'd by every other pokemon in the tier bozo should of been prepared for:
Araquanid, WP Armarogue, Expert Belt Azelf, CB Barraskewda, SD Bisharp,
Shell Smash Tera-Grass Blastoise, Shell Smash Tera-Electric Blastoise, Shell Smash Tera-Ghost Blastoise,
CB Crawdaunt, CM Tera-Poison Cresselia,
CB Entei, Tera Electric Iron Leaves, Tera Fire Iron Leaves, Maushold In General, Offensive Moltres, (this has killed me two times this past week and that's honestly way too many times)
Meteor Beam Necrozma, Trick Room Meteor Beam Necrozma, DD Necrozma, DD+WP Necrozma, Okidogi,
Rain and all the bullshit it's got, Lum Berry Revavroom, Air Balloon Revavroom, Tera Fire Revavroom,
Tera Flying Revavroom, Tera Ground Revavroom, Special Salamence, Mixed Salamence, DD Salamence, DD Salamence with Tera Steel,
Thundurus-Therian, Choice Specs Thundurus-Therian, Agility Thundurus-Therian, Double Dance Thundurus-Therian, T-Blast Flying Thundurus-Therian, T-Blast Ice Thundurus-Therian, (gotten slapped by it pretty often weirdly enough) Thundurus-Therian Again But Shiny,
Volcanion, Yanmega, CB Gapdos, Choice-Scarf Gapdos, Choice-Scarf Chandelure, (low ladder being low ladder but still) Feraligatr, Reuniclus,
Slowbro, Glowbro, (guess it's set, you won't. and you can't until it's too late.), and finally, Krookodile
And if you're really having a bad day, Hitmonchan, Sandslash-A, and Sableye.
I know those last 3 (and azelf, he's mid af tbh) were just funny meme picks, but come on man. All of these minus Moltres are things that you can reasonably expect to have to play against at some point. All of these I've seen be used by and against me, and honestly what are you supposed to do? All of these chew through Balance teams, and fat teams too for that matter.
At this point, I can honestly say that on one hand, it's very much a skill issue. My style of teambuilding really just doesn't meld well with this meta, but on the other hand...
There are honestly so many things that you have to look at and build around in the teambuilder, and so many things that can viably be run with good enough team support that, going back to the whole "Since Zarude" thing, I haven't been able to grasp, and still have no idea what the meta even is. I can vaguely guess at "Oh, Enam-T, Thundurus-T, Revavroom, Blastoise, and Iron Leaves are good, I should prepare to encounter those types of mons" But just trying to build against that list of mons is hard, with the remaining holes being patched up with NU/ZU mons and desperate tera types. The issue then arises that sometimes you just lose at team preview because I prepared to deal with mons A, B, and C, but never expected mon's F and G.
So TLDR for this point, too many things that you can lose to that you have to try and prepare for in 6 measly team slots.
Just trying to not ramble on this point a bit longer, there's also the issue of set-up sweepers.
A large, LARGE majority of the mons that I listed above are set up sweepers, and I swear when positioned mildly well they feel absolutely unstoppable. Blastoise is a good example, being able to set up on anything without priority that can't OHKO it before or after it clicks the funny move. And from there, it kinda has free rein to absolutely decimate you with or without tera. And with it, it gains the funny unresisted coverage that you can't do anything about because Blastoise outspeeds everything after a shell smash and kills everything at +2.
So you'd better be running priority, and yeah you'd win in THAT game, but next game you match up against a Zoroark-H and give it free entry points, or you match up against farigaraf and lose somehow, and you get the picture.
It's kinda... impossible to prepare for everything at once, and impossible to blanket check things too because aside from Cyclizar, everything in this god damn tier has the special bulk of a wet paper towel and anything that can stomach special hits either can't do it without taking hazard chip or doesn't have reliable recovery so it just gets 3HKO'd at the cost of all your momentum and a team slot. And Chansey doesn't count, that's a stall exclusive, that's Flamingo's territory.
One thing that I want to bring up is just... how easily you can take advantage of defensive pokemon in this meta. Cyclizar is both a liability and necessity because on one hand, you don't lose everything to the ghost types, but on the other hand almost every body and their grandma is finding new and exciting ways to OHKO cyclizar or take advantage of it. Empoleon looks good on the surface as a good special wall with recovery... until it gets exploited by like everyone or, once again, OHKO'd. People have found out that Hippowdon, despite being a good physical wall, does not wall special attackers, and Fezendipiti, while being decent, honestly kinda sucks and manages to find new and exciting ways to lose by itself without people actively trying to beat it.
I'm sure that at top level play, with the Feliburns and Master Chiefs, they've got the meta on lock and they understand the ins and outs of the tier, and run Registeel on every team or something, but I'm no Ampha, I'm no Dracopope. Again, most likely a skill issue, but despite all my attempts at learning the tier, despite all my attempts at trying to understand what I need to work around, I've been forced into the conclusion (by ladder mostly, that honestly might be the reason for my issues) that I can't make anything work, and that no matter what I try, I'm always just going to lose to FreeMelee2521's DD Mew wincon or femhwfiu3d's Shell Smash Minor that I lost to on team preview.
TLDR, too many threats, too few defensive answers, and a really aggressive metagame making it really hard to get a grasp on what exactly I'm doing wrong and where I need to improve, and what I need to prepare for. (i don't even know if it's aggressive tbh i'm that lost)
Them's be my thoughts on the tier, and what I've observed in these past 3 months
Thank you for reading, and I beg of you, PLEASE tear this post apart. Tell me I'm an idiot, tell me I should be doing X, I kinda need criticism (preferably constructive) at the moment, and I'd be really interested to see if I'm right by any stretch of the imagination or just an old geezer who got lost back at Hippo Molt Cyclizar cores 2 months ago.
Goodnight, and I'll be loading up an all Choice Items team after this to drown my sorrows.
(update: i won lol https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2113823651)
(I put zero thought into that and it still preformed better than stuff I checked speed tiers and ran calcs on)
Meloetta for RU.
Last edited:
If anyone is looking for more specific meta thoughts or discussions, this doesn't have it, you can skip this one. Sorry.
Just some thoughts for you. Yeah, I've felt a little lost since the Zarude ban / March shifts (not that it's a bad thing, but before when I felt lost, I could just slap 2 or 3 of Zarude/Slowking/Tinkaton on a team and it would just do well - not crazy good, but happy enough with win rate/competitiveness - like 1350 - 1450 range). It was just a crutch that aligned with how I typically liked to teambuild. As usual, take these thoughts with lots of grains of salt because I'm by no means a top skilled player, don't keep a super accurate meta read, and (if you squint) might be able to cook a decent team once a week.
I think in a vacuum we have pretty similar team building and play styles (correct me if I'm wrong). Usually balance or bulky offense, prefer to have something to check/counter every major threat, play a safer game without relying on several hard reads/double switches, and have a breaker and a sweeper. Just play until we know everything is probably in range of a sweep and then go. (and hopefully the calcs were right and there aren't misses)
As someone that tends to shy away from HO (no judgement, it's fine if others like it) because in my mind it's very one-dimensional and lacks the "posturing and maneuvering" to enable Win-Con that I enjoy, I think it's hard to play enough to get a good read on the meta or (more specifically) it's hard to play enough to understand how to build/use a competitive team that IS meta and can WIN fairly often against other meta teams.
I (and probably you) just don't have the time to dedicate to this or the experience to draw on to quickly adapt.
Frankly, since February, there is no way to expect to check/counter 70+% of the threats. There are just a lot of games lost on preview. It doesn't take long to notice the common weaknesses on a new teambuild, but that certainly doesn't mean it's easy to fix. I think this was difficult for a lot of players to accept in February, but it seems to be ok now. It was hard for me to adapt to "a good offense is the best defense" or "manage offensive tempo or die" kind of mentalities. After floundering for a couple weeks, I basically decided to say fuck it and mostly play anti-meta, it's worked reasonably well and it's fun enough to keep me interested. This isn't going to enable me to be a ladder hero (not that I've ever aspired to), but it got me back into enjoying most of the games I was playing (win or lose). Anti-meta is a little looser of an idea now that HO is less common, but my original idea behind it was: Beat Kleavor, counter the standard Revavroom set, be able to deal with Leaves/Enam-T/Thundy-T, and have an unexpected win-con (so my opponent isn't likely to have a good understanding of when (or what) I'm utilizing it. Long story short, I've been playing a lot of trick room or odd coverage sets or flipping the typical physical/special damage outputs.
In some sense, I've come to think this actually IS the current meta albeit an extreme fringe example. A generalized statement about the current meta is: Lots of strong and very viable Win-Cons that can work on multiple team architypes. There are very few blanket checks/counters. Some of these Win-Cons are more common and more flexible than others and are considered "top meta picks", but they won't save you if the opponent enables their uncommon Win-Con first. (This can probably be said about a lot of metagames, but it seems different than how RU was in Nov/Dec)
As for your comment on the skill or teambuilding issue, do you save replays (and rewatch them)? I think an important distinction needs to be made on the teambuilding vs battling side. Even though you lost to DD Necrozma, CM Slowbro, the 50th NP Thundy-T, etc... did your team have no hope at any point? If you had made an aggressive prediction, could you have set up your win first? I've lost some close games and realized that I had the tools or opportunities to win but I misused them (and importantly, I had the information to make that conclusion at the time, but failed to do so). I think these teams might be fine, but just need experience to use correctly. On the other side, if there was truly no hope in multiple battles vs different team architypes, yeah, the teambuilding is an issue. I've definitely been there. I have my list of threats I want to handle and then I've looking at my type coverage and defensive type charts and then I think very clinically about having hazards/hazards control/special tank/physical tank/priority/knock-off/u-turn/the kitchen sink... and then the team sucks because I have no tools to actually win! I just made a team that loses slowly. Finally, when you watch some "high skill" matches (like 1550+ ladder or RUPL), do you think you could actually make a similar team from scratch? I always find it reassuring when I independently reach similar conclusions about what is currently good even if I don't have the time to play enough to use it consistently or climb a ladder.
I've tried to watch a fair amount of the SV RUPL games and catch the room tours. There are definitely plenty of lopsided games. Plenty that are mismatched on preview. It might be that the difference between you and Feliburns, Amphas, Dracopopes, etc. is how often you see the Win-con when it presents itself. Finding 9/10 instead of 7/10 makes for a big difference.
I hope my tone is coming off ok, I didn't want this to seem like a lecture, but I'm afraid it might be? Just trying to list helpful hints that I've found along my ways. I'm also happy to chat in DMs if you (or others) want.
100% Meloetta for RU. We stand united!
Have a nice day everyone!
Hey Elec,TW// gaming
Alrighty gamers. [...]
So TLDR for this point, too many things that you can lose to that you have to try and prepare for in 6 measly team slots. [...]
TLDR, too many threats, too few defensive answers, and a really aggressive metagame making it really hard to get a grasp on what exactly I'm doing wrong and where I need to improve, and what I need to prepare for. (i don't even know if it's aggressive tbh i'm that lost) [...]
Meloetta for RU.
Just some thoughts for you. Yeah, I've felt a little lost since the Zarude ban / March shifts (not that it's a bad thing, but before when I felt lost, I could just slap 2 or 3 of Zarude/Slowking/Tinkaton on a team and it would just do well - not crazy good, but happy enough with win rate/competitiveness - like 1350 - 1450 range). It was just a crutch that aligned with how I typically liked to teambuild. As usual, take these thoughts with lots of grains of salt because I'm by no means a top skilled player, don't keep a super accurate meta read, and (if you squint) might be able to cook a decent team once a week.
I think in a vacuum we have pretty similar team building and play styles (correct me if I'm wrong). Usually balance or bulky offense, prefer to have something to check/counter every major threat, play a safer game without relying on several hard reads/double switches, and have a breaker and a sweeper. Just play until we know everything is probably in range of a sweep and then go. (and hopefully the calcs were right and there aren't misses)
As someone that tends to shy away from HO (no judgement, it's fine if others like it) because in my mind it's very one-dimensional and lacks the "posturing and maneuvering" to enable Win-Con that I enjoy, I think it's hard to play enough to get a good read on the meta or (more specifically) it's hard to play enough to understand how to build/use a competitive team that IS meta and can WIN fairly often against other meta teams.
I (and probably you) just don't have the time to dedicate to this or the experience to draw on to quickly adapt.
Frankly, since February, there is no way to expect to check/counter 70+% of the threats. There are just a lot of games lost on preview. It doesn't take long to notice the common weaknesses on a new teambuild, but that certainly doesn't mean it's easy to fix. I think this was difficult for a lot of players to accept in February, but it seems to be ok now. It was hard for me to adapt to "a good offense is the best defense" or "manage offensive tempo or die" kind of mentalities. After floundering for a couple weeks, I basically decided to say fuck it and mostly play anti-meta, it's worked reasonably well and it's fun enough to keep me interested. This isn't going to enable me to be a ladder hero (not that I've ever aspired to), but it got me back into enjoying most of the games I was playing (win or lose). Anti-meta is a little looser of an idea now that HO is less common, but my original idea behind it was: Beat Kleavor, counter the standard Revavroom set, be able to deal with Leaves/Enam-T/Thundy-T, and have an unexpected win-con (so my opponent isn't likely to have a good understanding of when (or what) I'm utilizing it. Long story short, I've been playing a lot of trick room or odd coverage sets or flipping the typical physical/special damage outputs.
In some sense, I've come to think this actually IS the current meta albeit an extreme fringe example. A generalized statement about the current meta is: Lots of strong and very viable Win-Cons that can work on multiple team architypes. There are very few blanket checks/counters. Some of these Win-Cons are more common and more flexible than others and are considered "top meta picks", but they won't save you if the opponent enables their uncommon Win-Con first. (This can probably be said about a lot of metagames, but it seems different than how RU was in Nov/Dec)
As for your comment on the skill or teambuilding issue, do you save replays (and rewatch them)? I think an important distinction needs to be made on the teambuilding vs battling side. Even though you lost to DD Necrozma, CM Slowbro, the 50th NP Thundy-T, etc... did your team have no hope at any point? If you had made an aggressive prediction, could you have set up your win first? I've lost some close games and realized that I had the tools or opportunities to win but I misused them (and importantly, I had the information to make that conclusion at the time, but failed to do so). I think these teams might be fine, but just need experience to use correctly. On the other side, if there was truly no hope in multiple battles vs different team architypes, yeah, the teambuilding is an issue. I've definitely been there. I have my list of threats I want to handle and then I've looking at my type coverage and defensive type charts and then I think very clinically about having hazards/hazards control/special tank/physical tank/priority/knock-off/u-turn/the kitchen sink... and then the team sucks because I have no tools to actually win! I just made a team that loses slowly. Finally, when you watch some "high skill" matches (like 1550+ ladder or RUPL), do you think you could actually make a similar team from scratch? I always find it reassuring when I independently reach similar conclusions about what is currently good even if I don't have the time to play enough to use it consistently or climb a ladder.
I've tried to watch a fair amount of the SV RUPL games and catch the room tours. There are definitely plenty of lopsided games. Plenty that are mismatched on preview. It might be that the difference between you and Feliburns, Amphas, Dracopopes, etc. is how often you see the Win-con when it presents itself. Finding 9/10 instead of 7/10 makes for a big difference.
I hope my tone is coming off ok, I didn't want this to seem like a lecture, but I'm afraid it might be? Just trying to list helpful hints that I've found along my ways. I'm also happy to chat in DMs if you (or others) want.
When I have a string of stupid loses and want to pull my hair out, I really try to remind myself: This is a game. I'm playing this to have fun and (usually) relax. If I'm not having fun, I stop and play a game I know I will enjoy. Life is too short to waste it on displeasures that have no future returns on investment.
100% Meloetta for RU.
We stand united!Have a nice day everyone!
thanks for ye olde advice, big shot known as "lars", I shall take it to heart, and don't worry about the tone I get it.
and don't worry, I've got more where that sig came from (non-exhaustive list)
To make this actually stay mildly relevant, thank GOD that Thundurus-Therian is finally being suspected, we might finally be free. But what if you really wanted something that stonewalls Thundy, can't be hit super effectively by any of it's coverage, and always wins in a 1v1?
Well have I got the solution for you...
that's right it's meloetta, it's always meloetta, meloetta will never lose metagame relevance
Hi, I'm Elec-ant1234, and as per my gimmick, once again right before the Tier Shifts I'm here to report on how Meloetta has been faring.
Meloetta is actually in the strongest position she's been in since like ever, due to Bisharp being not on every team, and Krook being MIA (please use him he's still cracked w/ Knock Off), and due to some of the strongest mons in the tier being special attackers. So, Why not use a Mon with a 100/128/128 special statline...?
set one, for the trick roomers in chat:
Meloetta @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 44 SpA / 212 SpD
Sassy Nature
- U-turn
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Light Screen / Reflect / Calm Mind
Meloetta's special bulk/power is insane, chansey could never dream of being able to achieve the highs that meloetta can
As a trick room setter Meloetta is actually really good, having the bulk to *really consistently* set Trick Room, and have a good offensive presence afterwards. This set is EV'd to always 2HKO Thundurus-Therian w/ Psychic, while Thundy-T has to try and *potentially* 5HKO Meloetta with Thunderbolt. Additionally, Meloetta has the niche of being a TR setter w/ a pivoting move, so against faster mons under TR you can slow pivot in your breakers. Since you aren't really going for pure damage, this set has a pretty open 4th moveslot. The screens are there to be generally useful damage reducers (really nice if you're going to die for sure on a turn), and since TR teams are designed to make the most out of a limited number of turns, the downside of no 8-turn Screens isn't really applicable. CM is there if you want a more offensive option and a mid-game wallbreaker that can muscle past or challenge other CM sweepers.
Set Numero Dos:
Meloetta @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Tera Blast
- Psyshock
The classic set that I've toted before.
If you want to try a new psychic CM sweeper that's immune to Shadow Ball, then Meloetta's for you!
There's not much new to say here, but essentially: Use Sub aggressively, CM behind it or in front of over-zealous special attackers, take advantage of your starting dual stab of psychic + normal w/ regular tera blast, and use tera fighting to resist knock off and beat dark types.
Have fun getting reqs y'all, and have a great day!
and don't worry, I've got more where that sig came from (non-exhaustive list)
To make this actually stay mildly relevant, thank GOD that Thundurus-Therian is finally being suspected, we might finally be free. But what if you really wanted something that stonewalls Thundy, can't be hit super effectively by any of it's coverage, and always wins in a 1v1?
Well have I got the solution for you...
that's right it's meloetta, it's always meloetta, meloetta will never lose metagame relevance
Hi, I'm Elec-ant1234, and as per my gimmick, once again right before the Tier Shifts I'm here to report on how Meloetta has been faring.
Meloetta is actually in the strongest position she's been in since like ever, due to Bisharp being not on every team, and Krook being MIA (please use him he's still cracked w/ Knock Off), and due to some of the strongest mons in the tier being special attackers. So, Why not use a Mon with a 100/128/128 special statline...?
set one, for the trick roomers in chat:
Meloetta @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 44 SpA / 212 SpD
Sassy Nature
- U-turn
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Light Screen / Reflect / Calm Mind
Meloetta's special bulk/power is insane, chansey could never dream of being able to achieve the highs that meloetta can
As a trick room setter Meloetta is actually really good, having the bulk to *really consistently* set Trick Room, and have a good offensive presence afterwards. This set is EV'd to always 2HKO Thundurus-Therian w/ Psychic, while Thundy-T has to try and *potentially* 5HKO Meloetta with Thunderbolt. Additionally, Meloetta has the niche of being a TR setter w/ a pivoting move, so against faster mons under TR you can slow pivot in your breakers. Since you aren't really going for pure damage, this set has a pretty open 4th moveslot. The screens are there to be generally useful damage reducers (really nice if you're going to die for sure on a turn), and since TR teams are designed to make the most out of a limited number of turns, the downside of no 8-turn Screens isn't really applicable. CM is there if you want a more offensive option and a mid-game wallbreaker that can muscle past or challenge other CM sweepers.
vs. iron leaves
0 Atk Meloetta U-turn vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Iron Leaves: 180-216 (52.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs. Thundy-T
252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 100-118 (24.7 - 29.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
48 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Thundurus-Therian: 150-177 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 199-235 (49.2 - 58.1%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs. Enamorus-T
48 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. 140 HP / 0 SpD Enamorus-Therian: 126-148 (38.8 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ SpA Enamorus-Therian Draining Kiss vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 87-103 (21.5 - 25.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Enamorus-Therian Draining Kiss vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta through Light Screen: 43-51 (10.6 - 12.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
48 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. +1 140 HP / 0 SpD Enamorus-Therian: 84-99 (25.9 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
vs. Volcanion
252+ SpA Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 124-147 (30.6 - 36.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
48 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcanion: 135-160 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
vs. Blastoise
252+ SpA Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 93-109 (23 - 26.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Blastoise Surf vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 76-90 (18.8 - 22.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
48 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Blastoise: 120-142 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Surf vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 151-178 (37.3 - 44%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 184-217 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs. Chi Yu
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 298-352 (73.7 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Meloetta U-turn vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Iron Leaves: 180-216 (52.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
vs. Thundy-T
252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 100-118 (24.7 - 29.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
48 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Thundurus-Therian: 150-177 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 199-235 (49.2 - 58.1%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs. Enamorus-T
48 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. 140 HP / 0 SpD Enamorus-Therian: 126-148 (38.8 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ SpA Enamorus-Therian Draining Kiss vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 87-103 (21.5 - 25.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Enamorus-Therian Draining Kiss vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta through Light Screen: 43-51 (10.6 - 12.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
48 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. +1 140 HP / 0 SpD Enamorus-Therian: 84-99 (25.9 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
vs. Volcanion
252+ SpA Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 124-147 (30.6 - 36.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
48 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcanion: 135-160 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
vs. Blastoise
252+ SpA Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 93-109 (23 - 26.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Blastoise Surf vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 76-90 (18.8 - 22.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
48 SpA Meloetta Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Blastoise: 120-142 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Surf vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 151-178 (37.3 - 44%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 184-217 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs. Chi Yu
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Meloetta: 298-352 (73.7 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Set Numero Dos:
Meloetta @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Tera Blast
- Psyshock
The classic set that I've toted before.
If you want to try a new psychic CM sweeper that's immune to Shadow Ball, then Meloetta's for you!
There's not much new to say here, but essentially: Use Sub aggressively, CM behind it or in front of over-zealous special attackers, take advantage of your starting dual stab of psychic + normal w/ regular tera blast, and use tera fighting to resist knock off and beat dark types.
252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 128 SpD Meloetta: 117-138 (28.9 - 34.1%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 128 SpD Meloetta: 78-93 (19.3 - 23%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Meloetta Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-Therian: 144-169 (48.1 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
+1 0 SpA Meloetta Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-Therian: 214-253 (71.5 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0 SpA Meloetta Psyshock vs. 236 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 211-250 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- 35.3% chance to 3HKO
Chansey Seismic Toss vs. 252 HP Meloetta: 100-100 (24.7 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. +1 252 HP / 128+ SpD Meloetta: 88-105 (21.7 - 25.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Meloetta Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcanion: 174-205 (57.8 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tera Fighting Meloetta Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Bisharp: 384-456 (141.6 - 168.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Tera Fighting Meloetta Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Bisharp: 384-456 (114.9 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Breloom Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Meloetta: 343-405 (84.9 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Meloetta: 318-378 (78.7 - 93.5%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Meloetta Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 258-306 (98.8 - 117.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Zoroark-Hisui Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 128+ SpD Meloetta: 96-114 (23.7 - 28.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 128+ SpD Meloetta: 69-82 (17 - 20.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Meloetta Psyshock vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 336-396 (87.5 - 103.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Meloetta: 363-427 (89.8 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 128 SpD Meloetta: 78-93 (19.3 - 23%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Meloetta Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-Therian: 144-169 (48.1 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
+1 0 SpA Meloetta Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-Therian: 214-253 (71.5 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 0 SpA Meloetta Psyshock vs. 236 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 211-250 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- 35.3% chance to 3HKO
Chansey Seismic Toss vs. 252 HP Meloetta: 100-100 (24.7 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. +1 252 HP / 128+ SpD Meloetta: 88-105 (21.7 - 25.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Meloetta Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcanion: 174-205 (57.8 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tera Fighting Meloetta Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Bisharp: 384-456 (141.6 - 168.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Tera Fighting Meloetta Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Bisharp: 384-456 (114.9 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Breloom Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Meloetta: 343-405 (84.9 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Meloetta: 318-378 (78.7 - 93.5%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Meloetta Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 258-306 (98.8 - 117.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Zoroark-Hisui Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 128+ SpD Meloetta: 96-114 (23.7 - 28.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 128+ SpD Meloetta: 69-82 (17 - 20.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Meloetta Psyshock vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 336-396 (87.5 - 103.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 128 Def Meloetta: 363-427 (89.8 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Have fun getting reqs y'all, and have a great day!
Tier shifts happen once every 3 months from now on. No shifts tomorrow.
Anyway, you know I love some 101 Sub action, and Meloetta certainly has the ability to pull it off. It just sucks that she's kinda helpless against HO since all their options are physical. Unlike...
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Protect
- Substitute
Good ol' VinCune with its 101 Subs, I believe this is quite an underrated mon as it can out-PP other fat CM sweepers thanks to Pressure. I especially love pairing it with Lunar Dance Cresselia to restore PP and keep it going. The biggest issue of this set is that you kinda just lose to Water-immune mons but nothing prevents you from PP stalling them too (except Taunt Volcanion in particular). Toxic Spikes really help in that scneario but you need to remove HDB first. A good thing about this set is that it is not helpless against HO. There, Suicune can leverage its good natural bulk to tank something and threaten a Scald burn. In any case...
Meloetta for RU
i met Elec-ant1234 on a rooftop. he said, "i miss her, dude." i said, "i get it, but you don't have to jump." Elec-ant1234 sighed. he put one arm on my shoulder and the other firmly inside me. he swung me over the precipice and whispered, "i'm not going to jump because you're gonna jump for me."
Tier shifts happen once every 3 months from now on. No shifts tomorrow.
Anyway, you know I love some 101 Sub action, and Meloetta certainly has the ability to pull it off. It just sucks that she's kinda helpless against HO since all their options are physical. Unlike...
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Protect
- Substitute
Good ol' VinCune with its 101 Subs, I believe this is quite an underrated mon as it can out-PP other fat CM sweepers thanks to Pressure. I especially love pairing it with Lunar Dance Cresselia to restore PP and keep it going. The biggest issue of this set is that you kinda just lose to Water-immune mons but nothing prevents you from PP stalling them too (except Taunt Volcanion in particular). Toxic Spikes really help in that scneario but you need to remove HDB first. A good thing about this set is that it is not helpless against HO. There, Suicune can leverage its good natural bulk to tank something and threaten a Scald burn. In any case...
Meloetta for RU
i met Elec-ant1234 on a rooftop. he said, "i miss her, dude." i said, "i get it, but you don't have to jump." Elec-ant1234 sighed. he put one arm on my shoulder and the other firmly inside me. he swung me over the precipice and whispered, "i'm not going to jump because you're gonna jump for me."
Fighting-type breakers in RU
Balance teams usually run physical wall + Fighting resist that can recover (Hippo+Noivern, Hippo+Salamence for more offensive cores, or Hippo+Amoonguss and the tried and true HippoMolt for bulkier cores) specifically due to how many exceptionally strong Fighting-type wallbreakers you need to keep in check. This lets Balance teams play around their resistances to handle these offensive behemoths, as Hippo gets cleanly 2HKOed after a single layer of spikes by all of them, and that's the mon with the highest physical bulk in the tier. Let's see who these Fighting-type wallbreakers are, their most common set and how RU teams handle them (outside of "just be faster", because, yes, this is universal counterplay against anything not named Deoxys-Speed).
Okidogi @ Choice Band
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off
- Psychic Fangs
Okidogi is the most popular one according to the most recent usage stats as well as RUPL usages, although it is very close between it and Gapdos. Fighting/Dark/Poison is a very tough coverage to handle defensively, and it even has access to Psychic Fangs to hit Fezan and other Poison types. The ability to spread poison even when clicking Koff or Close Combat is the cherry on top. It can even find opportunities to get on the field by itself thanks to the Fighting/Poison typing giving plenty resistances coupled with a very respectable 88/115/86 bulk for a wallbreaker that allows it to tank even strong hits from Pokemon such as non-Psychic Thundurus-T for example. Tera Dark allows it to transform its 4x Psychic weakness into an immunity as well as giving STAB on Knock Off, making it risky for Psychics to click their STAB if Oki's team hasn't burned Tera yet. The most common defensive plays against is having the physical wall + Fighting resist I talked about in the intro ; Usually sending out Hippo or Amoonguss to check what moves Oki locks itself into, and then switching into your resistance if your first answer cannot tank a second attack.
Overall, Okidogi's unique traits compared to other Fighting-type breakers is high bulk, poison spreading ability and last but certainly not least, Toxic Spikes absorbing.
Zapdos-Galar @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- U-turn
Zapdos-Galar is a Pokemon that always flies just right under the radar, but that doesn't take away its strenghts. After a single layer of Spikes, it cleanly 2HKOes Hippowdon, even with a Jolly nature. This allows it to tie with max speed Jirachi, and makes it the 2nd fastest Fighting-type wallbreaker in the tier. Close Combat + Brave Bird gives perfect coverage against the entirety or RU. This allows it to freely run Knock Off and U-turn to bring added item removal and pivoting support. Its Fighting/Flying typing grants it the all-important Ground-immunity coupled with a Rock neutrality, which makes it a very safe switch-in against Hippowdon and grants a Spikes immunity, which is especially important ever since Palossand Spikes teams started rising in popularity. Defiant is a niche ability but rest in peace Salamence. However, Brave Bird also comes with a nasty 33% recoil, which, when coupled with the popular Rocky Helmet and Hippo's Sand, often cuts its longevity short, which makes switching between resistances that much more effective when handling Gapdos defensively.
Galarian Zapdos's unique traits over other Fighting-type wallbreakers is an immunity to Ground and Spikes, the Defiant ability and access to U-turn and arguably the best STAB combination.
Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast / Quick Attack
or
Terrakion @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Blast
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Blast
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
Terrakion boasts the highest Speed stat among all Fighting-type wallbreakers, allowing it to outspeed Thundurus-T, Iron Leaves after it burns its Quark Drive boost, and Jirachi. Fighting/Rock coverage is a tried and true STAB combination ever since the BW days, and today is no exception, with the ability to cause major headaches to HippoMolt comps that have to play very carefully around Terrakion. Quick Attack brings priority, although a weak one especially when considering the next Fighting-type wallbreakers coming up next, while Rock Blast makes Terrakion the best anti Sash Kleavor lead bar none. Although less popular, Terrakion can also run a Swords Dance set that sacrifices some immediate power in exchange for leveraging its high Speed stat to attempt a sweep, or to make it even scarier to handle defensively if given a turn. However, despite respectable 91/90/90 bulk, Terrakion's defensive profile is very far from being even close to what Okidogi and Zapdos-Galar bring because of its part Rock typing, which makes it very difficult to bring it on the field without support from its team.
Terrakion's unique traits are being an anti sash Kleavor lead and being the fastest Fighting-type wallbreaker.
Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Mach Punch
Boasting the highest Attack stat coupled with Guts, Conkeldurr is incredibly difficult to handle defensively even when prepared for. It is also the one Fighting-type wallbreaker you will see in Trick Room. Close Combat + Facade is a shockingly difficult coverage to switch into, and Knock Off hits Ghost-types. Mach Punch brings a decently strong priority. Conkeldurr is held back by its abysmal Speed stat, which allows even the majority of walls to outspeed it and potentially threaten it before Conkeldurr can act, like Enamorus-T and Moltres. It is also vulnerable to both Spikes and Stealth Rock, and is quickly worn down passively through Flame Orb's burn, Rocky Helmet and Sand. Because of its low special bulk and poor defensive typing, it also struggles to find opportunities to participate against teams on the offensive side of the spectrum.
Conkeldurr's unique traits are having the highest damage output, an immunity to status and being a premier Trick Room abuser.
Breloom @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Close Combat
- Rock Tomb
Breloom's popularity is at an all-time low, recording a 3.95% usage during April, which would have spelt a demotion to NU had it happened a month ago. However, thanks to the quick shifts being discontinued, it is still a RU tier member so I will be covering it. Breloom brings the strongest Fighting-type priority in the form of Technician-boosted Mach Punch. Grass/Fighting typing and Bullet Seed+Close Combat coverage makes Breloom the best wallbreaker into Hippowdon thanks to a resistance to all of Stealth Rock, Earthquake and Stone Edge while hitting it for weakness. Rock Tomb allows Breloom to be the best of the Fighting-type wallbreakers at threatening HippoMolt by outright scoring an OHKO on both Hippowdon and Moltres depending on the move it picks. However, this niche is also a facet of one of Breloom's biggest issues: unreliability. Because of its low speed and bulk, it is one of the most frail Fighting-type wallbreakers. Because Moltres resists both of its STABs, it forces itself into 50/50 situations between picking a STAB move to break what is in front of it but bonking into Moltres and risking a Flame Body burn, or risking a Rock Tomb that would get it in trouble if the opponent doesn't let it happen due to its poor bulk. Breloom also has a very poor matchup against Amoonguss, who has seen a rise in popularity as of late. To top it all off, a lot of threats Breloom would want to revenge kill with Mach Punch either commonly run Tera Ghost (Cobalion, Maushold) or resist the move (Iron Leaves, Yanmega). All in all, Breloom is very reliant on getting the matchups it wants and will end up being deadweight into other matchups, and it ends up being an unreliable pick when compared to other wallbreakers.
Slither Wing @ Choice Band / Protective Pads
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- First Impression
- Wild Charge / Stun Spore
Slither Wing has had a very stable average usage rate for a while now, constanly hovering between 6.5% and 7.5% usage for the past 3 months. It boasts the 2nd highest Attack stat of our Fighting-type wallbreakers, at 135 base. STAB U-turn is great at pivoting around while putting out high damage numbers, especially when considering how many switches it forces thanks to its signature 90 base power STAB First Impression priority coming off of 135 base Attack, which makes it a reliable revenge killer against most setup sweepers, even those who resist the move. Close Combat is a clean 2HKO on Hippowdon from full, even without hazards. Wild Charge hits Moltres the hardest while Stun Spore allows Slither Wing to spread paralysis on forced switch-ins and is a riskless alternative to Wild Charge when trying to punish Moltres. But all is not sunshine and rainbows for the moth. Moltres stands up as its nemesis, resisting both of Slither Wing's STABs and threatening a Flame Body proc for even trying to pivot around with U-turn. First Impression is not an infaillible priority either, forcing Slither Wing to switch out after use, being resisted by Revavroom, and being impossible for it to revenge kill Yanmega because of Protect. Protective Pads sees usage to freely click U-turn against Moltres, but it effectively makes Slither Wing itemless against any team choosing not to run it and sacrifices a ton of power from Choice Band, making Slither Wing go from a fearsome wallbreaker capable to threatening 2HKOs on the vast majority of the tier to a run-of-the-mill offensive mon U-turn bot with revenge killing capabilities. It is still, however, a very threatening Pokemon to see in the enemy team if you don't run Moltres or one of the rare setup sweepers that bypass First Impression due to its strong U-turn and devastating Close Combat.
Honorable mention
Before ending this post, I would like to give an honorable mention to
Cobalion, who, despite not being a "wallbreaker" to the same extent as the Pokemon I just talked about, is also a Fighting-type commonly running Swords Dance sets and being the most used Fighting-type, sitting at #5th place in last month's usage rates with 15% usage. It would be a disservice NOT to talk about it, especially when the point of my post is to show why Fighting-types shape up the metagame.edit: so I added the usage of all the Fighting types I talked about in this post + Cobalion together for science, and you reach a solid 60% (45.5% without Cobalion). That's the edit.
Last edited:
Great post, but one option for terrakion with quick attack is tera normal. This is not actually a bad defensive option as it stuffs gengar and other ghost types that might threaten a weakened team while boosting the power of quick attack. I have found it best personally on sd sets that can sweep weakened teams outright. For example, it has a chance at +2 with tera normal quick attack to ohko gardevoir and can do solid damage to thundy-t with it doing minimum 75% hp.Took me an amqc for the physdef hippo analysis to realize just how many Fighting-type wallbreakers there is in RU, and I figured why not talk about it a little bit because I believe they are a driving force behind the metagame's evolution.
Balance teams usually run physical wall + Fighting resist that can recover (Hippo+Noivern, Hippo+Salamence for more offensive cores, or Hippo+Amoonguss and the tried and true HippoMolt for bulkier cores) specifically due to how many exceptionally strong Fighting-type wallbreakers you need to keep in check. This lets Balance teams play around their resistances to handle these offensive behemoths, as Hippo gets cleanly 2HKOed after a single layer of spikes by all of them, and that's the mon with the highest physical bulk in the tier. Let's see who these Fighting-type wallbreakers are, their most common set and how RU teams handle them (outside of "just be faster", because, yes, this is universal counterplay against anything not named Deoxys-Speed).
Okidogi @ Choice Band
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off
- Psychic Fangs
Okidogi is the most popular one according to the most recent usage stats as well as RUPL usages, although it is very close between it and Gapdos. Fighting/Dark/Poison is a very tough coverage to handle defensively, and it even has access to Psychic Fangs to hit Fezan and other Poison types. The ability to spread poison even when clicking Koff or Close Combat is the cherry on top. It can even find opportunities to get on the field by itself thanks to the Fighting/Poison typing giving plenty resistances coupled with a very respectable 88/115/86 bulk for a wallbreaker that allows it to tank even strong hits from Pokemon such as non-Psychic Thundurus-T for example. Tera Dark allows it to transform its 4x Psychic weakness into an immunity as well as giving STAB on Knock Off, making it risky for Psychics to click their STAB if Oki's team hasn't burned Tera yet. The most common defensive plays against is having the physical wall + Fighting resist I talked about in the intro ; Usually sending out Hippo or Amoonguss to check what moves Oki locks itself into, and then switching into your resistance if your first answer cannot tank a second attack.
Overall, Okidogi's unique traits compared to other Fighting-type breakers is high bulk, poison spreading ability and last but certainly not least, Toxic Spikes absorbing.
Zapdos-Galar @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- U-turn
Zapdos-Galar is a Pokemon that always flies just right under the radar, but that doesn't take away its strenghts. After a single layer of Spikes, it cleanly 2HKOes Hippowdon, even with a Jolly nature. This allows it to tie with max speed Jirachi, and makes it the 2nd fastest Fighting-type wallbreaker in the tier. Close Combat + Brave Bird gives perfect coverage against the entirety or RU. This allows it to freely run Knock Off and U-turn to bring added item removal and pivoting support. Its Fighting/Flying typing grants it the all-important Ground-immunity coupled with a Rock neutrality, which makes it a very safe switch-in against Hippowdon and grants a Spikes immunity, which is especially important ever since Palossand Spikes teams started rising in popularity. Defiant is a niche ability but rest in peace Salamence. However, Brave Bird also comes with a nasty 33% recoil, which, when coupled with the popular Rocky Helmet and Hippo's Sand, often cuts its longevity short, which makes switching between resistances that much more effective when handling Gapdos defensively.
Galarian Zapdos's unique traits over other Fighting-type wallbreakers is an immunity to Ground and Spikes, the Defiant ability and access to U-turn and arguably the best STAB combination.
Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast / Quick Attack
or
Terrakion @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Blast
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
Terrakion boasts the highest Speed stat among all Fighting-type wallbreakers, allowing it to outspeed Thundurus-T, Iron Leaves after it burns its Quark Drive boost, and Jirachi. Fighting/Rock coverage is a tried and true STAB combination ever since the BW days, and today is no exception, with the ability to cause major headaches to HippoMolt comps that have to play very carefully around Terrakion. Quick Attack brings priority, although a weak one especially when considering the next Fighting-type wallbreakers coming up next, while Rock Blast makes Terrakion the best anti Sash Kleavor lead bar none. Although less popular, Terrakion can also run a Swords Dance set that sacrifices some immediate power in exchange for leveraging its high Speed stat to attempt a sweep, or to make it even scarier to handle defensively if given a turn. However, despite respectable 91/90/90 bulk, Terrakion's defensive profile is very far from being even close to what Okidogi and Zapdos-Galar bring because of its part Rock typing, which makes it very difficult to bring it on the field without support from its team.
Terrakion's unique traits are being an anti sash Kleavor lead and being the fastest Fighting-type wallbreaker.
Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Mach Punch
Boasting the highest Attack stat coupled with Guts, Conkeldurr is incredibly difficult to handle defensively even when prepared for. It is also the one Fighting-type wallbreaker you will see in Trick Room. Close Combat + Facade is a shockingly difficult coverage to switch into, and Knock Off hits Ghost-types. Mach Punch brings a decently strong priority. Conkeldurr is held back by its abysmal Speed stat, which allows even the majority of walls to outspeed it and potentially threaten it before Conkeldurr can act, like Enamorus-T and Moltres. It is also vulnerable to both Spikes and Stealth Rock, and is quickly worn down passively through Flame Orb's burn, Rocky Helmet and Sand. Because of its low special bulk and poor defensive typing, it also struggles to find opportunities to participate against teams on the offensive side of the spectrum.
Conkeldurr's unique traits are having the highest damage output, an immunity to status and being a premier Trick Room abuser.
Breloom @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Close Combat
- Rock Tomb
Breloom's popularity is at an all-time low, recording a 3.95% usage during April, which would have spelt a demotion to NU had it happened a month ago. However, thanks to the quick shifts being discontinued, it is still a RU tier member so I will be covering it. Breloom brings the strongest Fighting-type priority in the form of Technician-boosted Mach Punch. Grass/Fighting typing and Bullet Seed+Close Combat coverage makes Breloom the best wallbreaker into Hippowdon thanks to a resistance to all of Stealth Rock, Earthquake and Stone Edge while hitting it for weakness. Rock Tomb allows Breloom to be the best of the Fighting-type wallbreakers at threatening HippoMolt by outright scoring an OHKO on both Hippowdon and Moltres depending on the move it picks. However, this niche is also a facet of one of Breloom's biggest issues: unreliability. Because of its low speed and bulk, it is one of the most frail Fighting-type wallbreakers. Because Moltres resists both of its STABs, it forces itself into 50/50 situations between picking a STAB move to break what is in front of it but bonking into Moltres and risking a Flame Body burn, or risking a Rock Tomb that would get it in trouble if the opponent doesn't let it happen due to its poor bulk. Breloom also has a very poor matchup against Amoonguss, who has seen a rise in popularity as of late. To top it all off, a lot of threats Breloom would want to revenge kill with Mach Punch either commonly run Tera Ghost (Cobalion, Maushold) or resist the move (Iron Leaves, Yanmega). All in all, Breloom is very reliant on getting the matchups it wants and will end up being deadweight into other matchups, and it ends up being an unreliable pick when compared to other wallbreakers.
Slither Wing @ Choice Band / Protective Pads
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- First Impression
- Wild Charge / Stun Spore
Slither Wing has had a very stable average usage rate for a while now, constanly hovering between 6.5% and 7.5% usage for the past 3 months. It boasts the 2nd highest Attack stat of our Fighting-type wallbreakers, at 135 base. STAB U-turn is great at pivoting around while putting out high damage numbers, especially when considering how many switches it forces thanks to its signature 90 base power STAB First Impression priority coming off of 135 base Attack, which makes it a reliable revenge killer against most setup sweepers, even those who resist the move. Close Combat is a clean 2HKO on Hippowdon from full, even without hazards. Wild Charge hits Moltres the hardest while Stun Spore allows Slither Wing to spread paralysis on forced switch-ins and is a riskless alternative to Wild Charge when trying to punish Moltres. But all is not sunshine and rainbows for the moth. Moltres stands up as its nemesis, resisting both of Slither Wing's STABs and threatening a Flame Body proc for even trying to pivot around with U-turn. First Impression is not an infaillible priority either, forcing Slither Wing to switch out after use, being resisted by Revavroom, and being impossible for it to revenge kill Yanmega because of Protect. Protective Pads sees usage to freely click U-turn against Moltres, but it effectively makes Slither Wing itemless against any team choosing not to run it and sacrifices a ton of power from Choice Band, making Slither Wing go from a fearsome wallbreaker capable to threatening 2HKOs on the vast majority of the tier to a run-of-the-mill offensive mon U-turn bot with revenge killing capabilities. It is still, however, a very threatening Pokemon to see in the enemy team if you don't run Moltres or one of the rare setup sweepers that bypass First Impression due to its strong U-turn and devastating Close Combat.
Honorable mention
Before ending this post, I would like to give an honorable mention to
Also, dissapointed that you didn't mention sd chesnaught, the best fighting type sweeper outright. >:(
now listen. i am a ladder goober, i'm completely mediocre at the game, and i have plenty of bad habits i consistently do while playing. HOWEVER, i am more than qualified to talk about a dumb set i've been using for a while now- choice band araquanid.
: @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Atk / 88 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Crunch
- Sticky Web
HEAR ME OUT. this set is a gimmick, but it's a really freaking fun gimmick. Liquidation is your lifeline, your love, your everything. Its what you'll be clicking 80% of the time cause it's water bubble boosted and really strong. Leech life is for hp recovery and the ability to hit the odd grass type or maybe a slowbro on the switch. Crunch is specifically for volcanion, since he hard walls both liquid and leech, plus the defense drops help out a lot. He can't do much back to you though, unless he's running flare blitz for some terrible reason.
the thing has some honestly nasty calcs, doing things like this:
This set is definitely not good. Stealth rock keeps damage up against you, it can't really handle strong physical hits, and you REALLY need liquidation. Water bubble is the only reason the set works; but still, water is just such a good, spammable stab in this tier. The best water resists don't tend to be very physically bulky, bar slowbro.
And almost NOBODY expects their cyclizar to get cleanly 2hko'd, without even factoring in stealth rock on the switch. You don't even need full attack investment for this set, so it allows you to tap into that utterly excellent special defense stat araqua has. And if all else fails, you can still just use sticky web on a predicted switch!
Faking the set as a lead and absolutely obliterating whatever they tried to counter your sticky webs with, is inherently funny. Trick users don't even appreciate using the move against you since, guess what? most trick users don't exactly want a choice band! so you either cripple them for the game by threatening them out the turn after if you got a scarf, or you get your choice band back immediately. This thing in rain hits like an utter truck, making most of its would be 2hkos full out ohkos, but i can't see why you'd really use it there.. or anywhere. But dammit, we need more funny sets that are bad for the sake of humor.
Tldr; funny set does funny things, but i have no idea where or why you'd even use it, outside of a joke team.
: @ Choice BandAbility: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Atk / 88 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Crunch
- Sticky Web
HEAR ME OUT. this set is a gimmick, but it's a really freaking fun gimmick. Liquidation is your lifeline, your love, your everything. Its what you'll be clicking 80% of the time cause it's water bubble boosted and really strong. Leech life is for hp recovery and the ability to hit the odd grass type or maybe a slowbro on the switch. Crunch is specifically for volcanion, since he hard walls both liquid and leech, plus the defense drops help out a lot. He can't do much back to you though, unless he's running flare blitz for some terrible reason.
the thing has some honestly nasty calcs, doing things like this:
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Enamorus-Therian: 255-301 (78.7 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 197-232 (57.2 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-Therian: 372-438 (124.4 - 146.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
168+ Atk Choice Band Araquanid Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Basculegion-F: 248-292 (65 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Okidogi: 246-291 (64.7 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Cobalion: 184-217 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Cobalion: 184-217 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
will add more as i continue playing, i mostly just took stuff off the top viability rankings and ran calcs on them! all calcs are done without stealth rock or spikes btw, so these calcs actually get better with even just 1 layer of spikes at play.
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 197-232 (57.2 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-Therian: 372-438 (124.4 - 146.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
168+ Atk Choice Band Araquanid Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Basculegion-F: 248-292 (65 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Okidogi: 246-291 (64.7 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Cobalion: 184-217 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Cobalion: 184-217 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
will add more as i continue playing, i mostly just took stuff off the top viability rankings and ran calcs on them! all calcs are done without stealth rock or spikes btw, so these calcs actually get better with even just 1 layer of spikes at play.
This set is definitely not good. Stealth rock keeps damage up against you, it can't really handle strong physical hits, and you REALLY need liquidation. Water bubble is the only reason the set works; but still, water is just such a good, spammable stab in this tier. The best water resists don't tend to be very physically bulky, bar slowbro.
And almost NOBODY expects their cyclizar to get cleanly 2hko'd, without even factoring in stealth rock on the switch. You don't even need full attack investment for this set, so it allows you to tap into that utterly excellent special defense stat araqua has. And if all else fails, you can still just use sticky web on a predicted switch!
Faking the set as a lead and absolutely obliterating whatever they tried to counter your sticky webs with, is inherently funny. Trick users don't even appreciate using the move against you since, guess what? most trick users don't exactly want a choice band! so you either cripple them for the game by threatening them out the turn after if you got a scarf, or you get your choice band back immediately. This thing in rain hits like an utter truck, making most of its would be 2hkos full out ohkos, but i can't see why you'd really use it there.. or anywhere. But dammit, we need more funny sets that are bad for the sake of humor.
Tldr; funny set does funny things, but i have no idea where or why you'd even use it, outside of a joke team.
I have used choice band Araquanid in RU, and let me say it is amazing, so it is not a gimmick. I've used it on a semi trick room team (with sd necrozma) and it decimates everything. Araquanid usually has enough special defense to take a few hits and enough defense to take one neutral physical hit, and then precede to decemate everything. I'd recommend 252+ attack since you get the most damage (which is all it is doing) and go tera water, which makes calcs like this happen.now listen. i am a ladder goober, i'm completely mediocre at the game, and i have plenty of bad habits i consistently do while playing. HOWEVER, i am more than qualified to talk about a dumb set i've been using for a while now- choice band araquanid.
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Atk / 88 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Crunch
- Sticky Web
HEAR ME OUT. this set is a gimmick, but it's a really freaking fun gimmick. Liquidation is your lifeline, your love, your everything. Its what you'll be clicking 80% of the time cause it's water bubble boosted and really strong. Leech life is for hp recovery and the ability to hit the odd grass type or maybe a slowbro on the switch. Crunch is specifically for volcanion, since he hard walls both liquid and leech, plus the defense drops help out a lot. He can't do much back to you though, unless he's running flare blitz for some terrible reason.
the thing has some honestly nasty calcs, doing things like this:
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 140 HP / 0 Def Enamorus-Therian: 255-301 (78.7 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 197-232 (57.2 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-Therian: 372-438 (124.4 - 146.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
168+ Atk Choice Band Araquanid Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Basculegion-F: 248-292 (65 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Okidogi: 246-291 (64.7 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Cobalion: 184-217 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
168+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Cobalion: 184-217 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
will add more as i continue playing, i mostly just took stuff off the top viability rankings and ran calcs on them! all calcs are done without stealth rock or spikes btw, so these calcs actually get better with even just 1 layer of spikes at play.
This set is definitely not good. Stealth rock keeps damage up against you, it can't really handle strong physical hits, and you REALLY need liquidation. Water bubble is the only reason the set works; but still, water is just such a good, spammable stab in this tier. The best water resists don't tend to be very physically bulky, bar slowbro.
And almost NOBODY expects their cyclizar to get cleanly 2hko'd, without even factoring in stealth rock on the switch. You don't even need full attack investment for this set, so it allows you to tap into that utterly excellent special defense stat araqua has. And if all else fails, you can still just use sticky web on a predicted switch!
Faking the set as a lead and absolutely obliterating whatever they tried to counter your sticky webs with, is inherently funny. Trick users don't even appreciate using the move against you since, guess what? most trick users don't exactly want a choice band! so you either cripple them for the game by threatening them out the turn after if you got a scarf, or you get your choice band back immediately. This thing in rain hits like an utter truck, making most of its would be 2hkos full out ohkos, but i can't see why you'd really use it there.. or anywhere. But dammit, we need more funny sets that are bad for the sake of humor.
Tldr; funny set does funny things, but i have no idea where or why you'd even use it, outside of a joke team.
252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Tera Water Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Amoonguss: 199-235 (46 - 54.3%) -- 55.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Tera Water Araquanid Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cyclizar: 289-340 (84 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
i usually added the extra spdef so it could bait in thundurus-t and completely decimate it, while also still taking a thunderbolt. but good LORD those calcs make me want to change the set lmao, thanks
Been playing more RU for the first time and I’m having fun with it. One of my favorite mons to use is this.
Armarouge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Armor Cannon
- Psyshock
- Energy Ball
- Trick
This needs rocks off at all times, but its so satisfying seeing shit drop to a Choice Specs Armor Cannon. Armor Cannon even 2HKOs bulky targets like
and
after Tera. Mixed Defense
straight up drops to this as well.
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Armarouge Armor Cannon vs. 252 HP / 160 SpD Hippowdon: 408-482 (97.1 - 114.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Psyshock hits specially bulky targets for huge damage or a KO like
and
.
Energy Ball drops
and does big numbers to
.
What does it for me is that Armarouge has solid 85/100/80 bulk for a wallbreaker and a typing that allows it to switch-in on
,
,
, and
.
Weak Armor allows Armarouge to punish U-Turns and possibly snowball offensive teams or defensive teams alike that lack priority. At +2, it outpaces Booster
which gives you a tool to rkill Leaves if you can pivot into it safely.
I have a replay of Armarouge putting in work against the top player on the ladder at the time running Stall.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2117418428
Armarouge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Armor Cannon
- Psyshock
- Energy Ball
- Trick
This needs rocks off at all times, but its so satisfying seeing shit drop to a Choice Specs Armor Cannon. Armor Cannon even 2HKOs bulky targets like
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Armarouge Armor Cannon vs. 252 HP / 160 SpD Hippowdon: 408-482 (97.1 - 114.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Psyshock hits specially bulky targets for huge damage or a KO like
Energy Ball drops
What does it for me is that Armarouge has solid 85/100/80 bulk for a wallbreaker and a typing that allows it to switch-in on
Weak Armor allows Armarouge to punish U-Turns and possibly snowball offensive teams or defensive teams alike that lack priority. At +2, it outpaces Booster
I have a replay of Armarouge putting in work against the top player on the ladder at the time running Stall.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2117418428
Another fellow choice specs armarouge player, nice. I prefer a max hp with flash fire which helps a lot more defensively. Unless you get extremely unlucky, you can always survive a hippo e-quake after stealth rocks and of course, ko it back. Flash fire also means you don't always have to tera to get big numbers, as you can get something like this.
252 SpA Choice Specs Flash Fire Armarouge Armor Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 379-447 (90.2 - 106.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
And if you tera,
252 SpA Choice Specs Flash Fire Tera Fire Armarouge Armor Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowbro: 238-280 (60.4 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Flash Fire Tera Fire Armarouge Armor Cannon vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Rhyperior: 328-386 (75.5 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Not a metagame discussion post per se but... a video! Here to promote the latest video uploaded on the Smogon RU channel where two council members and a bunch of active players in the tier give their thoughts about the Thundurus-T suspect going on, the latest VR changes, and much more. S/O to everyone who participated!