Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[Z-nogyroP]

Would this make Heat Wave and Defog incompatible on Zapdos?

correct me if i'm wrong, but heat wave is a TM this gen, so you could transfer a defog zapdos and then teach it heat wave once it's in scvi, no?

 

[Eeveeto]

I fail to see how Zamazenta isn't busted honestly. It's neutral speed tier will only be outsped by Pult, Gren, Meow, Leki and ties with torn-t so you can run adamant + band for silly power and CC, Play Rough, Crunch and Stone Edge which no mon resists. Oh and good luck killing it with 326, 399 and 266 defensive stats...

252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 181-214 (35.9 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 193-228 (38.2 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

If OU can defensively handle Band Iron Valiant, it can defensively handle Zamazenta. Valiant has Knock Off and Trick too, so some defensive checks can be neutralized even despite walling Valiant.

Valiant is slower and has much less bulk, but its way harder to check than Zamazenta. Yet Valiant is considered a healthy and not broken OU Mon.
Zamazenta is just a faster and bulkier Iron Valiant that can,t attack from the Special side, has a worse pre-tera typing, worse physical movepool and doesn,t have SD. Yes, it has Iron Defense and Body Press, but 6 whole types resist Fight, Ghost being immune.
Valiant threatens offense, balance and Stall alike.
Zamazenta will be threatening offense much better than Valiant (due to being harder to kill), but will be worse vs Balance and much worse vs Stall.

 

[Moyashi]

252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 181-214 (35.9 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 193-228 (38.2 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

If OU can defensively handle Band Iron Valiant, it can defensively handle Zamazenta. Valiant has Knock Off and Trick too, so some defensive checks can be neutralized even despite walling Valiant.

Valiant is slower and has much less bulk, but its way harder to check than Zamazenta. Yet Valiant is considered a healthy and not broken OU Mon.
Zamazenta is just a faster and bulkier Iron Valiant that can,t attack from the Special side, has a worse pre-tera typing, worse physical movepool and doesn,t have SD. Yes, it has Iron Defense and Body Press, but 6 whole types resist Fight, Ghost being immune.
Valiant threatens offense, balance and Stall alike.
Zamazenta will be threatening offense much better than Valiant (due to being harder to kill), but will be worse vs Balance and much worse vs Stall.

Difference is you can just do this

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 242-286 (48 - 56.7%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

And be able to smash a lot of bulkier stuff while being super threatening to offense. Valiant can't do both because it sits in such a weird in between speed tier. Some stuff like physdef Pex and Amoonguss can help deal with it, and some select others but I'm very skeptical of this mon being balanced long term.

 

[Mega Breloom]

If your team falls apart because of one 30% scald burn, no offense, then your team wasn't well put together. It isn't scald's fault. Plenty of people will keep playing in spite of physical attackers getting burned because they can win other ways.

The same could be said about trapping abilities, Dugtrio just needed to remove one mon to win most of the time for its team to auto win, and now consider that there aren't heal bell users like in past gens to remove the burns.

 

[MrE]

252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 181-214 (35.9 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 193-228 (38.2 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

If OU can defensively handle Band Iron Valiant, it can defensively handle Zamazenta. Valiant has Knock Off and Trick too, so some defensive checks can be neutralized even despite walling Valiant.

Valiant is slower and has much less bulk, but its way harder to check than Zamazenta. Yet Valiant is considered a healthy and not broken OU Mon.
Zamazenta is just a faster and bulkier Iron Valiant that can,t attack from the Special side, has a worse pre-tera typing, worse physical movepool and doesn,t have SD. Yes, it has Iron Defense and Body Press, but 6 whole types resist Fight, Ghost being immune.
Valiant threatens offense, balance and Stall alike.
Zamazenta will be threatening offense much better than Valiant (due to being harder to kill), but will be worse vs Balance and much worse vs Stall.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 266-314 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Chien got banned for this;

252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 238-280 (47.2 - 55.5%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Zama is way bulkier than Chien whilst a touch faster and no 4x weakness to mach punch. With how prevalent hazards are nothing wants to switch into Zama.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Hopefully it’ll be public sometime in the next 1-4 days. That’s a purposefully wide range as if accounts for mishaps and shifts. Just being honest: I don’t have an exact moment in mind. I’ll reveal what I can when I can.

The vote will be done before the actual release? Even if some stuff maybe obvious, there might be changes on what the actual movepool of the returning mons will be, just like on gen 8 we thought Koko was going to get raising voltage or Lele was going to get expanding force it can be unlikely, but what if a mon that gets unbanned gets a move that makes it super OP or viceversa?

 

[Moyashi]

The same could be said about trapping abilities, Dugtrio just needed to remove one mon to win most of the time for its team to auto win, and now consider that there aren't heal bell users like in past gens to remove the burns.

That's a poor comparison. Trapping abilities like arena trap actively removed player agency and forced people to run suboptimal shed tail or walk on eggshells to not get trapped. That level of trapping also enabled a million different things by removing their checks. Scald isn't removing agency. You can plan around it in battle and make decisions. Also, a scald burn doesn't remotely auto win like AT Dug or ST Goth did.

Also Heal Bell... I'd recommend going back and reading the news post because we're potentially getting those back. And it's not heal Bell was.this widespread anti scald tactic. Most teams just dealt with it as it happened.

 

[carbonlifeform]

1) Your current opinion gen 9 ou
2) favorite mons to use
3) most overrated
4) most underrated
5) hopes and dreams for HOME?

1) Building has been super fun, but ladder is crazy fishy and it's super easy to get tilted. Like many others, I love the reduced toxic distribution and the elimination of scald, both of which are counterbalanced by the removal of heal bell making them almost more impactful (I think having status be permanent is one of the weirdest things about re-learning bulky offense/balance in this meta).

2) I never ever ever would have thought I would love Iron Hands as much as I do. I've played with so many sets as the meta has shifted: ID/BP, SD Punching Glove, CB, Manual E-Terrain, AV, SD Shuca. Mixed Iron Valiant (either E-Belt or Scarf) and Iron Moth are also up there (unsurprisingly, I own Violet). Palafin was my beloved child for the handful of days it was around, and I like to pretend I invented the Taunt/Bulk Up set. Scarf Flamigo was hilariously fun in low ladder when people just forgot about Scrappy and repeatedly sacked their Gholdengos to it.

3) Booster Valiant can be scary late game, but its oomph just isn't quite there to be consistent with how frail it is. It struggles to kill things that it doesn't hit SE, while it folds to pretty much any boosted attack, and it becomes much easier to handle without the speed boost. Also, Clodsire is lowkey trash, at least when I try to use it.

4) Justice for Arboliva. This thing deserves to be ranked. It's shockingly consistent, and I think people specifically underestimate the value that special attacking Normal types bring in a tera meta. Being able to pack Tera Blast as legit coverage is nuts. I also never felt like Talonflame was dead weight when I ran it, even without defog. I'm pretty sure I hit my ladder peak in the low 1800s with a TFlame + Arboliva team.

5) A surprise return of Flygon with access to roost and defog? Maybe finally give it rocks (or spikes)? Probably not OU relevant, but it's my favorite `mon, and I would devote the next several years of my life to making it work alongside Iron Hands in whatever tier I can. Other than that, just some stability. Hopefully the updated power level will be enough that the meta won't shift quite so drastically in response to every tiering decision or relevant new `mon to drop (assuming there are any more).

 

[Eeveeto]

Difference is you can just do this

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 242-286 (48 - 56.7%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

And be able to smash a lot of bulkier stuff while being super threatening to offense. Valiant can't do both because it sits in such a weird in between speed tier. Some stuff like physdef Pex and Amoonguss can help deal with it, and some select others but I'm very skeptical of this mon being balanced long term.

With Tera, many breakers are difficult to handle. The same Dondozo can use Tera Fairy (which it already should be running most of the time, since otherwise Baxcalibur goes wild).

Other good checks while being common and overall good Mons:

Skeledirge (weak to Crunch, but usually is Tera Fairy).
Hatterene (only weak to Steel Moves, which Zamazenta won,t be running most of the time).
Volcarona (bulky sets are good, it has Flame Body too), only weak to Stone Edge.
Pult (dies to Crunch and Play Rough but outspeeds)
Gholdengo (only weak to Crunch).
Toxapex (weak to Wild Charge and Psychic Fangs, has Regenerator)
Scream Tail. Currently an UU Mon, but ranked A. Only way Zamazenta breaks this is with Heavy Slam.
Tanchomp (2HKOd but Rocky Helmet and Rough Skin will do a lot of damage. Can run Endure or Rest + Fight resist Tera).
Pelipper (only weak to Wild Charge).
Amoonguss (weak to Ice and Psychic Fangs, has Regenerator).

Of new Mons:
Zapdos (weak to Ice Fang and the probably rare Stone Edge, has Static)
Moltres (weak to Wild Charge and the probably rare Stone Edge, has Flame Body)
Enamorus Therian (weak to many things, but extremely bulky Mon, could use Restalk)
Landorus-T (weak to Ice Fang only, has Intimidate)
Cresselia (weak to Crunch, but if Pdef is not 2HKOd by it, will be using Tera Poison, which is only weak to Psychic Fangs).

Like, yes, it does 2HKO everything with Band. But it can only have 4 Moves at the same time. Close Combat is an obvious one and Crunch is pretty much a must, since Ghosts are common. After that it has to choose 2 out of Play Rough, Psychic Fangs, Wild Charge, Ice Fang, Stone Edge and Heavy Slam. No matter what it chooses, it will always be walled by something and if Banded (which will probably be best set) could be abussed and set up on.
Iron Valiant also 2HKOs the whole Meta with Specs, there is not a single Mon that can,t resist every single move from it. And that is Specs set alone, it can be Band, SD, CM or even some 4 Attacks madness or even Destiny Bond.
Dragapult 2HKOs every single Mon with either Specs or Band, while outspeeding everything.
Baxcalibur has some Mons that it doesn,t 2HKO with Band, but less than 5.
Walking Wake in Sun was Suspected due to the ability to 2HKO everything with just STABs, yet it remained OU (due to needing weather admittely).


Maybe it will end up being broken, I admit its a real possibility. But it does deserve a chance to be tested, just like other previously banned Mons are usually tested from time to time (if it was my way, I wouldn,t be spending a second on Magearna or Lando-I). Stats aren,t everything.

 

[Cuddly]

I fail to see how Zamazenta isn't busted honestly. It's neutral speed tier will only be outsped by Pult, Gren, Meow, Leki and ties with torn-t so you can run adamant + band for silly power and CC, Play Rough, Crunch and Stone Edge which no mon resists. Oh and good luck killing it with 326, 399 and 266 defensive stats...

Dauntless Shield was nerfed in similar fashion to Protean and now only has 120 Atk, which affects both forms, and Crowned form got slightly less bulk too. Additionally, hazards are harder to remove thanks to Gholdango and so many good hazard setters, so offensive teams have a better time again

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 266-314 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Chien got banned for this;

252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 238-280 (47.2 - 55.5%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Zama is way bulkier than Chien whilst a touch faster and no 4x weakness to mach punch. With how prevalent hazards are nothing wants to switch into Zama.

Chien-Pao also has Sword Dance, Sucker Punch, Ice Shard, Dual STABs, its ability worked more than once per switch-in, had STABs that were far more spammable, and whose coverage wasn’t weak as shit.
All Zama Hero has is Close Combat and very weak coverage. It’s also bulkier, even bulkier than Magearna and after losing +1 Defense, but unlike Chien-Pao, you’ll be forced out often. Chien-Pao could sweep instantly, while Zamazenta-H at best can switch into scary offensive Pokemon and threaten out a few times.
As for Crowned form, it’s harder to say. Its bulk is massive, but hazards are way more prominent, plenty of powerful Pokemon exist that can threaten it, and while Body Press is stronger, Zama is overall weaker when you can’t use offensive items.

 

[Mega Breloom]

That's a poor comparison. Trapping abilities like arena trap actively removed player agency and forced people to run suboptimal shed tail or walk on eggshells to not get trapped. That level of trapping also enabled a million different things by removing their checks. Scald isn't removing agency. You can plan around it in battle and make decisions. Also, a scald burn doesn't remotely auto win like AT Dug or ST Goth did.

Also Heal Bell... I'd recommend going back and reading the news post because we're potentially getting those back. And it's not heal Bell was.this widespread anti scald tactic. Most teams just dealt with it as it happened.

The thing with scald is that very often you need to use the mon who doesn't want to get burn to beat the scald mon, so it is not just dancing around one mon to beat others, is actually dancing around that mon Pex is the best example, if it runs the special def set with scald it already walls the other side and is just the matter of beating the physical mons and that happens (officially) 30% of the time. Idk, games being decided by 30% chances often doesn't sound like should happen on a competitive game, losing a game because of a 50-50 with tera or just a wrong predict is bad, but at least you could have done something differently but with something like scald it doesn't depend on either of the players if it will burn or not, even if both players predict each other play the outcome gets decided by a chance lower than a OHKO move.
Edit: also, for what most people have said, only the moves that could be learned in gen 8 will return, so that gives us only with Chansey as the only mon gaining again heal bell.

 

[Moyashi]

The thing with scald is that very often you need to use the mon who doesn't want to get burn to beat the scald mon,

Beating scald users was not nearly that constrained. If it WAS as you say, there'd actually probably have been widespread discussion. But there wasn't. Scald users weren't just clicking the movs 99% of the time. A Slowbro forced to slack off or trying to future sight (something you could generally spot) was entry for a mon to chase it out, even physical threats. Pex forced to recover would let in a special breaker that chased it out. The interaction wasn't so simple as you think.

Idk, games being decided by 30% chances often doesn't sound like should happen on a competitive game, losing a game because of a 50-50 with tera or just a wrong predict is bad, but at least you could have done something differently but with something like scald it doesn't depend on either of the players if it will burn or not, even if both players predict each other play the outcome gets decided by a chance lower than a OHKO move.

Games shouldn't be decided by 30% burn chances, but it's a good thing they're not being decided that way. Like I said if your team is crumpling because your physical attacker got burned, your team had issues that needed fixing in the builder. If your team is that prone to being fucked by a burn, then not only scald but any burn source like wisp or flame body would similarly end you. Scald burns aren't going to end games. You should build with it in mind like any good move.

Now if this was still gen6 scald and the awfulness of the higher burn chip damage, you'd have a point maybe.

 

[awyp]

I'm a lil late but some opinions (After HOME subject to change but these are assumptions until the meta is being played)

Annihilape: Ban unless Tera gets banned
Basculegion: Ban
Chi Yu: Ban
Chien Pao: Ban unless Tera gets banned
Espathra: Ban unless Tera gets banned
Flutter Mane: Ban
Houndstone: Ban
Iron Bundle: Ban unless Tera gets banned
Lando-I: Suspect test
Magearna: Ban :(
Palafin: Ban
Regieleki: Ban unless Tera gets banned
Spectrier: Ban
Urshifu: Ban
Zamazenta: Suspect test
Zamazenta Crowned: Suspect test

Yeah, so p much outside 3 mons most of the things should be banned if tera is running free.

 

[Just A Shroom God]

Annihilape: BAN
It entirely invalidates stall single-handedly and however much we hate stall, I don't think a single pokemon that can invalidate an entire playstyle while being pretty good into others should be allowed.
Basculegion: BAN
It's like houndstone, but better!
Chi Yu: BAN
forces Blissey to tera into a resist to survive it
Chien Pao: IDK
I'm hesitant on this one because I get that people think it's going to be handled easier with HOME powercreep, but really, what new checks do we get besides Tapu Fini, which doesn't even have recovery? Dondozo is the ultimate physical wall but even it falls to banded Tera Dark Crunches with CB.
Espathra: BAN
Same as chien-pao, we don't get many new checks to it and it still cheeses everything
Flutter Mane: BAN
Lmao
Houndstone: BAN
I feel like a common point with this new gen 9 powercreep we already have the best checks we're gonna get to this stuff in Gambit. Still busted with Last Respects and sand teams might be more viable with all the good abusers back
Iron Bundle: IDK
Still fast, strong, and nearly unwallable but more neutral options like ferrothorn might make it more viable to play around it.
Lando-I: BAN
Who the fuck decided to give this thing nasty plot
Magearna: BAN
Who the fuck decided to give this thing spikes
Palafin: IDK
See Iron Bundle
Regieleki: BAN
Fast, strong, and now has coverage with the incredibly balanced funny hat mechanic
Spectrier: BAN
See Regieleki
Urshifu: BAN
Haha swords dance + literally better protective pads go brrrrrr
Zamazenta: BAN
If you remember last generation, Zamazenta had a suspect test to come down to OU, and I think many of the anti-OU points are no longer relevant. The crux of the issue was that it was too bulky for being strong and fast and having decent enough coverage. I think the nerf to Dauntless Shield fixes this somewhat, as well as the nerf to its base attack. It's a lot more wallable now, and is overall easier to revenge kill with the nerfs. Nothing OU shouldn't be able to handle.
-my argument for if this thing didn't get body press + iron defense
Holy shit this thing is going to be so impossible to kill, it's like garganacl but faster and has a stronger body press. You have to not crumple to its STAB +3 Body Press, have to be able to damage it on the special side, and you have to outspeed it if you want to deal with it. That's not even to mention funny hat mechanic that just allows it to flip what special threats can actually kill it. I can actually see this thing sweeping teams. Please keep it banned
Zamazenta-Hero: BAN
See above

 

[Cuddly]

I'm a lil late but some opinions (After HOME subject to change but these are assumptions until the meta is being played)

Annihilape: Ban unless Tera gets banned
Basculegion: Ban
Chi Yu: Ban
Chien Pao: Ban unless Tera gets banned
Espathra: Ban unless Tera gets banned
Flutter Mane: Ban
Houndstone: Ban
Iron Bundle: Ban unless Tera gets banned
Lando-I: Suspect test
Magearna: Ban :(</p><p>Palafin: Ban
Regieleki: Ban unless Tera gets banned
Spectrier: Ban
Urshifu: Ban
Zamazenta: Suspect test
Zamazenta Crowned: Suspect test

Yeah, so p much outside 3 mons most of the things should be banned if tera is running free.

Annihilape: BAN
It entirely invalidates stall single-handedly and however much we hate stall, I don't think a single pokemon that can invalidate an entire playstyle while being pretty good into others should be allowed.
Basculegion: BAN
It's like houndstone, but better!
Chi Yu: BAN
forces Blissey to tera into a resist to survive it
Chien Pao: IDK
I'm hesitant on this one because I get that people think it's going to be handled easier with HOME powercreep, but really, what new checks do we get besides Tapu Fini, which doesn't even have recovery? Dondozo is the ultimate physical wall but even it falls to banded Tera Dark Crunches with CB.
Espathra: BAN
Same as chien-pao, we don't get many new checks to it and it still cheeses everything
Flutter Mane: BAN
Lmao
Houndstone: BAN
I feel like a common point with this new gen 9 powercreep we already have the best checks we're gonna get to this stuff in Gambit. Still busted with Last Respects and sand teams might be more viable with all the good abusers back
Iron Bundle: IDK
Still fast, strong, and nearly unwallable but more neutral options like ferrothorn might make it more viable to play around it.
Lando-I: BAN
Who the fuck decided to give this thing nasty plot
Magearna: BAN
Who the fuck decided to give this thing spikes
Palafin: IDK
See Iron Bundle
Regieleki: BAN
Fast, strong, and now has coverage with the incredibly balanced funny hat mechanic
Spectrier: BAN
See Regieleki
Urshifu: BAN
Haha swords dance + literally better protective pads go brrrrrr
Zamazenta: BAN
If you remember last generation, Zamazenta had a suspect test to come down to OU, and I think many of the anti-OU points are no longer relevant. The crux of the issue was that it was too bulky for being strong and fast and having decent enough coverage. I think the nerf to Dauntless Shield fixes this somewhat, as well as the nerf to its base attack.
-my argument for if this thing didn't get body press + iron defense
Holy shit this thing is going to be so impossible to kill, it's like garganacl but faster and has a stronger body press. You have to not crumple to its STAB +3 Body Press, have to be able to damage it on the special side, and you have to outspeed it if you want to deal with it. That's not even to mention funny hat mechanic that just allows it to flip what special threats can actually kill it. I can actually see this thing sweeping teams. Please keep it banned
Zamazenta-Hero: BAN
See above

Last Respects will be banned you mean?
Also doubt Chien-Pao and Iron Bundle would be ok in OU even without Tera. Former had an effective attack stat of 176 packed with 135 Speed, and the latter has Water+Freeze Dry coverage, which hits everything besides Blissey, then is only outsped by Dragapult.

 

[taziathegreat]

Considered what Pokémon are coming, I personally would of preferred a much more liberal unbanning

 

[qways]

i think regieleki and the zamazentas could be suspected. the other mons should stay banned.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Why is Regieleki on the slate? Is it because of Tera Ice BoltBeam coverage?

 

[Just A Shroom God]

Why is Regieleki on the slate? Is it because of Tera Ice BoltBeam coverage?

short answer: yes
Long answer: Regieleki's Transistor-boosted Rising Voltages or just plain Thunderbolts are just kinda stupid when what wants to resist them is getting slammed by 120 bp (after stab) supereffective coverage. Plus it's just stupid fast and kinda invalidates offense to a degree.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

i'm still advocating for a test of gira-a at some point once the initial post-home chaos settles down. yes, yes, big scary box legendary, ooo how spooky, who cares. if it's losing defog and toxic, and if tera sticks around, it at least deserves a shot.

 

[awyp]

i'm still advocating for a test of gira-a at some point once the initial post-home chaos settles down. yes, yes, big scary box legendary, ooo how spooky, who cares. if it's losing defog and toxic, and if tera sticks around, it at least deserves a shot.

It's not losing Defog.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

It's not losing Defog.

well in that case never mind, that's too much utility. viewpoint canceled. that's what i get for not reading the announcement all the way through

 

[G-Luke]

But what's the point of keeping it? Now's an opportunity, we had months of modern comp Pokemon without getting random scald burns and it was really nice for once. It's extremely frustrating to a large amount of players and I can imagine that keeping it around in gen 9 could scare off a large swat of players

That is all hypothetical however. Maybe it won't be learnable in Home and we just misunderstood the wording

Wym what's the point? If a move is not uncompetitive nor broken, there is no need to ban it. Scald is not broken nor uncompetitive. So it will never be banned.

 

[Ctann]

Zapdos, tornados and landorus are about to become meta

so, there’s a good chance weavile and Garchomp will become so meta rn too. They have great matchups against those. Landrous v Garchomp is a slight exception, but only slight.

loaded dice + scale shot or icicle spear on the aforementioned will also be interesting to see.

chien pao is likely going to feast if let back in. Curious to see if kingambit gets banned with STAB knock off, you’re always making progress against tusk, who gets to switch in significantly less.

 

[Moyashi]

Zapdos, tornados and landorus are about to become meta

so, there’s a good chance weavile and Garchomp will become so meta rn too. They have great matchups against those. Landrous v Garchomp is a slight exception, but only slight.

loaded dice + scale shot or icicle spear on the aforementioned will also be interesting to see.

chien pao is likely going to feast if let back in. Curious to see if kingambit gets banned with STAB knock off, you’re always making progress against tusk, who gets to switch in significantly less.

Yeah the wave of great fliers coming in is awesome news and should open up nice possibilities. Assuming knock+axel weavile, I expect it to shoot right up. Knocking off the item of fat walls like Dondozo and Corv is a big plus. Garchomp I think will have an interesting dynamic with the other boosting dragons. Should be fun.

I'm not personally interested in a Pao meta again nd I don't know what some people see that would make it remotely balanced compared to before (HOME doesn't add anything to help keep it in check).