Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[Harmless]

I kinda like power creep, at least with restraint. I wouldn't like the same Pokemon to keep dominating forever and ever. Tyranitar being a UU Pokemon is unironically cool with me, and I don't want a buff to Tyranitar. I just see it as a natural thing with the game.

tyranitar was hugely nerfed because they removed his defining pursuit and also killed sand by having no good abusers in the game. It's just a more roundabout way that they nerfed gren.

While it's nice to see some new faces in the tier, power creep pushing out so many old pokemon goes kinda suck imo. Like that's my goat, and it's not like they do the exact same thing every gen. Part of what made them good is how adaptable they are. Chomp isn't even bad, it's just hard to justify over great tusk and gets shit on by valient.

 

[MrE]

tyranitar was hugely nerfed because they removed his defining pursuit and also killed sand by having no good abusers in the game. It's just a more roundabout way that they nerfed gren.

While it's nice to see some new faces in the tier, power creep pushing out so many old pokemon goes kinda suck imo. Like that's my goat, and it's not like they do the exact same thing every gen. Part of what made them good is how adaptable they are. Chomp isn't even bad, it's just hard to justify over great tusk and gets shit on by valient.

Now that seemingly every pokemon is getting a signature move even shit like Maushold they really need to make pursuit Ttars signature.

 

[carbonlifeform]

Yo, 1LDK, am I doing it right?

@ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
Tera Type: ???
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spiky Shield
- Leech Seed
- Taunt / Synthesis
- Drain Punch / Super Fang

Gonna be messing around with this idea as soon as your boy Chesnaught is available to annoy the crap out of physical attackers and walls. Probably terrible (literally can't touch Gholdengo other than scouting choiced sets), but I'll make at least one player rage quit after I tilt down to the 1300s. I think Taunt + Super Fang + Lefties is gonna be the winning play if anything, but I want rocky helmet to work so bad.

 

[1LDK]

Yo, 1LDK, am I doing it right?

@ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
Tera Type: ???
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spiky Shield
- Leech Seed
- Taunt / Synthesis
- Drain Punch / Super Fang

Gonna be messing around with this idea as soon as your boy Chesnaught is available to annoy the crap out of physical attackers and walls. Probably terrible (literally can't touch Gholdengo other than scouting choiced sets), but I'll make at least one player rage quit after I tilt down to the 1300s. I think Taunt + Super Fang + Lefties is gonna be the winning play if anything, but I want rocky helmet to work so bad.

I would say drop Spiky Shield, if you want Rocky helmet + taunt, you want the little shit to attack you, so Synthesis will probably help survive, and 28 spe for corviknight if feeling it. And the tera is either steel, fairy or water, you can think whats better

Fun fact: 252 hp 228 def impish Chesnaught survives a no atack invest Brave bird from Corv, so you can potentially taunt it out of defog and get something like Bax in for free

 

[Cuddly]

Honestly Tera Poison sounds nice for Chesnaught. Unlike Steel, Chesnaught gains a resistance to Fighting while also resisting Fairy and being immune to Poisons. This is important since Iron Valiant does often run Close Combat, and Water or Fairy Tera would just be dunked on by Moonblast/Thunderbolt anyways. Psyshock exists, but since Chesnaught has good Physical bulk, so nonSTAB Psyshock doesn’t hurt as much.

 

[Mega Breloom]

tyranitar was hugely nerfed because they removed his defining pursuit and also killed sand by having no good abusers in the game. It's just a more roundabout way that they nerfed gren.

While it's nice to see some new faces in the tier, power creep pushing out so many old pokemon goes kinda suck imo. Like that's my goat, and it's not like they do the exact same thing every gen. Part of what made them good is how adaptable they are. Chomp isn't even bad, it's just hard to justify over great tusk and gets shit on by valient.

It is funny how people don't want Chomp to drop to UU but at the same time they are yelling at Treads because it didn't drop when the later can do more than Chomp (but both are outclassed a lot).

 

[pika pal]

It is funny how people don't want Chomp to drop to UU but at the same time they are yelling at Treads because it didn't drop when the later can do more than Chomp (but both are outclassed a lot).

Because Treads stands a chance at being fair in UU, I don't know how much I trust Garchomp down there.

Also some people hoping if Treads goes down then he'll become the main Hazard Control and UU will stop hoarding all the Rapid Spinners from RU and such.

 

[awyp]

It is funny how people don't want Chomp to drop to UU but at the same time they are yelling at Treads because it didn't drop when the later can do more than Chomp (but both are outclassed a lot).

I've been using chomp, it's not a UU caliber mon. It would get quickbanned, I think honestly its a solid OU mon people don't want to follow the trend and be creative with sets. I've been using chomp recently and had a lot of success.

 

[Pando067]

It is funny how people don't want Chomp to drop to UU but at the same time they are yelling at Treads because it didn't drop when the later can do more than Chomp (but both are outclassed a lot).

Both are kinda mid tbh. Chomp would be too broken for UU but treads could be good (maybe even too good).

 

[DiscoDucky]

I've been using chomp, it's not a UU caliber mon. It would get quickbanned, I think honestly its a solid OU mon people don't want to follow the trend and be creative with sets. I've been using chomp recently and had a lot of success.

People aren't using Eject Pack Draco Meteor Garchomp and I'm disappointed

 

[Mega Breloom]

I've been using chomp, it's not a UU caliber mon. It would get quickbanned, I think honestly its a solid OU mon people don't want to follow the trend and be creative with sets. I've been using chomp recently and had a lot of success.

A person who uses Treads can say the same, but that won't makes less true that both are outclassed by mons who are super popular. Once Lando returns I can see both dropping to UU for good. Also, if Gren haven't been quickbanned yet, maybe Chomp could be a legit mon in UU, be we won't know until it drops.

 

[awyp]

People aren't using Eject Pack Draco Meteor Garchomp and I'm disappointed

Stop telling people the heat that will be dismantling the ladder. (FIRE)

 

[tommytt22]

Anyone else find it weird that valiants 116 speed feels too slow? Gen 9 speed tiers are all over the place, goes to show speed is relative you only need to be faster than what you want to check. Meanwhile Rotom wash, volc, tusk all seem plenty fast enough

 

[ianlazerbeem]

There's no way to balance or restrict tera in a meaningful way.

Preview will make tera 5% less broken, and the meta 10% more wonky.
(putting tera fairy on Glimm and not having d-gleam lmao)
(I also think preview will cause a small % rise in pure 50/50's, but nothing wild)

1 mon tera just causes more issues than it could ever solve and invalidates defensive tera.

If tera was a held item, or reverted back when mon is switched, or something wildly drastic like that then it would be more balanced.
The way it works now, you can't fix that.

Tera will most likely stay, and we'll get preview I assume, but that's basically the only "restriction" that solves more problems than it causes, technically.
It won't do much to address your last issue.

But as I said recently, meta is in a decent spot.
It was jarring to get used to stealing momentum back after it got stolen from you, after years of, y'know, earning it lol- and it still feels uncomp af and unfair- but it's a playable meta- just far from as competitive and balanced as it could be.

Once home drops, we will lose several mons that otherwise would be fine w/o tera, but the playerbase seems fine with that.

Essentially, don't try to fix tera, just do your best to mitigate the unfairness.
Should your specs Val be able to kill a Hydre? Yes. Did it steal momentum by tera Steel and killing you? Yes. But can you steal it back now that it's Steel? Hopefully.
Once that goofy ass, comically broken exchange happens, you're free to play pokemon again.

It kinda all balances out in a weird way.
Building and playing, I'm usually working on a lure of some kind, like I wanted you to tera Hydre and take my Val, now u lose to King sucker.

Reminds me of companies I've worked with.
There are some managers/employees you work with, and some you work around.
Tera is something you have to work around if you want it to feel less unfair.

This is a really good position. I'm also of the opinion, although I'm treading a bit into "broken checks broken," a lot of OU is much easier to manage with Tera, but especially a lot of the "favored types" like Steel Dragon and Fairy, with the limited Dex a lot of Pokémon like Iron Valiant, Dragapult, Roaring Moon, etc have more counterplay options than they would without Tera

 

[UnusualBoy]

If Chomp drops to UU, it’d be the end of an era. Power Creep is such a bitch this era, Ttar who used to be the king of OU down to UU where he is good but not the best, Gren who used to be Ubers and excellent in OU is just ok in UU and now the tier is in risk of losing a OU staple in Garchomp.

All I know is that GF needs to stop nerfing pokemon for the sake of it, although if that means they could nerf the shit out of Landorus by changing Intimidate by truant or something, keep up GF!

 

[Moyashi]

I've been using chomp, it's not a UU caliber mon. It would get quickbanned, I think honestly its a solid OU mon people don't want to follow the trend and be creative with sets. I've been using chomp recently and had a lot of success.

Chomp is still fine, but the problem is that it is harder to justify when it doesn't particularly specialize well enough into any one role. Chain Chomp is still the best I feel of its sets, but it feels like other grounds have more distinct niches. Supporting roles not as great right now while strict physical offensive sets are just outclassed by other dragons and grounds. The rise of Scream Tail also seriously hurts because it walls it forever, encores SD attempts. The 102 speed what was once famous is now shockingly underwhelming. It almost feels like what is the extra speed good for anymore beyond checking some Volcarona.

Gren who used to be Ubers and excellent in OU is just ok in UU and now the tier is in risk of losing a OU staple in Garchomp.

Still solid here in OU mind you. And is excellent in UU.

 

[Mega Breloom]

The 102 speed what was once famous is now shockingly underwhelming. It almost feels like what is the extra speed good for anymore beyond checking some Volcarona.

Imagine trying to explain somebody in the B&W era that Hydreigon will be better than Chomp because Hydreigon speed is great for its role while Chomp's is mediocre for its.

All I know is that GF needs to stop nerfing pokemon for the sake of it, although if that means they could nerf the shit out of Landorus by changing Intimidate by truant or something, keep up GF!

Hey, at least they nerfed Lando-T a bit if Home doesn't allow to transfer the old moves... until the DLCs give them back and some extra tools.

 

[MegaScizor32]

I've been using chomp, it's not a UU caliber mon. It would get quickbanned, I think honestly its a solid OU mon people don't want to follow the trend and be creative with sets. I've been using chomp recently and had a lot of success.

I agree. I dont see Garchomp dropping out of OU. In my opinion its the 3rd best mixed attacker in the whole game behind Dragapult and Iron valiant, which says a lot considering those are A+ viable mons.

252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 364-429 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It can comfortably get rocks up and not be afraid of Tusk. It can also tera fire or steel to flip the script on Pult or Valiant.

 

[1LDK]

Hey guys
Did you know that Garchomp has a better attack stat than special attack? Because GF designed the mon to be a physical attacker?

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 194-230 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

How about you guys stop trying to make Chain Chomp work
"it's the best set because it lures tusk"

1) If everybody says its the best set then of course great tusk is gonna stop going after your ass, the LO damage on EQ exposes you already, you don't even get the point of a lure set, you're not luring shit, you don't even get the basic idea of the set

2) Who the fuck says that you have to lure tusk? Is it mandatory? Are you forced to do it? No, nobody is forcing you to use chain chomp to lure tusk, why don't you just attack it directly, not every team has wish support alongside tusk, and tusk doesn't have recovery

3) Sure, spikes/rocks on chomp sound cool, you know what else is cool? Trying to naturally punish tusk with rough skin + damage, or better yet, if you wanna actually use a "lure move" use liquidation

4) oh no speed, if you wanna use band, go with either webs or volt turn support, and choice scarf is still great

Something in my brain dies inside every time I see one of you talk about chain chomp as the sacred holy grail of chomp sets these days. I know I probably sound hostile, I'm not mad, I'm just sad
For any UU player reading this, don't use chain chomp to lure donphan or foretress, is not worth it, just don't man

My soul is too burned out for today, ill go to sleep and see my 100000 hahas farmed for free tommorrow morning

EDIT: And before I forget, If I see any of you guys running Leaf Storm on Chesnaught to "lure" tusk, I swear to God

 

[awyp]

Hey guys
Did you know that Garchomp has a better attack stat than special attack? Because GF designed the mon to be a physical attacker?

252 Atk Choice Band Tera Ground Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 194-230 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

How about you guys stop trying to make Chain Chomp work
"it's the best set because it lures tusk"

1) If everybody says its the best set then of course great tusk is gonna stop going after your ass, the LO damage on EQ exposes you already, you don't even get the point of a lure set, you're not luring shit, you don't even get the basic idea of the set

2) Who the fuck says that you have to lure tusk? Is it mandatory? Are you forced to do it? No, nobody is forcing you to use chain chomp to lure tusk, why don't you just attack it directly, not every team has wish support alongside tusk, and tusk doesn't have recovery

3) Sure, spikes/rocks on chomp sound cool, you know what else is cool? Trying to naturally punish tusk with rough skin + damage, or better yet, if you wanna actually use a "lure move" use liquidation

4) oh no speed, if you wanna use band, go with either webs or volt turn support, and choice scarf is still great

Something in my brain dies inside every time I see one of you talk about chain chomp as the sacred holy grail of chomp sets these days. I know I probably sound hostile, I'm not mad, I'm just sad
For any UU player reading this, don't use chain chomp to lure donphan or foretress, is not worth it, just don't man

My soul is too burned out for today, ill go to sleep and see my 100000 hahas farmed for free tommorrow morning

EDIT: And before I forget, If I see any of you guys running Leaf Storm on Chesnaught to "lure" tusk, I swear to God

what you mean? it's the best set! why would u use 130 attack when you can invest 252 evs into special attack?
/ratio

 

[Lily]

A well-structured chainchomp isn't used to lure Great Tusk. It's used to make sure you don't immediately get your hazards removed by Great Tusk every time you set them up. Because Great Tusk is the most common hazard remover by a long shot, this means Garchomp is a reasonably reliable hazard setter for offensive teams.

That is it. It isn't that deep. This thread does not need to get shat up by people complaining about whether it's good or it isn't; it's fine, it gets usage, it has its place because it does what the other sets can't do. It doesn't matter if it's the best set or whatever. Just leave it be.

 

[Exotic64]

chain chomp has crazy coverage. it hits pretty much everything in OU for a 2HKO - as long as it doesn't get outsped. Personally I like chainchomp better than SD or attack chomp because they just get hard walled by anything that's faster than them / corviknight so that's why people use sub
hazards chomp is very nice tho rough skin + rocky helmet is goes crazy

 

[awyp]

Anyway to add valuable conversation and double post:

People like don't thinking out of the box when it comes to potential bans so I'll stir the conversation since I have the energy.

Booster Energy has messed up the metagame and should be suspect tested, the only thing you see in high ladder is people spamming the same 15 mons HO / booster energy spam. The entire meta is surrounded around 25 turns or less types of games. Booster Energy is spammed way more than Elec Terrain / Sun teams. The reason is because how much easier it is to build your team (less restrictions) with the additional benefit of where the meta is leaning in terms of HO. Booster Energy (Proto + Quark) mons for the most part even without Booster Energy are already very good mons but when you stick a + 1.3 / 1.5 boost (one time boost per switchin) on any stat (usually SpA, Att, and Speed) it becomes overwhelming. Most teams look like Entry Setter + 3 Booster Mons + Breaker + Kingambit / Great Tusk.

I don't know if it should be banned to be honest, but there should definitely be conversation of it being suspected especially since there's no word on when HOME comes out.

 

[MegaScizor32]

Banded Chomp is Strong as hell.
252 Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 258-304 (51.1 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 234-276 (53.9 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

These are the two top Physical walls being 2 hit-ko’d by Tera Dragon CB Outrage.

Mixed Chomp is just more versatile tho because nothing can switch into it. Physical walls like Dondozo and Tusk get destroyed by Draco Meteor.

And as for the last of the best physical walls Corviknight:

252+ SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 198-234 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And thats specially defensive Corviknight, if its a physically defensive corv its done for.

 

[1LDK]

Just leave it be.

Alright then, I'm gonna leave it be, but let the record show I'm not enthusiastic about the idea in the slightest
So I'm gonna change topic to another meme like set, but that has actually worked for me and doesn't make me feel bad when using it

Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Earthquake
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Extreme Speed

I stole this set from the Next Big thing constest
Rain Abuser Dnite, it's kind of mix lure set with max SPA and stuff
Outside of rain, this thing is ass to the point of self-hatred, you will feel like nothing matters when rain is down
But if rain is up, then oh man, the post said it itself, clodsire, garganacl, tusk, waters, all gone from the face of the earth

it's helped out by rain, making Hurricane and Thunder fully accurate and multiscale, making it a 1 time fuck off big damage

I know that I'm famous for not liking this trend of mix sets, but this set, IMO is the exception to the rule, and If I do like it, I'm sure you all will love it