Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[Return to Zero]

Besides “better than Iron Valiant Bulk” and some semantics, everything here can really apply to Iron Valiant.
It has less attack but has much stronger moves, it’s naturally slower but has Booster Energy/Quark Drive, and instead of Nasty Plot it has Sword Dance and also Calm Mind because Iron Valiant can go both ways offensively. Unless Darkrai gets a massive buff with DLC or if there is a massive roadblock introduced for IV (like that peach pokemon teased in the DLC becomes a Poison type immune to Psychic or something), IV would likely be banned first.

Valiant's Speed being tied to Booster Energy hurts a lot since if it ever has to come in more than once it goes from outspeeding the whole tier to outspeeding maybe two-thirds of it at most. Red Card popped up a bit for a reason. In contrast, Darkrai is free to run Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, HDB, Leftovers, whatever, and still only be outsped by two Pokemon unboosted. This is a significant difference between the two that shouldn't be glossed over. I'm not trying to downplay Valiant or say that it can't also end up banworthy, but it's 100% not the case that Valiant is better and more banworthy.

"Expansive movepool" in what way? Its 5th best attacking move is Thunder

Dark Pulse/Sludge Bomb/Tera Blast Fairy is enough to hit the entire tier neutrally and most of it super effectively. If you like though, you can also run Ice Beam, Focus Blast, or Psychic. Also, it is extremely reductive to focus only on attacking moves when Darkrai also learns Trick, Will-o-Wisp, Thunder Wave, and Hex.

 

[ianlazerbeem]

Dark Pulse/Sludge Bomb/Tera Blast Fairy is enough to hit the entire tier neutrally and most of it super effectively. If you like though, you can also run Ice Beam, Focus Blast, or Psychic. Also, it is extremely reductive to focus only on attacking moves when Darkrai also learns Trick, Will-o-Wisp, Thunder Wave, and Hex.

That does require Tera however which is not ideal, and I forgot Psychic so Thunder is #6 my bad

why on earth would you run wisp or TWave hex on Darkrai when Dragapult exists

 

[gregdawiz]

Gliscor, Roaring Moon, Volcarona, and Darkrai will be unbanned from SV OU with the Indigo Disk DLC:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...-from-sv-ou-with-the-indigo-disk-dlc.3732524/

This vote's a little crazy. Sneasler would have more answers in OU than Volcarona has lol. Might not matter much since id see both getting banned again anyways but its just a little strange to not see that guy back since he was never as scary as RM when that was around either. I'm at least glad this is a small list. Finch saying this was going to be a partial reset really had me fearing wed be unbanning like 13 mons + shed tail.

 

[Return to Zero]

That does require Tera however which is not ideal, and I forgot Psychic so Thunder is #6 my bad

why on earth would you run wisp or TWave hex on Darkrai when Dragapult exists

So you can run both and have one as an all-out attacker and the other running Speed/Attack control status. Ghost and Dark almost completely compliment each other's weaknesses, only missing that Ghost does not resist Fairy, so pivoting between the two and their collective three immunities is an option. Darkrai only gets outsped by Zamazenta and other Dragapult so you need one of those two to or priority to go first. Dragapult and Darkrai both have enough natural bulk to eat one decent neutral hit before going to OHKO range.

Or you can do it as a lure, having the opponent expect an offensive set and ending up with their defensive check to it getting status. 130 BP Hex coming off of Darkrai's Sp.A is going to chunk a lot of things. Even if it doesn't KO, burning a switch-in Zamazenta would be great progress.

I don't even think these are like, the most optimal things Darkrai can be doing at any given moment. These are just things it can do. Options it has that 100% can work. Darkrai's really damn flexible.

 

[ianlazerbeem]

So you can run both and have one as an all-out attacker and the other running Speed/Attack control status. Ghost and Dark almost completely compliment each other's weaknesses, only missing that Ghost does not resist Fairy, so pivoting between the two and their collective three immunities is an option. Darkrai only gets outsped by Zamazenta and other Dragapult so you need one of those two to or priority to go first. Dragapult and Darkrai both have enough natural bulk to eat one decent neutral hit before going to OHKO range.

Or you can do it as a lure, having the opponent expect an offensive set and ending up with their defensive check to it getting status. 130 BP Hex coming off of Darkrai's Sp.A is going to chunk a lot of things. Even if it doesn't KO, burning a switch-in Zamazenta would be great progress.

I don't even think these are like, the most optimal things Darkrai can be doing at any given moment. These are just things it can do. Options it has that 100% can work. Darkrai's really damn flexible.

I follow. That sounds cool and interesting, I didn't think about how versatile it could be

 

[tommytt22]

So you can run both and have one as an all-out attacker and the other running Speed/Attack control status. Ghost and Dark almost completely compliment each other's weaknesses, only missing that Ghost does not resist Fairy, so pivoting between the two and their collective three immunities is an option. Darkrai only gets outsped by Zamazenta and other Dragapult so you need one of those two to or priority to go first. Dragapult and Darkrai both have enough natural bulk to eat one decent neutral hit before going to OHKO range.

Or you can do it as a lure, having the opponent expect an offensive set and ending up with their defensive check to it getting status. 130 BP Hex coming off of Darkrai's Sp.A is going to chunk a lot of things. Even if it doesn't KO, burning a switch-in Zamazenta would be great progress.

I don't even think these are like, the most optimal things Darkrai can be doing at any given moment. These are just things it can do. Options it has that 100% can work. Darkrai's really damn flexible.

Legendaries are crazy good vs OU mons because they have so many options. Darkrai may not have as many options as say, solgaleo... but it's got a lot, as good or bigger toolkit than the best OU mons have to offer. I think it'll define OU if it stays. Booster pokemon will start running scarf because if they switch out once, darkrai flips the matchup and beats them. 125 speed is still so damn fast

 

[SDK03]

- Happy to see it back in OU. I know, people don’t like spike machines in Gen 9 OU, but this time around it should be easier to manage with Serperior, Suicune, Reuniclus, the Lati twins and other various mons coming around to check it better.

- Also happy to see this guy back, although I understand people being worried about it getting out of hand with Tera. Should be fine until a lot of the other brokens are cleared out, but happy we have another Valiant/Kingambit/Gholdengo check in the meantime.

- Don’t feel much regarding this one, but I don’t think much of the changes in the meta so far are really gonna stop it from running away with matches the way it used to before its ban. Still the same mon as before.

- Even if it doesn’t turn out to be that much of a problem, I still don’t see what it adds to the tier when we’ve already got a powerful fast Special Attacker that can do a bunch of different sets (Valiant) and strong Dark-type attackers (Kingambit, Samurott-Hisui, Weavile if it gets Triple Axel back, Roaring Moon which is also back). Seems like another potential problem we’re piling onto the tier that will take up time we could spend on other obvious candidates for suspects already in the tier (the aforementioned Kingambit, Gholdengo, etc.).

 

[Cuddly]

Valiant's Speed being tied to Booster Energy hurts a lot since if it ever has to come in more than once it goes from outspeeding the whole tier to outspeeding maybe two-thirds of it at most. Red Card popped up a bit for a reason. In contrast, Darkrai is free to run Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, HDB, Leftovers, whatever, and still only be outsped by two Pokemon unboosted. This is a significant difference between the two that shouldn't be glossed over. I'm not trying to downplay Valiant or say that it can't also end up banworthy, but it's 100% not the case that Valiant is better and more banworthy.

Dark Pulse/Sludge Bomb/Tera Blast Fairy is enough to hit the entire tier neutrally and most of it super effectively. If you like though, you can also run Ice Beam, Focus Blast, or Psychic. Also, it is extremely reductive to focus only on attacking moves when Darkrai also learns Trick, Will-o-Wisp, Thunder Wave, and Hex.

It TECHNICALLY is worse, yes, but Iron Valiant is still speedy on its own, and Booster Energy is the norm on it for a reason. You get a Choice Scarf boost without the drawback of having your moves be locked in like Choice Scarf, which is a huge deal. Send it out, and bam, you even the likes of Dragapult by a few miles. You're outspeeding +1 Garchomp, Scarf Enamorus, neutral nature +1 Greninja, and +1 Iron Moth. For Darkrai to do the same and more, it needs to run Choice Scarf, which has the restriction of locking you into a certain move. And while Booster Energy has the drawback of 1 time use and is screwed by Sticky Webs, you can make more out of that +1 speed by being able to switch moves and can easily let you sweep.
And honestly, in terms of pure speed, you only naturally outspeed 3 extra Pokemon naturally and with +1 Speed you only outspeed positive nature battle bond Greninja. You do speed tie neutral nature Dragapult too, but that might only help once in a blue moon.
This might change with the DLC depending on what Pokemon are reintroduced and if Torn-T gets something nice to be back in OU.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

It is weird that Game Freak for some reason chose to remove Thunderbolt from Darkrai's TM learnset, something it had since its introduction, but it can still learn Thunder. It's like Reuniclus all over again, except Reuniclus never knew Thunderbolt

 

[taziathegreat]

God please no, although I didn't want Darkrai to be unbanned, I'm still happy. Again, we would of had crown tundra 2: electric boogaloo.

I'm glad the council (mostly) was right in the foresight that stuff was going to get crazy, so we should limit the drops. Will be interesting to see if anything changes for Volcarona, it's been away from OU for 2 metagames, so it will either be balanced (maybe even undertuned? IDK, probs not) or still overpowered. Also, now we have the morning sun pokemon unbanned from OU so Solgeleo stans can shut up.

It’s mainly just a difference in philosophy, but I don’t see being conservative worth our while if at the end of the day we want to get to some kind of Tera suspect as quickly as possible.

also factoring in the 8 currently know coming new Pokémon and the known transfers I think quite a few of the currently banned Pokémon are going to be forced to play differently

 

[skippergamez]

Thank god that the council actually knows what they are doing and didn't unban sneasler. The council is the entirety of the actually qualified playerbase.

Lily and Star being the exceptions

Don’t go after Lily and Star like that LMAO.

Lily was very upfront about where she was voting, DNBing most things, so I think we should reward that instead, no? As for Star they did unban vote more than not. I can’t say I agree with these two on them wanting to unban Sneasler, but I can understand there potential rationale.

Also, differing opinions is a good thing. People would complain all day (they tend to do so, especially on this thread) if someone just controlled the tier by themselves. Then they complain when council members vote differently than what they want.

 

[Gohankuten]

So now that Gliscor is going to be unbanned we must push Lando-T into UU as was fated. Also Ban the Cheeseman to help make hazard stack more manageable. Still kinda mad we went for Gliscor first over Cheeseman and thus we weren't able to push Lando-T into UU.

 

[Pando067]

If youre having to use a specific and otherwise bad pokemon to check something, that's a pretty clear indicator of how restrictive and unhealthy that pokemon is. Gliscor also runs ice Fang occasionally so this isn't even a hard counter.

gliscor ice fang is doing negative damage so idk bro
0 Atk Gliscor Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Altaria: 148-176 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

also gliscor is just jesus cuz he got killed (banned) for our (gholdengo's) sins. Ghold should've gone before gliscor, but hey at least it's back :P

 

[No.1 Valiant Fan]

Been having a lot of fun getting back into the tier lately and im very excited for the coming days. The drops that are confirmed are excellent and im looking forward to using roaring moon and darkrai in particular. The tier is in a much better place than when i was playing back in april and i thank the community for the bans that have been made. Im sure we will be busy going forward, but hopefully we have a good time atleast.

 

[Pando067]

Legendaries are crazy good vs OU mons because they have so many options. Darkrai may not have as many options as say, solgaleo... but it's got a lot, as good or bigger toolkit than the best OU mons have to offer. I think it'll define OU if it stays. Booster pokemon will start running scarf because if they switch out once, darkrai flips the matchup and beats them. 125 speed is still so damn fast

Thing is tho, darkai's flexibility and toolkit is not as expansive as matchup moth volc because of volc's signature move tera blast, also mons like valiant and co have a movepool way deeper than darkai so I personally think it's gonna be straight up trash. Darkai has severe 4mss cuz it wants stab dark pulse, sludge bomb for fairies, thunderbolt and ice beam cuz gud coverage, psychic for fighting types, nasty plot to boost, etc. I don't really see how it will be very good in OU, but we will have to wait and see.

 

[Just A Shroom God]

Been having a lot of fun getting back into the tier lately and im very excited for the coming days. The drops that are confirmed are excellent and im looking forward to using roaring moon and darkrai in particular. The tier is in a much better place than when i was playing back in april and i thank the community for the bans that have been made. Im sure we will be busy going forward, but hopefully we have a good time atleast.

with a name like "no.1 valiant fan" chances are you're going to have a very good time in the darkrai meta with it being one of 3 pokemon that can outspeed and oneshot it. Factoring out tera of course.

 

[Carolusim]

Next drop to OU has to be genesect...

 

[Magcargo]

I wish there were more additions but the mons that dropped are reasonable enough. Gliscor and Volcarona should be very healthy additions to give balance teams more of a fighting chance in the metagame I think as opposed to bulky offense. I don't think they will immediately be massive issues but might put the metagame in a chokehold later on. Darkrai is a complete wild card to me. It will be strong for sure, but whether its reasonable to deal with remains to be seen. If nothing else, Choice Scarf Darkrai will be a strong revenge killer for some dangerous offensive threats and boots will be decent as well most likely, with a fast wisp to cripple the likes of Gambit, and acting as an additional Ghost resist. The Pokemon I have the most doubts about being healthy is Roaring Moon, as Garg usage is likely to decline sharply with Gliscfable coming back to the forefront. Nonetheless, there were several doubts of its inital ban so I suppose its worth another shot.

These bans are impactful, shaking up the tier a great deal on their own & enhancing multiple playstyles, but likely not to the point where anything feels egrigious. Stall loves Gliscor, Balance loves Glisc and Volcarona (and Darkrai too imo), and HO loves Roaring Moon & Darkrai. I'm not sure if these new threats are good or bad for bulky offense, but I'd say most structures will appreciate Volcarona or Gliscor in the builder. That being said, it will be interesting to see how these drops will affect the tier on top of the DLC2 drops. Multiple legendaries & meta relevant mons like Skarm and Serperior coming back, so it will be interesting to see how the tier deals with it all.

 

[Cuddly]

btw the difference between Iron Valiant and Darkrai's speeds
Natural Positive nature:

383		Dragapult	142	31	252	Neutral	0
381		Ribombee	124	31	252	Positive	0
379		Meowscarada	123	31	252	Positive	0
377		Greninja	122	31	252	Positive	0
376		Pelipper	65	31	252	Positive	1
375		Zamazenta	138	31	252	Neutral	0
375		Tornadus-T	121	31	252	Positive	0
371		Barraskewda	136	31	252	Neutral	0
370		Cinderace	119	31	252	Positive	0

+1 Positive nature:

574		Dragapult	142	31	252	Neutral	1
571		Ribombee	124	31	252	Positive	1
568		Meowscarada	123	31	252	Positive	1
568		Dragonite	80	31	252	Positive	2
565		Greninja	122	31	252	Positive	1
562		Zamazenta	138	31	252	Neutral	1
560		Basculegion	78	31	252	Positive	2
558		Revavroom, Moltres-G	90	31	252	Neutral	2
555		Cinderace	119	31	252	Positive	1

What this tells me Darkrai's extra speed can outspeed Rimbombee to taunt it or use Sludge Bomb, can outspeed Cinderace/Greninja to attack them on same boosts, can possibly outspeed Adamanant Zamazenta on same boosts to finish off a heavily weaken'd Zamazenta, and of course you also outspeed Iron Valiant with same boosts instead of speed tying it.

Dragonite at +2 is only relevant if Darkrai uses tera to resist or be immune to Extreme Speed, or if Darkrai has Psychic Terrain Support. It is otherwise OHKO'd cleanly by +2 Adamant Extreme Speed and only needs to be chipped to be KO'd by regular E-speed.
+2 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 214-252 (76.1 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes
+2 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 321-378 (114.2 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You also don't KO Dragonite from full health, even with Ice Beam, so it's not really relevant.
252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 204-240 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Dragapult with neutral nature will speed tie you, but Dragapult is like 68% using a positive nature, so more often Darkrai will be outsped. Even if you do go face to face vs like Dragon Dance Dragapult, the thing becomes a 50/50 as Dragapult can OHKO Darkrai with +1 Dragon Darts. If neither player has used their Tera, Dragapult is as the advantage as it can survive Darkrai's Ice Beams as Tera Dragon and Sludge Bombs as Tera Fairy.

Everything else is not OU, so its hardly relevant too. By definition, you'll rarely see Meowscarada, Pelipper (much less Scarf Pelipper), Torn-T (unless it gets buffed), Basculegion, and Barraskewda (which outspeeds both in rain anyways).

The speed difference between Darkrai and Iron Valiant is only marginally helpful for Darkrai. You only get to guarantee yourself outspeeding 4 OU Pokemon, 1 of which is kind of a gamble with guessing what move it uses and what item it may have and only if you have 2 specific moves and the other is Iron Valiant itself (who runs Booster Energy like 64% of the time, so you can only do so with Scarf). And then 2 Pokemon you can outspeed or speed tie if they are running neutral nature.
The speed can come in handy, but while also not being the offensive powerhouse that is Iron Valiant. Thing is Darkrai was really scary back in the day because with Nasty Plot it could outspeed most teams and sweep with rarely anything being able to outspeed it. Iron Valiant with Sword Dance or Calm Mind will have similar power while also being at +1 when its first sent out assuming webs are not up (which case not like Darkrai likes Webs either). And people already adapted to Iron Valiant even before Sticky Webs were popular. Because of that, I don't Darkrai is gonna be a problem. It's Iron Valiant but worse in most categories and only slightly better in other 2 categories.

 

[Return to Zero]

It TECHNICALLY is worse, yes, but Iron Valiant is still speedy on its own, and Booster Energy is the norm on it for a reason. You get a Choice Scarf boost without the drawback of having your moves be locked in like Choice Scarf, which is a huge deal. Send it out, and bam, you even the likes of Dragapult by a few miles. You're outspeeding +1 Garchomp, Scarf Enamorus, neutral nature +1 Greninja, and +1 Iron Moth. For Darkrai to do the same and more, it needs to run Choice Scarf, which has the restriction of locking you into a certain move. And while Booster Energy has the drawback of 1 time use and is screwed by Sticky Webs, you can make more out of that +1 speed by being able to switch moves and can easily let you sweep.
And honestly, in terms of pure speed, you only naturally outspeed 3 extra Pokemon naturally and with +1 Speed you only outspeed positive nature battle bond Greninja. You do speed tie neutral nature Dragapult too, but that might only help once in a blue moon.
This might change with the DLC depending on what Pokemon are reintroduced and if Torn-T gets something nice to be back in OU.

btw the difference between Iron Valiant and Darkrai's speeds
Natural Positive nature:

383		Dragapult	142	31	252	Neutral	0
381		Ribombee	124	31	252	Positive	0
379		Meowscarada	123	31	252	Positive	0
377		Greninja	122	31	252	Positive	0
376		Pelipper	65	31	252	Positive	1
375		Zamazenta	138	31	252	Neutral	0
375		Tornadus-T	121	31	252	Positive	0
371		Barraskewda	136	31	252	Neutral	0
370		Cinderace	119	31	252	Positive	0

+1 Positive nature:

574		Dragapult	142	31	252	Neutral	1
571		Ribombee	124	31	252	Positive	1
568		Meowscarada	123	31	252	Positive	1
568		Dragonite	80	31	252	Positive	2
565		Greninja	122	31	252	Positive	1
562		Zamazenta	138	31	252	Neutral	1
560		Basculegion	78	31	252	Positive	2
558		Revavroom, Moltres-G	90	31	252	Neutral	2
555		Cinderace	119	31	252	Positive	1

What this tells me Darkrai's extra speed can outspeed Rimbombee to taunt it or use Sludge Bomb, can outspeed Cinderace/Greninja to attack them on same boosts, can possibly outspeed Adamanant Zamazenta on same boosts to finish off a heavily weaken'd Zamazenta, and of course you also outspeed Iron Valiant with same boosts instead of speed tying it.

Dragonite at +2 is only relevant if Darkrai uses tera to resist or be immune to Extreme Speed, or if Darkrai has Psychic Terrain Support. It is otherwise OHKO'd cleanly by +2 Adamant Extreme Speed and only needs to be chipped to be KO'd by regular E-speed.
+2 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 214-252 (76.1 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes
+2 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 321-378 (114.2 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You also don't KO Dragonite from full health, even with Ice Beam, so it's not really relevant.
252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 204-240 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Dragapult with neutral nature will speed tie you, but Dragapult is like 68% using a positive nature, so more often Darkrai will be outsped. Even if you do go face to face vs like Dragon Dance Dragapult, the thing becomes a 50/50 as Dragapult can OHKO Darkrai with +1 Dragon Darts. If neither player has used their Tera, Dragapult is as the advantage as it can survive Darkrai's Ice Beams as Tera Dragon and Sludge Bombs as Tera Fairy.

Everything else is not OU, so its hardly relevant too. By definition, you'll rarely see Meowscarada, Pelipper (much less Scarf Pelipper), Torn-T (unless it gets buffed), Basculegion, and Barraskewda (which outspeeds both in rain anyways).

The speed difference between Darkrai and Iron Valiant is only marginally helpful for Darkrai. You only get to guarantee yourself outspeeding 4 OU Pokemon, 1 of which is kind of a gamble with guessing what move it uses and what item it may have and only if you have 2 specific moves and the other is Iron Valiant itself (who runs Booster Energy like 64% of the time, so you can only do so with Scarf). And then 2 Pokemon you can outspeed or speed tie if they are running neutral nature.
The speed can come in handy, but while also not being the offensive powerhouse that is Iron Valiant. Thing is Darkrai was really scary back in the day because with Nasty Plot it could outspeed most teams and sweep with rarely anything being able to outspeed it. Iron Valiant with Sword Dance or Calm Mind will have similar power while also being at +1 when its first sent out assuming webs are not up (which case not like Darkrai likes Webs either). And people already adapted to Iron Valiant even before Sticky Webs were popular. Because of that, I don't Darkrai is gonna be a problem. It's Iron Valiant but worse in most categories and only slightly better in other 2 categories.

I don't mean to say that Booster Energy is a bad thing or that the reward for it isn't totally worth it. It is a fact, though, that Valiant is something you have to be very careful about when you switch it in, because if you mistime it and the opponent can switch in a wall or keep their Tera in reserve to take a hit, Valiant's lost a ton of power. Choice Scarf Darkrai, while being locked into one move, loses nothing if it has to switch out and can just keep coming back in whenever it's safe to do. Valiant can't. That's why, even if you quote Speed numbers about who beats who more consistently or how much of a tangible difference is made, it has to be followed by a giant asterisk clarifying that Darkrai has to do way less work for its Speed stat and can be way less committal coming in. Either Darkrai only gets outsped by 2 unboosted things and 4 with boosts while having its item slot free, or it outspeeds everything including Valiant with a Choice Scarf. That's a ton fo flexibility that you are seriously underestimating.

 

[tommytt22]

btw the difference between Iron Valiant and Darkrai's speeds
Natural Positive nature:

383		Dragapult	142	31	252	Neutral	0
381		Ribombee	124	31	252	Positive	0
379		Meowscarada	123	31	252	Positive	0
377		Greninja	122	31	252	Positive	0
376		Pelipper	65	31	252	Positive	1
375		Zamazenta	138	31	252	Neutral	0
375		Tornadus-T	121	31	252	Positive	0
371		Barraskewda	136	31	252	Neutral	0
370		Cinderace	119	31	252	Positive	0

+1 Positive nature:

574		Dragapult	142	31	252	Neutral	1
571		Ribombee	124	31	252	Positive	1
568		Meowscarada	123	31	252	Positive	1
568		Dragonite	80	31	252	Positive	2
565		Greninja	122	31	252	Positive	1
562		Zamazenta	138	31	252	Neutral	1
560		Basculegion	78	31	252	Positive	2
558		Revavroom, Moltres-G	90	31	252	Neutral	2
555		Cinderace	119	31	252	Positive	1

What this tells me Darkrai's extra speed can outspeed Rimbombee to taunt it or use Sludge Bomb, can outspeed Cinderace/Greninja to attack them on same boosts, can possibly outspeed Adamanant Zamazenta on same boosts to finish off a heavily weaken'd Zamazenta, and of course you also outspeed Iron Valiant with same boosts instead of speed tying it.

Dragonite at +2 is only relevant if Darkrai uses tera to resist or be immune to Extreme Speed, or if Darkrai has Psychic Terrain Support. It is otherwise OHKO'd cleanly by +2 Adamant Extreme Speed and only needs to be chipped to be KO'd by regular E-speed.
+2 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 214-252 (76.1 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes
+2 252+ Atk Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 321-378 (114.2 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You also don't KO Dragonite from full health, even with Ice Beam, so it's not really relevant.
252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 204-240 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Dragapult with neutral nature will speed tie you, but Dragapult is like 68% using a positive nature, so more often Darkrai will be outsped. Even if you do go face to face vs like Dragon Dance Dragapult, the thing becomes a 50/50 as Dragapult can OHKO Darkrai with +1 Dragon Darts. If neither player has used their Tera, Dragapult is as the advantage as it can survive Darkrai's Ice Beams as Tera Dragon and Sludge Bombs as Tera Fairy.

Everything else is not OU, so its hardly relevant too. By definition, you'll rarely see Meowscarada, Pelipper (much less Scarf Pelipper), Torn-T (unless it gets buffed), Basculegion, and Barraskewda (which outspeeds both in rain anyways).

The speed difference between Darkrai and Iron Valiant is only marginally helpful for Darkrai. You only get to guarantee yourself outspeeding 4 OU Pokemon, 1 of which is kind of a gamble with guessing what move it uses and what item it may have and only if you have 2 specific moves and the other is Iron Valiant itself (who runs Booster Energy like 64% of the time, so you can only do so with Scarf). And then 2 Pokemon you can outspeed or speed tie if they are running neutral nature.
The speed can come in handy, but while also not being the offensive powerhouse that is Iron Valiant. Thing is Darkrai was really scary back in the day because with Nasty Plot it could outspeed most teams and sweep with rarely anything being able to outspeed it. Iron Valiant with Sword Dance or Calm Mind will have similar power while also being at +1 when its first sent out assuming webs are not up (which case not like Darkrai likes Webs either). And people already adapted to Iron Valiant even before Sticky Webs were popular. Because of that, I don't Darkrai is gonna be a problem. It's Iron Valiant but worse in most categories and only slightly better in other 2 categories.

there was a lot of talk about synergy with darkai and amoongus like 50 pages ago. here is yet another reason, it forces valiant out and loses its booster. remember there are 6 members on a team. Sneasler probably wouldnt be broken without rillaboom but no one points the finger at the green guy. Its going to be very easy to build around darkrai. physdef glowking and amoongus cover a lot of his weaknesses and theyre a decent core in their own right.

 

[Heatranator]

there was a lot of talk about synergy with darkai and amoongus like 50 pages ago. here is yet another reason, it forces valiant out and loses its booster. remember there are 6 members on a team. Sneasler probably wouldnt be broken without rillaboom but no one points the finger at the green guy. Its going to be very easy to build around darkrai. physdef glowking and amoongus cover a lot of his weaknesses and theyre a decent core in their own right.

I think I did talk about how the combination of darkrai + amoonguss + wish support would be very good. The fairy and fighting types that threaten darkrai are walled by amoonguss. Conversly, the psychic moves that threaten amoonguss, darkrai is immune to. With spore, darkrai can reliably activate bad dreams and chip its counters. Wish support is to keep darkrai healthy and the main wish mon, alomomola, resists fire moves that threaten amoonguss.
Also, maybe dream eater may have some competitive use due to darkrai wanting pokemon to always be asleep. If nightmare was in the game, that would be 37.5% per turn with bad dreams + nightmare chip. It would take 4 turns to ko a full health pokemon. Yikes

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

i realized i never got around to sharing my actual thoughts on the drops:
- whether it stays in the tier is likely dependent on the gholdengo situation and how many viable ice-types we end up with. (this dlc we happened to have exactly two, one of which was broken as all fuck and the other of which turned out to not actually be that good.) weavile is likely to get triple axel, which is going to make life much harder for this guy, not to mention the maybe three days or so that atales/kyurem is gonna break the tier. all in all, i think gliscor is the most likely thing to stay. and this time we can test ghold first, since we have the benefit of knowing what happens when we do it the other way round
- still has a bonkers matchup spread, and booster acrobatics is likely still going to be ridiculous, but i still think giving it another chance at least has some merit—there were definitely other, bigger problems in the tier at the time it was tested
- matchup moth being able to change its matchups mid-game still doesn't sound appealing to me, but it's been long enough and the initial ban was abrupt enough that, you know what, why not try it again. who knows? maybe in a climate with some more of its traditional checks, it could be tolerable. unless, of course, it gets scorching sands
- the two upsides to this being ou are: 1.) i won't have to hear anything about it for another 4 gens after the ban, and 2.) someone is gonna put out a "darkrai supporters turning pro-ban" compilation and at least that'll be fun to watch

kinda neat that all 3 of the mons i voted above a 1 on the survey dropped, and that nothing else did besides darkrai. maybe i was onto something

 

[Cuddly]

there was a lot of talk about synergy with darkai and amoongus like 50 pages ago. here is yet another reason, it forces valiant out and loses its booster. remember there are 6 members on a team. Sneasler probably wouldnt be broken without rillaboom but no one points the finger at the green guy. Its going to be very easy to build around darkrai. physdef glowking and amoongus cover a lot of his weaknesses and theyre a decent core in their own right.

The difference be that Sneasler was already stupid before Rillaboom because Dire Claw is a really dumb move, and that once Sneasler got an Unburden boost from Grassy Seed being used, it almost always won games. Grassy Terrain is an auto field condition. With Amoongus, you have to use Spore and you get like some passive damage on one Pokemon.

 

[Karxrida]

Next drop to OU has to be genesect...

I mean. Unironically? Assuming it doesn't keep Extreme Speed or Rock Polish/Gear Shift. Genesect absolutely needs access to those to stay relevant in a Spikes-infested meta.

Or we somehow fix the hazard problem so it can spam Scarf U-turns. Then yeah, screw that.