Suicune (Skeleton)

sandman

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Suicune
[OVERVIEW]
- Sporting great bulk with decent Speed and Special Attack, Suicune can be a versatile supporter.
- Mono Water typing gives it only two weaknesses further complimenting its good bulk and making it hard to KO.
- Its average attack and can make it easy to wall, except when it carries Sheer Cold.
- Overall good stats and Pokemon.

[SET]
name: Tailwind
move 1: Tailwind
move 2: Scald / Hydro Pump
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Protect / Calm Mind
item: Wacan Berry / Life Orb
nature: Modest
evs: 116 Hp / 252 SAtk / 140 Spd

[SET COMMENTS]
- Suicune can use Tailwind and usually has no trouble getting it up because of its bulk.
- With Life Orb, Suicune's Hydro Pump hits hard and can KO Tyranitar in neutral weather.
- Scald chance of burn is incredibly helpful.
- After wards, Suicune can use Icy Wind to lower opposing Tailwind teams speed.
- Calm Mind up when you have the chance to make Suicune to raise suicunes Special Attack and Defense.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- Ev spread allows Suicune to out speed Modest Ludicolo and Scarf Thundurus in Tailwind. The rest are put into Special Attack then Hp.
- As with the previous set, Terrakion and Tyranitar make good teammates dealing heavy damage to Zapdos and most other Electric-types who threaten to 2HKO suicune.
- By summoning up hail abomasnow can cancel opposing weather and threatening Thundurus and Zapdos.

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Scald
move 3: Icy Wind
move 4: Rest
item: Chesto Berry
nature: Bold
evs: 252 Hp / 140 Def / 116 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- Suicune is one of the better Calm Minders because of its good bulk, decent Speed, Special Attack, and great Stab.
- Set aims to attempt a sweep while also supporting the team with Icy Wind Speed drops and the occasional burn from Scald.
- Once it accumulates enough Calm Minds, usually only a crit can bring down Suicune.
- Pressure further helps out the set by stalling out low PP moves.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- EVs allow it to out speed max speed Thundurus after an Icy Wind and the rest are put into Hp then Defense.
- Sleep Talk will allow Suicune to continue attacking while asleep, but Rest plus Chest Berry is usually sufficient enough, Mono water will make it vulnerable to Storm Drain and Water Absorb users, and Icy Wind is extremely helpful anyways.
- Hitmontop is an excellent partner with Intimidate and Fake Out being excellent assets to Suicune stating up.
- A Rage Powder or Follow Me is usually helpful giving Suicune more turns to set up.
- With Zapdos being extremely common, Pokemon such as Abomasnow, Tyranitar, and other Pokemon that can dispatch of Zapdos are helpful.
- Pokemon like Garchomp and Rotom who can out speed most Pokemon after an Icy Wind from Suicune may opt to go with bulkier spreads.
- A Pokemon with Psych Up can take advantage of the all the Calm Minds Suicune accumulates.

[SET]
name: Crowncune
move 1: Sheer Cold
move 2: Rest
move 3: Sleep Talk
move 4: Scald
item: Leftovers / Wacan Berry
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 Hp / 196 Def / 60 SDef

[SET COMMENTS]
- Suicune is probably one if not the best Sheer Cold users because of its stats and Mono Water typing.
- With Rest and Sleep Talk, Suicune is incredibly hard to take down and has plenty of chances to get lucky with Sheer Cold.
- Pokemon it couldn't normally deal with such as Ludicolo, Ferrothron, and Chansey now have roughly a 1/3 of a chance to be 1HKOed.
- Scald occasional burn is helpful and can score some 2HKOs/KOs on certain pokemon.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- Ev spread gives good overall bulk taking about 40% max damage from Close Combat from a Jolly Terrakion while also surviving 2 Discharges from a Max Special Attack Zapdos almost every time after Leftovers.
- As with the previous set, Terrakion and Tyranitar make good teammates dealing heavy damage to zapdos and most other Electric-types who threaten to 2HKO suicune.


[OTHER OPTIONS]
- Extreme Speed can be useful for picking off weakened Pokemon.
- With max Hp, Mirror Coat will pretty much KO anything that does over 40% to Suiucne
- If your running Hail, Blizzard gives Suicune a powerful field attack.
- Quash is an interesting move but Suicune's average speed probably doesn't make it the best user.
- Roar can phaze out Pokemon trying set up TR or stat up.
- Reflect is a great support move.

[COUNTERS]
- Bulky grass types like Abomasnow, Ludicolo and Ferrothorn wall suicune all day, can hit it hard with their Grass STABs or use Leech Seed to pressure Suicune to switch out, or give up a tenth of its health each turn.
- Gastrodon has no problem with Icy Wind and Storm Drain makes it immune to Scald along with other water Absorb and Storm Drain users, but most of them can't harm Suicune once it starts to Calm Mind.
- Zapdos, Thundurus, and other Electric-types threaten to 2HKO Suicune.
- Ninetails is annoying summoning eternal Sunlight activating Chlorophyll and weakening Suicunes STAB.
- Most specially defensive Pokemon can stay in against Suicune's Modest Special Attack.
- Anything with Taunt can prevent Suicune from using Calm Mind or any of its supporting moves.
- Be wary of Trick users as being locked into a move will limit Suicune's usability.

[DREAM WORLD]
Suicune has a lot to look forward to because of its Dream World ability Water Absorb and the unreleased Snarl. Snarl is a great move lowering both opponents Special Attack, Suicune is already hard enough to take down without both of your opponents’ Special Attack being lowered every turn. Water Absorb giving it an immunity and restoring 25% of its heath each time its hit by Surf or any Water-type attack will make the Calm Mind set even harder to take down. Unfortunately, Water Absorb variants will not have access to 4th gen move tutors and TMs, most notable being Icy Wind and Sheer Cold.
 

breh

強いだね
ahahaha

I got a kick out of this

make sure to remember calm mind and tailwind. also, when doing a CM set, mention psych up to be used with it. Suicune can accrue a very large amount of CMs very quickly and physically bulky things can take them and abuse them with ease.
 

cosmicexplorer

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Psych Up is pretty niche; while it's usable, the main reason you'd want to use CM is to make Suicune just about untouchable outside of crits, taking advantage of Suicune's huge natural bulk. While Psych Up can work well with a partner, it requires Suicune to have accrued a significant number of boosts to be effective, making it difficult to set up. I wouldn't mention it very prominently.
 

Solace

royal flush
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tailwind suicune is actually pretty cool and useful because of decent bulk and a bit of surprise it can catch an opponent off guard
 

Alaka

formerly Alakapimp
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Honestly, I think Restalk Sheer Cold might should be its own set. Any opinions?

Tailwind support could probably have its own set too.
 

sandman

Bum bum bum bum
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I wasn't sure about making a Sheer Cold set but i'm glad you both want it because I really wanted to. Will update later.
 

muffinhead

b202 wifi vgc
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slash hydro pump before / after scald on the tailwind set. modest with a wacan berry is probably the superior item choice here, with a life orb slashed in. tailwind pokemon are looking to KO as quickly as possible, not cripple with a burn.

will check after changes, really nice job :D
 
On the tailwind set why is roar even a slash in. Tailwind teams are usually fast pace, and i don't see how roar will be useful in anway, especially in doubles. Sure it can stop trickroom although many tr teams run rage powder/follow me support, or fake out. Its just too situational.
 

muffinhead

b202 wifi vgc
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roar is a good way to deal with trick room. for example, if a sample team is musharna + rhyperior vs terrakion + suicune, the ryperior will protect while the musharna uses trick room. roar will go before trick room, and mental herb can't stop roar.
 

cosmicexplorer

pewpewpew
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To corroborate that, since Suicune is generally thought of as a bulky defensive Pokemon without much power, it usually won't be the target of any Fake Out intended to allow Trick Room to go up. Suicune can take advantage of this with Roar and stop TR from being set up.
 

sandman

Bum bum bum bum
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Gravity's effect is actually lowering the evasion of all pokemon on the field by two stages so it doesn't effect the accuracy but I haven't heard of the 1HKO moves ignoring it.

EDIT: oh I'll remove it.

On the Modest and Life Orb it seems like its turning into a different set so I mentioned in AD to invest more in SA if running Modest/Life Orb since its better then 252 HP/Def for Modest.
 

Alaka

formerly Alakapimp
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Why is Hydro Pump before Scald? Are there specific kos it gets? I don't think that Calm Mind is worth slashing on tailwind, and I'm not sure on Icy Wind either.

Is there any particular reason behind the ev spreads? Suicune is fast enough that running enough speed on the Tailwind set to outspeed some stuff would make sense, if not max speed.

I think the order of the sets should be reversed, Calm Mind is not as effective as Tailwind.

EDIT: 136 evs still Bold is 90% as bulky physically, the same specially, and outspeeds Modest Ludicolo, +1 modest Yanmega, Scarf adamant Darmanitan, and Scarf timid Chandelure. 236 evs gets over Timid Ludicolo and Jolly Scarf Terrakion is and 83% as bulky physically.
 

sandman

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is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
The set was put up too hastily, I've been meaning to test more ev spreads and come up with a more straight forward one since bold/modest seemed really awkward too. Hydro Pump was there for more power on Moof's request. Icy Wind is helpful against other TW teams and Ice Beam isn't that strong anyways. I like Calm Mind and Suicune usually has the time to after a Tail Wind. The original reason I didn't write a Tailwind set to start was because almost every TW suicune I encountered had Calm Mind so I was unsure if I was making two similar sets so I left TW in OO.

Idk I have been wandering if the 15 minute timer will affect it but I have had more success with the Calm Mind.
 

sandman

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Starting it, wasn't sure because of the Solaces 1/2 or if someone wanted to post again to give me the ok.
 

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