SM OU Still a noob, but 5-0 so far, 1441 elo, how can I improve the team?

[Fayari]

The Current Team:

________________________________________________________________________________________________________
​

I wanted to address some of the more pressing issues of my previous team. This is the current iteration of my team. Although I've made it quite a bit farther with them, I'm still inexperienced and there's always room for improvement. Please help me improve. Thank you.

Previous Team: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...-1205-elo-how-can-i-improve-the-team.3628097/

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Conkeldurr (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 Def / 248 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
- Mach Punch​

Conkeldurr is my current Lead, and my main Physical Sweeper. He replaced Kartana from the previous team. I realized that Kartana's main job on my previous team was to switch into a physical non-supereffective hit, then take out as many enemies as he could before going down. I decided "Why not just do that from the start?" and set about looking for a tankier Pokemon that could also hit harder and provide more coverage.

Conkeldurr is very slow, but he can take both Physical and Special attacks far better than Kartana could. Furthermore, Sheer Force + Life Orb + 252 Atk + Adamant makes Conkeldurr hit VERY hard, enough to OHKO a lot of common enemies like Landorus-T, Greninja-Ash, Ferrothorn, Tyranitar-Mega, Garchomp, etc.. Fire Punch deals with Bug, Grass, Ice, and Steel types. Thunder Punch deals with Flying and Water types. Ice Punch deals with Dragon, Grass, and Ground types, as well as Flying types who resist Thunder Punch. Mach Punch is mainly there in case Conkeldurr doesn't outright OHKO the enemy and needs to hit first on the next turn.

Fairy, Flying, and Psychic attacks utterly destroy Conkeldurr though, so that's where Ferrothorn comes in.

____________________________________________________

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic (Replace with Thunder Wave/Knock-Off?)​

Ferrothorn is still one of my Walls against most Pokemon because of his fantastic Grass Steel typing. Unlike in my previous team, I've forgone any semblance of attacking and dedicated Ferrothorn to completely annoying enemy Pokemon. Leech Seed + Leftovers + Protect keeps Ferrothorn very healthy. Stealth Rock is my Entry Hazard of choice to deal with Fire-type Sweepers like Heatran, Charizard, and Volcarona. I put Toxic in there after noticing just how many times I found myself wanting to switch to Toxapex but couldn't because of the threat of Ground, Electric, and Psychic attacks. I'm thinking of replacing Toxic with Thunder Wave to hit Steel and Poison types. I'm also considering putting Knock-Off back in to hit Psychic types for super-effective damage and to piss off enemy Pokemon who rely on their items to set up.

Fire and Fighting attacks demolish Ferrothorn, so Toxapex comes in against those.

____________________________________________________

Toxapex (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 120 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Haze
- Scald
- Recover​

Toxapex is still the tankiest, most annoying Pokemon I could find, and really hasn't changed much from my previous team. Water Poison is fantastic against a lot of attack types. The main changes are that I've been experimenting with her EVs, and I've exchanged Rocky Helmet for Black Sludge because I wanted her to remain healthier.

Recover + Toxic even without Rocky Helmet still means that most Pokemon basically kill themselves against Toxapex. Scald is for Fire, Ground, and Rock types, as well as for Steel and Poison types who can't be poisoned. Haze deals with enemy Pokemon who want to set up against Toxapex.

As long as I don't switch Toxapex into Electric, Ground, or Psychic attacks, I can alternate Toxapex with Ferrothorn to halve most attack types. Between the two of them, I can also get rid of Toxic Spikes completely, although those aren't as common.

____________________________________________________

Latias-Mega @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Roost
- Defog
​

Latias-Mega replaces Landorus-T from my previous team. Latias-Mega's main role is basically to safely tank a hit and Defog, though she functions as a decent Special Attacker due to her naturally high Sp Atk. Entry hazards were kicking my previous team's ass, so I really needed a Defog pokemon. Landorus-T can learn Defog too, but Latias-Mega is both tankier, and faster than Landorus-T, and her fantastic Dragon Psychic typing gives resistances against Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Fighting, and Psychic type attacks. Levitate means I can switch Latias-Mega into enemy Heatran and Landorus-T and not worry about losing health.

As for her other moves, I initially had Draco Meteor as one of them, but decided that Ice Beam could do the same job while providing better coverage and not lowering Latias-Mega's Sp Atk. Ice Beam deals with Dragon, Grass, Ground, and Flying types. Psychic deals with Fighting and Poison types. Roost is there so that Latias-Mega can recover HP after switching into a hit.

Compared to Landorus-T from my previous team, I lose some momentum due to not having a pivot move like U-Turn, but I feel like the trade-off was very worth it for what I needed on the team. Unfortunately, for all her strengths, Latias-Mega also has lots of weaknesses. Bug, Dark, Fairy, Dragon, Ice, and Ghost type attacks hit her hard, so I have to be careful when I'm switching her into Pokemon who typically run those attack types.

____________________________________________________

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt (Replace with Focus Blast/Hidden Power Fire?)​

I retained Tapu Lele as my main Special Sweeper. The main difference from my previous team is the use of Choice Scarf instead of Fightinium Z. I found myself being outsped a lot, and Choice Scarf felt like the logical Choice item to use, since Tapu Lele's Sp Atk is high enough to OHKO a lot of faster threats like Greninja-Ash, Tapu Koko, and Mega-Alakazam after Stealth Rock damage.

Psychic deals with Fighting and Poison types, as well as generally Physically Defensive Pokemon, and Psyshock is for Specially Defensive Pokemon. Moonblast usually OHKOs any Dark and Dragon types. Thunderbolt came on as a result of my encountering what I feel is an unusual amount of Water and Flying types in the metagame recently. I'm considering putting Focus Blast back on to deal with Steel types who want to check Tapu Lele. Hidden Power Fire is also an option I want to try specifically for dealing with Magearna.

The main thing to watch out for when Tapu Lele is active is Steel types like Magearna, Heatran, Celesteela, Ferrothorn, Kartana, and even Jirachi sometimes. Their Steel STAB attacks like Flash Cannon or Iron Head outright OHKOs Tapu Lele. Poison and Ghost type attacks aren't as common, but occasionally a surprise Shadow Ball also OHKOs Tapu Lele, and so do powerful STAB moves like Earthquake because of Tapu Lele's weak Defense.

____________________________________________________

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Protect​

Zygarde rounds out the current team and replaces Heatran as one of my Sweepers. Since Latias also functioned as a second Special Attacker, I really wanted a second Physical Sweeper for after Conkeldurr goes down. I was just so fed up with Heatran, and even Heatran's first replacement Volcarona getting utterly smeared by every Ground type attack and Stealth Rock. I also needed a Pokemon that had access to a Ground type move that could also smack down Flying types, as well as Levitate and Air Balloon users after I decided to remove Landorus-T from the team. Zygrade seemed like the most logical choice due to his access to Thousand Arrows.

Substitute + Dragon Dance + Protect + Leftovers not only makes Zygarde completely amazing as a Set-up Sweeper, they also make him function as a great Wall against actual Wall Pokemon like Ferrothorn and Celesteela. 248 HP EVs gives Zygarde massive Substitutes that can withstand a lot of punishment, including Chancey's Seismic Tosses with HP to spare. After 2-3 Dragon Dances, Zygarde can cleanly Sweep entire teams because there is no Pokemon immune to Zygarde's STAB move, Thousand Arrows.

Dragon, Fairy, and especially Ice type attacks wreck Zygrade though, so my other Pokemon have to handle those threats first before Zygarde can truly Sweep.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________​

Obvious Strengths (that even a noob like me can see):
1. Conkeldurr, Zygarde, Latias-Mega, and Tapu Lele can all sometimes Sweep.
2. Forces a lot of Switches for free damage, and Stealth Rock adds even more free damage.
3. Ferrothorn + Toxapex are super-annoying Walls that make enemy pokemon hurt themselves.
4. My team has access to lots of HP recovery.
5. Defog means my team isn't as vulnerable to Entry Hazards as before.

Obvious Weaknesses (that even a noob like me can see):
1. No Knock Off - I really enjoy removing items, especially on Pokemon that rely on them to really function like Heatran.
2. No U-Turn/Volt Switch - Switching requires a lot more prediction now without Landorus-T's U-Turn.
3. Still can't really deal well with huge Wall teams like Chansey + Clefable + Sableye-mega + Tangrowth.
4. Magearna is a dangerous threat against all four of my Sweeper Pokemon. I'm contemplating bringing back Landorus-T just to deal with Magearna, but I can't decide which Sweeper Pokemon to replace.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________
​

According to what I've read, the Pokemon in my current team aren't individually as strong as the Pokemon in my previous team. So I've either slightly improved as a player, or the synergy of these Pokemon allows the current team to outweigh the sum of their parts. One or both of these factors allowed me to rise higher than I could reach with my previous team. Like I said earlier though, there's always room for improvement. Please help me improve. Thank you.

User Look Up: https://pokemonshowdown.com/users/fayari
Images: http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/

 

[Fayari]

Thank you for the reply! I will definitely experiment with some of the changes you suggested!

The only thing I disagree with is about your assessment of Life Orb on Conkeldurr. Conkeldurr's Sheer Force negates Life Orb recoil damage, so Life Orb is actually great on Conkeldurr because you get the extra power without the drawback.

Again, thank you for the reply! I appreciate it!

 

[TheTapDancer]

My main comment here is that your Conk would be more effective with the following set:

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Mach Punch

Sheer Force looks better than Iron Fist, but having the boosted power on priority and the ability to run Drain Punch makes all the difference. Drain Punch hits everything Fire Punch would have hit, and this way you've also got the physical bulk to be taking on kartana and pals (who don't appreciate a drain punch to the face any more than a fire punch.)

My other comment is that I hope you're not leading with Conk every game. This isn't a team that needs a dedicated lead.

 

[Fayari]

My main comment here is that your Conk would be more effective with the following set:

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Mach Punch

Sheer Force looks better than Iron Fist, but having the boosted power on priority and the ability to run Drain Punch makes all the difference. Drain Punch hits everything Fire Punch would have hit, and this way you've also got the physical bulk to be taking on kartana and pals (who don't appreciate a drain punch to the face any more than a fire punch.)

My other comment is that I hope you're not leading with Conk every game. This isn't a team that needs a dedicated lead.

Thank you for the reply!

That Conkeldurr does indeed sound tankier. I'll definitely experiment with it and see if it works!

As for choosing which Pokemon to Lead with, I do most often choose Conkeldurr, but sometimes I go with Ferrothorn/Latias too if I think they'll send out a Psychic/Fighting type like Medicham-Mega or Gallade-Mega as their own Lead.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Deleted User 400951]

Thank you for the reply! I will definitely experiment with some of the changes you suggested!

The only thing I disagree with is about your assessment of Life Orb on Conkeldurr. Conkeldurr's Sheer Force negates Life Orb recoil damage, so Life Orb is actually great on Conkeldurr because you get the extra power without the drawback.

Again, thank you for the reply! I appreciate it!

Actually, it should run flame orb guts. In turn for a bit of chip each turn it becomes ridiculously powerful *and* gains a pseudo-status immunity. This is the old set back when conk had an analysis, it's still applicable in this meta:

name: Guts Wallbreaker
move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Facade
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Mach Punch / Bulk Up
item: Flame Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 92 SpD / 164 Spe

speed for av gear and clef. Actual STAB and Facade hits pretty much everything the elemental punches do but way harder. That being said conk is not very good in this meta, I don't have time for a full rate tho.

 

[Fayari]

Actually, it should run flame orb guts. In turn for a bit of chip each turn it becomes ridiculously powerful *and* gains a pseudo-status immunity. This is the old set back when conk had an analysis, it's still applicable in this meta:

name: Guts Wallbreaker
move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Facade
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Mach Punch / Bulk Up
item: Flame Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 92 SpD / 164 Spe

speed for av gear and clef. Actual STAB and Facade hits pretty much everything the elemental punches do but way harder. That being said conk is not very good in this meta, I don't have time for a full rate tho.

Thank you for the reply!

While the Flame Orb + Guts is really interesting, I am worried about the -6% health every turn for 1.5x power on everything. Life Orb + Sheer Force is 1.6x power on the elemental punches without any damage, and still 1.3x power on Mach Punch. I am aware that STAB Drain Punch simulates super-effective damage on neutral targets, but I think I'd rather have the actual coverage from the elemental punches without the guaranteed burn damage.

I will still consider your suggestions and experiment with them, though!

Again, thank you for the reply! I really appreciate it.

 

[XxKidofDeathxX]

You should make toxapex full spdef, ferrothorn should be 252 hp 88 def and 168 spdef impish imo, make Lele timid, you don't need psychic stab on lati make it hp fire or tbolt and since the team is bulky enough make zygarde fully offensive - max speed, 232 atk and the rest in hp, and replace conk with lopunny, make it power up punch, encore, hjk, and return.

 

[XxKidofDeathxX]

Also you should consider making pex tspikes or if you keep toxic make zygarde z move

 

[XxKidofDeathxX]

Forgot to tell you to make zygarde adamant too lol jolly is not that great

 

[XxKidofDeathxX]

Tornadus therian can also replace mega lati. It gives you Defog u turn and knock off in one thus providing the utility you're looking for. You can also make it flyinium z if you want to keep subtect zygarde.

 

[Deleted User 400951]

Thank you for the reply!

While the Flame Orb + Guts is really interesting, I am worried about the -6% health every turn for 1.5x power on everything. Life Orb + Sheer Force is 1.6x power on the elemental punches without any damage, and still 1.3x power on Mach Punch. I am aware that STAB Drain Punch simulates super-effective damage on neutral targets, but I think I'd rather have the actual coverage from the elemental punches without the guaranteed burn damage.

I will still consider your suggestions and experiment with them, though!

Again, thank you for the reply! I really appreciate it.

Drain punch does enough damage against most foes to marginalize the burn damage. Also, Facade hits most of the targets the punches do much harder - guts facade is doing more than lo sheer force punches. Due to its good neutral coverage, it greatly eases prediction. It significantly frees up moveslots while increasing effectiveness against most neutral targets.

If you are keeping your set, Fire punch is 100% useless. Drain punch hits everything it does and much, much more. The guts set is much better all the same.

 

[Fayari]

Tornadus therian can also replace mega lati. It gives you Defog u turn and knock off in one thus providing the utility you're looking for. You can also make it flyinium z if you want to keep subtect zygarde.

Thank you for the reply!

The changes you suggested are very interesting, especially the Tornadus.

I do want to keep subtect Zygarde, and I feel like toxic spikes isn't as good as toxic nowadays since nearly everyone has a poison type and steel type to absorb and switch into the toxic spikes anyway.

I will definitely try your Tornadus suggestions as soon as I get back home.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Fayari]

Drain punch does enough damage against most foes to marginalize the burn damage. Also, Facade hits most of the targets the punches do much harder - guts facade is doing more than lo sheer force punches. Due to its good neutral coverage, it greatly eases prediction. It significantly frees up moveslots while increasing effectiveness against most neutral targets.

If you are keeping your set, Fire punch is 100% useless. Drain punch hits everything it does and much, much more. The guts set is much better all the same.

Thank you for the reply!

While I do get what you're saying, I mostly keep the Fire Punch for Scizor Mega leads and for predicting bug type switch-ins like Pinsir Mega, Beedrill Mega, and Scolipede who resist Fighting type.

Rest assured that I will still try the Flame Orb Guts combo with Drain Punch, and make adjustments to my team to answer bug types.

Like I said before, I really appreciate the help!

 

[teachable]

Heya, glad to see Conk in OU since it hits hard as heck.
Already been mentioned, but Flame Orb + Guts is the reason it was too powerful for UU and I'd definitely agree that its way better than any of its other sets (AV/Life Orb). It pairs pretty well with Lele, surprisingly, since doubling it in on Lele's counters can let you just claim a kill.
Since you have a Z Crystal available and are not using T Spikes on pex (and I don't think you should be) for your Sub/Tect Zygarde, I'd recommend using the offensive Dragonium-Z variant, it requires you to weaken a lot less to sweep!
You also are very weak to opposing Zygarde with Substitute w/ no way to hit them on Ferro, I'd opt to run Power Whip in your 4th moveslot so you have a chance of beating them (although you still lose to sub/coil variants, so I'd .
For Lele's 4th moveslot, HP Fire is definitely your best bet as it can help you setup your own sweep w/ killing opposing Ferros/Skarms/Scizors and just generally makes it more annoying to switch into. Already said, but please use timid, Lele's speed tier is pretty good and its a shame to not make use of it.
You don't have a way to revenge Volcarona at +1, so I'd at least recommend making your Pex fully SpD to help check that (although Sub variants are going to 6-0 you still but those are kinda rare).
With Lele weakening most of Lati's checks, I'd honestly recommend one of the Stored Power Lati variants, I'll put the set down below. Since your team isn't particularly hazard weak (with most of the mons resisting Stealth Rocks or being immune to spikes) and the more offensive nature of this team meaning games usually won't last *too* long, Defog isn't a necessity.
Enjoy, hopefully some of my suggestions help you with your team :)

Latias

Latias-Mega @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
- Recover

 

[Fayari]

Heya, glad to see Conk in OU since it hits hard as heck.
Already been mentioned, but Flame Orb + Guts is the reason it was too powerful for UU and I'd definitely agree that its way better than any of its other sets (AV/Life Orb). It pairs pretty well with Lele, surprisingly, since doubling it in on Lele's counters can let you just claim a kill.
Since you have a Z Crystal available and are not using T Spikes on pex (and I don't think you should be) for your Sub/Tect Zygarde, I'd recommend using the offensive Dragonium-Z variant, it requires you to weaken a lot less to sweep!
You also are very weak to opposing Zygarde with Substitute w/ no way to hit them on Ferro, I'd opt to run Power Whip in your 4th moveslot so you have a chance of beating them (although you still lose to sub/coil variants, so I'd .
For Lele's 4th moveslot, HP Fire is definitely your best bet as it can help you setup your own sweep w/ killing opposing Ferros/Skarms/Scizors and just generally makes it more annoying to switch into. Already said, but please use timid, Lele's speed tier is pretty good and its a shame to not make use of it.
You don't have a way to revenge Volcarona at +1, so I'd at least recommend making your Pex fully SpD to help check that (although Sub variants are going to 6-0 you still but those are kinda rare).
With Lele weakening most of Lati's checks, I'd honestly recommend one of the Stored Power Lati variants, I'll put the set down below. Since your team isn't particularly hazard weak (with most of the mons resisting Stealth Rocks or being immune to spikes) and the more offensive nature of this team meaning games usually won't last *too* long, Defog isn't a necessity.
Enjoy, hopefully some of my suggestions help you with your team :)

Latias

Latias-Mega @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
- Recover

Thank you for the reply! Those are some very interesting suggestions!

I'm currently trying the Flame Orb + Guts combo right now, and while I have won a couple of battles more with it and have brought myself up to 1510 elo (Edit: I fell back down to 1400s), I am really hating the damage per turn. I haven't decided yet if I prefer it. The EV spread that others have recommended is great though.

For Zygarde, isn't Leftovers pretty much the defacto best item for SubTect Zygarde? I mean, I have won quite a number of games simply because the enemy couldn't break past Zygarde's Leftovers healing. I feel like Dragonium-Z would ruin that aspect of SubTect Zygarde and make him much easier to break past.

Also, I usually use Toxapex on enemy Sub Zygardes because of Haze. I've been testing Physically Defensive Toxapex, which can tank a +1 Dragon Dance Thousand Arrows from Adamant Full Atk Investment Zygarde (which isn't common on Sub Zygardes). So unless I horribly misplay, I usually have time to Haze and Recover. I find that it's the same for enemy Volcarona. Even at only 8 SpD on Toxapex, Volcarona usually only gets to hit Toxapex at +1 Quiver Dance once before I Haze its stat changes away.

+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Toxapex: 236-282 (77.8 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Psychic vs. 248 HP / 8+ SpD Toxapex: 222-262 (73.2 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Your Tapu Lele suggestion is great, and I've already replaced Thunderbolt with HP Fire. I'm debating on whether Timid is really the way to go on her though, given that I already use Choice Scarf. I don't know if I'll miss the damage that going Modest gives me. I'll definitely try it though, so don't worry!

I really like the Latias changes you suggested, and will be sure to try them too! Maybe I'll still keep Defog for peace of mind, but Calm Mind + Stored Power looks really interesting.

Thank you so much for all the suggestions! I really appreciate them!

 

[teachable]

Thank you for the reply! Those are some very interesting suggestions!

For Zygarde, isn't Leftovers pretty much the defacto best item for SubTect Zygarde? I mean, I have won quite a number of games simply because the enemy couldn't break past Zygarde's Leftovers healing. I feel like Dragonium-Z would ruin that aspect of SubTect Zygarde and make him much easier to break past.

Whoopsies, I should've given you a set; I was suggesting 3 attacks DD with dragonium (probably e speed, outrage, iron tail). You could try out sub coil or running t spikes on Pex! my main point was just that lack of t spikes was making SubTect not the greatest synergy-wise for your squad, but yeah it's an amazing set I agree.