I just am wondering how many of the people who are claiming bulky waters no longer work in gen 6 have actually tried using these bulky waters.
While the washing machine is good, Will-O-Wisp and Hydro Pump misses are gamebreaking. There are other somewhat bulky Pokemon that can take a hit and fill a similar role if that's all you're looking for (Mew for example), and they have the un-immune-able (not a word) U-Turn to keep momentum up. Regeneratormons, like Slowbro, are also very viable.I've gotten really tired of using Rotom-W, because it is almost like the perfect Pokemon and works on just about every team. It is ON just about every team. In a search for a cure, I've found that the old CM Resttalk Suicune performs admirably in gen 6. You lose out on Volt Switch, but having Calm Mind and Scald is so much more effective at what a Bulky Waters does best.
1, You spelt Vaporeon wrongFor a long time, bulky waters have been a dominant force for generations. The legendary suicune, to might swampert; the unbreakable vopareon, to metagame defying gastrodon. Now we are here in 6th gen, we can clearly see the drop of usage in bulky waters.
I agree, back in 5th generation a lot of people didn't have any answer for the Hydration Wall set, I used to do a max special defense, max HP set, even stuff like Starmie failed to OHKO it. Though the more experienced players were prepared for it.1, You spelt Vaporeon wrong
2. Vaporeon is easy AF to break, its only buffer against death was HydrationRest
and Rotom-W is really one of the only bulky waters even worth considering. Only Jellicent, Vaporeon(not so much anymore as sylveon generally can do cleric better now), Slowbro/king, and maybe quagsire should be used.
suicune is also useable as a bulky water and so is empoleon with the right support (but its more defog/sr utility rather than bulky water...)
CharX, CharY, physical mLucario (special too if Cune is unboosted), mPinsir (if you don't get lucky and burn it while it sets up), and Thundurus (before you get significant boosts) are all huge threats to the Cune. Really strong stuff like specs Keldeo and choice band Terrakion can outspeed and 3HKO you as well, which means you lose to them before you can rest again. That said, and these are all things that can break virtually any wall in the game that doesn't resist the specific attack, so it's not like Suicune is at a huge disadvantage here. Even Thundurus can 2HKO Blissey with rocks and superpower.So what's the general consensus about suicune in this meta? The only relevant threat it fears is Thundurus-I which shuts down its flagship set if Suicune haven't had enough CMs
I run rapid spin, scald, sludge bomb, and ice beam. (with black sludge attached)What kind of set do you run?
All of those except MPinsir threaten Rotom-W as well though, eh? So does that mean Suicune is in a good place right now?CharX, CharY, physical mLucario (special too if Cune is unboosted), mPinsir (if you don't get lucky and burn it while it sets up), and Thundurus (before you get significant boosts) are all huge threats to the Cune. Really strong stuff like specs Keldeo and choice band Terrakion can outspeed and 3HKO you as well, which means you lose to them before you can rest again. That said, and these are all things that can break virtually any wall in the game that doesn't resist the specific attack, so it's not like Suicune is at a huge disadvantage here. Even Thundurus can 2HKO Blissey with rocks and superpower.
Basically. Rotom is probably easier to use because you just switch him in to shit he counters, but I think a well played Suicune is more rewarding.All of those except MPinsir threaten Rotom-W as well though, eh? So does that mean Suicune is in a good place right now?
I use MegaStoise as a spinner/tank and he functions quite well. Rapid Spin and Dark Pulse for spinblocking Ghosts help his spinning utility, and Hydro Pump coming off of base 135 SpA hurts a lot of stuff. He has a plethora of coverage moves he can use, and he handles Talonflame very well. He isn't the best Mega to use right now since certain Megas that need to be banned (ohai Mega Lucario) still reside in OU, but he fulfills a unique role. Kind of like Starmie with bulk instead of speed.Anyone have any thoughts on Mega-Blastoise? I've heard some pretty mediocre to negative things elsewhere, but honestly I love him. He is a tank, quite literally and it is really hard to take down in two neutral hits. It seems to be a bit of a faux pas to trade away pokemon on anything but HO teams, but I've found him very threatening when the opponent is struggling to out damage him. When M-Blastoise has killed a guy and crippled another I see his job as done, and his general bulk makes him a nice catch all in many situations. Blastoise will often trade with one of my opponent's heaviest hitters which can really take the wind out of their sails. Closest to the traditional sense of bulky water that I've had in the new gen on my bulky offensive teams.
It has a good amount of counters. Strong Neutral hits will wear it down faster than it can recover with lefties. Chesto rest sets can be countered with a knock off monI use MegaStoise as a spinner/tank and he functions quite well. Rapid Spin and Dark Pulse for spinblocking Ghosts help his spinning utility, and Hydro Pump coming off of base 135 SpA hurts a lot of stuff. He has a plethora of coverage moves he can use, and he handles Talonflame very well. He isn't the best Mega to use right now since certain Megas that need to be banned (ohai Mega Lucario) still reside in OU, but he fulfills a unique role. Kind of like Starmie with bulk instead of speed.
Rotom-W is stupid. It has a great typing and movepool and is seen on almost every team because it can do so much it's annoying. When I see it, people almost always lead with it and either WoW or volt switch because it's such a simple strategy. I just hate it since it's so easy to use and has such good payoff with few drawbacks.
I concur, Tentacruel's been a beast for me.Tentacruel has been doing an amazing job for me. Resists the new fairy type, bug, fighting, steel, poison, fire, ice, and water. It feels like a steel type without the steel typing lol.
Is Rotom-W really a paradigmatic "bulky water" as in "bulky water" in the DPP sense? I thought its primary defensive appeal mainly is that it is ungrounded Flying resist (great especially against Pinsir and most Earthquake and Earth Power users except Exdadrill and Kyurem-B), and Fire resist for Talonflame. In contrast, all the types that resist Flying -- Rock, Steel, and Electric -- are weak against Ground. A +2 Pinsir can power through a Bulky Water (or even a Lando-T who made it a +1). Unlike a traditional "bulky water", Rotom-W relies more on its ability and typing than its raw defensive stats to be effective, and it is uniquely effective in the Gen 6 metagame.bulky waters are still around,
it's just before you had multiple pokemon with pros and cons.
Now with rotom-w, you have volt switch, Hydro pump, wow, immunity to ground, immunity to paralysis, one weakness and it's only a 2x weakness, alright recovery with painsplit, offensive presence, decent speed, in a single pokemon.
It's not that no one uses bulky waters, it's that bulky waters are outclassed now by Rotom-W, so why use anything else?
rotom-w does feel like it centralizes things a bit too much. tons of resists with only 1 minor weakness, volt turn, and it can wow much more easily because fire types can't switch into it.