drampa's grandpa
cannonball
I think you are forgetting that if P-Z's sets are combined, they can defeat the entire meta, but P-Z cannot be every set. For example, specs, (the most common in my experience) gets destroyed by every scarfer that can deal damage. Scarfed gets destroyed by any bulkier mons, probably steel types are the best. Setup, while it in theory is godly, the one turn it needs to set up can greatly hinder it when it can be used. Also, fighting stab scarf gren destroys all P-Z's, priority destroys them (after some chip), magrearna should beat them in theory with AAP, etc.
Also, Serperior is nowhere near busted, because of similar reasons above. So many prominent threats in the meta outspeed, and OHKO it, and if not, priority, (after some chip) does too.
Lele can be dealt with, but can be a bit harder. as said before, many threats outspeed a non scarf lele, and while setup can be a bit more difficult, a steel type tanks HP fire, and can usually kill with a steel move.
Note that I didn't bother to do calcs, so feel free to prove me wrong.
I feel that in this meta, anti setup is the most important thing. Specifically, anti speed and anti priority after boosts. My rain team has both swift swim users, and lele to deal with these, but teams without answers are bound to get destroyed by setup spam. Something as simple as protean scarf gren can usually keep people safe from speed, but lele is honestly one of the only viable priority checks.
I appreciate that Porygon-Z can't run all of its sets at once. However Porygon-Z operates by using essentially one move, Boomburst, to cause massive amounts of damage. It's entirely possible to bluff one set when you're running another. For instance; bluffing scarf by spamming Boombursts that show a lack of a boosting item in their damage, when you are really Z-Conversion. And because Porygon-Z is checked differently depending on what set it runs treating a scarf set as specs can lead to you having a valuable offensive mon KO'd while vice versa can lead to your wall being KO'd. Basically nothing can come in repeatedly on Specs Porygon-Z. Magearna technically can (252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Magearna: 154-182 (42.3 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery) but if it takes any damage it stands a very high risk of being KO'd. Offensive teams can revenge Scarf Porygon-Z with an Espeeder or Mach Puncher yes, but PZ has no reason to stay in on an obvious priority attack (and they're usually pretty obvious) and has, at that point, already KO'd something on the opposing team.
Timid Scarf PZ outspeeds every unboosted pokemon legal in sketchmons except lolninjask by one point. It has superb coverage basically only lacking a solid way to hit Steel/Rock types, but it doesn't even need that. It's incredibly easy to run slow pivots + PZ rn and slaughter any team that isn't heavily prepared for PZ. Revenging it isn't really a great option because it can switch out (as I've said) and all you've done is postpone it.
All of its defensive checks need to be at full health to switch into specs with the exception of some ghost types (Sableye-Mega), Tyranitar (252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 172-204 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock lolwoopsIkidbutitcantakeBoomburstsanyway), and soundproof memes (all of which get pegged by various coverage options).
Timid Scarf PZ outspeeds every unboosted pokemon legal in sketchmons except lolninjask by one point. It has superb coverage basically only lacking a solid way to hit Steel/Rock types, but it doesn't even need that. It's incredibly easy to run slow pivots + PZ rn and slaughter any team that isn't heavily prepared for PZ. Revenging it isn't really a great option because it can switch out (as I've said) and all you've done is postpone it.
All of its defensive checks need to be at full health to switch into specs with the exception of some ghost types (Sableye-Mega), Tyranitar (252 SpA Choice Specs Porygon-Z Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 172-204 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock lolwoopsIkidbutitcantakeBoomburstsanyway), and soundproof memes (all of which get pegged by various coverage options).
Serperior has an amazing speed tier at 113, outspeeding the pivotal 110 speed tier which means it outspeeds most of the unboosted meta. By far its most common sketched move is V-Create, one use of which pushes it out of range of standard scarfers other than maybe Torn-T (Scarf Koko runs +attacking stat, usually either Modest or Adamant). V-Create also patches up its defenses making it very difficult to revenge.
Serperior @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature / Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- V-create / Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ground] / [Ice] / Dragon Pulse
- Substitute / Dragon Pulse
OO: Taunt, Glare, Leech Seed
This is pretty much what I think you can expect to see from a Serperior (I'm sure there are points of the set that can be nitpicked). Note Substitute, which makes it even more difficult to revenge, and isn't that hard to set up against a lot of mons thanks to Serperiors excellent speed tier and high base power moves making it an immediate threat. It has the tools to shut down most of its checks if it wants. Hidden Power Ground kills Heatran, Dragon Pulse deals with dragon types not named Mega Altaria, Taunt can shut down most SpD walls (Chansey still gives it trouble unless it runs Leech Seed/Synthesis thanks to insane bulk and Seismic Toss).
Now it obviously can't run all of these at once, and I've found that to be Serperior's biggest flaw both in using it and in facing it: it can't use all the things it wants to at once. It can't have both the power of Life Orb and the survivability of Leftovers. While I find Lefties far serperior (kill me) because you don't kill yourself / put yourself in range of easy revenge killing, not having it nonetheless puts a notable dent in Serperior's firepower... and after all it does only have base 75 attacking stats. I know I said earlier that Serperior is immediately threatening but now I'm going to contradict myself a little by saying that efore its boosted Serperior is pretty weak. It takes two turns to really become a huge problem on the battlefield, and while its not doing nothing in those two turns (its not like other set up where thats the only thing the mon is doing; Serperior is firing off V-Creates and STAB Leaf Storms) its not as threatening as many of the other attackers in the meta ignoring the fact that its setting up in your face.
Basically Contrary is a pretty broken ability on anything that is able to use it well. Serperior isnt broken in standard thanks to its limited offensive coverage and the fact that grass is a pretty mediocre type, but here I think it's worth at least putting on the radar for a ban.
Serperior @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature / Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- V-create / Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ground] / [Ice] / Dragon Pulse
- Substitute / Dragon Pulse
OO: Taunt, Glare, Leech Seed
This is pretty much what I think you can expect to see from a Serperior (I'm sure there are points of the set that can be nitpicked). Note Substitute, which makes it even more difficult to revenge, and isn't that hard to set up against a lot of mons thanks to Serperiors excellent speed tier and high base power moves making it an immediate threat. It has the tools to shut down most of its checks if it wants. Hidden Power Ground kills Heatran, Dragon Pulse deals with dragon types not named Mega Altaria, Taunt can shut down most SpD walls (Chansey still gives it trouble unless it runs Leech Seed/Synthesis thanks to insane bulk and Seismic Toss).
Now it obviously can't run all of these at once, and I've found that to be Serperior's biggest flaw both in using it and in facing it: it can't use all the things it wants to at once. It can't have both the power of Life Orb and the survivability of Leftovers. While I find Lefties far serperior (kill me) because you don't kill yourself / put yourself in range of easy revenge killing, not having it nonetheless puts a notable dent in Serperior's firepower... and after all it does only have base 75 attacking stats. I know I said earlier that Serperior is immediately threatening but now I'm going to contradict myself a little by saying that efore its boosted Serperior is pretty weak. It takes two turns to really become a huge problem on the battlefield, and while its not doing nothing in those two turns (its not like other set up where thats the only thing the mon is doing; Serperior is firing off V-Creates and STAB Leaf Storms) its not as threatening as many of the other attackers in the meta ignoring the fact that its setting up in your face.
Basically Contrary is a pretty broken ability on anything that is able to use it well. Serperior isnt broken in standard thanks to its limited offensive coverage and the fact that grass is a pretty mediocre type, but here I think it's worth at least putting on the radar for a ban.
I'm not going to say that much about Lele. Hidden Power Fire isn't much of a thing, because this is Sketchmons, and you can use Blue Flare. Most Lele either run that or Quiver Dance as far as I'm aware, although I think some people run stronger Psychic STABs and I've run Volt Switch. Scarf is the most common item on Lele. It's usually pretty safe to assume Scarf unless you see Life Orb damage, in which case its probably Quiver Dance inb4 i get slaughtered by z move lele. I know Glyx ran Specs.
My problem with Lele is that I find myself coming back to the same couple of mons to check it. Mostly defensive Heatran tbh. I would be open to being educated on how to deal with it better, because I find it the least problematic of the mons I mentioned. However there's no denying its an extremely threatening mon and saying "a steel type tanks HP fire, and can usually kill with a steel move," ignores the coverage Lele commonly runs which bypasses most Steel types. (252 SpA Tapu Lele Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Magearna: 186-220 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery)
My problem with Lele is that I find myself coming back to the same couple of mons to check it. Mostly defensive Heatran tbh. I would be open to being educated on how to deal with it better, because I find it the least problematic of the mons I mentioned. However there's no denying its an extremely threatening mon and saying "a steel type tanks HP fire, and can usually kill with a steel move," ignores the coverage Lele commonly runs which bypasses most Steel types. (252 SpA Tapu Lele Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Magearna: 186-220 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery)
Hide tags are cuz I kinda wrote a lot. I feel like I still haven't given a great account on PZ, so I may edit that later. Thanks for responding tho ^_^
I feel like I should clarify that the only mon I am entirely pro-ban on is PZ atm. The other two I just think deserve the conversation and have been particularly annoying for me to build around.