You never sent out Cinccino
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Metagame Shared Power
- Thread starter The Immortal
- Start date
hey guys, im new to the forums and the meta. Ive been playin an offensive team featurin barbaracle + dracovish cause i want to give tough claws and strong jaw at the same time to a pokemon with fang attacks, idk if its workin correctly because as u all know when a move is boosted by them it shows up when u hover the mouse over the move right?, I noticed it doesn't show anymore when both barb and vish have been sent out already. wondering if it straight doesn't work or its just not showin up. thanks in advance, good day.
Hover features are never programmed to work for OMs like this. I believe they would require additional client hooks, and that's pretty much impossible currently until the client rewrite goes live.
You may want to pack a trapping stallbreaker (I used Jellicent to good success).
Hello guys, I have a question. In this replay, Isn't Queenly Majesty working well or is it affected by prankster? https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1094636771
Haze doesn't target so it isn't impacted by Queenly Majestic
I saw nothing wrong in that replay, they were able to status you until Grimmsnarl was sent out after which they stuck to Recover and Haze.
I've done it!!
After half a day editing I made the sequel to the earlier meme, don't diss cause it took half a day and i'm a rookie at that stuff
A short meme about toxapex II The Malamar Strikes Back(The video is based upon the scene from Metal Gear: Phantom Blood "why are we still here, just to suffer)
Edit: Was hard to sync the two things so in some places it's really well synced and the last 10 to 15 seconds aren't as well synced
After half a day editing I made the sequel to the earlier meme, don't diss cause it took half a day and i'm a rookie at that stuff
A short meme about toxapex II The Malamar Strikes Back(The video is based upon the scene from Metal Gear: Phantom Blood "why are we still here, just to suffer)
Edit: Was hard to sync the two things so in some places it's really well synced and the last 10 to 15 seconds aren't as well synced
Still a few issues with the meta imo
Over-centralzing:
Contrary: Ability is too strong. This is an ability that BH had to ban. Everything getting boosts off powerful moves. Only Prankster+Haze can temporarily handle it. This was true in BH, it is just a delay too. And when 3-4 mons can do it on a team, there are not enough options to cover all the contrary threats on a team. And combine this with a speed doubling abilities that have survived (sand spit+sand rush; terrain seeds and unburden). Contrary and Unaware are tied together. When one goes, so should the other. The only place where contrayr is allowed on non-native pokemon is Pure Hackmons because of how unhealthy it is in any Metagame.
Speed doubling abilities:
Sand Spit + Sand Rush: If there were more speed doubling abilities allowed, this wouldn't be an issue. But now there are only two options for speed doubling left since all the others are banned. Near automatic to sand stream. Stall can handle it. But HO and balance lose. I had to run Excadrill on any style of those teams, just to not lose to the remaining speed doubling abilities. I think this is a meta, as we are seeing, where speed doubling abilities should not be allowed because of how quickly it snowballs out of control. This is why all the other combos were banned.
Unburden + seed: Another ban last gen and likely this gen. It is extremely strong in combination with contrary. But even as a speed doubling ability it stills pulls its weight. Say contrary and sand spit+sand rush are banned, this could stay, just to see if it is manageable, since it is a one time use. But would still need to be a watch list item I suspect.
Regenerator: Combining this with other abilities, makes it unbreakable. Doing something like fur scales, natural cure, sticky hold, heavy duty boots, and whatever you want as your last ability (stamina) in combination with opposing stat nullifiers (haze, clear smog, roar, etc.), there are only a handful of ways to break through at best. Infinite switch stall teams, and only a few offensive specialized teams break through. Having 6 pokemon that can restore 33% of their heath with no risk is too large a benefit.
On the Radar:
Sturdy: Can be a very centralizing ability. If Sand Spit+Sand Rush get banned, only Skill Link teams can break through, and SKill link teams took a big hit compared to last gen (lose Mega Beedrill and no instant power). While sturdy gained heavy duty boots. And you can always add iron barbs, stamina, or sand rush to mitigate residual damage.
Fur Coat: Very centralizing ability, might say broken checking broken. But doubling stats instantly for the entire team makes things near impossible to kill.
Ice Scales: Same reasoning as fur scales.
Otherwise I think Shared Power is getting close to a more stable meta and the bans will slow down after the abilities mentioned are dealt with.
Over-centralzing:
Contrary: Ability is too strong. This is an ability that BH had to ban. Everything getting boosts off powerful moves. Only Prankster+Haze can temporarily handle it. This was true in BH, it is just a delay too. And when 3-4 mons can do it on a team, there are not enough options to cover all the contrary threats on a team. And combine this with a speed doubling abilities that have survived (sand spit+sand rush; terrain seeds and unburden). Contrary and Unaware are tied together. When one goes, so should the other. The only place where contrayr is allowed on non-native pokemon is Pure Hackmons because of how unhealthy it is in any Metagame.
Speed doubling abilities:
Sand Spit + Sand Rush: If there were more speed doubling abilities allowed, this wouldn't be an issue. But now there are only two options for speed doubling left since all the others are banned. Near automatic to sand stream. Stall can handle it. But HO and balance lose. I had to run Excadrill on any style of those teams, just to not lose to the remaining speed doubling abilities. I think this is a meta, as we are seeing, where speed doubling abilities should not be allowed because of how quickly it snowballs out of control. This is why all the other combos were banned.
Unburden + seed: Another ban last gen and likely this gen. It is extremely strong in combination with contrary. But even as a speed doubling ability it stills pulls its weight. Say contrary and sand spit+sand rush are banned, this could stay, just to see if it is manageable, since it is a one time use. But would still need to be a watch list item I suspect.
Regenerator: Combining this with other abilities, makes it unbreakable. Doing something like fur scales, natural cure, sticky hold, heavy duty boots, and whatever you want as your last ability (stamina) in combination with opposing stat nullifiers (haze, clear smog, roar, etc.), there are only a handful of ways to break through at best. Infinite switch stall teams, and only a few offensive specialized teams break through. Having 6 pokemon that can restore 33% of their heath with no risk is too large a benefit.
On the Radar:
Sturdy: Can be a very centralizing ability. If Sand Spit+Sand Rush get banned, only Skill Link teams can break through, and SKill link teams took a big hit compared to last gen (lose Mega Beedrill and no instant power). While sturdy gained heavy duty boots. And you can always add iron barbs, stamina, or sand rush to mitigate residual damage.
Fur Coat: Very centralizing ability, might say broken checking broken. But doubling stats instantly for the entire team makes things near impossible to kill.
Ice Scales: Same reasoning as fur scales.
Otherwise I think Shared Power is getting close to a more stable meta and the bans will slow down after the abilities mentioned are dealt with.
When you remove half the meta to make the meta
iLlama
Nothing personal, I protect my people
I have yet to see Sturdy present an issue so I'm unsure what you're referring to with that. Fur Coat/Fluffy and Ice Scales I think are very necessary for this OM in order to make any defensive archetypes possible. The only reason stall can be so overbearing is because of Regenerator. Stall is very beatable with many more team comps than you'd probably expect, the only issue is the presence of 1 defining offensive build and Regenerator making it impossible to break things efficiently.
I'm new to the forums, and I almost completely agree with this. Sand spit+sand rush is every bit as guaranteed as sand stream+sand rush, and it makes dealing with contrary mons like Draco Meteor Dragapult and Superpower Hawlucha unbearable (the latter is extremely powerful with an unburden+acrobatics set too). Speed boosting teams break through even stall (Ice scales pex can't live for more than two-three turns, sorry for no exact damage calcs), as they ALWAYS carry contrary and snowball with boosting moves like draco meteor and superpower. Unburden+terrain+seed can be dealt with by forcing a switch, which is hard but not impossible. However, there's no reason for sand spit+sand rush not to be banned if sand stream+sand rush is banned.
Just wanted to share a stall team that takes advantage of Regen which has decent matchups versus contrary and other offense archetypes. While not creative by any stretch, this stall team doesn't feature Ice Scales or Fur Coat/Fluffy and instead relies on Drizzle + Recovery abilities and Prankster Haze to check offensive threats, so I thought it was worth sharing.
---> Click for rain stall team. <---
The main idea of the team is to get Prankster, Drizzle, Rain Dish, and Dry Skin set up and stall for PP effectively with Substitute + Protect. Multi-hit mons are all conveniently walled by Prankster Haze Toxapex. The wincon of the team, since it lacks hazards, is PP stall + trapping.
Since matches take about 30 mins each with this team, I haven't gotten many games in, but it's performed very well despite not needing any kind of insight to pilot well. Even versus teams that can make progress versus it, such as Infiltrator Contrary Dragapult and any sort of sound move spam team, Pressure + Regen helps stall PP down to the point that you can sac a few mons to whittle the PP and win with the surviving mons.
My main takeaway from making this team is that Regenerator needs to go. This team is far from optimized, and it turns matchups versus fun, creative teams and puts them through absolute hell for 30 mins.
Here is a sample replay showing me sacking mons to PP stall the one threat to my team (Toxtricity) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1094701152
---> Click for rain stall team. <---
The main idea of the team is to get Prankster, Drizzle, Rain Dish, and Dry Skin set up and stall for PP effectively with Substitute + Protect. Multi-hit mons are all conveniently walled by Prankster Haze Toxapex. The wincon of the team, since it lacks hazards, is PP stall + trapping.
Since matches take about 30 mins each with this team, I haven't gotten many games in, but it's performed very well despite not needing any kind of insight to pilot well. Even versus teams that can make progress versus it, such as Infiltrator Contrary Dragapult and any sort of sound move spam team, Pressure + Regen helps stall PP down to the point that you can sac a few mons to whittle the PP and win with the surviving mons.
My main takeaway from making this team is that Regenerator needs to go. This team is far from optimized, and it turns matchups versus fun, creative teams and puts them through absolute hell for 30 mins.
Here is a sample replay showing me sacking mons to PP stall the one threat to my team (Toxtricity) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1094701152
Looks like there was a bit of an oversight when adding those complex bans. Specifically, if the combination of sand stream and sand rush is banned, then sand spit and sand rush should also be banned. Evidence: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1094742895
When you are about to be swept but toxapex says no : https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8sharedpower-1094193781 (btw with regenerator this thing makes stall so broken).
Turns out Unburden is just as effective even it uses up more than one slot for support (Pincurchin + Tsareena). Additionally, if you've laddered in the past day, you would have come across Unburden teams that do not even utilize terrains (for example: Throat Spray). As a result, Unburden is now banned. I believe that it makes more sense to ban it as whole instead of adding three complex bans and it still being questionably broken.
So this is a pretty simple combo.
Heliolisk has Electrify, which normally is useless in Single.
But in Shared Power, you can give Heliolisk both Prankster and Lightning Rod, almost impossible to punish while also providing an easy way to boost SpA.
Without priority of your own (on a faster attacking Pokemon), Extreme Speed (which is rare), Dark Types, Queenly Majesty (both Dark types and Queenly Majesty can be solved by not sending out Grimmsnarl), and Electric Immune abilities, there is hardly any way to fully beat this. And I’m surprised I have not seem this on ladder yet.
Heliolisk is preferred over Boltund as it provides a better ability and has a better movepool by a mile.
Rhyperior is an excellent choice as it provides Stealth Rock, Lightning Rod, and is complimented by Heliolisk’s Dry Skin.
Steath Rocks are extra important as that punish opponents who just constantly switch.
The problem is not regenerator, the problem is that you can't break stall with fur coat+ice scales, I need Scales to check Contrary abusers, and fur coat to check Adaptability+Hustle+Guts with Toxapex
Now try to beat stall vs stall when both have regenerator and U-turn and then it becomes hell, to me VoltTurn Stall is the worst thing to deal when using stall, only way to deal with this is having something faster than A-Persian or Whimsicott and Infestation (Ribombee) but cant deal with Toxapex, you can't even trap those teams
Now try to beat stall vs stall when both have regenerator and U-turn and then it becomes hell, to me VoltTurn Stall is the worst thing to deal when using stall, only way to deal with this is having something faster than A-Persian or Whimsicott and Infestation (Ribombee) but cant deal with Toxapex, you can't even trap those teams
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I like it, it seems beautifully broken
So this is a pretty simple combo.
Heliolisk has Electrify, which normally is useless in Single.
But in Shared Power, you can give Heliolisk both Prankster and Lightning Rod, almost impossible to punish while also providing an easy way to boost SpA.
Without priority of your own (on a faster attacking Pokemon), Extreme Speed (which is rare), Dark Types, Queenly Majesty (both Dark types and Queenly Majesty can be solved by not sending out Grimmsnarl), and Electric Immune abilities, there is hardly any way to fully beat this. And I’m surprised I have not seem this on ladder yet.
Heliolisk is preferred over Boltund as it provides a better ability and has a better movepool by a mile.
Rhyperior is an excellent choice as it provides Stealth Rock, Lightning Rod, and is complimented by Heliolisk’s Dry Skin.
Steath Rocks are extra important as that punish opponents who just constantly switch.
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I love this idea, and will probably try a variant of it :)
So this is a pretty simple combo.
Heliolisk has Electrify, which normally is useless in Single.
But in Shared Power, you can give Heliolisk both Prankster and Lightning Rod, almost impossible to punish while also providing an easy way to boost SpA.
Without priority of your own (on a faster attacking Pokemon), Extreme Speed (which is rare), Dark Types, Queenly Majesty (both Dark types and Queenly Majesty can be solved by not sending out Grimmsnarl), and Electric Immune abilities, there is hardly any way to fully beat this. And I’m surprised I have not seem this on ladder yet.
Heliolisk is preferred over Boltund as it provides a better ability and has a better movepool by a mile.
Rhyperior is an excellent choice as it provides Stealth Rock, Lightning Rod, and is complimented by Heliolisk’s Dry Skin.
Steath Rocks are extra important as that punish opponents who just constantly switch.
I agree that Regenerator should be banned. I don't think the problem is FurScales. If there was no Regen then it would be easier to break teams down further but the constant switching (imo) is just boring and not creative. It's a valid game play yes, but completely takes the fun out of the metagame. I simply just forfeit now when I see Regen, Iron Barbs, FurScales and Stamina/Marvel Scale etc. It's just not fun and I know I will inevitably lose (which kinda makes me think it's broken).
:)
iLlama
Nothing personal, I protect my people
I would presume the reason we haven't seen this is exactly because Prankster Electrify would be blocked by Queenly Majesty, Psychic Terrain, and Dark-types since it targets a single Pokemon, unlike Haze which targets the field. All three of these counters to this Heliolisk strategy are staples of the metagame so I can't see this type of build finding much success.
So this is a pretty simple combo.
Heliolisk has Electrify, which normally is useless in Single.
But in Shared Power, you can give Heliolisk both Prankster and Lightning Rod, almost impossible to punish while also providing an easy way to boost SpA.
Without priority of your own (on a faster attacking Pokemon), Extreme Speed (which is rare), Dark Types, Queenly Majesty (both Dark types and Queenly Majesty can be solved by not sending out Grimmsnarl), and Electric Immune abilities, there is hardly any way to fully beat this. And I’m surprised I have not seem this on ladder yet.
Heliolisk is preferred over Boltund as it provides a better ability and has a better movepool by a mile.
Rhyperior is an excellent choice as it provides Stealth Rock, Lightning Rod, and is complimented by Heliolisk’s Dry Skin.
Steath Rocks are extra important as that punish opponents who just constantly switch.
I'll restate this but I think Fur Coat/Fluffy and Ice Scales are necessary for this metagame to have some sort of defensive play style. As soon as you take away the only practical defensive check to things such as Contrary/Flare Boost, Hustle/No Guard/Guts, and other offensive builds you force this meta into a whole new volatile state where the best offense reigns supreme.
With Unburden banned I've finally been able to run some anti-stall offense and it seems to do fairly well even against the most passive Regenerator stall builds. Regenerator still feels too powerful because I have to build specifically for the Prankster Haze + Regenerator stall matchup, leaving me noticeably susceptible to the Quick Feet/Sand Spit + Queenly Majesty matchup.
Trying not to multi-post so I'm just gonna add this in since I have some issues with this bit. Having to change your strategy in a game to just not attack the other team so that they don't get sand is not how you should be playing the meta. Stall can pull this off because it's stall, but if you're running balance or offense you can't feel so pressured that you can no longer attack the opponent so that they don't get sand up, at some point you need to attack. Having the ability to choose when to attack seems like a benefit but in reality it means you have to pick and choose what threat is to great on the opponent's side that you have to attack it and subsequently deal with the large repercussions. Plus if the opponent predicts your attack and baits it you've no given them access to sand and you're plan to deal with a threat has failed because you attacked.
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Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
current problems i see+solutions:
stall. stall is just too annoying right now and almost impossible to break. as a stall/balance player im saying this.
solution: ban regen, and limit to 1 of fluffy, fur coat AND ice scales per team(their basically the same abilities) im sick of seeing the same pressure, ice scales, regen, fur coat, teams that just switch around all game.
hyper offense:
unbu-oh, its gone. good good.
edited: contrary-the only real issue with contrary right now is a certain speedy dragon ghost. so honestly, id rather ban dragapult then outright suspect contrary itself. looking at others, noivern could easily take its place, so idk, prob better to just suspect contrary as a whole.
sand spit is slightly annoying, but i think its manageable with being able to control when they get sand up.
balance:
balance just steals from both of the above lol.
all in all, its a fun meta, but its near unplayable because of the above issues.
stall. stall is just too annoying right now and almost impossible to break. as a stall/balance player im saying this.
solution: ban regen, and limit to 1 of fluffy, fur coat AND ice scales per team(their basically the same abilities) im sick of seeing the same pressure, ice scales, regen, fur coat, teams that just switch around all game.
hyper offense:
unbu-oh, its gone. good good.
edited: contrary-
sand spit is slightly annoying, but i think its manageable with being able to control when they get sand up.
balance:
balance just steals from both of the above lol.
all in all, its a fun meta, but its near unplayable because of the above issues.
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Thanks. I was wondering if that was the case.
Still, that just means you just save your Grimmsnarl for later. Boltund was also an alternative since it has 121 speed, making it so that it naturally outspeeds more Pokemon.
What if added a sturdy to the team, along with an immunity, and queenly majesty then if their team does have a dark type you don't use prankster and the heliolisk has a salac berry, it survives with one health with increased Spe and sweeps the whole team except for the highest base Spe Scarf mons