oh god, this wrecks my whole team lmao
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Metagame Shared Power [Under Re-Construction!]
- Thread starter Haaku.
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I think that Cheek Pouch + Harvest + Gluttony + Prankster needs to be looked at. This strategy takes actually 0 skill and is actually like a dumb version of moody tbh (when paired with a starf berry). All users can get +2 in any stat almost every turn, and to make things worse, Kyub goes through unaware, so no stalling this monster out. This strategy, though vastly underrated, packs a powerful punch, and even prepared teams struggle to take it down, especially if you add in the fact that stamina works with this strategy particularly well, due to the one counter being Skill Link and having a 40 or more PP move, which are usually low power and therefore unviable.
Furthermore, legitimately any pokemon can use this strategy, and still be somewhat good with it. With all of those abilites, stamina, and magic guard or unaware, this strategy is simply unbeatable except by PP stall, and even if you stall 1 pokemon, you have 5 more with identical sets ready in the back.
Thank you, and please look into this.
Furthermore, legitimately any pokemon can use this strategy, and still be somewhat good with it. With all of those abilites, stamina, and magic guard or unaware, this strategy is simply unbeatable except by PP stall, and even if you stall 1 pokemon, you have 5 more with identical sets ready in the back.
Thank you, and please look into this.
Hello and welcome to the metagame!
Mold Breaker and Teravolt cannot be shared among its team. So, on that team you posted, only Basculin can make use of Mold Breaker. It is still a great ability on those Pokemon that have it such as Kyurem-Black and Pangoro, though.
After battling a few rounds...
I honestly think there should be something done about Skill Link + Dazzling/ QM/ Psychic Surge + Sturdy.
A lot of those teams run Sturdy Mons with hard-hitting fast/ scarfed Mons and your own Priority doesn't do anything against it. If I run scarfed Mons my own, they have their Checks and worst is, if I knock out one of them, their Cloyster will set-up on my face, outspeed everything, break every Sash/ Sturdy/ Multiscale with Skill Link and not even Stamina will be able to deal with this due to Unaware...
I know, this Metagame is inherently broken, so we need broken Mons to check other broken ones. But I honestly think that some of it still needs some fixing. This whole Skill Link + Dazzling + Sturdy thing just came to be, because Multiscale + MG and -ate + Espeed were exploited. We let this happen just to see how it develops and at the peak of it, we now have these kinds of teams.
I honestly think, the Solution would be to stop the sharing of Multiscale, Sturdy and Skill Link. Sturdy + MG can only be countered by Mold Breaker and that ability cannot be shared. I think, the other abilities should be treated similarly.
I honestly think there should be something done about Skill Link + Dazzling/ QM/ Psychic Surge + Sturdy.
A lot of those teams run Sturdy Mons with hard-hitting fast/ scarfed Mons and your own Priority doesn't do anything against it. If I run scarfed Mons my own, they have their Checks and worst is, if I knock out one of them, their Cloyster will set-up on my face, outspeed everything, break every Sash/ Sturdy/ Multiscale with Skill Link and not even Stamina will be able to deal with this due to Unaware...
I know, this Metagame is inherently broken, so we need broken Mons to check other broken ones. But I honestly think that some of it still needs some fixing. This whole Skill Link + Dazzling + Sturdy thing just came to be, because Multiscale + MG and -ate + Espeed were exploited. We let this happen just to see how it develops and at the peak of it, we now have these kinds of teams.
I honestly think, the Solution would be to stop the sharing of Multiscale, Sturdy and Skill Link. Sturdy + MG can only be countered by Mold Breaker and that ability cannot be shared. I think, the other abilities should be treated similarly.
I have used this strategy, and it's nowhere near unbeatable. First, you basically have to use all bad mons. Nothing good gets Harvest and nothing good gets Cheek Pouch. Gluttony is also harder to use, and the fact that Harvest can fail really lets you down. Also, any sash or sturdy mon beats it unless you're running Multiscale. Also, if you don't hit your opponent then they can't do anything. And since these strats often require Stored Power or Power Trip to beat Unaware, they usually have weaker moves. They need 1 to 2 moveslots for Sub and an optional Protect (increases the chance of getting Harvests), which gives them only 2 moves to hit you with. And yes, a Kyurem-Black could beat many counters, but with the prevelance of Skill Link this strategy still can lose. And don't forget that you also need Bruxish since Priority destroys this. Also, Moody is largely banned due to being able to give you Evasion.
excadrillThis meta looks fun! But isn't the team below a little unbeatable?
Like, how do you beat Fluffy + Unaware + Regen? It even has Flash Fire so the opponent can't take advantage of Fluffy! You'd be inclined to use a special attacker to break through this, right? But Is there any Special Attacker Chansey doesn't wall without set up?
I think something has to be done to address this kind of team, cuz' it genuinely seems broken, before you say anything about Corrosion, keep in mind Chansey has Natural Cure, but even then, Poison Heal would also be a great option here. Mold Breaker is restricted, so it's impossible to ignore Unaware and Magic Bounce.
I know that this is all theorymonning, but I can't think of any broken strategy that would let me beat this type of team...
um question motor drive and lightning rod seem to conflict with each other, with only motor drive kicking in when both should be. moxie and beast boost both work even with the same trigger so i dont see why lightning rod and motor drive shouldnt be the same way.
edit: i found after making this post that it is a 50/50 chance of one activating over the other which i still am wondering if that was intentional.
edit2: found the discord afterwards and reported it there as well so will just wait and see how it turns out.
edit: i found after making this post that it is a 50/50 chance of one activating over the other which i still am wondering if that was intentional.
edit2: found the discord afterwards and reported it there as well so will just wait and see how it turns out.
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Okay so...I know this is going to come across as complaining, whining, or anything you deem unprofessional...
...but I move to make a few bans on this meta.
Look, I know the whole goal of this meta is to essentially have a very chaotic meta with EXTREME applications, making or breaking your team basically by turn 2 in some cases. It's honestly insane how this meta goes from zero to 100 so fast.
But that being said, some things honestly have to be banned, and I don't think I'm alone on this opinion either.
1. Beast boost stacking.
I've run into this a couple of times and, combined with insane abilities like triage or moxie, or something of the like...essentially all a pokemon needs to do is KO the opponent just once and, having 2 pokemon with beast boost on their team, gets them 2 beast boost stat boosts. Intimidate is nerfed to only have one activation...why can beast boost activate twice? And the INSANE part about this is if the pokemon has equal stats. I saw an unfair combo where a guy used double beast boost on his galvantula, having same sp. attack and speed, and the beast boosts spread to both of the stats instead of just one. FOUR STAT BOOSTS!!! Simple fix...limit beast boost to one use, despite having two (or more) beast boost pokemon on the team.
2. Dragonite / Multi-scale.
Look, I like multi-scale just as much as the next guy but...for f*ck sakes, multi-scale on a pokemon like serperior and contrary guarantees chaos, it's obvious. Multi-scale is even easier to achieve if a pokemon with triage is on the team, guaranteeing that somebody like a mega gallade can always have his multi-scale active with a drain punch to get back to 100. Seriously...who though this was okay? If pokemon like Kyurem and all mold breaker pokemon cannot spread their abilities (yet still be usable, mind you), I vote that dragonite's ability in multi-scale be restricted.
3. Contrary...
I am up to HERE with f*cking contrary spamming teams. I can admit, I see the viable usage in contrary and I know why people want to use it...but you already have pokemon like victini (v-create), Kyurem (draco-meteor) and heck, let's face it...even the basic zangoose with a close combat, absolutely destroying teams. Seriously, this ability is beyond broken, spreading to pokemon that should not have it (again, emphasis more on victini's v-create, but I digress).
4. Iron Barbs / Rough Skin stacking.
...need I say more? I know these are more of the tame abilities in comparison to the other things I brought up in this list but...a simple physical hit on a pokemon with both of these abilities loses 24% instantly, losing 32% if the pokemon you just hit is using rocky helmet. Stall is okay, I know it's used and I use it as well...but there's absolutely no reason why it's fair to stack these abilities (along with an insanely broken item).
And finally...I just gotta say it...
5. Items.
I know this meta is not as serious or as toned as an actual event style game (i.e. the actual tournament level rules aren't usually applicable here), but there are some dastardly insane and broken strategies, given the ability sharing. I brought up in point number 4 that Iron Barbs and Rough Skin / Rocky helmet was a very broken combo...now imagine ALL 6 F*CKING POKEMON using rocky helmet. As mundane as that sounds (given the special pokemon who don't apply to this), there are no limits to the amount of items that a pokemon can use.
This, in turn, breaks the meta further because all 6 pokemon (depending on if they have a magic bounce pokemon) could have a focus sash and completely get away with it. All 6 pokemon could have scarf, with magic guard (ala Alakazam) and use insane moves like flare blitz, mind blown, double edge, and get away with absolutely wrecking your team. Hell, depending on if your team even has a way of countering this, all 6 pokemon could use prankster and starf berry / substitute / protect (and given that they would have a harvest pokemon, could restore the berry free of charge, and hell...cheek pouch restoring half the mon's HP upon eating said berry). Sadly, when it comes to the last strat, I know of it purely because my team was unequipped to deal with it. Aerodactyl lead with pressure to destroy your PP, sub and protect stall with starf berry, cheek pouch, harvest to gain it back purely based on rng. My team was 6-0d based on this one mon, alas.
That being said...despite my complaints, I do enjoy this meta. I am aware I am salty but these are legitimate complaints I'm bringing up, where the meta is completely unplayable without at least some fixes. Please, take these into consideration.
...but I move to make a few bans on this meta.
Look, I know the whole goal of this meta is to essentially have a very chaotic meta with EXTREME applications, making or breaking your team basically by turn 2 in some cases. It's honestly insane how this meta goes from zero to 100 so fast.
But that being said, some things honestly have to be banned, and I don't think I'm alone on this opinion either.
1. Beast boost stacking.
I've run into this a couple of times and, combined with insane abilities like triage or moxie, or something of the like...essentially all a pokemon needs to do is KO the opponent just once and, having 2 pokemon with beast boost on their team, gets them 2 beast boost stat boosts. Intimidate is nerfed to only have one activation...why can beast boost activate twice? And the INSANE part about this is if the pokemon has equal stats. I saw an unfair combo where a guy used double beast boost on his galvantula, having same sp. attack and speed, and the beast boosts spread to both of the stats instead of just one. FOUR STAT BOOSTS!!! Simple fix...limit beast boost to one use, despite having two (or more) beast boost pokemon on the team.
2. Dragonite / Multi-scale.
Look, I like multi-scale just as much as the next guy but...for f*ck sakes, multi-scale on a pokemon like serperior and contrary guarantees chaos, it's obvious. Multi-scale is even easier to achieve if a pokemon with triage is on the team, guaranteeing that somebody like a mega gallade can always have his multi-scale active with a drain punch to get back to 100. Seriously...who though this was okay? If pokemon like Kyurem and all mold breaker pokemon cannot spread their abilities (yet still be usable, mind you), I vote that dragonite's ability in multi-scale be restricted.
3. Contrary...
I am up to HERE with f*cking contrary spamming teams. I can admit, I see the viable usage in contrary and I know why people want to use it...but you already have pokemon like victini (v-create), Kyurem (draco-meteor) and heck, let's face it...even the basic zangoose with a close combat, absolutely destroying teams. Seriously, this ability is beyond broken, spreading to pokemon that should not have it (again, emphasis more on victini's v-create, but I digress).
4. Iron Barbs / Rough Skin stacking.
...need I say more? I know these are more of the tame abilities in comparison to the other things I brought up in this list but...a simple physical hit on a pokemon with both of these abilities loses 24% instantly, losing 32% if the pokemon you just hit is using rocky helmet. Stall is okay, I know it's used and I use it as well...but there's absolutely no reason why it's fair to stack these abilities (along with an insanely broken item).
And finally...I just gotta say it...
5. Items.
I know this meta is not as serious or as toned as an actual event style game (i.e. the actual tournament level rules aren't usually applicable here), but there are some dastardly insane and broken strategies, given the ability sharing. I brought up in point number 4 that Iron Barbs and Rough Skin / Rocky helmet was a very broken combo...now imagine ALL 6 F*CKING POKEMON using rocky helmet. As mundane as that sounds (given the special pokemon who don't apply to this), there are no limits to the amount of items that a pokemon can use.
This, in turn, breaks the meta further because all 6 pokemon (depending on if they have a magic bounce pokemon) could have a focus sash and completely get away with it. All 6 pokemon could have scarf, with magic guard (ala Alakazam) and use insane moves like flare blitz, mind blown, double edge, and get away with absolutely wrecking your team. Hell, depending on if your team even has a way of countering this, all 6 pokemon could use prankster and starf berry / substitute / protect (and given that they would have a harvest pokemon, could restore the berry free of charge, and hell...cheek pouch restoring half the mon's HP upon eating said berry). Sadly, when it comes to the last strat, I know of it purely because my team was unequipped to deal with it. Aerodactyl lead with pressure to destroy your PP, sub and protect stall with starf berry, cheek pouch, harvest to gain it back purely based on rng. My team was 6-0d based on this one mon, alas.
That being said...despite my complaints, I do enjoy this meta. I am aware I am salty but these are legitimate complaints I'm bringing up, where the meta is completely unplayable without at least some fixes. Please, take these into consideration.
Honorary #6 over here...
6. No f*cking struggle stalling.
This one should be obvious but I just found this one out, fighting a guy who has essentially gone undefeated. His team consisted of:
Snorlax: Immunity
Torkoal: Drought
Trevenant: Harvest
Muk: Sticky Hold
Dedenne: Cheek Pouch
Quagsire: Unaware
All 6 damn pokemon had sitrus berry
Look, I know stall exists in all metas, it's part of the f*cking job description. But that being said, my only chance against this guy was to stall myself. We fought for a 200 turn fight, upon 212, his PP ran out, I had just a few PP left on my Toxapex (just a few baneful bunkers and stockpiles). As he struggled...his f*cking cheek pouch literally restored his health faster than he was losing it, essentially meaning he got off 2 struggles absolutely free. If he wished, he could swap off for another struggling pokemon just to reset the drought to make harvest 100% accurate. Knock off is useless against sticky hold, setting up is impossible with unaware. He literally killed me with struggle.
This is unfair, you have to admit. Absolutely unfair.
1. Beast Boost does not stack. Want proof? Here:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-236727 Now, if on the main server this is glitched, please post a replay of it.
2. Multiscale has already been suggested for a ban. However, as of right now I don't believe there are any plans to ban it. There are many counters such as Skill Link, Mold Breaker, and just hitting hard. Or stall.
3. Contrary is not broken in anyway. Unaware beats it, Haze beats it, outspeeding beats it, etc.
4. Run Magic Guard.
5. Items don't share. Mind Blown Magic Guard exists and is powerful, but in no way unbeatable. If that wrecks your team then make a new team. I covered Starf Berry teams in a previous post, and there are counters.
And now for your second post.
6. Struggle stall is necessary. There are far worse struggle teams, and if that guy is actually running Immunity Snorlax with Sitrus Berries then I have to laugh. Or you're mistaken and he's running Gluttony+Aguav. If he switches you have an opportunity to kill him, so that strategy is totally unviable. Besides, that team doesn't even have Mguard, so hazards would wreck it. That is not broken in any way shape or form.
I don't know if you saw my previous post, but using this strategy I have laddered to the 9th spot on the ladder. My team did not use Dazzling but instead relied on pure physical bulk with unaware and constant healing to beat Skill Link, Triage, and Aerilate. https://pokepast.es/208e881c9f5e561f
Any difficult matchups usually came down to harvest luck, which is the definition of uncompetitive. Furthermore, none of the games I played with this team required substantial thought. I seriously think this strat should be banned.
Without Dazzling or Queenly Majesty I don't know how you didn't die to Priority. However, this is a legitimate strategy that could be looked at. I still do believe that it's not broken due to lack of team slots and counters, as well as the weakness of the mons used.
Yeah, Harvest + Pouch is kinda just a thing you have to keep an eye out for. If you're super worried about it, pack knock off. It may not work behind a substitute, but would at least save you in those situations where you're getting hit with Struggle and not making any progress. I'd support a starf berry ban but I think berry spam itself isn't a broken playstyle, just one that catches a lot of people off-guard since it's not as prepared for as more common archetypes. There's also the option of running Hyper Voice + Refrigerate KyuB, or just sound moves in general.
Alternatively, and since you brought up Aerodactyl; why aren't people talking about Aerodactyl more? Conventional wisdom is that Unnerve isn't worth using because it's dead weight against non berry teams, but Aero being able to mega-evolve to lend it's team Tough Claws in the event of a non-berry team is a big utility. It also outruns and gets super effective STAB coverage on M-Bee and Cloyster, meaning it has serious uses against Skill Link teams as well.
Alternatively, and since you brought up Aerodactyl; why aren't people talking about Aerodactyl more? Conventional wisdom is that Unnerve isn't worth using because it's dead weight against non berry teams, but Aero being able to mega-evolve to lend it's team Tough Claws in the event of a non-berry team is a big utility. It also outruns and gets super effective STAB coverage on M-Bee and Cloyster, meaning it has serious uses against Skill Link teams as well.
Pangoro and Conkeldurr lose easily to Trevenant without Scrappy. With Scrappy, which is rare, Swalot 1v1s them easily as well. By the time Knock Off is relevant, Kyurem would have so many boosts I don't see how it wouldn't auto win. I have detailed in an earlier post how this team usually beats most teams including priority teams.
1. I cannot post a replay of something I already left, I decided to make this post far after the fact as this happened yesterday.
2. Skill link does not fix this, mold breaker is far from the solution as not many people run mold breaker (due to the fact it does not spread). Stall is risky as set up from a multi-scale (anything with this ability) is inevitable.
3. Contrary is extremely broken, only one ability countering it being unaware does not fix anything. Outspeeding does not matter versus priority, dazzling running everywhere.
4. Not an option on some teams.
5. There are no damn counters to item spam.
6. Struggle stall is not necessary, it's over powered. All 6 pokemon ran sitrus berry. I could be mistaken about immunity (I did not run toxic on this one team, my bad, I'll admit). Setting up with spikes or rocks is not worth it due to magic guard users everywhere, meaning running it is purely for this one team (which you cannot account for when you click to fight on random).
There are zero teams that offer 100% coverage and most teams struggle to get a good 50/50 going in, this meta is already chaotic. Making nerfs at the very least gives the chance for equal chances going in. I am going to defend that these are points that have to be addressed.
You might have the second beast boost mixed up with soul heart/moxie. Its possible for someone to run an ultra beast, a magearna, and a salamence/gyarados/heracross/etc. and get half a shell smash per KO if they beast boost speed. Is this what you're referring to?
IIRC you cannot Knock the Item off, if the user has Sticky Hold (at least it didn't work for me).
My problem came from the fact that the guy had sticky hold, so knock off didn't work. He essentially got away with pretty much anything he wanted to do. I'll admit I should have had hazards, but too many magic bounce pokemon run around to even warrant stealth rocks, toxic, spikes, anything.
No, two beast boost pokemon were ran on this guy's team, and the chat explicitely stated two beast boost stat increases.
So two ultra beasts can give the same effect as one + a magearna? If that's the case, maybe try testing a team with two UBs yourself then get a replay from that, if you don't already have one - especially if that's a bug exclusive to the main server.
one unaware cloyster 6 0 this team
I laddered to number 9 on the ladder with this strategy and beat many unaware cloysters. Physdef Klefki can eat several hits through berry recovery and 2hko cloyster. Kyub lives one rock blast from full and can kill back through sturdy. Prankster Thunder Wave or Destiny Bond can cripple or remove it.
+1 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 105-125 (33.2 - 39.5%) -- approx. 10.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Found an issue with gale wings + aerilate. It works for pinsir, but won’t work for dragonite or aerodactyl. It applies the type effectiveness correctly (super effective against fighting types for example) however it doesn’t snag the priority it should from gale wings
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-699792010
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-699792010
As has been pointed out a few times, Gale Wings gets checked before Aerilate so it doesn’t recognize Normal moves as Flying. This is intentional/accurate to the cart.
This has been addressed several times before, Gale Wings checks before Aerilate, so it only works for Originally Flying Moves.
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