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Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake
Golisopod @ Life Orb
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- First Impression
- Aqua Jet
Excadrill @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
Dragalge @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Scald
Manectric-Mega @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
While there is definitely room to improve (especially over drill and dragalge) the premise of the team is regenerator emergency exit spam which sounds terrible on paper, but is very fun in practice. My favorite part is that Blacephalon's Mind blown in conjunction with the regen exit essentially makes it part of a volt turn core and can guarantee it won't get revenge killed by a pursuit trapper while functioning as a revenge killer itself. Double-switching (especially with rocks up) can help you generate HP for free so most of the time, your pokemon will be at 60-80% HP allowing for some class-A bullshit tom-fuckery.
also this happened while I was playing: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-698388670 one turns 19 and 23, when excadrill was below half, emergency exit didn't allow for the typical double-switch for some reason. If this is a bug or something intentional please let me know or fix it.
moves affected by sheer force dont activate emergency exit. im assuming toucannon had sheer force on the first battle. it sounds weird on paper, but sheer force negates all secondary effects from the move, so even stuff like life orb recoil, and kings rock is blocked. so im guessing emergency exit's effect is considered secondary and turns the opponents said move into a circle throw clone. its very, very technical.
Hi!
First, I'd like to thank Haaku for such an interesting and crazy metagame.
Secondly, I'd like to bring up Dazzling/Queenly Majesty as abilities that should not be shared. When you think about speedboosting abilities on offense - Unburden, Defiant+Weak Armor+Endure, Quick Feet - you see that the only way they can function so well is with a Bruxish or Tsareena on the team. That Haxorus at +6 +6 is unrevengeable. How nice would it be to nick that last bit of HP off? Too bad there's no way to do that with the presence of these two Pokémon, unless you're using Mold Breaker Pinsir with Quick Attack :)
I think priority moves are in the metagame for a reason, and are a healthy way to ensure that even a runaway sweeper can be checked if you're careful. Nearly all offensive teams are running one of these two priority blockers, and it's very limiting. Look to STABmons as an example of leaving strong priority in a metagame for good reason, and that meta's banning of Tapu Lele (albeit for its power alongside it's ability to stop priority abusers) says a lot, in my opinion.
Hi!
First, I'd like to thank Haaku for such an interesting and crazy metagame.
Secondly, I'd like to bring up Dazzling/Queenly Majesty as abilities that should not be shared. When you think about speedboosting abilities on offense - Unburden, Defiant+Weak Armor+Endure, Quick Feet - you see that the only way they can function so well is with a Bruxish or Tsareena on the team. That Haxorus at +6 +6 is unrevengeable. How nice would it be to nick that last bit of HP off? Too bad there's no way to do that with the presence of these two Pokémon, unless you're using Mold Breaker Pinsir with Quick Attack :)
I think priority moves are in the metagame for a reason, and are a healthy way to ensure that even a runaway sweeper can be checked if you're careful. Nearly all offensive teams are running one of these two priority blockers, and it's very limiting. Look to STABmons as an example of leaving strong priority in a metagame for good reason, and that meta's banning of Tapu Lele (albeit for its power alongside it's ability to stop priority abusers) says a lot, in my opinion.
Yes but no. Except you wanna see PixiSpeed everywhere like in M&M or Reckless Gale Wings Magic Guard Staraptor clicks A to win, I think a meta with priorities everywhere is just more unhealthy than the one we have now.
And anyway, the abilities which stops priorities aren't broken. To get Dazzling or Queenly Majesty, you have to bring one really bad Pokemon who is just unless to fight the opponent. Quick feet has to sacrifie one important place to get Dazzling (Toxic Heal/Toxic Boost/Guts/Quick Feet/Marvel Scale/Adaptability/Multiscale/...) and doesn't carry it often. Even without using it, Quick feet is as strong as always.
The issue with these ability is the speed boost (Unburden/Weak Armor/Quick Feet/...), it's that which makes teams broken, it's not because they carry sometimes a way to handle priorities. You see, if I can make a metaphor, it would be like in OU to decide to suspect Tapu Koko/Tapu Lele because unburden Hawlucha would be too difficult to revenge kill with the seed activated. We can do that to nerf Hawlucha but we just get around the problem. Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele in themselves are just a way to implement the strategy in this scenario, not the real issue. Here, I use Pokemon but the logic is the same with abilities.
In the same way, if we have to suspect something, it will be Unburden/Weak Armor/Quick feet because they are the main issue. Quick feet Queenly Majesty isn't more broken than Quick feet Multiscale. You said Haxorus at +6 Atk +6 Spe Dazzling is difficult to revenge kill, I'm agree with you but Haxorus at +6 doesn't born like that on the ground. And even if yes, the question will be "how does it get +6 Atk +6 Spe ? Thanks to Weak Armor Defiant", Haxorus Dazzling without WAD isn't broken. Haxorus WAD without Dazzling stays difficult to deal with. Queenly Majesty/Dazzling are definitely not the problem but speed boosting abilities are it.
I want to bring up the problem with battles between two stall teams.
This meta allows stall teams to run combinations of Multiscale, Regenerator, Poison Heal, Magic Guard etc. on each one of their six mons. This not only makes each mon immune to status and entry hazards, to actually do damage you need to outdamage Regen's healing, which is quite difficult especially for stall mons which usually aren't that strong in terms of offenses, when you take into account that damage-reducing abilities can be combined with it, such as Multiscale, Marvel Scale, Unaware and others.
This battle: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-698424994 is a pretty good example. Both players had stall teams with Regenerator, Multiscale and some kind of hazards/status immunity, and as both players were unable to outdamage Regenerator, it was a tie. Due to both teams having Unaware and (P)Haze, calm-minding up with clefable to break through with Stored Power wasn't an option as well.
The real problem here is that Showdown doesn't have a "offer draw" (or similar) option. You either have to play the whole 1000 turns until the auto-tie kicks in, or both players have to time out simultaneously - which is not well known and can be cheated easily by clicking a move just before the timer runs out. In the battle I linked here, the tie was obvious after just about 100 to 150 turns, but we still had to play more than 600 turns until someone in the help chat explained the method of timing out simultaneously - really annoying and a waste of time...
Something really has to be done here, as ties in stall vs stall matchups are almost guaranteed, but what? The best thing would be implementing an offer draw option, but I doubt that will come...
id say magic guard + sturdy is also a huge issue as Kyurem B and skill link teams are the only way offence can really beat it. Banning magic guard from passing seems to be the best solution.
For you who's pro-Magic Guard ban, what would be different if Magic Guard isn't shareable but Magic Bounce is? Assuming Innards out follows (would be dumb if it doesn't), I don't see any different. Maybe Moldy SR Exca is actually useful?
For you who's pro-Magic Guard ban, what would be different if Magic Guard isn't shareable but Magic Bounce is? Assuming Innards out follows (would be dumb if it doesn't), I don't see any different. Maybe Moldy SR Exca is actually useful?
Without Magic Guard, running Rock Head would be a must in some teams, and you'd still lose HP due to Life Orb recoil, unless you also run Sheer Force, and that doesn't cover all attacks. Furthermore, Rough Skin+Iron Barbs team would be ugly to deal with.
So,i'm not really good at competitive pokemon,but shouldn't aerilate + gale wings work together as a multi-ability ?
It didn't seem to work when I used it,so is it a glitch ?
So,i'm not really good at competitive pokemon,but shouldn't aerilate + gale wings work together as a multi-ability ?
It didn't seem to work when I used it,so is it a glitch ?
The coding for Gale Wings works when it's only a normal Flying type move. Moves that are not Flying type normally never gain priority, sadly. This is simply the way it's coded.
I'm just going to say - Sturdy + Magic Guard takes 0 skill and can be countered by almost nothing. I think just ban magic guard so nobody will be this broken. With sturdy, you can break sashes, and Magic Bounce + Sturdy will be annoying AF, but this needs to be taken care of ASAP. I can think of almost 0 counters to this playstyle, and it needs a ban effectively immediately.
Weavile @ King's Rock
Ability: Pressure+Serene Grace+Adaptability+Technician+Sturdy+DQM
-Beat up
Up to 200+BP BEFORE STAB with 74% chance to flinch plus breaks sash variants. Once those poison related abilities are banned not much outspeeds it either.
I'm just going to say - Sturdy + Magic Guard takes 0 skill and can be countered by almost nothing. I think just ban magic guard so nobody will be this broken. With sturdy, you can break sashes, and Magic Bounce + Sturdy will be annoying AF, but this needs to be taken care of ASAP. I can think of almost 0 counters to this playstyle, and it needs a ban effectively immediately.
For you who's pro-Magic Guard ban, what would be different if Magic Guard isn't shareable but Magic Bounce is? Assuming Innards out follows (would be dumb if it doesn't), I don't see any different. Maybe Moldy SR Exca is actually useful?
I'm just going to say - Sturdy + Magic Guard takes 0 skill and can be countered by almost nothing. I think just ban magic guard so nobody will be this broken. With sturdy, you can break sashes, and Magic Bounce + Sturdy will be annoying AF, but this needs to be taken care of ASAP. I can think of almost 0 counters to this playstyle, and it needs a ban effectively immediately.
Here are what I see as the most common archetypes:
Stall
Just plain old pp stall. Sometimes it involves switching and sometimes it just involves Prankster recovery.
What it needs: Multiscale, Magic Bounce/Magic Guard, Regenerator
What can help it: Stamina, Prankster, Poison Heal, Marvel Scale, Pressure, Misty Surge (counters Guts), Prism Armor, Innards Out, Unaware
What it beats: All setup teams, Multihit (guaranteed if Stall has Stamina, can vary if not), Unburden, Guts (depends on teams though), Contrary (usually)
What it loses to: Hard Hitting HO, Setup Mold Breakers
Unburden
These teams can use 1 Terrain seed mon, or run things such as White Herb Sturdy Cloyster for sweeping. Unburden isn't really an archetype, but instead something included for outspeeding other HO.
What it needs: Unburden, Psychic Surge/Queenly Majesty/Dazzling
What can help it: Sturdy, Contrary+Download+Unburden (courtesy of superstar64), Endure, Guts, Technician, Skill Link, etc
What it beats: Hard Hitting HO, anything slower: Guts, Contrary, etc
What it loses to: Stall, Multihit (sometimes), Pangoro Triage, being outsped
Guts
These teams rely on using some combination of Guts, Toxic Boost, Poison Heal, Quick Feet, and Marvel Scale to hit extremely hard. However, without Unburden they are too slow to beat opposing Unburden Teams, and with Unburden they often do not hit hard enough to beat Stall.
What it needs: Guts/Toxic Boost, Poison Heal/Magic Guard
What can help it: Sturdy, Multiscale, Contrary, Quick Feet, Marvel Scale, Hustle, No Guard, Tough Claws, Adaptability, Refrigerate, Kyurem-Black, Dazzling
What it beats: Stall (sometimes), slower teams, balance teams, opposing Guts, Hard Hitting HO (if it's slower)
What it loses to: Weak Armor Defiant, Stall (sometimes), Unburden, Skill Link, Misty Surge
Triage
These teams rely on the +3 priority that Triage can provide. I had discounted them, but they do extremely well against the team I've been using. I expected them to lose to Bruxish, but Pangoro can actually trash those teams. However, once Pangoro dies, these teams lose to Bruxish. So they're extremely unreliable but can be a complete nuisance.
What it needs: Triage
What can help it: Pangoro, Buzzwole, Conkeldurr, Damage Modifiers (Guts, Toxic Boost, Tough Claws, Adaptability, Hustle, etc)
What it beats: Unburden teams that lose to Pangoro, Teams without Bruxish/Lele/Tsareena
What it loses to: Bruxish/Tsareena (if Pangoro dies), Tapu Lele, Stall (Pangoro can beat stall)
Hard Hitting HO
These teams have been less popular due to the fact that they always lose to Unburden. Since they're slower they need priority to compete with other HO, but priority just loses to Bruxish, which is used on almost all teams. Guts is a type of hard hitting HO, but it's slightly faster than the type of team I'm describing while at the same time hitting harder.
What it needs: Every type is different, but it needs to use some of Tough Claws, Adaptability, Hustle+No Guard, etc
What can help it: Magic Guard, Reckless, Gale Wings, Bruxish, Sturdy, Multiscale
What it beats: Stall, Balanced Teams, Teams without Bruxish
What it loses to: Unburden, Guts, Skill Link
Defiant Weak Armor
These teams are somehow actually good. With Endure they can beat almost everything except for Stall. In a metagame where physical offense is the most common, being able to get a free shell smash every time you get hit is extremely good. Endure makes these teams automatically beat Skill Link, and since so many Pokémon get the move each member benefits.
What it needs: Defiant, Weak Armor, Bruxish
What can help it: Stamina, Competitive, Unburden, Skill Link, Damage Modifiers
What it beats: Honestly, all physical teams without Unaware
What it loses to: Stall, Unaware, Special Attackers, Pangoro sometimes
Contrary
There honestly aren't enough Pokémon that are absolutely brilliant with this ability, so it's usually used in combination with another strategy. These teams also have trouble with speed. While Contrary looks broken on paper, in practice it's actually fairly weak. Shuckle is the best contrary carrier, allowing you to click webs against any team that doesn't have Contrary or Levitate.
What it needs: Contrary
What can help it: Guts, Toxic Boost, Quick Feet, Poison Heal, Victini, Unburden
What it beats: Balance, slower teams
What it loses to: Multiscale, Unaware, Unburden, Skill Link, Stall, Guts
Skill Link
Skill link teams are good because they can bypass Multiscale and Sturdy. Initially they were considered a good counter to Stall, but Stall now runs Stamina to counter them. They suffer from the same problem as Hard Hitting HO; they can't hit hard enough to break stall if they have enough speed to beat other HO.
What it needs: Skill Link, Technician
What can help it: Unburden, Guts, Beast Boost, Moxie, Sturdy, Dazzling, etc
What it beats: Some Stall, Multiscale, Sturdy. All matchups really vary on what other abilities are used
These are just the teams I've been seeing. There are several other strategies I have previously covered in my older guide.
Now, if you're new to the metagame you might have trouble identifying what your opponent is using. Here are some tips:
Victini: They are running Contrary
Shuckle: This can use all 3 abilities, but it usually runs Contrary.
Accelgor, Hawlucha, Sceptile, Slurpuff: Unburden
Bruxish, Lele, Tsareena: Don't use priority moves unless you have Mold Breaker (vs Bruxish and Tsareena) or opposing terrain (vs Lele)
Anything with Sturdy except for Zone and Golem-A, or if they have Defiant and the Sturdy user also gets Weak Armor: They have Sturdy
Zangoose, Ursaring: Guts team
Gliscor: Definitely a Poison Heal team, but it can be Guts or Stall
Cloyster: Multihit
Ambipom: Skill Link Tech or they watch too much aim
Cincinno, Cloyster, etc: Skill Link Tech
Bisharp+Weak Armor mon: Weak Armor Defiant
You get the idea. The important things are the immunity mons (mostly Bruxish). Anyway, hope this was helpful! I'll try to add some sample teams to this post.
Also, for those of you who say Bruxish and Tsareena should be banned, imagine Talonflame without them.
Staraptor @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Double-Edge
- Close Combat
- U-turn
Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Me First
Machamp @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
Durant @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- X-Scissor
Lycanroc-Dusk @ Focus Sash
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Accelerock
- Endeavor
- Drill Run
Wording Level 1000 Weedle. Banning Dazzling/Queenly Majesty will turn the meta into yet another EspeedAte with a bit of Terrain wars to spice it up. Also, banning Magic Guard will also limit offense significantly due to recoil and status damage while improving Stall strategies such as Rough Skin+Iron Barb. As much as Sturdy+Magic Guard is honestly rather rage-inducing, I'd rather see Sturdy gone.
