1/6. Combined with Leech Seed damage, they'll usually go down before Wrap would wear off.
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Pokémon Serperior
- Thread starter Mozilla Fennekin
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Think Giga Drain, Leaf Storm, Dragon Pulse, and HP Rock (since it covers all its weaknesses) are more suited to its ability. Once its checks are out, it can sweep with giga drain for added insult to injury.
Also slap on a focus sash for pesky talonflames.
But since it is only available in data mining but no actual cartridge use, only a gasp *hacked* Serperior can know contrary. One could argue it is legal due to it technically having the capacity to learn it.
Also slap on a focus sash for pesky talonflames.
But since it is only available in data mining but no actual cartridge use, only a gasp *hacked* Serperior can know contrary. One could argue it is legal due to it technically having the capacity to learn it.
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HP Rock and a Sash can deal with Talonflame, I guess, but a set like this would get walled by Steel-types and other Grass-types might be able to take him out if they have HP Fire. HP Fire would seem to give better coverage, only being totally walled by Heatran.
It's in Pokebank OU, so we might as well get started.
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Well of a grass types 5 weaknesses, HP rock covers 4 of them. With contrary, even a dragon pulse can deal with the odd chance of a grass pokemon with HP fire. Nobody said Serperior is a one man army, so as long as the opponents team is lacking a Heatran or its KO'd, Serperior can function just fine given a Leaf Storm....or two.
the Serperior seeder
Contrary
-Sub
-Leech Seed
-Leaf BWAH
-HP rock/dragon pulse(#Draco-Serperior)
Contrary
-Sub
-Leech Seed
-Leaf BWAH
-HP rock/dragon pulse(#Draco-Serperior)
But the thing is serperior with hp rock cannot do much to so many things it baits in, like genesect. Sure, its neutral coverage with hp rock is great, but hp rock isn't exactly that powerful even at +2. Meanwhile, hp fire will be knocking out all the forretress, ferrothorn, skarmory, scizor, and genesect that try to come in on you and set up, which is much, much more valuable.
I personally use HP Ground on this, after a Leaf Storm boost, LO and Stealth rocks up, it should deal a massive amount of damage to Heatran, don't have a calculator that allows me to set the HP to 60, but with the 70 BP and rocks up it deals 112,43% MINIMUM to the specially bulkiest of Heatran at +2, which you can get even if you used Leaf Storm on the switch. So I assume that maybe with a layer of spikes down as well, it should still OHKO (maybe without em too, cn anyone test this?)
That's true, I was being unfair. You were just saying your idea, and I attacked you. :( Sorry.
Not to mention that Skarmory can wipe his boosts clean with Whirlwind and both Genesect and Scizor can OHKO him with STAB U-Turn or Bug Bite.
For most of those pokes it would be more tactical to just switch out then face them head on. Can always build up leaf storm stats again. And HP fire can be easily taught to someone else. But hey, to each their own.
Serperior is faster than skarmory and a +2 hp fire (sturdy will be broken from leaf storm on the switch-in) will always OHKO. If they bring it in after a death, if they brave bird they'll die to recoil because hp fire will have brought it down to sturdy and if they whirlwind then something else can ko, not to mentio your serperior itself is still safe. Scizor cannot outspeed serperior and dies to hp fire, even if its mega, from +2. Most people will think that they are safe and u-turn anyway, so you don't have to worry about bullet punch as much. I've found it common that genesect try to come in and steal your momentum with u-turn, so its easy to predict the switch in and OHKO with an unboosted hp fire as well.
Serperior is really a big threat now with its Leaf Storm that instantly set him up and its great speed. The biggest issue being... that leaf storm is 90 accuracy and if you miss the first one you are pretty much dead, it might sound silly but I'm relunctant to play him just because of that. I sure won many games with him but everytime I miss a leaf storm I lose a lot of momentum. I play max speed (timid) and max sp.Atk with Leaf Storm, Dragon Pulse, Glare and HP Rock with a focus sash.
With no entry hazard on the field and one or two leaf storm, it will be really hard for your opponent.
I hate relying on "luck" so I don't play him anymore, but I even consider playing him with an item that increase accuracy...
With no entry hazard on the field and one or two leaf storm, it will be really hard for your opponent.
I hate relying on "luck" so I don't play him anymore, but I even consider playing him with an item that increase accuracy...
I know, I was merely agreeing why HP Fire is largely better with the worst case scenarios. c:
Does it also mean that for example Sheer Force Feraligatr is open to use as well (and this is something I always wanted to try in 'normal' metagame) ? I was so sure that it's not possible to use that I didn't even try to use him. Because I still find this really strange that PokeBank allows to use Contrary Serperior in PokeBank metagame, which simulates situation where you have transfered Pokemon from previous generations. And it's hard to do in case of Pokemon which never existed to begin with.
Anyway on topic - while Contrary is really cool with Leaf Storm, nerf to power of this move + really heavy grass resists + poor coverage of Serperior means that he's really easy to stop once you know what kind of Hidden Power he uses. Also in a metagame where really strong priority moves are flying everywhere, his good speed suddenly looks much less relevant.
And I don't think accuracy is that big of a problem - 90% is solid enough to use. Yeah, you miss one attack out of 10 (when it goes to percentages), but those aren't really bad odds. If many people use Fire Blast, which has 5% less accuracy, and call it reliable enough, I don't see why 90% would be bad enough to not use it.
EDIT: Checked Sheer Force Feraligatr and it's indeed legal on Pokebank OU as well.
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It was seen in the Battle Maison. It's not actually out yet but we at least know it's not gone forever like Shadow Tag Chandelure and still might see the light of day soon.
I was under the impression that even if we know something exists, we wouldn't release it until it's made available (see soul dew BW, ST chandy and th likes)
And we haven't. You still can't use Contrary Serperior on Showdown, doesn't stop people from theorymonning though.
I just found out that Serp retains his Contrary ability, and I'm very excited for that (He's my favorite mon as well). Though hopefully, Dragon Pulse is made available by some means, because losing that really hurts. From what I've played on Showdown, aside from talonflame, who is pretty much a hard counter aside from running Focus Sash and HP rock (which isn't the best setup anyway), he also has problems with Greninja barring a scarf or sticky web, as the frog outspeeds and OHKOs with stab Ice Beam.
There's always the possibility that he might get a stat boost though. He'd certainly welcome a +10 to speed or special attack.
Also, sweet mother of Primus, that Zapdos nerf SUUUUUCKS.
There's always the possibility that he might get a stat boost though. He'd certainly welcome a +10 to speed or special attack.
Also, sweet mother of Primus, that Zapdos nerf SUUUUUCKS.
My favorite Serp set was the Leaf Storm, Giga Drain, Substitute, coverage move with Life Orb. When I played Serp, the first thing people would try to do is paralyze it. Being behind a Sub makes it much more dangerous. Giga Drain is crucial for a few reasons. The first is HP recovery; LO recoil, Subs, and entry hazards really add up, and an unexpected Giga Drain can replentish Serp to the point where he can switch out and have another poke at the opposing team later.
The second reason is that Leaf Storm only has 8 PP. If Serp is switching in and out and attempting to wallbreak or pick off opponents, Leaf Storm becomes somewhat redundant once Serp reaches +6. Giga Drain is an excellent backup move.
As for coverage, I'd LOVE Dark Pulse. It's neutral on Steel-types now, scores a super effective hit on Trevenant, and has that awesome flinch chance. Does anything wall Grass/Dark?
The second reason is that Leaf Storm only has 8 PP. If Serp is switching in and out and attempting to wallbreak or pick off opponents, Leaf Storm becomes somewhat redundant once Serp reaches +6. Giga Drain is an excellent backup move.
As for coverage, I'd LOVE Dark Pulse. It's neutral on Steel-types now, scores a super effective hit on Trevenant, and has that awesome flinch chance. Does anything wall Grass/Dark?
If you're looking for things that wall Grass/Dark, off the top of my head:
Hydreigon, Shiftry, Houndoom, Honchkrow, Drapion, Breloom, Blaziken, Infernape, Hawlucha, Heracross. There's probably a bit more but too tired to think lol.
Honestly, I'd rather have Dragon coverage... but with Dragon Pulse's nerf, I dunno if even that's good.
I haven't given up on my favorite starter, though. Perhaps with some new Egg moves and perhaps a Mega in the future, the royal grass snake will rise to greatness. Or at least above RU.
When this becomes widespread, he's at least getting quick banned from NU, so that's a start. With the tutor moves he had in B2, it feels like he's heading in a Grass/Dragon direction; which while godawful defensively, at least has some merit offensively, and especially with an ability like Contrary.
The issue I've been having lately is what hidden power to run. He basically has to choose if he wants to take out Scizor (and now Genesect), Heatran, or go for the all around rock coverage and take pot shots at Talonflame from behind a sub. As much as I like to do all out attacking sets, it seems like he might really need Sub support this gen.
The issue I've been having lately is what hidden power to run. He basically has to choose if he wants to take out Scizor (and now Genesect), Heatran, or go for the all around rock coverage and take pot shots at Talonflame from behind a sub. As much as I like to do all out attacking sets, it seems like he might really need Sub support this gen.
It's not getting quickbanned from NU because BW is over, and it didn't receive Contrary or anything else of note in BW. If it gets released with Contrary, it very well might not fall to NU this gen, but there's no way of telling until that happens.
Even with Contrary Leaf Storm, Serperior is still pretty underwhelming in Pokebank OU at least. Too many things can easily revenge kill it because of its weakness to common priority (Ice Shard, Talonflame's Brave Bird, Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack to name a few), and while it is fast, any common Choice Scarf user can usually dispatch it because its defenses are a lot less profound with offensive EV investment. If you choose to run something like a defensive Sub Leaf Storm set, it lacks a lot of power. Sub Leech Seed seems to be the best option, as it doesn't really mind losing out on its boosts and coming back in later. At the very least, if it Leech Seeds a check, that check is being worn down so that it can come back in later and hope to sweep.
Even with Contrary Leaf Storm, Serperior is still pretty underwhelming in Pokebank OU at least. Too many things can easily revenge kill it because of its weakness to common priority (Ice Shard, Talonflame's Brave Bird, Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack to name a few), and while it is fast, any common Choice Scarf user can usually dispatch it because its defenses are a lot less profound with offensive EV investment. If you choose to run something like a defensive Sub Leaf Storm set, it lacks a lot of power. Sub Leech Seed seems to be the best option, as it doesn't really mind losing out on its boosts and coming back in later. At the very least, if it Leech Seeds a check, that check is being worn down so that it can come back in later and hope to sweep.
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